EPTEnding my protoss journey - Page 13
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igay
Australia1178 Posts
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On December 13 2013 21:23 Fliparoni wrote: If you'd bothered to truly read his post you'd know that it was mostly because of the PvP matchup that he's ending his Protoss experiment. His opinions on the other matchups remain unchanged. the post you quoted still makes sense. If pvt is imba he would eventually do better in pvp than in disadvantaged tvp. He would also do better in pvt (obviously) than in tvt (again, if he had given himself some time). I don't really undertand Sjow's reasoning. U don't give up on a race that you think suits you better and is OP (at the moment) just because there are too many mirror matchups lately. I'm a zerg if that's relevant. | ||
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ChristianS
United States3304 Posts
On December 14 2013 04:17 Plansix wrote: If you blame the game, it never your fault when you lose. If you keep claiming your race is harder, then you can claim you would be so much better if you paired another race. You can believe yourself to be better and you don't even need to do anything. It like being a coffee snob, drinking super bitter "craft" coffee and claiming everyone else is a coffee scrub because they haven't taken the time to appreciate your shitty coffee. Jesus, Plansix, you're awfully harsh on Sjow in this thread. You're usually one of the most calm and reasonable commenters in balance-related threads. As far as I can tell, Sjow claims that he tried switching to Protoss for a couple weeks, got to Masters, and then got frustrated by PvP and decided to go back to Terran. You suspect that his real reason is because Protoss turned out not to be as imbalanced as he thought, but do you have any real evidence for that claim? Sjow's narrative is perfectly plausible. If he got into Master's, still had a very good win rate PvT, but had no idea about PvP, does that really prove Protoss is harder than he thought? I mean, PvP isn't very similar to basically any other matchup (maybe ZvZ), so any Terran that switches is basically starting from scratch trying to learn it. Added to that, most people don't find it very fun, either. If you're just switching for a little while to learn about Protoss play from the other side (probably hoping to get some inspiration about how to play TvP), it wouldn't make sense to invest lots of effort into learning a weird, alien matchup that doesn't really cross-apply to Terran play. So when PvP clearly became the thing holding Sjow back as Protoss, he needed to either commit to switching full-time to Protoss and start trying to learn PvP, or figure this off-racing venture had run its course and its time to go back to Terran. So couldn't we just not draw balance conclusions either way from this? "Whether or not Sjow made it into GM in two weeks off-racing as Protoss" is hardly a reliable metric of balance anyway. | ||
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GtC
United States546 Posts
On December 14 2013 07:40 Natolumin wrote: Well, that's a bit difficult when your goal is to reach top 50 GM on ladder (ladder being the important word here) What if you did that for tournaments like Morrow did though? | ||
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blackone
Germany1314 Posts
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GtC
United States546 Posts
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yokohama
United States1116 Posts
On December 14 2013 08:14 igay wrote: sounds to me like he likes to cry about balance a little yeah PvP is so imba right? | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9174 Posts
On December 14 2013 01:13 doggy wrote: Cant speak for protoss or terran here. Im zerg and i havent touched camera hotkeys nor base rotation ever, yet im quite comfortable with my macro in GM league. it doesnt really matter if you use them or not if youre fast and accurate in what youre doing. Also its almost impossible to force yourself to switch using sth new such as camera hotkeys when you never have done it - my muscle memory has been set for this for 3 years now ^^ It doesn't matter if you're 'comfortable'. It could simply be better. You're kidding yourself if you think it doesn't really matter and it's not impossible to switch at all. I'd played BW for 3-4 years before switching to location hotkeys and it was only really uncomfortable for the first few games and felt natural after a week or two. | ||
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fezvez
France3021 Posts
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Grouch
Canada152 Posts
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Cokefreak
Finland8096 Posts
On December 14 2013 10:39 Grouch wrote: Called it, along with many others. Do you want a cookie for this amazing achievement? | ||
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Grouch
Canada152 Posts
On December 14 2013 10:44 Cokefreak wrote: Do you want a cookie for this amazing achievement? Yes, please! | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On December 14 2013 08:18 ChristianS wrote: Jesus, Plansix, you're awfully harsh on Sjow in this thread. You're usually one of the most calm and reasonable commenters in balance-related threads. I don't really have anything against SjoW, its is mostly against the very vocal minor of terran players that like to whine about balance at every chance. That specific comment is targeted at all balance whine, not just SjoW's in particular. Fustrated or otherwise, we have terran players in this thread claiming that PvP was out of their control(when they switched) or that map hotkeys are useless. I mostly have a problem with the mentality of "I couldn't possibly be a fault, it is the game," coming from a player that plays at 70 apm and doesn't use map hot keys. | ||
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mcleod
Canada350 Posts
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
On December 14 2013 10:49 Plansix wrote: I don't really have anything against SjoW, its is mostly against the very vocal minor of terran players that like to whine about balance at every chance. That specific comment is targeted at all balance whine, not just SjoW's in particular. Fustrated or otherwise, we have terran players in this thread claiming that PvP was out of their control(when they switched) or that map hotkeys are useless. I mostly have a problem with the mentality of "I couldn't possibly be a fault, it is the game," coming from a player that plays at 70 apm and doesn't use map hot keys. I don't understand that logic? First of I assume your referring to Sjow's low APM. However, first of all its a big exaggeration as he has 100+ APM (still very slow). Now, if you aren't talking about Sjow, then why are your talking about not using camera hotkeys and low APM. Many great terran players have higher apm and use camra hotkeys so who are you actually talking about here? Are you adressing those people who believe Sjow deserves a higher rank? That would seem a bit weird as I haven't seen anyone say that. | ||
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ztranger
Sweden57 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On December 14 2013 11:25 Hider wrote: I don't understand that logic? First of I assume your referring to Sjow's low APM. However, first of all its a big exaggeration as he has 100+ APM (still very slow). Now, if you aren't talking about Sjow, then why are your talking about not using camera hotkeys and low APM. Many great terran players have higher apm and use camra hotkeys so who are you actually talking about here? Are you adressing those people who believe Sjow deserves a higher rank? That would seem a bit weird as I haven't seen anyone say that. You are confused with about my statement. Both low AMP and not using camera hot keys are undeniably bad habits and any pro player should try and break. Instead of breaking these bad habits, SjoW complains that protoss is the ez pz race and went on his 13 day adventure to reach top 50 GM. When he didn't make it and became frustrated, he again blamed another aspect of the game, rather than look to what he could have done to do better. Do you see the cycle? Do you know what Jeadong told Xenocider when the young terran was having trouble with protoss, "Your thoughts of imbalance do more damage than any imbalance ever could." And then a few weeks later Xeno won 10K in Korea. Friends don't let friends whine about imbalance, because it just makes them crappier players. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On December 14 2013 11:11 TRaFFiC wrote: His mech is very impressive. He crushed desrow in a bo1 on ladder. Still though, can't help but think he's selling himself short starting in mid masters (even with gm mmr). He's doing a lot of timing attacks which top gms could probably stop easily and he might develop lazy mechanics like that. Haha I can't even tell if these first 2 sentences were ironic :D Regardless, the hour of judgement will come, my fellow Protoss. Don't worry, it will come. In the past, I would have fiercely said "FEAR MY ALL-IN WRATH ON THE LADDER!" but we all know you're not afraid of much of anything Terran does in the first 10 minutes these days, amirite? | ||
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
On December 14 2013 11:37 Plansix wrote: You are confused with about my statement. Both low AMP and not using camera hot keys are undeniably bad habits and any pro player should try and break. Instead of breaking these bad habits, SjoW complains that protoss is the ez pz race and went on his 13 day adventure to reach top 50 GM. When he didn't make it and became frustrated, he again blamed another aspect of the game, rather than look to what he could have done to do better. Do you see the cycle? Do you know what Jeadong told Xenocider when the young terran was having trouble with protoss, "Your thoughts of imbalance do more damage than any imbalance ever could." And then a few weeks later Xeno won 10K in Korea. Friends don't let friends whine about imbalance, because it just makes them crappier players. Im just gonna repeat your quote: I don't really have anything against SjoW, its is mostly against the very vocal minor of terran players that like to whine about balance at every chance. Can you clear up the confusion. Is your problem with sjow or somebody else? | ||
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