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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 11 2014 08:25 Azelja wrote: What the frick is a "proxy tempest rush" :O Anybody got some replays/vods? o_O In PvT, it's a proxy Oracle into proxy Tempest. After the first Oracle, Protoss builds a Fleet Beacon and begins Tempest production, then starts bombing your base from afar, picking SCVs and whatever is in range. | ||
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Dingobloo
Australia1903 Posts
On February 11 2014 08:25 VArsovskiSC wrote: Increased on-creep speed bonus up to 50% from 40% that is currently now.. EL upgrade now gives +5 sec locust lifetime instead of +10 how about that one ?? Seriously, there are a lot of ways for it to be done, duh  Which makes it even more defensive? Problem isn't that the swam host is so amazing on attack that it needs better creep synergy. | ||
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Snusmumriken
Sweden1717 Posts
On February 11 2014 08:27 Dingobloo wrote: Which makes it even more defensive? Problem isn't that the swam host is so amazing on attack that it needs better creep synergy. I suggested removing creep bonus for locusts entirely as well as the enduring locust upgrade and instead have a speed upgrade that doesnt affect locusts but makes the swarmhost itself very fast both movementwise and in burrowing/unborrowing. Either as upgrade or as instant change that is, depending on how strong it is. Something like that, basically reward agressive multitasky play with nydus worms in various locations. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3489 Posts
I still don't quite understand the tempest buff, but I'm on board with everything else. Prevents 3 hour Mana vs Firecake games, because the Tempest can then kill the Spores that Vipers Abduct you into. Still doesn't fix 2 hour long ZvZ and ZvT's. What the frick is a "proxy tempest rush" :O Anybody got some replays/vods? o_O I did this a little in the HOTS beta, when Tempest didn't require Fleet Beacon, could become a viablo metagame cheese, but rly, it's scoutable and can't imagine it being much more dangerous than proxy Oracle o_O | ||
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SixStrings
Germany2046 Posts
On February 11 2014 08:03 stuchiu wrote: Then 10 pool will be a real build again in ZvT. Just as planned. http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/list/000/126/583/DeathNote3.gif I just don't get hentai at all... | ||
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VArsovskiSC
Macedonia563 Posts
On February 11 2014 08:27 Dingobloo wrote: Which makes it even more defensive? Problem isn't that the swam host is so amazing on attack that it needs better creep synergy. It's a good way to approach the problem - Locust waves will deal more damage (a bit), and the Protoss will have 5 more seconds to respond back, so Zerg will need to use other armies to "buy" that time.. Problem isn't about creep-synergy I agree, but it's a good change.. It deals with it in a way that you can change the Locust lifetime and keep the Range-reach of the Swarm-Host about the same on the map It will also - make "hit&run" much more required, and sniping units easier if they are on creep.. Also helps another good problem - TvZ - Tanks will maybe "eat" some damage as well due to faster approaching, but Terran has 5 second plain window to snipe Swarmhosts if not repositioned or guarded innefectively for 5 full sec time | ||
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goodCat14
44 Posts
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
Death Note is the best hentai. | ||
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LingBlingBling
United States353 Posts
On February 11 2014 08:29 Snusmumriken wrote: I suggested removing creep bonus for locusts entirely as well as the enduring locust upgrade and instead have a speed upgrade that doesnt affect locusts but makes the swarmhost itself very fast both movementwise and in burrowing/unborrowing. Either as upgrade or as instant change that is, depending on how strong it is. Something like that, basically reward agressive multitasky play with nydus worms in various locations. that would not really be to viable. A lot of investment for something that could be easily shut down via scouting. The way Swarm host are designed, the only viable way to play them in the late game vs protoss is with static d and viper pulling in, they are to fragile and valuable to risk losing in active movement around the map. I mean Soulkey uses swarm host like you suggest once in a while, he will attack with roach/hydra and a few swarm host send locust then move away, but good luck doing that once it hits the late game vs the protoss deathball. What else can you honestly say zerg has that can contest the late game Protoss death ball other then swarm host turtle play with vipers and static d? Not much other than to do a timing attack and kill the protoss before then, and that's not always viable in top level Korean games. The swarm host allow zerg to tech switch to muta or ultra better as well vs Protoss death balls. At least with the tempest buff, swarm host are still good and zerg just has to come up with a way to take care of the tempest before they destroy all the static d quickly or try to play in a different fashion. | ||
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LikeTheSnow
Italy16 Posts
- Mothership Core vision nerf is right, 14 is a very high range; - Blink cooldown is something that will kill every single blink play, 15 seconds are really too much, and If they are going to buff the mines (that I think it could be a right buff to heLp counter blinkers allin), I don't see why they even have to nerf blink; - Tempest buff is really don't needed, they should nerf Swarm Hosts, it's a completely broken unit and I don't know why they are Keeping their eyes closed on that; - Hydralisk buff is.. well, it will just kill air play in PvZ I think, hydralisk is already an high dps unit. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
Yes, it weakens the all in if you commit into the main base, but guess what, blinking into a main base should be a commitment, right? Meanwhile Frontal pushes are barely affected. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
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ejozl
Denmark3489 Posts
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Killmouse
Austria5700 Posts
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
The blink nerf will never go through, the hydra change is weird and dumb, the mine change is cool, the MSC vision change is the best by far and long overdue. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 11 2014 08:40 ejozl wrote: I wonder what it is that Widow Mines got against Protoss. Maybe they bear a grudge from their husbands dead in the Brood Wars, the Spider Mines, hence the + bonus vs Shield? They needed a way to kill Oracles in one shot without affecting other match-ups; hence the +35 to Shields. | ||
Destructicon
4713 Posts
On February 11 2014 08:39 SC2Toastie wrote: As for the Hydra, I'd rather like to see a damage point change instead of a blunt attack speed buff. Yeah, basically my thoughts as well. Maybe if enough people push for this, especially some pros, they might end up changing it. I mean the extra attack speed is great and all, but it doesn't change the fact Hydras are still unintuitive and sort of unreliable to micro, unlike marines, reducing the damage point to 0 would at least make them on par with marines. | ||
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Snusmumriken
Sweden1717 Posts
On February 11 2014 08:37 LingBlingBling wrote: that would not really be to viable. A lot of investment for something that could be easily shut down via scouting. The way Swarm host are designed, the only viable way to play them in the late game vs protoss is with static d and viper pulling in, they are to fragile and valuable to risk losing in active movement around the map. I mean Soulkey uses swarm host like you suggest once in a while, he will attack with roach/hydra and a few swarm host send locust then move away, but good luck doing that once it hits the late game vs the protoss deathball. What else can you honestly say zerg has that can contest the late game Protoss death ball other then swarm host turtle play with vipers and static d? Not much other than to do a timing attack and kill the protoss before then, and that's not always viable in top level Korean games. The swarm host allow zerg to tech switch to muta or ultra better as well vs Protoss death balls. At least with the tempest buff, swarm host are still good and zerg just has to come up with a way to take care of the tempest before they destroy all the static d quickly or try to play in a different fashion. except no one likes watching swarmhost turtlefests. If other changes are needed for pvz to work then so be it, the tempest for one is an almost equally stupid unit I wouldnt mind seeing removed (buff carriers instead) but dont pretend swarmhost isnt the biggest problem in current ZvX. Also if you have nydus in key locations and can burrow/unborrow and move your swarmhosts very quickly, it will be difficult to defend multiple locations. You cant really compare to current swarmhost play since it currently only works well as a turtle. | ||
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JacobShock
Denmark2485 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 11 2014 08:42 Destructicon wrote: Yeah, basically my thoughts as well. Maybe if enough people push for this, especially some pros, they might end up changing it. I mean the extra attack speed is great and all, but it doesn't change the fact Hydras are still unintuitive and sort of unreliable to micro, unlike marines, reducing the damage point to 0 would at least make them on par with marines. I agree, more microability and perhaps slightly faster offcreep so they can better retreat. | ||
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