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Creager
Germany1966 Posts
Photon Overcharge not nerfed is probably the biggest issue together with not touching the MSC vision, yet. Nice that there's finally something done, but I really wish they'd do it different, like involing the community more beforehand and not just informing people about changes and putting up a test map without even really considering feedback. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 04 2014 15:53 Big J wrote: btw, when are they going to fix Alterzim? Hopefully next season with a long due removal. | ||
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Anacreor
Netherlands291 Posts
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Deonto
United States24 Posts
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FroZeN.Broken
Sweden47 Posts
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Frex
Finland888 Posts
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MidnightZL
Sweden203 Posts
On February 04 2014 04:19 aeligos wrote: zomg... the ramp width is not even an issue... but oh well thats the biggest issue yes, makes me wonder if you play sc2 at all ..... stupid trolls everywhere. | ||
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mythandier
United States828 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 05 2014 02:39 mythandier wrote: Overall a good direction but I still don't buy the Ghost energy change. Either way, can someone tell me how this positively impacts mech TvP as was stated to be a goal of the design team? This 0.72 extra Tank will change everything, man. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
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mythandier
United States828 Posts
On February 05 2014 02:41 TheDwf wrote: This 0.72 extra Tank will change everything, man. Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Nevermind, all is well. | ||
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fireforce7
United States334 Posts
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On February 05 2014 02:43 JustPassingBy wrote: Quick question regarding the Mothership core: is it true that Photon overcharge is the sole reason why one base protoss isn't viable anymore (unless proxy cheese ofc)? If so, then one needs to be careful with nerfing it, I really like (from an observer pov) the HotS PvP compared to the WoL PvP... Yes, Overcharge pretty much nullifies all 1 base and early 2 base timings in all Protoss match ups. | ||
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rikter
United States352 Posts
That said, the ghost thing is really minor, if anything. All it saves you is a few extra neurons firing to remind you to get the upgrade. It opens up a tiny window where you have EMP where you otherwise wouldn't, and then thats it, you're back to where you were before the patch. My fix to ghosts would be to make it so that ghosts dont automatically get top priority when selecting a mix of units. I don't know about the rest of you, but my biggest issue with using a bio comp + ghosts is that when the big fight comes, and I am frantically boxing units and stimming and stuttering, I will invariably catch a ghost in my box, hit E to stim and then click backwards, only to see that my army is twiddling its fucking thumbs while the ghost I caught by accident EMPs nothing (or even my own damn units). Protoss has such high burst damage that fighting the toss deathball puts you on razor thin margins as it is; any miscontrol that involves the accuracy of a critical spell or a chunk of army standing around bathing in storms is going to have huge consequences. A change like this would not affect the balance of the game at the highest levels, because the pros can manage already, but it would be tossing a bone to us lower level guys by making it a little easier to use the unit in a max battle but doing so via a change in the UI, not the base unit stats. Maybe Im the only one who has this problem, but at the very least I think a change like the one I described is philosophically very good, because it could boost the lower leagues without touching the higher ones. | ||
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LingBlingBling
United States353 Posts
That's why they asked the pros and not us. And all the Korean Terrans they asked jumped for joy when they saw the Ghost changes going live. Ghost change is prob the best thought out change Blizzard has done so far out of all the changes in hots. | ||
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fighter2_40
United States420 Posts
On February 04 2014 14:57 -_- wrote: True. But that's true for any form of scouting. If I send an observer through a Zerg base, who's to say he hasn't proxied a spire with overlord creep? And Terrans are really weird about scouting, despite having great tools (scans, floating buildings,dropships) to do so. I mean, I've repeatedly heard Terrans say they were "surprised" by a templar "switch". You can literally look at the game timer and predict when that comes, Seriously, lol. Same for a colossus "switch." Not kidding, I've heard Terrans talk about "blindly" making vikings after Templar opening. If Protoss has completely filled out his PVT tech tree before you've managed to get reliable scouting, you've got a big problem, brother. And it's not w/ PVT. I wonder if the ghost upgrade will have a major effect on reinforcing PVT. Will having EMPs out of the box help against mass zeal? Okay well with the observer you walk it around and you can tell for a one time cost what is going on. If zerg proxies a building of course scans can't hit that either, but you'd have a higher chance over time of finding that with an observer. Also, proxies are less common as they are far more risky. Although toss and terran both can scatter tech buildings across their main/natural to avoid scouting, I would argue terran is the reactive race in this matchup and relies on proper scouting way more. The ghost change most likely help with two things: 1) midgame timing attacks vs storm first builds 2) easier holds vs 2 base storm chargelot timings/ 2 base archon chargelot timings Overall, stronger terran winrates in the midgame. | ||
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Dingodile
4139 Posts
I prefer to have a "new" upgrade (only in T3 available) at Hydralisk Den like chitinous plating. Either +1 Armor or "add 5hp". | ||
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rikter
United States352 Posts
On February 05 2014 04:58 LingBlingBling wrote: The ghost buff is not minor, no offense but I don't think anyone here actually understands how big of a change that is. Biggest issue Terran has with protoss since Wings was the ability to Tech switch in a proper time from Viking to Ghost. This change will make it so Ghost are in play a lot sooner for the Tech switch to storm or can be put in play and be ready when storm is ready. Then it will come down to micro. That's why they asked the pros and not us. And all the Korean Terrans they asked jumped for joy when they saw the Ghost changes going live. Ghost change is prob the best thought out change Blizzard has done so far out of all the changes in hots. Check out the Pros responses to the proposed changes (the link is earlier in this thread). Most echoed what I said: that the ghost thing is pretty minor. Really vs P the best thing to do against Templars is snipe them anyways so they can't morph Archons and you already start with two snipes. Plus, as has also been said, by the time you walk them over to P's base they will have the energy for EMP anyways. The one area where the patch would be important is if P went for some sort of quick archon attack (like if P goes for DTs but you have enough detection and rather then transition out he morphs archons and goes in even deeper); in this situation I could see spawning with EMPs making a difference. Other than that though... This change doesn't let you get ghosts out any sooner, and really I dont know that rushing out ghosts is a good thing to do anyways. The starport is critical vs P. Your army isnt efficient enough without the healing medivac, and dealing with collossus without vikings can be done, but it isnt easy. Delaying the starport to build ghosts sets you back far. The ghosts build time also ties up your barracks, meaning that not only are your critical air units late, but you also have less M&M to support the ghosts. Its not worth it to set yourself back like that just to get access to EMP (that you would have had anyways by the time you walked to his base, so the upgrade is moot) All that said, Id rather have some buff than no buff, but I dont think this really addresses the issues in TvP, which to me are: 1) Ridiculous amount of potent all ins 2) The MSC shutting down all of T's early game aggression with one mouse click, and further enabling more P all ins 3) The protoss deathballs natural lategame dominance, when combined with point 1) gives T a narrow window to cripple or kill the protoss | ||
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Dracover
Australia177 Posts
On February 04 2014 20:03 SC2Toastie wrote: That's perma map hack in lategame, and Scanning should cost you something, that makes the mule/scan mechanic so good. I don't it will be a problem. Late game P v T is already P favoured. You can adjust the length of scan so it's not a perm maphack. more like you get to see an area for 2 seconds or something but low cost means you can use it a lot. | ||
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Blargh1111
8 Posts
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