EPTEnding my protoss journey - Page 14
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On December 14 2013 11:44 Hider wrote: Im just gonna repeat your quote: Can you clear up the confusion. Is your problem with sjow or somebody else? I think you answered your own question there. Does SjoW whine about balance? Yes. Do I think that whining about balance makes your play crappier and makes you an overall worse player? Yep. | ||
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HaRuHi
1220 Posts
Good that you take fun over balance though. Pvp can be enjoyable, it probably just takes a little more than two weeks to wrap your head around it. | ||
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pookums
151 Posts
On December 14 2013 04:12 DinoMight wrote: I really don't understand why Terrans think their race is so much harder to play than the others. It's not. I've played it. In fact my buddy has 85% win rate TvP as a RANDOM player. And he only mechs! Balance in all matchups at the professional level (where professionals like SJOW are) is very close to 50%. PvT is not imba. TvP is not imba. Nothing is imba. Some players work hard to get better and others work less hard then complain about it. People think terran is harder than the other races because the other races have had far more success in the foreigner scene. If terran was roughly as hard as the other races then we'd see roughly the same number of foreigner terrans in later stages of tournaments. But how often does that happen? Very rarely. It's not unusual (relatively speaking) to see foreign zergs or protosses advance in tournaments by beating Koreans but it almost never happens with terrans. You can go all the way back to mid 2011 or so and you'll notice this trend. I don't know who you're trying to kid if you think terran isn't harder than other races (at high levels). | ||
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9-BiT
United States1089 Posts
On December 14 2013 11:49 Plansix wrote: I think you answered your own question there. Does SjoW whine about balance? Yes. Do I think that whining about balance makes your play crappier and makes you an overall worse player? Yep. Well in this small sample size it would seem to be that balance whining makes you a much better player. | ||
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imrepresent
United States7 Posts
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BronzeKnee
United States5218 Posts
... On December 14 2013 11:51 pookums wrote: It's not unusual (relatively speaking) to see foreign zergs or protosses advance in tournaments by beating Koreans but it almost never happens with terrans.. There is this guy, you probably don't know him, probably weren't around when he was playing, but his name is Jinro. He has been the most successful foreigner in GSL history, more so than Idra, more so than Ret, more so than Naniwa. And he was Terran. And there is this other guy, his name is Thorzain... you may have forgotten but he won TSL3. He was pretty much a no-name before that tournament. And in that tournament he beat Fruitdealer and MC, two GSL champions at their peak on his way to victory. And he was also Terran. What foreign Protosses have been that good? Huk and Naniwa are the top performers, but their achievements are on par with Jinro and Thorzain. Stephano really skews everything, he was amazing, and made Zerg look so good. But beyond him, what great foreign Zergs do we have? Idra probably has the most achievements, Scarlett looks really good right now, but who else? | ||
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tshi
United States2495 Posts
On December 14 2013 14:23 BronzeKnee wrote: He went from stating Protoss is "imba as hell" before he began, to stating that Protoss is only imba versus Terran in the end. ... Clarity in one's thoughts is important! | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On December 14 2013 14:23 BronzeKnee wrote: He went from stating Protoss is "imba as hell" before he began, to stating that Protoss is only imba versus Terran in the end. ... There is this guy, you probably don't know him, probably weren't around when he was playing, but his name is Jinro. He has been the most successful foreigner in GSL history, more so than Idra, more so than Ret, more so than Naniwa. And he was Terran. And there is this other guy, his name is Thorzain... you may have forgotten but he won TSL3. He was pretty much a no-name before that tournament. And in that tournament he beat Fruitdealer and MC, two GSL champions at their peak on his way to victory. And he was also Terran. What foreign Protosses have been that good? Huk and Naniwa are the top performers, but their achievements are on par with Jinro and Thorzain. Stephano really skews everything, he was amazing, and made Zerg look so good. But beyond him, what great foreign Zergs do we have? Idra probably has the most achievements, Scarlett looks really good right now, but who else? LOL What a load of crockshit Thorzain played in a tournament where there wasn't even that many Koreans, yeah MC and Fruitdealer were in there but it's not like it was loaded with Koreans. Naniwa's GSL runs was way more impressive than Jinro's even though Jinro got farther. Naniwa did it in a harder tournament by far. Also you look at who's winning tournaments. That's a horrible way to judge success. Are we going to say MVPSniper is really that good even though he won a GSL? Look at the best foreigners and look how long they've been good. Naniwa's been on the scene forever. Scarlett's been on a rampage beating really good players, even if she's not winning stuff. And we all know about Stephano. Look whatever you want but foreign Terrans are the whipping boys of the foreign scene. There's a reason why it's "Korean Terrans" and everyone else. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On December 14 2013 11:49 Plansix wrote: I think you answered your own question there. Does SjoW whine about balance? Yes. Do I think that whining about balance makes your play crappier and makes you an overall worse player? Yep. This implies that talking about imbalance means you're trying less hard and this affects your play. That doesn't always happen. | ||
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Let it Raine
Canada1245 Posts
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tshi
United States2495 Posts
On December 14 2013 15:36 Let it Raine wrote: it still boggles my mind that the average gamer thinks their opinion is correct, at all Haha when I consulted at capcom for something, i read some of the 'complaints' and stuff, it's really amusing but yeah. I feel bad for David Kim.  !! | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5218 Posts
On December 14 2013 15:06 Chaggi wrote: Also you look at who's winning tournaments. That's a horrible way to judge success. I'm not sure if your trolling... maybe it is a language barrier issue? suc·cess [suhk-ses] noun 1. the favorable or prosperous termination of attempts or endeavors; the accomplishment of one's goals. 2. the attainment of wealth, position, honors, or the like. 3. a performance or achievement that is marked by success, as by the attainment of honors: The play was an instant success. 4. a person or thing that has had success, as measured by attainment of goals, wealth, etc.: She was a great success on the talk show. Winning is the measure of success in competition. There is no other objective measure. | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5218 Posts
On December 14 2013 15:36 Let it Raine wrote: it still boggles my mind that the average gamer thinks their opinion is correct, at all Why? It doesn't matter who says it, or who does it, right it right and wrong is wrong. What you are presenting is argument from authority, which is a logical fallacy. Just because David Kim is David Kim doesn't mean he is right, and plenty of us "average gamers" have been right a lot of the time. Balancing a game isn't rocket science, don't try to pull the wool over people's eyes and pretend it is. Check this out: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/2416114960 I laid it all out for Blizzard. I laid out how the Warp Gate change would allow for the 1-1-1 to exist, how it would kill Gate expands in PvZ and why ramps needed to be fix. Six months later, they finally fixed ramps, the 1-1-1 was dominant, and Gate expands died in PvZ. All that happened. So who was right? How bout the Siege Tank buff (attack speed increase) and the fact Hellbats needed nerfed and where BFHs 2.0? Months ago I laid that out too: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=378373 And I was certainly not the only one who thought these things... many people did, but Blizzard didn't listen... and then months later they ended up essentially doing what the "average gamers" like me said they should. This is not mind boggling work that the average gamer can't comprehend. What is incomprehensible is that the Warhound even made it to Beta, or that the Replicant was seen by the public. Such bad unit ideas are products of a team that doesn't understand the game at all. Evident by the fact they were removed. And they are paid to do their job. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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ki11z0ne
United States427 Posts
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OGzan
United States289 Posts
On December 14 2013 06:22 Plansix wrote: Or the patch changed the match up so much he needs to relearn it. You just like to continuously argue to try and save face, atleast that's the image I'm getting from you. When people balance whine sometimes there's credence to it. You didn't have to relearn the whole match up to have see that hellbats were imbalanced. Oracles are too easy to control and offer way too much reward for such little risk. They made it easier to control with increased speed and acceleration, hence why it's currently imbalanced. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On December 14 2013 17:12 OGzan wrote: You just like to continuously argue to try and save face, atleast that's the image I'm getting from you. When people balance whine sometimes there's credence to it. You didn't have to relearn the whole match up to have see that hellbats were imbalanced. Oracles are too easy to control and offer way too much reward for such little risk. They made it easier to control with increased speed and acceleration, hence why it's currently imbalanced. dont...argue...with...plansix. | ||
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Dirtyharry
Germany171 Posts
On December 14 2013 06:36 painkilla wrote: Don't feed the troll. He loved his philosophical agruments while rarely added any real content to the discussion. Yeah, he is truly a philosoph like I've never seen before!! A philosophical powerhouse this guy. | ||
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keglu
Poland485 Posts
On December 14 2013 14:23 BronzeKnee wrote: He went from stating Protoss is "imba as hell" before he began, to stating that Protoss is only imba versus Terran in the end. ... There is this guy, you probably don't know him, probably weren't around when he was playing, but his name is Jinro. He has been the most successful foreigner in GSL history, more so than Idra, more so than Ret, more so than Naniwa. And he was Terran. And there is this other guy, his name is Thorzain... you may have forgotten but he won TSL3. He was pretty much a no-name before that tournament. And in that tournament he beat Fruitdealer and MC, two GSL champions at their peak on his way to victory. And he was also Terran. What foreign Protosses have been that good? Huk and Naniwa are the top performers, but their achievements are on par with Jinro and Thorzain. Stephano really skews everything, he was amazing, and made Zerg look so good. But beyond him, what great foreign Zergs do we have? Idra probably has the most achievements, Scarlett looks really good right now, but who else? April 2012 - last time T foreigner played in final of Premier tournament. Before that i was March 2011. | ||
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