EPTalso the ghost change is stupid. The point of mech is to make mech units, not to make a bio unit to go with the mech. Plus it would make ghosts way too good vs high templars and such.
Jan 2nd Balance Test Map - Page 28
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IMPrime
United States715 Posts
also the ghost change is stupid. The point of mech is to make mech units, not to make a bio unit to go with the mech. Plus it would make ghosts way too good vs high templars and such. | ||
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mikumegurine
Canada3145 Posts
just make tanks do extra bonus +damage to shields infact widow mines do damage like that from liqipedia: Ground Attack: 125 (Splash) Air Attack: 125 (Splash) Bonus: +35 vs Shields Range: 5 So why is it so hard for the SC2 balance team to consider that for siege tanks? | ||
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TheManInBlack
Nigeria266 Posts
David Kim needs to stop "buffing" mech without a clear vision. It should be painfully obvious by now that the one thing that Mech is missing is an all around reliable unit - such as a Goliath. Or something like a Roach but can also shoot air. Flat damage and no BS. Hell Bats might have been able to fill this role, but they can't shoot air and too much crying got it nerfed a while back. Buffing Tank damage is not necessary - it should be map terrain that would buff Tanks. I forget the map but it was in 2012 WoL with a xel'naga tower on a high ground in the middle. Above and below the high ground there was high yield minerals. Tank's situated there in a power position had no problems with damage. The only worthwhile and relevant change to mech so far was the combination of air/vehicle upgrades, but that is still a bandaid because David Kim just assumes that Terrans can automatically tech switch to air to counter Zerg/Protoss obviously superior air - forgetting that the aforementioned factions have ground units that can also shoot air. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On January 04 2014 11:00 mikumegurine wrote: said this in topics many seasons ago just make tanks do extra bonus +damage to shields infact widow mines do damage like that from liqipedia: Ground Attack: 125 (Splash) Air Attack: 125 (Splash) Bonus: +35 vs Shields Range: 5 So why is it so hard for the SC2 balance team to consider that for siege tanks? because tanks already have bonus vs armored and they are not doing 2boni for one unit. | ||
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mikumegurine
Canada3145 Posts
On January 04 2014 11:05 Big J wrote: because tanks already have bonus vs armored and they are not doing 2boni for one unit. why not? why is it a big deal that tanks would have 2 bonuses? the additional +damage to shield bonus only affects the TvP matchup (the one that mech is not worth doing) | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On January 04 2014 11:05 Big J wrote: because tanks already have bonus vs armored and they are not doing 2boni for one unit. WoL Voids. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
Or Ultralisks in the early WoL when they had Headbutt against buildings, normal attack, and bonus against armored. There certainly are ways to make it work, and giving STs bonus against shields doesn't sound like a bad idea and it isn't that complicated, but Blizzard is pretty stubborn about these things. | ||
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matthy
66 Posts
This only affects TvP mech. Air mech better depends can be very hard vs Z but the battle cruiser is so bad they should fix that thumbs up to all ideas! | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
It's at least what Im guessing, why they never consider such damage changes and goes kindof with what DB said about the replicator ("cant do massive or workers or air... the rules got too long") and with ultras, the building atzack got cut because the normal one got the bonus vs armored! | ||
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Meepman
Canada610 Posts
Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't we all been suggesting changes to make mech viable for ages now? You may as well try some of them, what have you got to lose? Even with the test maps, they aren't willing to try anything but the smallest changes possible. Hell, why not just give tanks EMP, and change one of the other "support" units so they aren't just meat shields. | ||
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9-BiT
United States1089 Posts
On January 04 2014 03:37 Nebuchad wrote: Read the thread? Your first reaction was "meh", as I recall. All the little côterie of terrans who keep writing the same post were negative about it, from snusmum to imperialfist. Avilo was pretty adamant about it, he made a long post and had an insufferable streaming session. I really hope people don't think Avilo is a representative for Terran, he is 100% bad for the game. I think the game is well balanced right now, but tvp is frustrating. I don't think PO is too strong, it's just incredibly frustrating to play against. Oracles aren't too strong, they are just obnoxious and frustrating. Everything protoss is frustrating. Or #dirty | ||
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Greendotz
United Kingdom2053 Posts
On January 03 2014 10:09 RyLai wrote: 1) Who gives a shit, it's a mirror matchup, and the nerf won't hurt macro PvP play. After balance the next important thing is entertainment. Back in the beginning of WoL PvP was simply 4-gate or die, and it was an abomination. Just because it's a mirror match up and is 'balanced by default' doesn't mean you shouldn't take into account how little changes like these can alter the match up. Just look at what Hellbats did to TvT at HotS release. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12406 Posts
On January 04 2014 09:11 Waise wrote: i'm not sure what the alternative to arguing about personal opinions is. And this is why it's really hard to argue seriously in here. | ||
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Phanekim
United States777 Posts
i think mech is a glaring problem and probably cant be addressed properly until new units are introduced in hots. the photon overcharge redution is needed. but gut instinct is 40 is too severe...try 45? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 04 2014 12:43 9-BiT wrote: I really hope people don't think Avilo is a representative for Terran, he is 100% bad for the game. I think the game is well balanced right now, but tvp is frustrating. I don't think PO is too strong, it's just incredibly frustrating to play against. Oracles aren't too strong, they are just obnoxious and frustrating. Everything protoss is frustrating. Or #dirty But Avilo gives so much ammo for the balance whiners of the terran empire. He is Idra without all the dry humor and awesome cat. | ||
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MirageTaN
Singapore871 Posts
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yokohama
United States1116 Posts
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
Reducing the duration of photon overcharge to 40 seconds is disastrous for PvP while having almost no effect on the other matchups. Almost all timings in PvP revolve around the timing of nexus cannon; many expand builds will no longer be viable with the reduction of the nexus cannon time and will completely disappear at some point. This means that PvP will be a matchup dominated by 1-base plays again, and probably the return of purely colossus mid games. The entire matchup will have to be restructured, many builds will become extinct, and PvP will return to the dark ages. I may be over-dramatizing this a bit, but I think there's a definite possibility of all these things coming true. After talking with some people, I'd be open to the idea of reducing the range of photon overcharge though. I agree that most aggressive terran plays, particularly ones that revolve around marine/tank have been completely shut down by photon overcharge, primarily because photon overcharge range is the same as siege tank range. However, by reducing the range by 1-2, terrans could easily siege protoss bases and make tank pushes/contains and such much more reliable in the future. I think giving terran the opportunity to open up different ways is overall very good for the matchup. | ||
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