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On February 26 2014 08:45 p14c wrote:
Why do Protoss need early scouting when Nexus cannon crushes any early aggression? For mid and late game they have tons of options for scouting: observers, oracles, hallucinations etc...I think these changes are quite irrelevant. I would be surprised if PvT changes too much. Widow Mines are gimmicky units that work only against non-ranged units. Once spotted they are useless.
It does not. There are a few stim timings / marine tank raven / other things that simply relying on Photon Overcharge is not enough to stop. We need to know that it's coming and add some units. Stim bio kills a Nexus pretty fast if there aren't many other units.
Also, it's not just aggression. Protoss needs to scout if Terran is playing greedy.
Every race needs to scout.
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On February 26 2014 05:49 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 05:42 chillaful wrote:
@ KrazyTrumpet
i dont know in which universe protoss was for u a struggling and inconsistent race lol. the msc only makes PvP less coinflip, thats it. You might want to rewatch some WoL games. Protoss needs MSC defensive abilities for stability and not just in PvP. The only thing silly about MSC is that it is a superb offensive tool and a defensive tool at the same time.
well pretty easy answer to this: it needs a sort of short ranged wireless connection to a nexus to work... or in other words: it needs to be somehow forced to stay at "home" to work and it doesn't work in the offense. Pretty easy to implement
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On February 26 2014 06:11 muzzy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 05:34 chillaful wrote:
jesus Blizzard when do u finally understand that the msc completly destroyed hots, if u want to minimize the damage the games took, u must at least remove the ability of the msc to attack ground units and u have to think about nerfing the nexuscanon, not only the duration but also the range. im really holding back my thoughts about the blizzard-sc2 balance employee and i say that VERY nicely!
the widowmine change can at least make the mid-lategame more interesting but the nerf of the msc-vision is by far not enough. the reason why bs-allins are imba are not rly the maps its just the msc, in wol it was much more possible to deal with bs allins. all abilities of early agression from terran like proxy marodeur rushes, marodeur helion pushes, 2 rax etc. are not possible anymore. In Wol, without the msc terran hat at least 10 effective openings, but because of the msc now we have 3 (reaper expand into 3 rax, cc first, and reaper expand into widowmine).
a joke! Oh, I see,it's OK as long as the Terran is the one with 10 different openings. If it's a Protoss, it's not fair and must be nerfed. Come on, buddy, get real. Wings of Terran era ended a long time ago and isn't coming back. it actually endet in the middle of WoL when it was figured out that all these openings are easily countered and Terran has no real lategame. Or what do you think, why was it more a Wings of PvZ or more clearly "will the archon toilet catch the GGlords and Winfestors?" T were really struggling in the 2nd half of the WoL era, the cheesy T openings (Bunkerrush, proxy rax, banshee opening) got nerfed ( see bunker build time change in the current patch) or got figured out how to defend it.
Terran still has these openings, HOTS didnt take options away, but none of them is viable anymore or at least not considered a real threat.
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On February 26 2014 06:23 sandman1678 wrote:
2. Oracles which were already becoming pretty useless in PvT will now be completely useless and no longer even a backstab threat since 1 widowmine in a probe line will completely shut this down.
OMG please don't tell me you are serious. Oracle is FASTER then any terran unit and its acceleration and movement is also so quick, that if you don't do damage with an oracle opening you are just being a bad player. Learn to get it in and out without taking damage. You don't have to kill every scv with your first swipe, you can reload shilds etc.
I have almost NEVER seen oracle NOT doing damage, so it is really you, who makes this unit useless.
On February 26 2014 06:23 sandman1678 wrote:
3. Warp prism harrass will become completely useless since a widow mine and some rallied back rax units will completel shut this down. aha, if we have units exactly on the right spot it makes harassement useless. what a surprise. you sire are again failing at argumenting. These things shouldnt win the game on their own, these are TOOLS and it is up to you how good you use them.
Same argument could be turned into terrans favor: Drops are useless, within one second Imbatoss can always warp in 10 chargelots and kill the drop. Or feedback. Or blink under the medivacs. Or place cannons. or....
Plus: toss has cheap permanent, cloaked observers, terrans dont have them, so its easier to fly in with a (very fast) prism then with a medivac, drop, kill something, and get out of there alive.
Also don't forget about HT Storm drops: easy to pull of, doing TONS of damage, could get out of there again just as easy.
BTW: Every toss I've seen so far that did Prism drops and did parallel damage on another part of the T bases so Terran had to split up, did way more damage than he took, getting more and more ahead. If you lose the prism to some Terran that keeps big parts of the army in the base throughout all game, you failed on abusing the fact that he didn't have his whole army together...
Your WM statement is also stupid, cause WM was stronger before and it didnt kill toss that was prepared for it (so you maybe need to adapt and learn how to not be completely safe in the first 10 minutes, which was a bad design error and not actually fair anyways.
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On February 26 2014 08:46 Rollora wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 04:50 DifuntO wrote:
All these are good changes. Now if only they can find a way to make Swarm Host PvZ fun to watch... Remove them  And Oracles And WM Buff Tanks instead so we have epic BW Like TvZ action again.
That way zerg gets to lose every single turtle mech and air toss game!
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Also, muta regen just needs to be nerfed it's ridiculous that it hasn't been yet.
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Still was not sure if I will main Terran or Zerg... but that Hydra Buff is making the choice a lot easier. I always loved Hydras
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On February 26 2014 06:46 Paljas wrote:
mmh, i hoped for a oracle nerf
still, looks like a good patch
NERF?
You gotta be kiddin'
Oracle was already very strong before the last buff, especially for players who could actually manage to micro ONE unit.
nerf? The're gonna make it even faster and making it accelerate even more
And bunkert build times change...
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On February 26 2014 07:01 saintforsale wrote:
All balance whine aside how do you open solidly as toss now?
Temps which seemed to be the only thing preventing a 2 base allin (+workers) seem throughly nerfed.
Colossus every game just like wings?
What about PvZ, seems that all aggressive options are countered by hydra now.
No whine just honestly courious.
how does the patch change 2 base templar opening? Learn to scout with drones again or observer (currently it feels some protoss "forgot" how to do that, as it wasn't needed), leave the MSC at home. It is a defensive unit. They should also remove recall so it isn't that useful in offensive maneuvres anymore.
Being less greedy could also bei an option (going from 1 base and harassement into 2 base and then later)
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I'm so tired of the Terrans complaining about not being able to attack early on;
1. 8-10 Min timing attacks are still effective you just need to have a strategy that is more than amove stutter step.
A. move out sooner and bait out a overcharge a min or so before you planned on attacking
B. bait out an over charge at their natural then boost into the main
C. If they don't have enough units their defend fight throught the overcharge and go up into the main it only does as much damage as a photon cannon.
D. Drop harrass is still effective and NOT shutdown by an over charge. Remember how you got their.....Yeah the medi vac is flies it can also flie away from the over charge to the nexus without one.
E. Stop acting like the nexus suddenly turned into zues and started hurling lighting bolts at you its just a photon cannon with larger range. If they only have a few units you can still crush their units and run into the main taking very little damage or hell you can even wipe out a probe line before the nexus cannon cleans you up which is a good trade.
2. Stop auto attacking everything focus fire down their units and then move up into the main and focus down pylons and techs.
3. Stop thinking big straight forward push alot times 1 medivac flying around dropping hear, picking up and droping somewhere else will distract and put a player so far on tilt they start messing up giving you an advantage. Furthermore, while your 1 medi is their be annoying you can macro back at home fine. The key is to know when to stop doing drop harass alot of terrans will build themselves a good lead then blow it by sacrificing macro to continue harassing.
4.Its kinda hypocrytical to talk about how its too easy to recover from a failed blink all-in when their terrans have recovered just fine scv pulls over and over again don't you think. Furthermore, just because an all in doesn't win the game right out doesn't mean it failed. As long as the all-in did enough damage or bought enought time for a transition than it also is successful.
5. Protoss haven't been needing to scout because Terrans have been extremely predictable. How often do you see Terrans using all-ins, 1/1/1 opeings, or going for early 2 base timings anymore. Go back a year ago and protoss had to alot of scouting because terrans were going for a plethora of didn't timing attacks and cheese builds accompanied with alot of drop harass. Now they have switched into same old reaper opening every game.
6. Stop trying to force builds and strats to work, scv pulls won't work against templar openings, once templars get out and the protoss is still on 2 bases stop trying to break/ harass them just expand he/she is turtled up so the best thing you can do is get and economic advantage.
7. Stop being afraid of the late game and trying to end it early at all cost during the mid game. Get some ghost out and split your army effectively into a drop group and push group, scan alot to pinpoint his army, then depending on the location fly into the main or push into the 3rd/4th. The goal is to pick off a nexus or key tech structure once you see the army moving in to deal with you lift out of their or stim back. You will eventually wear keep trading and wearing down his army to the point were they can't keep up.
8. Bio is not made to go head to head with late game protosses armies. Bio is made to run around and pick apart late game protoss armies or run over the top of it before it gets up.
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On February 26 2014 09:19 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 08:46 Rollora wrote:On February 26 2014 04:50 DifuntO wrote:
All these are good changes. Now if only they can find a way to make Swarm Host PvZ fun to watch... Remove them And Oracles And WM Buff Tanks instead so we have epic BW Like TvZ action again. That way zerg gets to lose every single turtle mech and air toss game!
like it was in the end of WOL, where Zerg crushed T left and right, right?
So funny how people forget figured out strats. Like toss is now helpless vs WM drops or early aggression vs their blind 2 base greedy openings cause they are so much used to overcharge the shit out of every early aggression :D
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On February 26 2014 09:35 Rollora wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 09:19 bo1b wrote:On February 26 2014 08:46 Rollora wrote:On February 26 2014 04:50 DifuntO wrote:
All these are good changes. Now if only they can find a way to make Swarm Host PvZ fun to watch... Remove them And Oracles And WM Buff Tanks instead so we have epic BW Like TvZ action again. That way zerg gets to lose every single turtle mech and air toss game! like it was in the end of WOL, where Zerg crushed T left and right, right? So funny how people forget figured out strats. Like toss is now helpless vs WM drops or early aggression vs their blind 2 base greedy openings cause they are so much used to overcharge the shit out of every early aggression :D
I think there was a unit that worked differently back then. What was it called....oh yeah, the infestor.
WM and Oracles are fine.
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On February 26 2014 09:30 sandman1678 wrote:
I'm so tired of the Terrans complaining about not being able to attack early on;
1. 8-10 Min timing attacks are still effective you just need to have a strategy that is more than amove stutter step.
A. move out sooner and bait out a overcharge a min or so before you planned on attacking
B. bait out an over charge at their natural then boost into the main
C. If they don't have enough units their defend fight throught the overcharge and go up into the main it only does as much damage as a photon cannon.
D. Drop harrass is still effective and NOT shutdown by an over charge. Remember how you got their.....Yeah the medi vac is flies it can also flie away from the over charge to the nexus without one.
E. Stop acting like the nexus suddenly turned into zues and started hurling lighting bolts at you its just a photon cannon with larger range. If they only have a few units you can still crush their units and run into the main taking very little damage or hell you can even wipe out a probe line before the nexus cannon cleans you up which is a good trade.
2. Stop auto attacking everything focus fire down their units and then move up into the main and focus down pylons and techs.
3. Stop thinking big straight forward push alot times 1 medivac flying around dropping hear, picking up and droping somewhere else will distract and put a player so far on tilt they start messing up giving you an advantage. Furthermore, while your 1 medi is their be annoying you can macro back at home fine. The key is to know when to stop doing drop harass alot of terrans will build themselves a good lead then blow it by sacrificing macro to continue harassing.
4.Its kinda hypocrytical to talk about how its too easy to recover from a failed blink all-in when their terrans have recovered just fine scv pulls over and over again don't you think. Furthermore, just because an all in doesn't win the game right out doesn't mean it failed. As long as the all-in did enough damage or bought enought time for a transition than it also is successful.
5. Protoss haven't been needing to scout because Terrans have been extremely predictable. How often do you see Terrans using all-ins, 1/1/1 opeings, or going for early 2 base timings anymore. Go back a year ago and protoss had to alot of scouting because terrans were going for a plethora of didn't timing attacks and cheese builds accompanied with alot of drop harass. Now they have switched into same old reaper opening every game.
6. Stop trying to force builds and strats to work, scv pulls won't work against templar openings, once templars get out and the protoss is still on 2 bases stop trying to break/ harass them just expand he/she is turtled up so the best thing you can do is get and economic advantage.
7. Stop being afraid of the late game and trying to end it early at all cost during the mid game. Get some ghost out and split your army effectively into a drop group and push group, scan alot to pinpoint his army, then depending on the location fly into the main or push into the 3rd/4th. The goal is to pick off a nexus or key tech structure once you see the army moving in to deal with you lift out of their or stim back. You will eventually wear keep trading and wearing down his army to the point were they can't keep up.
8. Bio is not made to go head to head with late game protosses armies. Bio is made to run around and pick apart late game protoss armies or run over the top of it before it gets up.
Cool, a Protoss making a Terran account to tell Terrans how to play. How do you do a 1-1-1 vs photon overcharge?
No Terran wants to do a reaper opening since it kills Eco. But if you don't have any info, you just easily die to oracles or blink since they require totally different responses.
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On February 26 2014 09:30 sandman1678 wrote:
I'm so tired of the Terrans complaining about not being able to attack early on;
1. 8-10 Min timing attacks are still effective you just need to have a strategy that is more than amove stutter step.
A. move out sooner and bait out a overcharge a min or so before you planned on attacking
B. bait out an over charge at their natural then boost into the main
C. If they don't have enough units their defend fight throught the overcharge and go up into the main it only does as much damage as a photon cannon.
D. Drop harrass is still effective and NOT shutdown by an over charge. Remember how you got their.....Yeah the medi vac is flies it can also flie away from the over charge to the nexus without one.
E. Stop acting like the nexus suddenly turned into zues and started hurling lighting bolts at you its just a photon cannon with larger range. If they only have a few units you can still crush their units and run into the main taking very little damage or hell you can even wipe out a probe line before the nexus cannon cleans you up which is a good trade.
2. Stop auto attacking everything focus fire down their units and then move up into the main and focus down pylons and techs.
3. Stop thinking big straight forward push alot times 1 medivac flying around dropping hear, picking up and droping somewhere else will distract and put a player so far on tilt they start messing up giving you an advantage. Furthermore, while your 1 medi is their be annoying you can macro back at home fine. The key is to know when to stop doing drop harass alot of terrans will build themselves a good lead then blow it by sacrificing macro to continue harassing.
aaah its that simple :D
Well then, I wonder why there were only 3 terrans at the GSL CODE S RO 32?
Ah i remember: because it simply takes much more action to pull of then to defend, it doesn't do enough damage and if you go for a medivac timing, bait out the cannon 1 min before, you have like a very small window if T goes colossi -> you better leave again soon, if T goes storm, you better don't let these lightnings go down or you have lost your (at this point of time) expensive army and if Toss has any clue how Terran works, they could then just walk over you or freely expand.
In theorycraft you may be right, but let's not forget that while all that happens T needs to macro up behind (making buildings, deciding how much damage he can do and if he goes for an allin or expanding or whatever), better scout the minimap if no counteraction is going on etc.
And as not everybody is a 400 apm korean Terran, I would like to be in the toss position when Terran trys this early aggression thing you are talking about
(btw i switched from T to P or more to random and it actually IS easier to defend then to pull of)
BTW #2: all the things you are trying to say(focusing things, splitting armies drops to pull the attention etc), are the things you need to learn when you want to go out of bronze with macro builds, or in other words it is the Terran 1x1 -> therefore, every Terran knows how to theorycraft-win a game, but somehow micro is harder to do, then just thinking about it and therefore this is the reason why terrans already have 2x the apm in lower leagues and still are in bronze cause there it takes that much more effort to win vs a protoss (as you pointed out perfectly, it is JUST needed to do this and that, multitask a bit, micro a bit, focus a bit, keep the toss busy etc - yeah simple, while Toss is still save if...)
besides that, some things you say are just untrue, a 1-1-1 wouldn't work against the cannon anymore
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On February 26 2014 09:43 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 09:30 sandman1678 wrote:
I'm so tired of the Terrans complaining about not being able to attack early on;
1. 8-10 Min timing attacks are still effective you just need to have a strategy that is more than amove stutter step.
A. move out sooner and bait out a overcharge a min or so before you planned on attacking
B. bait out an over charge at their natural then boost into the main
C. If they don't have enough units their defend fight throught the overcharge and go up into the main it only does as much damage as a photon cannon.
D. Drop harrass is still effective and NOT shutdown by an over charge. Remember how you got their.....Yeah the medi vac is flies it can also flie away from the over charge to the nexus without one.
E. Stop acting like the nexus suddenly turned into zues and started hurling lighting bolts at you its just a photon cannon with larger range. If they only have a few units you can still crush their units and run into the main taking very little damage or hell you can even wipe out a probe line before the nexus cannon cleans you up which is a good trade.
2. Stop auto attacking everything focus fire down their units and then move up into the main and focus down pylons and techs.
3. Stop thinking big straight forward push alot times 1 medivac flying around dropping hear, picking up and droping somewhere else will distract and put a player so far on tilt they start messing up giving you an advantage. Furthermore, while your 1 medi is their be annoying you can macro back at home fine. The key is to know when to stop doing drop harass alot of terrans will build themselves a good lead then blow it by sacrificing macro to continue harassing.
4.Its kinda hypocrytical to talk about how its too easy to recover from a failed blink all-in when their terrans have recovered just fine scv pulls over and over again don't you think. Furthermore, just because an all in doesn't win the game right out doesn't mean it failed. As long as the all-in did enough damage or bought enought time for a transition than it also is successful.
5. Protoss haven't been needing to scout because Terrans have been extremely predictable. How often do you see Terrans using all-ins, 1/1/1 opeings, or going for early 2 base timings anymore. Go back a year ago and protoss had to alot of scouting because terrans were going for a plethora of didn't timing attacks and cheese builds accompanied with alot of drop harass. Now they have switched into same old reaper opening every game.
6. Stop trying to force builds and strats to work, scv pulls won't work against templar openings, once templars get out and the protoss is still on 2 bases stop trying to break/ harass them just expand he/she is turtled up so the best thing you can do is get and economic advantage.
7. Stop being afraid of the late game and trying to end it early at all cost during the mid game. Get some ghost out and split your army effectively into a drop group and push group, scan alot to pinpoint his army, then depending on the location fly into the main or push into the 3rd/4th. The goal is to pick off a nexus or key tech structure once you see the army moving in to deal with you lift out of their or stim back. You will eventually wear keep trading and wearing down his army to the point were they can't keep up.
8. Bio is not made to go head to head with late game protosses armies. Bio is made to run around and pick apart late game protoss armies or run over the top of it before it gets up. Cool, a Protoss making a Terran account to tell Terrans how to play. How do you do a 1-1-1 vs photon overcharge? No Terran wants to do a reaper opening since it kills Eco. But if you don't have any info, you just easily die to oracles or blink since they require totally different responses.
PDD.
I had it done against me actually. It's strong.
Nobody wants to make a Zealot or the first Stalker either. But you have to because otherwise the Terran Engi blocks you and the Reaper gets in and starts shooting your probes!
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On February 26 2014 09:52 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 09:43 vthree wrote:On February 26 2014 09:30 sandman1678 wrote:
I'm so tired of the Terrans complaining about not being able to attack early on;
1. 8-10 Min timing attacks are still effective you just need to have a strategy that is more than amove stutter step.
A. move out sooner and bait out a overcharge a min or so before you planned on attacking
B. bait out an over charge at their natural then boost into the main
C. If they don't have enough units their defend fight throught the overcharge and go up into the main it only does as much damage as a photon cannon.
D. Drop harrass is still effective and NOT shutdown by an over charge. Remember how you got their.....Yeah the medi vac is flies it can also flie away from the over charge to the nexus without one.
E. Stop acting like the nexus suddenly turned into zues and started hurling lighting bolts at you its just a photon cannon with larger range. If they only have a few units you can still crush their units and run into the main taking very little damage or hell you can even wipe out a probe line before the nexus cannon cleans you up which is a good trade.
2. Stop auto attacking everything focus fire down their units and then move up into the main and focus down pylons and techs.
3. Stop thinking big straight forward push alot times 1 medivac flying around dropping hear, picking up and droping somewhere else will distract and put a player so far on tilt they start messing up giving you an advantage. Furthermore, while your 1 medi is their be annoying you can macro back at home fine. The key is to know when to stop doing drop harass alot of terrans will build themselves a good lead then blow it by sacrificing macro to continue harassing.
4.Its kinda hypocrytical to talk about how its too easy to recover from a failed blink all-in when their terrans have recovered just fine scv pulls over and over again don't you think. Furthermore, just because an all in doesn't win the game right out doesn't mean it failed. As long as the all-in did enough damage or bought enought time for a transition than it also is successful.
5. Protoss haven't been needing to scout because Terrans have been extremely predictable. How often do you see Terrans using all-ins, 1/1/1 opeings, or going for early 2 base timings anymore. Go back a year ago and protoss had to alot of scouting because terrans were going for a plethora of didn't timing attacks and cheese builds accompanied with alot of drop harass. Now they have switched into same old reaper opening every game.
6. Stop trying to force builds and strats to work, scv pulls won't work against templar openings, once templars get out and the protoss is still on 2 bases stop trying to break/ harass them just expand he/she is turtled up so the best thing you can do is get and economic advantage.
7. Stop being afraid of the late game and trying to end it early at all cost during the mid game. Get some ghost out and split your army effectively into a drop group and push group, scan alot to pinpoint his army, then depending on the location fly into the main or push into the 3rd/4th. The goal is to pick off a nexus or key tech structure once you see the army moving in to deal with you lift out of their or stim back. You will eventually wear keep trading and wearing down his army to the point were they can't keep up.
8. Bio is not made to go head to head with late game protosses armies. Bio is made to run around and pick apart late game protoss armies or run over the top of it before it gets up. Cool, a Protoss making a Terran account to tell Terrans how to play. How do you do a 1-1-1 vs photon overcharge? No Terran wants to do a reaper opening since it kills Eco. But if you don't have any info, you just easily die to oracles or blink since they require totally different responses. PDD. I had it done against me actually. It's strong.
Hmm PDD, making a raven instead of a banshee or other useful(damagedealing) units sounds risky - but will try out, thx for the tip
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On February 26 2014 09:35 Rollora wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 09:19 bo1b wrote:On February 26 2014 08:46 Rollora wrote:On February 26 2014 04:50 DifuntO wrote:
All these are good changes. Now if only they can find a way to make Swarm Host PvZ fun to watch... Remove them And Oracles And WM Buff Tanks instead so we have epic BW Like TvZ action again. That way zerg gets to lose every single turtle mech and air toss game! like it was in the end of WOL, where Zerg crushed T left and right, right? So funny how people forget figured out strats. Like toss is now helpless vs WM drops or early aggression vs their blind 2 base greedy openings cause they are so much used to overcharge the shit out of every early aggression :D
You think blord infestor isn't played now because people forgot how to do it?
The nerfing of infestors, buffing vikings ravens thors dual mech upgrades and fucking voidrays/tempests make it pretty unviable as a game plan tbh
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On February 26 2014 09:52 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 09:43 vthree wrote:On February 26 2014 09:30 sandman1678 wrote:
I'm so tired of the Terrans complaining about not being able to attack early on;
1. 8-10 Min timing attacks are still effective you just need to have a strategy that is more than amove stutter step.
A. move out sooner and bait out a overcharge a min or so before you planned on attacking
B. bait out an over charge at their natural then boost into the main
C. If they don't have enough units their defend fight throught the overcharge and go up into the main it only does as much damage as a photon cannon.
D. Drop harrass is still effective and NOT shutdown by an over charge. Remember how you got their.....Yeah the medi vac is flies it can also flie away from the over charge to the nexus without one.
E. Stop acting like the nexus suddenly turned into zues and started hurling lighting bolts at you its just a photon cannon with larger range. If they only have a few units you can still crush their units and run into the main taking very little damage or hell you can even wipe out a probe line before the nexus cannon cleans you up which is a good trade.
2. Stop auto attacking everything focus fire down their units and then move up into the main and focus down pylons and techs.
3. Stop thinking big straight forward push alot times 1 medivac flying around dropping hear, picking up and droping somewhere else will distract and put a player so far on tilt they start messing up giving you an advantage. Furthermore, while your 1 medi is their be annoying you can macro back at home fine. The key is to know when to stop doing drop harass alot of terrans will build themselves a good lead then blow it by sacrificing macro to continue harassing.
4.Its kinda hypocrytical to talk about how its too easy to recover from a failed blink all-in when their terrans have recovered just fine scv pulls over and over again don't you think. Furthermore, just because an all in doesn't win the game right out doesn't mean it failed. As long as the all-in did enough damage or bought enought time for a transition than it also is successful.
5. Protoss haven't been needing to scout because Terrans have been extremely predictable. How often do you see Terrans using all-ins, 1/1/1 opeings, or going for early 2 base timings anymore. Go back a year ago and protoss had to alot of scouting because terrans were going for a plethora of didn't timing attacks and cheese builds accompanied with alot of drop harass. Now they have switched into same old reaper opening every game.
6. Stop trying to force builds and strats to work, scv pulls won't work against templar openings, once templars get out and the protoss is still on 2 bases stop trying to break/ harass them just expand he/she is turtled up so the best thing you can do is get and economic advantage.
7. Stop being afraid of the late game and trying to end it early at all cost during the mid game. Get some ghost out and split your army effectively into a drop group and push group, scan alot to pinpoint his army, then depending on the location fly into the main or push into the 3rd/4th. The goal is to pick off a nexus or key tech structure once you see the army moving in to deal with you lift out of their or stim back. You will eventually wear keep trading and wearing down his army to the point were they can't keep up.
8. Bio is not made to go head to head with late game protosses armies. Bio is made to run around and pick apart late game protoss armies or run over the top of it before it gets up. Cool, a Protoss making a Terran account to tell Terrans how to play. How do you do a 1-1-1 vs photon overcharge? No Terran wants to do a reaper opening since it kills Eco. But if you don't have any info, you just easily die to oracles or blink since they require totally different responses. PDD. I had it done against me actually. It's strong. Nobody wants to make a Zealot or the first Stalker either. But you have to because otherwise the Terran Engi blocks you and the Reaper gets in and starts shooting your probes!
Yes, but the Protoss I was replying to said Terrans are too predictable because they all open reapers first. I simply said that it is a big gamble if you don't open reapers.
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On February 26 2014 09:43 Rollora wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2014 09:30 sandman1678 wrote:
I'm so tired of the Terrans complaining about not being able to attack early on;
1. 8-10 Min timing attacks are still effective you just need to have a strategy that is more than amove stutter step.
A. move out sooner and bait out a overcharge a min or so before you planned on attacking
B. bait out an over charge at their natural then boost into the main
C. If they don't have enough units their defend fight throught the overcharge and go up into the main it only does as much damage as a photon cannon.
D. Drop harrass is still effective and NOT shutdown by an over charge. Remember how you got their.....Yeah the medi vac is flies it can also flie away from the over charge to the nexus without one.
E. Stop acting like the nexus suddenly turned into zues and started hurling lighting bolts at you its just a photon cannon with larger range. If they only have a few units you can still crush their units and run into the main taking very little damage or hell you can even wipe out a probe line before the nexus cannon cleans you up which is a good trade.
2. Stop auto attacking everything focus fire down their units and then move up into the main and focus down pylons and techs.
3. Stop thinking big straight forward push alot times 1 medivac flying around dropping hear, picking up and droping somewhere else will distract and put a player so far on tilt they start messing up giving you an advantage. Furthermore, while your 1 medi is their be annoying you can macro back at home fine. The key is to know when to stop doing drop harass alot of terrans will build themselves a good lead then blow it by sacrificing macro to continue harassing.
aaah its that simple :D Well then, I wonder why there were only 3 terrans at the GSL CODE S RO 32? Ah i remember: because it simply takes much more action to pull of then to defend, it doesn't do enough damage and if you go for a medivac timing, bait out the cannon 1 min before, you have like a very small window if T goes colossi -> you better leave again soon, if T goes storm, you better don't let these lightnings go down or you have lost your (at this point of time) expensive army and if Toss has any clue how Terran works, they could then just walk over you or freely expand. In theorycraft you may be right, but let's not forget that while all that happens T needs to macro up behind (making buildings, deciding how much damage he can do and if he goes for an allin or expanding or whatever), better scout the minimap if no counteraction is going on etc. And as not everybody is a 400 apm korean Terran, I would like to be in the toss position when Terran trys this early aggression thing you are talking about (btw i switched from T to P or more to random and it actually IS easier to defend then to pull of) BTW #2: all the things you are trying to say(focusing things, splitting armies drops to pull the attention etc), are the things you need to learn when you want to go out of bronze with macro builds, or in other words it is the Terran 1x1 -> therefore, every Terran knows how to theorycraft-win a game, but somehow micro is harder to do, then just thinking about it and therefore this is the reason why terrans already have 2x the apm in lower leagues and still are in bronze cause there it takes that much more effort to win vs a protoss (as you pointed out perfectly, it is JUST needed to do this and that, multitask a bit, micro a bit, focus a bit, keep the toss busy etc - yeah simple, while Toss is still save if...) besides that, some things you say are just untrue, a 1-1-1 wouldn't work against the cannon anymore
Yea it's simple, if you're a Terran trying to get out of bronze, play like a gold Terran. If you're in gold, play like a diamond player.
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Good god, is this a record? So much stupid bullshit over the last couple of pages. Lol!
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EPT
