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On February 11 2014 06:34 Tomasy wrote:
The core problem with swarm hosts remain unaddressed.
That unit will continue to produce boring games if they wont change drastically way the locusts work.
Decrease duration, reduce hp , buff movement speed and maybe dmg a bit. Make it more mobile with hit and run strategy rather then: hit and hit and hit and hit.
Also their changes always amuse me. Why on earth do they change smth by 50 or 100% like blink cd? Wouldn't changing it by 2 sec be better rather then doing such huge jump?
I'm for removing Enduring Locusts upgrade. That recent game where DRG forgot/didn't get the upgrade, he was forced to be more proactive with moving his swarm hosts around because you didn't have the next wave of locusts showing up right as his opponent just barely kills off the current wave. It was probably the most exciting swarm host game I've ever seen. He ended up losing because he made some weird decisions and I didn't really care for the composition of his supporting units, but I think that removing that upgrade could be a good first step.
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Haha, love the glasses! On the actuall test: hope the core sight fixes the issues since the community has been pining for the change for quite some time already; blink change sounds quite drastic; hydra change is atleast better than the crazy half-gas fix in the previous test. But what do I know, I'm just a spectator.  The swarm host dilemma seems to revolve against protoss, but what about mech vs SH?
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I haven't played in a bit but it seems everyone 'loves' this patch more because it's nerfing protoss rather than complimenting the actual balance changes.
Are these changes legitimately good or is everyone just loving them because it's a P nerf? Pls help.
As an outsider some of these changes seem quite extreme and I can't imagine proxy tempest is actually a 'thing' to be concerned about...
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Blink nerf shouldn't pass. The problem with blink was just in all ins vs terran, no reason to nerf it in every matchup and phase of the game.
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On February 11 2014 06:54 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2014 06:52 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 11 2014 06:22 Yorkie wrote:On February 11 2014 06:20 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 11 2014 06:17 Yorkie wrote:On February 11 2014 06:14 gingerfluffmuff wrote:On February 11 2014 06:12 stuchiu wrote:On February 11 2014 06:11 Mindcrime wrote:Hydralisk delay between attacks decreased from .83 to .75
That's exactly what it was before beta patch 5 of the wol beta. reverting a change 4 years later lol He did say he was willing to revert previous changes. I wanted them to switch back ghost cost from 200/100 to 100/200 though. This.This.This. And this. Cause it makes sense, terran got a HUGE gas bank with bio. Yeah the original change was to nerf ghosts w/ bio and buff ghosts w/ mech since you don't have the gas to spare when you're meching. Hasn't really worked out though I'm still a proponent of moving EMP to Raven and ditching one of the Raven's current spells. I would be down for that if they removed auto turret. But then ghosts are useless Yeah, ghosts would need something else. Idk, maybe bring lockdown back!  Fix the snipe nerf (45-20 vs. massive instead of 25+25 psionic), nukes are still really strong and are dirt cheap, they can still cloak, and give them something other than EMP (lockdown is a possibility but would be too strong if it works on massive units, protoss would then have no answer to mass ghost medivac in PvT, and it would be useless if it didn't (what are you gonna do, lockdown a stalker?).
Well, locking down immortals would be incredibly useful
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On February 11 2014 06:57 crms wrote:
I haven't played in a bit but it seems everyone 'loves' this patch more because it's nerfing protoss rather than complimenting the actual balance changes.
Are these changes legitimately good or is everyone just loving them because it's a P nerf? Pls help.
As an outsider some of these changes seem quite extreme and I can't imagine proxy tempest is actually a 'thing' to be concerned about...
There are some issues with the mothership core that have been addressed, but its mostly just because people are really hating Protoss. They were finally given the tools to do well, they did (GSL) and now everyone is raging about it.
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I can't believe people are saying blink will never be researched. Holy crap, talk about exaggeration and cluelessness. Sure, we're not going to see blink allins as often, if ever, but it's still an amazing ability.
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4713 Posts
On February 11 2014 06:54 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2014 06:52 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 11 2014 06:22 Yorkie wrote:On February 11 2014 06:20 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On February 11 2014 06:17 Yorkie wrote:On February 11 2014 06:14 gingerfluffmuff wrote:On February 11 2014 06:12 stuchiu wrote:On February 11 2014 06:11 Mindcrime wrote:Hydralisk delay between attacks decreased from .83 to .75
That's exactly what it was before beta patch 5 of the wol beta. reverting a change 4 years later lol He did say he was willing to revert previous changes. I wanted them to switch back ghost cost from 200/100 to 100/200 though. This.This.This. And this. Cause it makes sense, terran got a HUGE gas bank with bio. Yeah the original change was to nerf ghosts w/ bio and buff ghosts w/ mech since you don't have the gas to spare when you're meching. Hasn't really worked out though I'm still a proponent of moving EMP to Raven and ditching one of the Raven's current spells. I would be down for that if they removed auto turret. But then ghosts are useless Yeah, ghosts would need something else. Idk, maybe bring lockdown back! Fix the snipe nerf (45-20 vs. massive instead of 25+25 psionic), nukes are still really strong and are dirt cheap, they can still cloak, and give them something other than EMP (lockdown is a possibility but would be too strong if it works on massive units, protoss would then have no answer to mass ghost medivac in PvT, and it would be useless if it didn't (what are you gonna do, lockdown a stalker?).
I wouldn't mind a revert off the sniper nerf, maybe even make it 50 - 20 vs massive, but I disagree with lockdown. We don't need any more micro limiting abilities in this game.
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On February 11 2014 06:54 dyDrawer wrote:
Solid changes overall IMO. FINALLY THE MSC RANGE. Blink nerf a little too much. Nerfing it so it's defendable is one thing, nerfing it to the point of destruction is too much. Widow Mine against Protoss... hmm... I doubt it'll seriously change the opening in TvP, as the early Forge opening developed by sOs still shuts it down very well. Maybe it'll force the Protoss to play a little less greedy (i.e. build Cannons)? I'm more interested in its performance in head on battles. Theoretically it could counter the all so popular Templar openings, as Chagelots that accompany these openings are a little more vulnerable.
Tempest change and Hydra change... worthy of a test definitely. Let's see how these turn out.
idk, with the widow mine buff I actually think this test map introduces THREE nerfs to blink all in. Widow Mines are much faster/cheaper to get out than tanks (you don't even need a tech lab). I would think that sight range + widow mine buff vs shields would be more than enough to give Terran better tools against a dedicated blink all-in
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MSC vision reduction should be enough to fix these blink all ins. 10 to 15 secs ist too severe. maybe to 11 or 12.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
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The blink change is meant to be a joke ?
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On February 11 2014 06:57 crms wrote:
I haven't played in a bit but it seems everyone 'loves' this patch more because it's nerfing protoss rather than complimenting the actual balance changes.
Are these changes legitimately good or is everyone just loving them because it's a P nerf? Pls help.
As an outsider some of these changes seem quite extreme and I can't imagine proxy tempest is actually a 'thing' to be concerned about...
As a Protoss player who has been very sick of the Protoss hate, I like most of these changes. My only gripe is that I think messing with Blink cooldown is the wrong way to go. I would be all for seeing the sight range nerf and the widow mine buff going through, I think those are very reasonable changes and will introduce some new variety to the PvT matchup.
The Hydra change is...ok I guess, but Hydras can already be pretty scary in ZvP
In short: Decent changes + nerf OPtoss = people happy
On February 11 2014 06:59 Zenbrez wrote:
I can't believe people are saying blink will never be researched. Holy crap, talk about exaggeration and cluelessness. Sure, we're not going to see blink allins as often, if ever, but it's still an amazing ability.
Still will be worth it for drop defense alone
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suddenly I feel alive again
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The changes individually make sense. But a combination of BOTH blink nerf and MSC nerf is too much. Blizzard should just pick one imo. Tempest change might solve the problem of stalemates in PvZ (or at least 60+ minute long games). Hydralisks are probably too powerful now after reaching critical mass, i think combined upgrades for speed + range will be better.
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If I didn't know better, reading some of the toss reactions to this test patch would have me believing they were going to remove blink all together.
Tell me 15 seconds instead of 10 would have prevented anything that happens at 45 minutes in this VoD of StarDust v Revenge this weekend
http://us.esl.tv/video/6cfff390cd080e0c/
Okay, it might prevent the gg that comes at about 46 minutes of the VoD, but then that would be the entire point.
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A couple of potential good changes but still nothing about swarm hosts :/
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On February 11 2014 07:04 Xinzoe wrote:
The changes individually make sense. But a combination of BOTH blink nerf and MSC nerf is too much. Blizzard should just pick one imo. Tempest change might solve the problem of stalemates in PvZ (or at least 60+ minute long games). Hydralisks are probably too powerful now after reaching critical mass, i think combined upgrades for speed + range will be better.
Don't forget the widow mine buff, that's also an indirect nerf to blink all-ins
On February 11 2014 07:04 dvorakftw wrote:If I didn't know better, reading some of the toss reactions to this test patch would have me believing they were going to remove blink all together. Tell me 15 seconds instead of 10 would have prevented anything that happens at 45 minutes in this VoD of StarDust v Revenge this weekend http://us.esl.tv/video/6cfff390cd080e0c/Okay, it might prevent the gg that comes at about 46 minutes of the VoD, but then that would be the entire point.
People are more concerned about the PvP blink battles, I think. Which are awesome. Plus, it would make defending vs stargate play a lot more difficult. PvP is in a really good place right now, I really don't want to see any big changes to it 
Sight range nerf + widow mine splash damage buff vs shields would be excellent changes to help Terran out while not touching PvP much, if at all.
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On February 11 2014 07:05 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2014 07:04 Xinzoe wrote:
The changes individually make sense. But a combination of BOTH blink nerf and MSC nerf is too much. Blizzard should just pick one imo. Tempest change might solve the problem of stalemates in PvZ (or at least 60+ minute long games). Hydralisks are probably too powerful now after reaching critical mass, i think combined upgrades for speed + range will be better. Don't forget the widow mine buff, that's also an indirect nerf to blink all-ins
because you can still dodge the shots with blink micro?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fMN6JIr.png)
