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On February 11 2014 10:50 GTPGlitch wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2014 10:45 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Vision range nerf is tooo much!!...10 or 12 is more reasonable...the MSC vision range is soooo big to start with to help scout proxies in the proxy heavy world of PvP... Maybe just learn to scout for proxies with a probe and count pylons like other races have had to do since forever?
That is all very well but as you know cos you are here on TL...the PvP is not everyother race...how often in TvT is there proxies? How often in ZvZ? thank you...your welcome...
As it is in PvP...Pros scout a probe for proxies...then the MSC and then the first stalker... and still miss the proxy buildings sometimes...the MSC range really helps in this area tho...
"Learn to scout with a probe"...comments like that are just trolllolololol.....
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On February 11 2014 10:54 AxiomBlurr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2014 10:50 GTPGlitch wrote:On February 11 2014 10:45 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Vision range nerf is tooo much!!...10 or 12 is more reasonable...the MSC vision range is soooo big to start with to help scout proxies in the proxy heavy world of PvP... Maybe just learn to scout for proxies with a probe and count pylons like other races have had to do since forever? That is all very well but as you know cos you are here on TL...the PvP is not everyother race...how often in TvT is there proxies? How often in ZvZ? thank you...your welcome...
Terran has had to scout with 2 reapers and an scv for months now in tvp, so stop whinging. Msc vision nerf is long overdue.
Blink stalker nerf I dont know about, maybe theres a better way to nerf blink "allins".
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this polls arent even funny anymore
its always same : nerf protoss gets a HUGE approve
any even a small buff while nerfing the shit out of them gets a HUGE dissaprove
even a huge nerf as blink wich would get a huge dissaprove if it would be t or z gets an approve ...
that makes me sad because i know people just whining and voting by their loosingstreak not even thinking before clicking 
sad world sad world
ofc some nerfs are correct, but blink is rid. and mines then makes a mess out of every probe ecoline
msc nerf is a good thing, even blink perhaps slightly but with that, its not a help for pvt, its a destruction for pvz
even now they wanna change i only read ONLY NOW ? WHY SO LONG ... where does that angryness come from ? its the same you get when you play protoss on ladder ... you think its cool because your winning alot ? no its not becauee 98% are flaming you that they wanna kill ur parents ... its red. that people are not able to think 2 meters ahead when coming for balance of their race
blink nerf would be 50% !!! its like i saying broodlords or emps cost double of energy
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On February 11 2014 11:00 Snusmumriken wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2014 10:54 AxiomBlurr wrote:On February 11 2014 10:50 GTPGlitch wrote:On February 11 2014 10:45 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Vision range nerf is tooo much!!...10 or 12 is more reasonable...the MSC vision range is soooo big to start with to help scout proxies in the proxy heavy world of PvP... Maybe just learn to scout for proxies with a probe and count pylons like other races have had to do since forever? That is all very well but as you know cos you are here on TL...the PvP is not everyother race...how often in TvT is there proxies? How often in ZvZ? thank you...your welcome... Terran has had to scout with 2 reapers and an scv for months now in tvp, so stop whinging. Msc vision nerf is long overdue. Blink stalker nerf I dont know about, maybe theres a better way to nerf blink "allins".
I am happy with the vision nerf...but 9 is too much,,,,,10 is more reasonable...or 11 or even 12...for that matter...
Bet you a squillion Ringet or Rand or Dong that the MSC is not nerfed to 9...
The reason is PvP....
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On February 11 2014 10:54 AxiomBlurr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2014 10:50 GTPGlitch wrote:On February 11 2014 10:45 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Vision range nerf is tooo much!!...10 or 12 is more reasonable...the MSC vision range is soooo big to start with to help scout proxies in the proxy heavy world of PvP... Maybe just learn to scout for proxies with a probe and count pylons like other races have had to do since forever? That is all very well but as you know cos you are here on TL...the PvP is not everyother race...how often in TvT is there proxies? How often in ZvZ? thank you...your welcome... As it is in PvP...Pros scout a probe for proxies...then the MSC and then the first stalker... and still miss the proxy buildings sometimes...the MSC range really helps in this area tho... "Learn to scout with a probe"...comments like that are just trolllolololol.....
Toughen up, butter cup. 14 sight range is crazy. There is no reason that one race should have the ultimate scouting tool on top of all the other stuff the MCS does.
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On February 11 2014 11:04 AxiomBlurr wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2014 11:00 Snusmumriken wrote:On February 11 2014 10:54 AxiomBlurr wrote:On February 11 2014 10:50 GTPGlitch wrote:On February 11 2014 10:45 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Vision range nerf is tooo much!!...10 or 12 is more reasonable...the MSC vision range is soooo big to start with to help scout proxies in the proxy heavy world of PvP... Maybe just learn to scout for proxies with a probe and count pylons like other races have had to do since forever? That is all very well but as you know cos you are here on TL...the PvP is not everyother race...how often in TvT is there proxies? How often in ZvZ? thank you...your welcome... Terran has had to scout with 2 reapers and an scv for months now in tvp, so stop whinging. Msc vision nerf is long overdue. Blink stalker nerf I dont know about, maybe theres a better way to nerf blink "allins". I am happy with the vision nerf...but 9 is too much,,,,,10 is more reasonable...or 11 for that matter....
meh the vision nerf is fine, the blink nerf ... tahts where the jokes coming
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I don't even understand the argument. Why should you be able to scout every proxy building with ease? The whole point of proxying a building is that it's hard to find and it's trying to work on the surprise factor. It should be possible to scout for proxies, but it shouldn't be easy, otherwise there would be no reason to do it.
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On February 11 2014 05:04 ssxsilver wrote:
I hope this doesn't ruin Blink wars in PvP...From a spectator's POV, it's one of the most intense things to watch. As far as the hydra buff, I wished they took TLO's suggestions instead. We need to slow down battles not increase DPS.
The rest seems okay.
What was TLO's suggestion?
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On February 11 2014 11:09 Nebuchad wrote:
I don't even understand the argument. Why should you be able to scout every proxy building with ease? The whole point of proxying a building is that it's hard to find and it's trying to work on the surprise factor. It should be possible to scout for proxies, but it shouldn't be easy, otherwise there would be no reason to do it.
Agreed Sir...
Just I was saying that 9 is too much a nerf...
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All these complaints about the mine buff devastating probe lines just proves how incredibly biased or just clueless people are about this damn game.
Just a few months ago mines were just as effective against probe lines, yet the minedrop strategy was a niche thing players would occasionally do in a BOX but most of the time it fell flat on its face. Now bringing it back is going to ruin the game for every protoss. Seriously, reading this stuff just disgusts me.
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Almost half msc vision AND 5 seconds blink? I guess they are REALLY pushing it to gauging the effect of these changes. There's no need for 2 drastic nerfs.
5 seconds cool to blink will most likely kill blink builds PvP, which aren't that good atm to begin with. So now, besides blink taking quite a bit longer to research than in wol, it's actually much worse as well? For that change to go through without making blink awful, there'd have to at least a slight buff to blink research or something... and I'm not sure that would make it better without making it too strong in PvP either. Blink's already pretty iffy in PvZ too.
The tempest buff is a nice idea for PvZ. Late game PvZ is already pretty good for zerg, so I don't see a reason why protoss can't have some kind of edge (zerg has an econ edge thoughout the game and can make ridiculous tech switches by simply having a single tech building and enough larva, which includes units that make free units and dreaful muta switches). But they should probably make it only deal extra damage against organic structures, so that it doesn't affect other matchups.
The fact that they still want to go through with this hydra buff is just ridiculous. There's no reason to buff a freaking core unit that is completely fine. I couldn't care less about the ZvZ and ZvT metagame. Blizzard really needs to stop telling players what to do or trying to control the metagame. Hydras have their purpose and work just fine. PvZ has always been a pain for most protoss players, I don't know how they can even consider buffing zerg...
There's a huge difference between keeping an open mind and doing things like this. No wonder I haven't been playing much as of late. The current map pool is disgusting - instead of removing Alterzim and adding cool maps, they keep it and add Daedalus -, they consider the most ridiculous buffs like hydras (a core unit ffs), buff units that are coinflippy as hell like oracles.
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On February 11 2014 11:24 vhapter wrote:
5 seconds cool to blink will most likely kill blink builds PvP, which aren't that good atm to begin with.
Have you been watching different PvP from everyone else?
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On February 11 2014 11:31 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2014 11:24 vhapter wrote:
5 seconds cool to blink will most likely kill blink builds PvP, which aren't that good atm to begin with. Have you been watching different PvP from everyone else?
Come on, he hasn't been watching any starcraft 2.
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On February 11 2014 11:10 wUndertUnge wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2014 05:04 ssxsilver wrote:
I hope this doesn't ruin Blink wars in PvP...From a spectator's POV, it's one of the most intense things to watch. As far as the hydra buff, I wished they took TLO's suggestions instead. We need to slow down battles not increase DPS.
The rest seems okay. What was TLO's suggestion?
IIRC he said they should either give 1 armor or +10HP.
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That blink nerf seems excessive
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I'm really not certain the mothership vision range nerf will weaken blink all-ins that much. Marines are usually the only anti-air available when it hits Terrans, and they shoot at 5 range.
I'm much more in favour of the increase on blink cooldowns. Because now I can pull scvs and actually hope to catch some of those stalkers.
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United States23455 Posts
The thing is Protoss earlygame is getting hammered pretty hard here. I think just the msc nerf/widow mine buff should be enough, with the blink nerf slightly over the top. Either that or they should just do one of either the msc nerf/blink nerf. Not to mention that blink builds in PvP will start dying off, and we'll be seeing a TON of stargate play.
Hydra change is ok I guess I wish they just made them more durable, but I don't hate it. Tempest change I am unsure of but it doesn't seem completely game breaking.
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Mothership Core vision radius decreased from 14 to 9
We currently feel this would be a helpful change, but we’re worried that a vision radius decrease doesn’t really nerf the highest end Protoss players who are positioning the Mothership Core perfectly already. We’ll talk to professional Protoss players about this one once the test map goes live.
AWESOME. It's nice to see this player-suggested change being tested.
Blink cooldown increased from 10 to 15
This is a more direct nerf that affects all Protoss players. If Blink play continues to be problematic, this is the sort of thing we’d want to have tested and prepared to put in the game.
Feels more like a band-aid fix. Why not buff Stalkers and give them more health and attack damage so they trade better with Terran and Zerg armies, remove Blink and replace it with an ability that temporarily increases the Stalker's attack range and vision. It would solve a lot of problems that removing Blink in PvZ and PvT would generate like being unable to hold mutas and drops. It would also solve a lot of problems like Blink Stalkers soft-countering Siege Tanks by blinking on top of them, which should never happen according to the game's design logic.
Widow Mine splash damage component deals 40 + 40 shield damage
We’ve seen some games against Protoss where Widow Mines are used, and they are very exciting to watch, whether they’re just Widow Mine drops or Widow Mines in combination with the Terran army (while sniping Observers). We feel like both of these strategies could use a bit of help. The Widow Mine potential against Protoss basic units will be unchanged for direct hits, but we’d reduce the number of indirect hits required against units like Stalkers, Zealots, or Sentries. Also, when using Widow Mine drops against Protoss, the chance of splash damage one-shotting Probes will increase slightly.
Unpopular opinion incoming, I approve of this change.
It won't affect Widow Mine drops that drastically. What it will affect is the sky-high survivability rates of Protoss deathballs against Widow Mines. Toss players will now have to think twice about attack-moving into a tank-reinforced minefield.
Tempest ground weapon damage increased from 30 to 30+30-to-structures
We still think this is a good change, and we want to see more testing with it. If Tempests gain more ability to wear down Zerg defenses, Zerg players will be less incentivized to play a completely defensive style. Surprisingly, we’ve gotten a lot of feedback that proxy Tempest rushes are too strong right now, and this change would make that strategy even stronger, but we’ve been watching all of the major tournament games, and we still don’t think it’s being used enough (or being used at all). If you can identify some games where the best of the best pro players have successfully used this strategy against a formidable opponent, please let us know. We’d like to check out such games and analyze them.
I still disagree profusely with this. I have a feeling this sort of Tempest buff would lead to proxy Stargate strategies where you could violently demolish your opponent's base from the safety of impassable terrain. The Spore Crawlers are also not the problem but rather the abundance of Corruptors in the air.
Hydralisk delay between attacks decreased from .83 to .75
This would increase Hydralisk damage output against all targets by about 10%. Our stance on Hydralisks needing a buff in TvZ and ZvZ hasn’t changed. Additionally, the trend toward Protoss being stronger than Zerg has continued. We need more time and results to draw conclusions on the most-recent balance patch, but we’d like to be prepared to help Zerg here if it’s necessary.
Buffing Hydralisk attack speed, even slightly, can lead to dire consequences in PvZ or ZvT versus Mech. A buff to their damage versus Biological units would have made a lot more sense, especially when buffing Roach Hydra versus Bio and making it a viable Zerg composition.
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On February 11 2014 11:50 Darkhoarse wrote:
The thing is Protoss earlygame is getting hammered pretty hard here. I think just the msc nerf/widow mine buff should be enough, with the blink nerf slightly over the top. Either that or they should just do one of either the msc nerf/blink nerf. Not to mention that blink builds in PvP will start dying off, and we'll be seeing a TON of stargate play.
Hydra change is ok I guess I wish they just made them more durable, but I don't hate it. Tempest change I am unsure of but it doesn't seem completely game breaking.
I don't think it makes stargate play that much stronger - when you watch games currently, it's usually one blink to chase off that pesky oracle. Or blinking back individual stalkers against voids (more often the case it's just one giant blink forward to snipe it if possible). It just means the Protoss has to disengage for 5 seconds more with blink stalkers on retreat against void rays before they can execute blink micro again.
Same with phoenix, it's usually just one blink to chase them off. Phoenix and oracle are fast enough that currently blink isn't enough to chase them down.
And, both Protoss have access to stargate! Phoenix kind of hard counter oracles (oracles being light armored and unable to shoot air). So while game meta might shift, balance should not be an issue given its a mirror match up.
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Bisutopia19330 Posts
Blink is one of the cool, micro intensive skills in the game. It is a skill that is clear to see when done flawlessly. I'd be super saddened as a spectator to see it nerfed. It is definitely not the way to go.
The thing people forget sometimes, is that to some of us Starcraft is a spectator sport. And fixing balance issues wrong can sometimes hurt the experience. Hellbat drops era was one of the most exciting periods of SC2 as a viewer. Innovation was amazing to watch hitting several bases simultaneously and actually had a chance to shine as a micro player. I believe nerfing blink is a step in that wrong direction for spectators.
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EPT
