EPTDavid Kim's Current Balance Thoughts - Page 51
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Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26778 Posts
Guy's actually been hung out to dry imo, I don't believe SC2 is getting much in the way of resources thrown at it. Yes for sure things can be tweaked, but I don't feel that the resources (in terms of designers) are there to actually overhaul the game to a degree. The problem lies higher up (and no I don't mean Browder either), it's retarded. They're throwing money at WCS, while not (imo) making the actual game better until LoTV is out, at which point who knows how much the viewership will have declined? The first investment makes no sense without a proper dedicated effort to continually improve the game. Why are people leaving the game? BECAUSE IT'S FUCKING IRRITATING TO PLAY AT TIMES. Free starter edition is cool, BW music is cool, colourblind mode is cool. The latter were already implement by third parties and got disabled by Blizzard themselves. It's not horrifically debilitating lol, but I've had to play without colourblind mode for at least a year now since that patch disabling MPQ editing came in. The latest patch is cool, but a metric fuckton of the stuff in it should have been there and they're deliberately drip-feeding it to keep interest artifically up or they're completely incompetent. It's only now, 3 years after release that imo the clan functionality has surpassed that of Warcraft 3's. | ||
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Cheren
United States2911 Posts
On January 23 2014 01:27 royalroadweed wrote: You are putting the cart before the horse. Why do you think Terrans are leaving Korea? Apart from Bomber and Jjakji, they all left when Terran was considered OP. Anyway there seems to be 3 big issues now. 1. Terran bio too weak. It's not being used much anymore vs zerg, and losing vs protoss. 2. Terran mech too good vs zerg, too weak vs protoss. This could maybe be changed with Goody's suggestion of 2 tank volleys, making them better vs immortals but worse vs ultras and roaches. (armor applied twice) 3. Swarm hosts too boring even if not imbalanced. | ||
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Ouija
United States129 Posts
On January 23 2014 02:40 Wombat_NI wrote: Also can people stop shitting on David Kim all the time? It's pretty unedifying at times. Guy's actually been hung out to dry imo, I don't believe SC2 is getting much in the way of resources thrown at it. Yes for sure things can be tweaked, but I don't feel that the resources (in terms of designers) are there to actually overhaul the game to a degree. The problem lies higher up (and no I don't mean Browder either), it's retarded. They're throwing money at WCS, while not (imo) making the actual game better until LoTV is out, at which point who knows how much the viewership will have declined? The first investment makes no sense without a proper dedicated effort to continually improve the game. Why are people leaving the game? BECAUSE IT'S FUCKING IRRITATING TO PLAY AT TIMES. Free starter edition is cool, BW music is cool, colourblind mode is cool. The latter were already implement by third parties and got disabled by Blizzard themselves. It's not horrifically debilitating lol, but I've had to play without colourblind mode for at least a year now since that patch disabling MPQ editing came in. The latest patch is cool, but a metric fuckton of the stuff in it should have been there and they're deliberately drip-feeding it to keep interest artifically up or they're completely incompetent. It's only now, 3 years after release that imo the clan functionality has surpassed that of Warcraft 3's. Who should I shit on then? Though I have not been posting in this thread bashing him, if you think that posting some stupid win rates is indicative of game balanced your a complete idiot and deserve to be shit on. | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
On January 23 2014 02:40 Wombat_NI wrote: Also can people stop shitting on David Kim all the time? It's pretty unedifying at times. Guy's actually been hung out to dry imo, I don't believe SC2 is getting much in the way of resources thrown at it. Yes for sure things can be tweaked, but I don't feel that the resources (in terms of designers) are there to actually overhaul the game to a degree. The problem lies higher up (and no I don't mean Browder either), it's retarded. They're throwing money at WCS, while not (imo) making the actual game better until LoTV is out, at which point who knows how much the viewership will have declined? The first investment makes no sense without a proper dedicated effort to continually improve the game. Why are people leaving the game? BECAUSE IT'S FUCKING IRRITATING TO PLAY AT TIMES. Free starter edition is cool, BW music is cool, colourblind mode is cool. The latter were already implement by third parties and got disabled by Blizzard themselves. It's not horrifically debilitating lol, but I've had to play without colourblind mode for at least a year now since that patch disabling MPQ editing came in. The latest patch is cool, but a metric fuckton of the stuff in it should have been there and they're deliberately drip-feeding it to keep interest artifically up or they're completely incompetent. It's only now, 3 years after release that imo the clan functionality has surpassed that of Warcraft 3's. Terran imba as hell in 2011. It's TvT all day long. The problem persists for quite some time. Zerg imba as hell in 2012. It's ZvZ all day long. The problem persists for a very long time. Protoss imba as hell now. It's PvP all day long. There was problem that the community already identified and advocated about Protoss but they keep nerf Terran and buff Protoss. This history of imbalance just shows how incompetence David Kim and his team are. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On January 23 2014 02:51 Ouija wrote: Who should I shit on then? Though I have not been posting in this thread bashing him, if you think that posting some stupid win rates is indicative of game balanced your a complete idiot and deserve to be shit on. I'm not sure David Kim has a choice. I don't like him as much as anyone else in the thread, especially if he's making the decisions here. But looking at it logically, his team is probably stupid small, people have moved onto different projects, and he's left with a mess of a game that is his baby. Maybe I can accept that he's retarded enough to think that 50% win rates = AOK but I don't think it's likely. And this is speaking from someone who f-ing hates DK and his words, especially at Blizzcon. Those words literally turned me off SC2 for at least a month+ | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26778 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QssiuVt.jpg) There is my Kim bash quota done. I think what he says is ridiculous, but I'm more in Chaggi's camp on this one. In fact I think the guy is a fucking genius. How the winrates are as close as they are when you factor in warpgate, the macro mechanics and a hell of a lot of other volatile mechanics is genuinely mystifying to me. User was warned for this post | ||
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JIJI_
United States123 Posts
I lol'd when he posted ladder win rates - the ladder is DESIGNED to make win rates as close to 50% oo blizz u FOOLS | ||
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Sabu113
United States11085 Posts
On January 23 2014 02:53 larse wrote: Terran imba as hell in 2011. It's TvT all day long. The problem persists for quite some time. Zerg imba as hell in 2012. It's ZvZ all day long. The problem persists for a very long time. Protoss imba as hell now. It's PvP all day long. There was problem that the community already identified and advocated about Protoss but they keep nerf Terran and buff Protoss. This history of imbalance just shows how incompetence David Kim and his team are. Really Toss is due another 6 months of imbalance to clear the books. Wombat's right though. Obvious from the unit designs in HoTS, the game simply isn't getting the resources necessary. Great campaign but no one's seriously working on rejigging the MP. | ||
Destructicon
4713 Posts
On January 23 2014 03:03 Wombat_NI wrote: There is my Kim bash quota done. I think what he says is ridiculous, but I'm more in Chaggi's camp on this one. In fact I think the guy is a fucking genius. How the winrates are as close as they are when you factor in warpgate, the macro mechanics and a hell of a lot of other volatile mechanics is genuinely mystifying to me. Well, their MMR system does try to match people against one another such that they always have a 50% chance to win (or close to it), its not that mystifying and it also skews the numbers. The real indicator is a combination of race distribution, win rates and success at the rate deep in tournaments. Thinking back to the BL infestor era, we not only had a large number of zergs in attendance always, but also had a huge number of them in the quarters, semis and finals. If you looked at the win rates alone you'd have thought the game was balanced during some months, however they where skewed. What really happened is that a lot of inferior skill level zergs where winning qualifiers and knocking out terrans and protoss, that where probably on their same skill level, but couldn't compete due to the racial imbalance. Once the tournaments rolled out the much better terrans and protoss remaining would eliminate a lot of the low level zergs, creating a illusion of parity, however the remaining strong zergs then would systematically eliminate all remaining resistance until they where left to fight themselves. The number of protoss that made it trough the qualifiers already in multiple events and the state of ladder right now is a far stronger indicator then the worthless numbers DK is posting. It isn't complete though, we still need to see how GSL shapes up, if the racial distribution and representation is really bad it will be the final bit of proof needed. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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HomeWorld
Romania903 Posts
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26778 Posts
Proxy oracle was already a viable, cheesy build (albeit with transition potential). What the hell did people think would happen with faster Oracles, really? I've actually tried to be fair, and unintended consequences happen all the time with patch changes, but this one broke my brain. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
On January 23 2014 02:51 Ouija wrote: Who should I shit on then? Though I have not been posting in this thread bashing him, if you think that posting some stupid win rates is indicative of game balanced your a complete idiot and deserve to be shit on. -_-. Don't shit on anyone. Or better yet...shit on something within the game and be a bit passionate that way. But seriously...waste of effort...unnecessary expenditure of energy in a useless fashion! | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On January 23 2014 03:24 Wombat_NI wrote: You don't need trial and error when it comes to implementing things that even abstract theorycrafting tells you will fuck things up. Proxy oracle was already a viable, cheesy build (albeit with transition potential). What the hell did people think would happen with faster Oracles, really? I've actually tried to be fair, and unintended consequences happen all the time with patch changes, but this one broke my brain. NERF TANKS DON'T DO ANYTHING TO ZERG EXPECT TERRAN TO BE OKAY | ||
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Frex
Finland888 Posts
On January 23 2014 02:32 Pirfiktshon wrote: It is frustrating and they just keep pulling out the shovels and digging deeper hoping to find gold but instead find buried remains that resembles their previous blunders..... The worst thing is that they just don´t get it. Nowadays if you watch TvP without oracle or blink it would be a non-standard game. Now David Kim just doesn´t get that this is not how we want TvP to be like. Instead they show us pretty numbers. | ||
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
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Kevn23
United States80 Posts
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
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