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On February 04 2014 14:57 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 14:43 ROOTiaguz wrote:On February 04 2014 06:29 Taronar wrote:
Ghost upgrade only fixes poor scouting by Terran. A race who can just scan to gather all the information they need. Scanning is unreliable though. Say I scan a protoss's main at 6:30 and see only 3 gateways. What build is he doing? True. But that's true for any form of scouting. If I send an observer through a Zerg base, who's to say he hasn't proxied a spire with overlord creep? And Terrans are really weird about scouting, despite having great tools (scans, floating buildings,dropships) to do so. I mean, I've repeatedly heard Terrans say they were "surprised" by a templar "switch". You can literally look at the game timer and predict when that comes, Seriously, lol. Same for a colossus "switch." Not kidding, I've heard Terrans talk about "blindly" making vikings after Templar opening. If Protoss has completely filled out his PVT tech tree before you've managed to get reliable scouting, you've got a big problem, brother. And it's not w/ PVT. I wonder if the ghost upgrade will have a major effect on reinforcing PVT. Will having EMPs out of the box help against mass zeal?
Its not that simple and I find it annoying that you really think it is that simple and ppl are just plain bad....
You see a templar archives and that means what? You dont have 8 rax with techlab as terran. You cant warp in 8 ghosts at once because you scouted a few archons and HT with storms. Is the P warping in templars or chronoing out colossus 4,5 and 6`? Did he make the archives to create archons and go all in or is he getting storm and thinking long term? Its makes a huge difference. Have you ever lost a game vs a terran because he had 2-3 more of a certain unit than you thought?
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They didn't put a reason as to why they're not nerfing Photon Overcharge?
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maybe tempest deal more damage to burrowed units?
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How about a ghost price reduction? Terrans never have a gas dump in tvp, so why not change the cost of ghosts to 100/125?.
Also, giving vikings some extra hp would be nice. They are extremely fragile and die to anything that shoots up.
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So many biased and scared protosses making silly claims in this threat 0.0
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On February 04 2014 16:54 SC2Toastie wrote:
So many biased and scared protosses making silly claims in this threat 0.0
Why are you constantly at war? There's basically no one arguing against TvP buffing, and you sit here antagonizing us for no reason 0.0
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I'll just wait for Blizzard to make ZvP exiting again. The patch itself is fighting TvP symptoms, not solving the problems.
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On February 04 2014 16:21 TAMinator wrote:
They didn't put a reason as to why they're not nerfing Photon Overcharge?
I wouldnt call 10 seconds much of a nerf :o But what I gather from pro players and protoss players in general it has to do with PvP.
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I don't really care for the ghost change anyway I've kinda been using seeker missles as my anti-immortal shields.
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I think the enduring locusts upgrade is mainly responsible for the awkward swarm hosts games. It leaves them without a window of vulnerability and extends their range far too much.
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On February 04 2014 18:42 Grumbels wrote:
I think the enduring locusts upgrade is mainly responsible for the awkward swarm hosts games. It leaves them without a window of vulnerability and extends their range far too much.
Yeah, they just pin down the opponent main army very, very efficiently without giving him an opportunity to move out, unless he tries to push straight through the locusts.
Yet, the problem is without it it is just a longrange siege unit that hardly tickles the opponent. I think tweaking it may produce better results (from 25life time/25cooldown to 22/25 or 25/30), but just going to 15/25(+the awkwardly long spawning animation and the fact that if you splash the locusts on top of the hosts, the hosts go down very fast as well) will most likely just render them completely useless.
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On February 04 2014 16:54 SC2Toastie wrote:
So many biased and scared protosses making silly claims in this threat 0.0
Yeah, a few posts really take the cake :D, i also would be afraid if my race would get the nerf stick.
OT: Imo this quick patch is like 1 month too late and will do little in TvP. The damage is already done in WCS season 1.
The ghost buff nice nice and all, but when you do a timing you have to walk the ghost from your rax to the enemy most of the times (ghost energy regen 0.56, polar night: main to nat distance 41-47 ingame s with a drone) --> ghost has enough energy for a emp without the upgrade at the enemy. The best thing would be to revert the ghost change, make it 100/150 again.
Maybe with cutting the sight range and a little movement speed nerf the msc would be fine, but we will see what changes are going into the test map.
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On February 04 2014 04:28 aeligos wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 04:21 Ballesvette wrote:On February 04 2014 04:19 aeligos wrote:
zomg... the ramp width is not even an issue... but oh well its an issue if you want to expand as protoss. The race played does not determine the expand ability. That is wholly dependent on (1) player skill, (2) builds chosen by both players, and (3) working knowledge of the units and the game in general.
I would like to see you a fast expand build against a Zerg player. Because on deadalus, if i see an expansion, i will allin you with my dirtiest allin possible and you will die. Or you can do a pressure build then expand, but you will be scouted SO EASILY but overlords.
Oh. And my lings runby will kill your nat the second you move out if you did not spend all your money on a wall 
On February 04 2014 14:43 ROOTiaguz wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 06:29 Taronar wrote:
Ghost upgrade only fixes poor scouting by Terran. A race who can just scan to gather all the information they need. Scanning is unreliable though. Say I scan a protoss's main at 6:30 and see only 3 gateways. What build is he doing?
He is doing a build trying to kill you. Before the next 20minutes or so. 100% Sure :p
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I don't like exception of a spellcaster unit starting with 75 energy instead of the normal 50 
Couldn't they just massively reduce cooldown and cost ?
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
I thought the issue with TvP wasn't the strong protoss lategame, that has existed forever.
The problem is that Terran has far fewer windows to do any damage and must fear the blink all in.
I think they should remove the high ground vision of the MSC, why make it offensive and defensive
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I don't like the ghost change tbh. At least from my perspective I don't feel like Terran mid games are weak compared to Protoss. Giving ghosts energy simply gives you a better timing for timing attacks. Once that timing is past, and if you haven't done lethal damage, you're back to the state of the game now i.e. nothing has changed. So all it'll do is encourage some ghost cheese/timing attacks and doesn't fix the real issues.
The issue I feel is Terran has no reliable way of knowing what's actually happening. Your reaper scouts a quick expand, doesn't tell you what the followup is. You scan 3 gates and a blink research. Doesn't actually if you're throwing down 4 more gates in 10 seconds. There is no constant way for scouts other than throwing lots of scans, but then terran can't keep up economically.
I think a much simpler solution could be, significantly reduce the energy cost of scans or remove energy cost and replace with a cooldown. Benefits I can see for terran is, you can scan the 3 gates and and blink. You can cheaply scan again for the next 4 gates. Also removing observers will be cheaper in the mid game. In the late game with multiple CCs, you will essentially have an observer because if the cost is reduced significantly you can basically throw it out non stop.
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On February 04 2014 17:09 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 16:54 SC2Toastie wrote:
So many biased and scared protosses making silly claims in this threat 0.0 Why are you constantly at war? There's basically no one arguing against TvP buffing, and you sit here antagonizing us for no reason 0.0
Seriously? I can quote them if you want me to?
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I don't see this changes really change pvt ...
This won't stop oracle and blink and death ball at all ..
Protoss still have to many openings, to many harass weapons and can still defend any terran push with EZ in early game and still power up their maccro ...
They should nerf blink, oracle, and HT instead.
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On February 04 2014 20:01 Dracover wrote:
I don't like the ghost change tbh. At least from my perspective I don't feel like Terran mid games are weak compared to Protoss. Giving ghosts energy simply gives you a better timing for timing attacks. Once that timing is past, and if you haven't done lethal damage, you're back to the state of the game now i.e. nothing has changed. So all it'll do is encourage some ghost cheese/timing attacks and doesn't fix the real issues.
The issue I feel is Terran has no reliable way of knowing what's actually happening. Your reaper scouts a quick expand, doesn't tell you what the followup is. You scan 3 gates and a blink research. Doesn't actually if you're throwing down 4 more gates in 10 seconds. There is no constant way for scouts other than throwing lots of scans, but then terran can't keep up economically.
I think a much simpler solution could be, significantly reduce the energy cost of scans or remove energy cost and replace with a cooldown. Benefits I can see for terran is, you can scan the 3 gates and and blink. You can cheaply scan again for the next 4 gates. Also removing observers will be cheaper in the mid game. In the late game with multiple CCs, you will essentially have an observer because if the cost is reduced significantly you can basically throw it out non stop.
That's perma map hack in lategame, and Scanning should cost you something, that makes the mule/scan mechanic so good.
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On February 04 2014 16:41 Loccstana wrote:
How about a ghost price reduction? Terrans never have a gas dump in tvp, so why not change the cost of ghosts to 100/125?.
Also, giving vikings some extra hp would be nice. They are extremely fragile and die to anything that shoots up.
That would probably brake the already really strong skyterran tvz.
I do agree on rather changing ghost cost though. I ALWAYS end up floating gas in the lategame when going bio so why no make ghost that gas sink? Maybe even 100/200.
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EPT
