• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 12:24
CET 18:24
KST 02:24
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners11Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation10Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada Craziest Micro Moments Of All Time?
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 3 Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle What happened to TvZ on Retro? BW General Discussion Brood War web app to calculate unit interactions [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Beyond All Reason Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1618 users

Feb 10: Balance Test Map Coming - Page 15

Forum Index > SC2 General
992 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 13 14 15 16 17 50 Next All
KrazyTrumpet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2520 Posts
February 10 2014 21:56 GMT
#281
On February 11 2014 06:34 Tomasy wrote:
The core problem with swarm hosts remain unaddressed.
That unit will continue to produce boring games if they wont change drastically way the locusts work.
Decrease duration, reduce hp , buff movement speed and maybe dmg a bit. Make it more mobile with hit and run strategy rather then: hit and hit and hit and hit.
Also their changes always amuse me. Why on earth do they change smth by 50 or 100% like blink cd? Wouldn't changing it by 2 sec be better rather then doing such huge jump?


I'm for removing Enduring Locusts upgrade. That recent game where DRG forgot/didn't get the upgrade, he was forced to be more proactive with moving his swarm hosts around because you didn't have the next wave of locusts showing up right as his opponent just barely kills off the current wave. It was probably the most exciting swarm host game I've ever seen. He ended up losing because he made some weird decisions and I didn't really care for the composition of his supporting units, but I think that removing that upgrade could be a good first step.
www.twitch.tv/krazy Best Stream Quality NA @KClarkSC2
sagi
Profile Joined October 2011
Finland346 Posts
February 10 2014 21:56 GMT
#282
On February 11 2014 06:08 Existor wrote:
And here is a banner!

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Haha, love the glasses! On the actuall test: hope the core sight fixes the issues since the community has been pining for the change for quite some time already; blink change sounds quite drastic; hydra change is atleast better than the crazy half-gas fix in the previous test. But what do I know, I'm just a spectator. The swarm host dilemma seems to revolve against protoss, but what about mech vs SH?
hi patrik!
crms
Profile Joined February 2010
United States11933 Posts
February 10 2014 21:57 GMT
#283
I haven't played in a bit but it seems everyone 'loves' this patch more because it's nerfing protoss rather than complimenting the actual balance changes.

Are these changes legitimately good or is everyone just loving them because it's a P nerf? Pls help.

As an outsider some of these changes seem quite extreme and I can't imagine proxy tempest is actually a 'thing' to be concerned about...
http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png | Fighting games are great
KingAlphard
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Italy1705 Posts
February 10 2014 21:57 GMT
#284
Blink nerf shouldn't pass. The problem with blink was just in all ins vs terran, no reason to nerf it in every matchup and phase of the game.
KrazyTrumpet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2520 Posts
February 10 2014 21:58 GMT
#285
On February 11 2014 06:54 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2014 06:52 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
On February 11 2014 06:22 Yorkie wrote:
On February 11 2014 06:20 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
On February 11 2014 06:17 Yorkie wrote:
On February 11 2014 06:14 gingerfluffmuff wrote:
On February 11 2014 06:12 stuchiu wrote:
On February 11 2014 06:11 Mindcrime wrote:
Hydralisk delay between attacks decreased from .83 to .75


That's exactly what it was before beta patch 5 of the wol beta.

reverting a change 4 years later lol


He did say he was willing to revert previous changes. I wanted them to switch back ghost cost from 200/100 to 100/200 though.

This.This.This. And this.
Cause it makes sense, terran got a HUGE gas bank with bio.

Yeah the original change was to nerf ghosts w/ bio and buff ghosts w/ mech since you don't have the gas to spare when you're meching. Hasn't really worked out though

I'm still a proponent of moving EMP to Raven and ditching one of the Raven's current spells.

I would be down for that if they removed auto turret. But then ghosts are useless

Yeah, ghosts would need something else. Idk, maybe bring lockdown back!


Fix the snipe nerf (45-20 vs. massive instead of 25+25 psionic), nukes are still really strong and are dirt cheap, they can still cloak, and give them something other than EMP (lockdown is a possibility but would be too strong if it works on massive units, protoss would then have no answer to mass ghost medivac in PvT, and it would be useless if it didn't (what are you gonna do, lockdown a stalker?).

Well, locking down immortals would be incredibly useful
www.twitch.tv/krazy Best Stream Quality NA @KClarkSC2
LongShot27
Profile Joined May 2013
United States2084 Posts
February 10 2014 21:59 GMT
#286
On February 11 2014 06:57 crms wrote:
I haven't played in a bit but it seems everyone 'loves' this patch more because it's nerfing protoss rather than complimenting the actual balance changes.

Are these changes legitimately good or is everyone just loving them because it's a P nerf? Pls help.

As an outsider some of these changes seem quite extreme and I can't imagine proxy tempest is actually a 'thing' to be concerned about...


There are some issues with the mothership core that have been addressed, but its mostly just because people are really hating Protoss. They were finally given the tools to do well, they did (GSL) and now everyone is raging about it.
If all men were created equal there would be no reason to declare it.
Zenbrez
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada5973 Posts
February 10 2014 21:59 GMT
#287
I can't believe people are saying blink will never be researched. Holy crap, talk about exaggeration and cluelessness. Sure, we're not going to see blink allins as often, if ever, but it's still an amazing ability.
Refer to my post.
Destructicon
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
4713 Posts
February 10 2014 21:59 GMT
#288
On February 11 2014 06:54 Whitewing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2014 06:52 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
On February 11 2014 06:22 Yorkie wrote:
On February 11 2014 06:20 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
On February 11 2014 06:17 Yorkie wrote:
On February 11 2014 06:14 gingerfluffmuff wrote:
On February 11 2014 06:12 stuchiu wrote:
On February 11 2014 06:11 Mindcrime wrote:
Hydralisk delay between attacks decreased from .83 to .75


That's exactly what it was before beta patch 5 of the wol beta.

reverting a change 4 years later lol


He did say he was willing to revert previous changes. I wanted them to switch back ghost cost from 200/100 to 100/200 though.

This.This.This. And this.
Cause it makes sense, terran got a HUGE gas bank with bio.

Yeah the original change was to nerf ghosts w/ bio and buff ghosts w/ mech since you don't have the gas to spare when you're meching. Hasn't really worked out though

I'm still a proponent of moving EMP to Raven and ditching one of the Raven's current spells.

I would be down for that if they removed auto turret. But then ghosts are useless

Yeah, ghosts would need something else. Idk, maybe bring lockdown back!


Fix the snipe nerf (45-20 vs. massive instead of 25+25 psionic), nukes are still really strong and are dirt cheap, they can still cloak, and give them something other than EMP (lockdown is a possibility but would be too strong if it works on massive units, protoss would then have no answer to mass ghost medivac in PvT, and it would be useless if it didn't (what are you gonna do, lockdown a stalker?).


I wouldn't mind a revert off the sniper nerf, maybe even make it 50 - 20 vs massive, but I disagree with lockdown. We don't need any more micro limiting abilities in this game.
WriterNever give up, never surrender! https://www.youtube.com/user/DestructiconSC
KrazyTrumpet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2520 Posts
February 10 2014 22:00 GMT
#289
On February 11 2014 06:54 dyDrawer wrote:
Solid changes overall IMO. FINALLY THE MSC RANGE. Blink nerf a little too much. Nerfing it so it's defendable is one thing, nerfing it to the point of destruction is too much. Widow Mine against Protoss... hmm... I doubt it'll seriously change the opening in TvP, as the early Forge opening developed by sOs still shuts it down very well. Maybe it'll force the Protoss to play a little less greedy (i.e. build Cannons)? I'm more interested in its performance in head on battles. Theoretically it could counter the all so popular Templar openings, as Chagelots that accompany these openings are a little more vulnerable.
Tempest change and Hydra change... worthy of a test definitely. Let's see how these turn out.


idk, with the widow mine buff I actually think this test map introduces THREE nerfs to blink all in. Widow Mines are much faster/cheaper to get out than tanks (you don't even need a tech lab). I would think that sight range + widow mine buff vs shields would be more than enough to give Terran better tools against a dedicated blink all-in
www.twitch.tv/krazy Best Stream Quality NA @KClarkSC2
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
February 10 2014 22:00 GMT
#290
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430331&currentpage=10#184

Just call me Major.
Swiv
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany3674 Posts
February 10 2014 22:01 GMT
#291
MSC vision reduction should be enough to fix these blink all ins. 10 to 15 secs ist too severe. maybe to 11 or 12.
[_] Terran [_] Zerg [_] Protoss [X] Random ------- Fantasy - hyvaa - sOs
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
February 10 2014 22:02 GMT
#292
On February 11 2014 07:00 Dodgin wrote:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=430331&currentpage=10#184

Just call me Major.


Ok Princess.
Moderator
shiner
Profile Joined November 2009
Romania32 Posts
February 10 2014 22:02 GMT
#293
The blink change is meant to be a joke ?
KrazyTrumpet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2520 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-10 22:03:56
February 10 2014 22:03 GMT
#294
On February 11 2014 06:57 crms wrote:
I haven't played in a bit but it seems everyone 'loves' this patch more because it's nerfing protoss rather than complimenting the actual balance changes.

Are these changes legitimately good or is everyone just loving them because it's a P nerf? Pls help.

As an outsider some of these changes seem quite extreme and I can't imagine proxy tempest is actually a 'thing' to be concerned about...

As a Protoss player who has been very sick of the Protoss hate, I like most of these changes. My only gripe is that I think messing with Blink cooldown is the wrong way to go. I would be all for seeing the sight range nerf and the widow mine buff going through, I think those are very reasonable changes and will introduce some new variety to the PvT matchup.

The Hydra change is...ok I guess, but Hydras can already be pretty scary in ZvP

In short: Decent changes + nerf OPtoss = people happy

On February 11 2014 06:59 Zenbrez wrote:
I can't believe people are saying blink will never be researched. Holy crap, talk about exaggeration and cluelessness. Sure, we're not going to see blink allins as often, if ever, but it's still an amazing ability.


Still will be worth it for drop defense alone
www.twitch.tv/krazy Best Stream Quality NA @KClarkSC2
Noonius
Profile Joined April 2012
Estonia17413 Posts
February 10 2014 22:04 GMT
#295
suddenly I feel alive again
Terran forever | Maru hater forever
Xinzoe
Profile Joined January 2014
Korea (South)2373 Posts
February 10 2014 22:04 GMT
#296
The changes individually make sense. But a combination of BOTH blink nerf and MSC nerf is too much. Blizzard should just pick one imo. Tempest change might solve the problem of stalemates in PvZ (or at least 60+ minute long games). Hydralisks are probably too powerful now after reaching critical mass, i think combined upgrades for speed + range will be better.
dvorakftw
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
681 Posts
February 10 2014 22:04 GMT
#297
If I didn't know better, reading some of the toss reactions to this test patch would have me believing they were going to remove blink all together.

Tell me 15 seconds instead of 10 would have prevented anything that happens at 45 minutes in this VoD of StarDust v Revenge this weekend
http://us.esl.tv/video/6cfff390cd080e0c/

Okay, it might prevent the gg that comes at about 46 minutes of the VoD, but then that would be the entire point.
Laryleprakon
Profile Joined May 2011
New Zealand9496 Posts
February 10 2014 22:04 GMT
#298
A couple of potential good changes but still nothing about swarm hosts :/
KrazyTrumpet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2520 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-10 22:06:56
February 10 2014 22:05 GMT
#299
On February 11 2014 07:04 Xinzoe wrote:
The changes individually make sense. But a combination of BOTH blink nerf and MSC nerf is too much. Blizzard should just pick one imo. Tempest change might solve the problem of stalemates in PvZ (or at least 60+ minute long games). Hydralisks are probably too powerful now after reaching critical mass, i think combined upgrades for speed + range will be better.


Don't forget the widow mine buff, that's also an indirect nerf to blink all-ins

On February 11 2014 07:04 dvorakftw wrote:
If I didn't know better, reading some of the toss reactions to this test patch would have me believing they were going to remove blink all together.

Tell me 15 seconds instead of 10 would have prevented anything that happens at 45 minutes in this VoD of StarDust v Revenge this weekend
http://us.esl.tv/video/6cfff390cd080e0c/

Okay, it might prevent the gg that comes at about 46 minutes of the VoD, but then that would be the entire point.


People are more concerned about the PvP blink battles, I think. Which are awesome. Plus, it would make defending vs stargate play a lot more difficult. PvP is in a really good place right now, I really don't want to see any big changes to it

Sight range nerf + widow mine splash damage buff vs shields would be excellent changes to help Terran out while not touching PvP much, if at all.
www.twitch.tv/krazy Best Stream Quality NA @KClarkSC2
TeeTS
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany2762 Posts
February 10 2014 22:07 GMT
#300
On February 11 2014 07:05 KrazyTrumpet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2014 07:04 Xinzoe wrote:
The changes individually make sense. But a combination of BOTH blink nerf and MSC nerf is too much. Blizzard should just pick one imo. Tempest change might solve the problem of stalemates in PvZ (or at least 60+ minute long games). Hydralisks are probably too powerful now after reaching critical mass, i think combined upgrades for speed + range will be better.


Don't forget the widow mine buff, that's also an indirect nerf to blink all-ins


because you can still dodge the shots with blink micro?
Prev 1 13 14 15 16 17 50 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 16h 37m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
TKL 278
SteadfastSC 266
BRAT_OK 71
MindelVK 17
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 39768
Rain 3759
Calm 3635
Horang2 1511
actioN 730
Hyuk 655
Soma 340
PianO 326
hero 271
firebathero 260
[ Show more ]
Rush 119
Barracks 82
TY 68
Dewaltoss 52
Free 27
Shine 16
Movie 13
Terrorterran 10
Bale 8
JulyZerg 8
Dota 2
qojqva3238
Dendi1415
Counter-Strike
oskar98
kRYSTAL_27
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King85
Other Games
B2W.Neo1384
Beastyqt639
Lowko336
Sick140
Liquid`VortiX134
Fuzer 126
QueenE71
Trikslyr51
EmSc Tv 15
febbydoto6
Organizations
Other Games
EmSc Tv 15
StarCraft 2
EmSc2Tv 15
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 44
• poizon28 20
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 26
• FirePhoenix8
• Michael_bg 4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3438
• WagamamaTV112
League of Legends
• Nemesis3319
• TFBlade943
Other Games
• Shiphtur190
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
16h 37m
RSL Revival
16h 37m
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
18h 37m
Cure vs Reynor
Classic vs herO
IPSL
23h 37m
ZZZero vs rasowy
Napoleon vs KameZerg
OSC
1d 1h
BSL 21
1d 2h
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 16h
RSL Revival
1d 16h
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
1d 18h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 18h
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
2 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
2 days
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
BSL: GosuLeague
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
BSL: GosuLeague
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
RSL Revival: Season 3
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.