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On December 14 2013 05:54 mabla wrote:How come there are a lot more protoss players in every gm league (na,eu and kr), while every race has almost the same playerpool? Source: http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/race
Because life is hard and more Protoss made it into GM. Why do Terran throw down with this stat every time they don't have anything else to argue? Do you see zergs breaking this thing out all the time?
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On December 13 2013 21:39 Faust852 wrote:Haha, PvP more frustrating than TvP apparently. Welcome back, we need more terrans in GM 
PvP is exactly why I'll never play Protoss as my primary race.
For everything else that makes Terran frustrating TvT is an absolute saving grace. It's by far the most fun mirror match up for me to play or watch. When I'm not playing Random, I prefer Terran. ZvZ and PvP just suck too much,
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On December 14 2013 05:59 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2013 23:16 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:10 RaZorwire wrote:On December 13 2013 22:58 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 22:16 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 22:10 synd wrote:
wow, toss such ez, like really ez money.
13 days later = switching back to Terran.
lel
Sup, SjoW.
Please trash talk some more the successful toss players who practice more than you. I think you are really stupid because you can't read the OP. People read the OP, but we don't believe him. He just figured out that Protoss wasn't as ez pz as he thought in all the match ups and switched back. Because making up your own truth about someone on the internet is always better than listening to the person in question. TL.net in a nutshell. It's not true, it's opinion. My opinion is Sjow got to the point where he would have to learn how to play Protoss for real and decided to back out. He didn't reach his goal and saw that it was a lot harder them he thought it was going to be. I won't believe Avilo either when he comes out with his excuse either. I can confirm the same thing sjow says. During beta I offraced as Protoss for an entire two weeks and became actually quite good at it. Then in the last couple days i offraced for two days as Protoss. I have already been beating masters level Protosses in PvP but it was mostly pure build order luck in my opinion when i won some of these games. And then I would lose to diamond Protoss the next game...after just making a master Protoss look really, really bad... I don't know how bad PvP was before the oracle buff, but it became just as bad as TvP after it it seems, there's now way too many build options to the point the match-up is more build order driven than skill driven in my opinion. And also, as rank gets higher and higher...was playing more and more PvP over and over which can really get tiring. I was having hella fun as well at first offrace learning P and then my GF kept telling me to remember to have fun and stop looking angry lol and i realized after every PvP i played i felt entirely frustrated and almost angry @_@ because the games feel entirely out of my control. And ladder right now is almost 50% Protoss...is this not worse than the end of wings of liberty Zerg? I suppose people can make their own judgements, but playing PvP all day would drive anyone mad.
Yet there are terrans in this thread that provide conflicting opinions, I think we can take your a grain of salt. Also you are the "Idra" of Terran, so there is that. The fact that you think PVP is totally out of your control is really amusing. Do you think Korean Protoss like Dear agree?
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On December 14 2013 06:10 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 05:59 avilo wrote:On December 13 2013 23:16 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:10 RaZorwire wrote:On December 13 2013 22:58 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 22:16 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 22:10 synd wrote:
wow, toss such ez, like really ez money.
13 days later = switching back to Terran.
lel
Sup, SjoW.
Please trash talk some more the successful toss players who practice more than you. I think you are really stupid because you can't read the OP. People read the OP, but we don't believe him. He just figured out that Protoss wasn't as ez pz as he thought in all the match ups and switched back. Because making up your own truth about someone on the internet is always better than listening to the person in question. TL.net in a nutshell. It's not true, it's opinion. My opinion is Sjow got to the point where he would have to learn how to play Protoss for real and decided to back out. He didn't reach his goal and saw that it was a lot harder them he thought it was going to be. I won't believe Avilo either when he comes out with his excuse either. I can confirm the same thing sjow says. During beta I offraced as Protoss for an entire two weeks and became actually quite good at it. Then in the last couple days i offraced for two days as Protoss. I have already been beating masters level Protosses in PvP but it was mostly pure build order luck in my opinion when i won some of these games. And then I would lose to diamond Protoss the next game...after just making a master Protoss look really, really bad... I don't know how bad PvP was before the oracle buff, but it became just as bad as TvP after it it seems, there's now way too many build options to the point the match-up is more build order driven than skill driven in my opinion. And also, as rank gets higher and higher...was playing more and more PvP over and over which can really get tiring. I was having hella fun as well at first offrace learning P and then my GF kept telling me to remember to have fun and stop looking angry lol and i realized after every PvP i played i felt entirely frustrated and almost angry @_@ because the games feel entirely out of my control. And ladder right now is almost 50% Protoss...is this not worse than the end of wings of liberty Zerg? I suppose people can make their own judgements, but playing PvP all day would drive anyone mad. Yet there are terrans in this thread that provide conflicting opinions, I think we can take your a grain of salt. Also you are the "Idra" of Terran, so there is that. The fact that you think PVP is totally out of your control is really amusing. Do you think Korean Protoss like Dear agree?
Why Dear... just ask Oz :p
Also reading Avilo's take on Toss is funny, not necessarily true but funny.
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On December 14 2013 06:10 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 05:59 avilo wrote:On December 13 2013 23:16 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:10 RaZorwire wrote:On December 13 2013 22:58 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 22:16 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 22:10 synd wrote:
wow, toss such ez, like really ez money.
13 days later = switching back to Terran.
lel
Sup, SjoW.
Please trash talk some more the successful toss players who practice more than you. I think you are really stupid because you can't read the OP. People read the OP, but we don't believe him. He just figured out that Protoss wasn't as ez pz as he thought in all the match ups and switched back. Because making up your own truth about someone on the internet is always better than listening to the person in question. TL.net in a nutshell. It's not true, it's opinion. My opinion is Sjow got to the point where he would have to learn how to play Protoss for real and decided to back out. He didn't reach his goal and saw that it was a lot harder them he thought it was going to be. I won't believe Avilo either when he comes out with his excuse either. I can confirm the same thing sjow says. During beta I offraced as Protoss for an entire two weeks and became actually quite good at it. Then in the last couple days i offraced for two days as Protoss. I have already been beating masters level Protosses in PvP but it was mostly pure build order luck in my opinion when i won some of these games. And then I would lose to diamond Protoss the next game...after just making a master Protoss look really, really bad... I don't know how bad PvP was before the oracle buff, but it became just as bad as TvP after it it seems, there's now way too many build options to the point the match-up is more build order driven than skill driven in my opinion. And also, as rank gets higher and higher...was playing more and more PvP over and over which can really get tiring. I was having hella fun as well at first offrace learning P and then my GF kept telling me to remember to have fun and stop looking angry lol and i realized after every PvP i played i felt entirely frustrated and almost angry @_@ because the games feel entirely out of my control. And ladder right now is almost 50% Protoss...is this not worse than the end of wings of liberty Zerg? I suppose people can make their own judgements, but playing PvP all day would drive anyone mad. Yet there are terrans in this thread that provide conflicting opinions, I think we can take your a grain of salt. Also you are the "Idra" of Terran, so there is that. The fact that you think PVP is totally out of your control is really amusing. Do you think Korean Protoss like Dear agree?
They probably do. I believe Parting recently said in an interview something about the oracle buff being really bad and unasked for even by Protoss players. He's a korean player.
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On December 14 2013 04:44 GoodJazz wrote:
So good to see all the insulted protoss coming in here and having a good time. Keep it up lads.
The fact that he made it to top master and had a decent win rate in a couple of days makes me think he would've reached GM if he kept pushing.
Yeah, he was pretty close to GM actually, which is truly impressive if in fact he had only been at it for 13 days.
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You started with a loser mentality and you ended with an even worst mentality ....
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When was the last time you saw a "top foreign Terran" play a top Korean Protoss in the first place? Most of these foreign Terrans are just like Sjow... they're the types of players that complain about region locking and PvT imba and all that stuff. There are two foreign players that stand out miles above the rest. I don't think it's by accident. They obviously are the hardest workers out there.
You got the causality the completely wrong way. There aren't many foreign terrans because of balance issues. For some reason you just assumed that terrans per definition is worse less hardworking players that likes to whine, and that's why we should expect them to perform worse. That seemed like a quite bias'ed argument by you.
On December 14 2013 06:13 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 06:10 Plansix wrote:On December 14 2013 05:59 avilo wrote:On December 13 2013 23:16 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:10 RaZorwire wrote:On December 13 2013 22:58 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 22:16 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 22:10 synd wrote:
wow, toss such ez, like really ez money.
13 days later = switching back to Terran.
lel
Sup, SjoW.
Please trash talk some more the successful toss players who practice more than you. I think you are really stupid because you can't read the OP. People read the OP, but we don't believe him. He just figured out that Protoss wasn't as ez pz as he thought in all the match ups and switched back. Because making up your own truth about someone on the internet is always better than listening to the person in question. TL.net in a nutshell. It's not true, it's opinion. My opinion is Sjow got to the point where he would have to learn how to play Protoss for real and decided to back out. He didn't reach his goal and saw that it was a lot harder them he thought it was going to be. I won't believe Avilo either when he comes out with his excuse either. I can confirm the same thing sjow says. During beta I offraced as Protoss for an entire two weeks and became actually quite good at it. Then in the last couple days i offraced for two days as Protoss. I have already been beating masters level Protosses in PvP but it was mostly pure build order luck in my opinion when i won some of these games. And then I would lose to diamond Protoss the next game...after just making a master Protoss look really, really bad... I don't know how bad PvP was before the oracle buff, but it became just as bad as TvP after it it seems, there's now way too many build options to the point the match-up is more build order driven than skill driven in my opinion. And also, as rank gets higher and higher...was playing more and more PvP over and over which can really get tiring. I was having hella fun as well at first offrace learning P and then my GF kept telling me to remember to have fun and stop looking angry lol and i realized after every PvP i played i felt entirely frustrated and almost angry @_@ because the games feel entirely out of my control. And ladder right now is almost 50% Protoss...is this not worse than the end of wings of liberty Zerg? I suppose people can make their own judgements, but playing PvP all day would drive anyone mad. Yet there are terrans in this thread that provide conflicting opinions, I think we can take your a grain of salt. Also you are the "Idra" of Terran, so there is that. The fact that you think PVP is totally out of your control is really amusing. Do you think Korean Protoss like Dear agree? They probably do. I believe Parting recently said in an interview something about the oracle buff being really bad and unasked for even by Protoss players. He's a korean player.
Naniwa said the same thing.
Edit: And thinking about it, I actually remember Dear saying something like that as well in an interview.
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On December 14 2013 06:04 Plansix wrote:Because life is hard and more Protoss made it into GM. Why do Terran throw down with this stat every time they don't have anything else to argue? Do you see zergs breaking this thing out all the time?
Because the same thing happens across all ladders. Can't just ignore it. There is .0000000001% that this is random.
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On December 14 2013 06:13 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 06:10 Plansix wrote:On December 14 2013 05:59 avilo wrote:On December 13 2013 23:16 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 23:10 RaZorwire wrote:On December 13 2013 22:58 Plansix wrote:On December 13 2013 22:16 Faust852 wrote:On December 13 2013 22:10 synd wrote:
wow, toss such ez, like really ez money.
13 days later = switching back to Terran.
lel
Sup, SjoW.
Please trash talk some more the successful toss players who practice more than you. I think you are really stupid because you can't read the OP. People read the OP, but we don't believe him. He just figured out that Protoss wasn't as ez pz as he thought in all the match ups and switched back. Because making up your own truth about someone on the internet is always better than listening to the person in question. TL.net in a nutshell. It's not true, it's opinion. My opinion is Sjow got to the point where he would have to learn how to play Protoss for real and decided to back out. He didn't reach his goal and saw that it was a lot harder them he thought it was going to be. I won't believe Avilo either when he comes out with his excuse either. I can confirm the same thing sjow says. During beta I offraced as Protoss for an entire two weeks and became actually quite good at it. Then in the last couple days i offraced for two days as Protoss. I have already been beating masters level Protosses in PvP but it was mostly pure build order luck in my opinion when i won some of these games. And then I would lose to diamond Protoss the next game...after just making a master Protoss look really, really bad... I don't know how bad PvP was before the oracle buff, but it became just as bad as TvP after it it seems, there's now way too many build options to the point the match-up is more build order driven than skill driven in my opinion. And also, as rank gets higher and higher...was playing more and more PvP over and over which can really get tiring. I was having hella fun as well at first offrace learning P and then my GF kept telling me to remember to have fun and stop looking angry lol and i realized after every PvP i played i felt entirely frustrated and almost angry @_@ because the games feel entirely out of my control. And ladder right now is almost 50% Protoss...is this not worse than the end of wings of liberty Zerg? I suppose people can make their own judgements, but playing PvP all day would drive anyone mad. Yet there are terrans in this thread that provide conflicting opinions, I think we can take your a grain of salt. Also you are the "Idra" of Terran, so there is that. The fact that you think PVP is totally out of your control is really amusing. Do you think Korean Protoss like Dear agree? They probably do. I believe Parting recently said in an interview something about the oracle buff being really bad and unasked for even by Protoss players. He's a korean player.
Yes, but his PvP is fucking stellar, and not at all a conflip. His build is really well designed to scout for/be prepared for everything. Did you see him manhandle sOs 4-1 at Red Bull?
His Oracle concerns were mostly for PvP. 3 Stalker pressure which was quite common now just instantly loses to the new Oracles because the 1-2 defensive Stalkers you warp in can't actually kill it before it gets away. So then it comes back.
Vs Terran I don't know what the problem is. Either you have a Turret in your mineral line and it does nothing or you don't and it kills all your workers. This was the same before the speed buff.
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On December 14 2013 04:59 ZenithM wrote:
I'm sorry to say this, but I think Sjow just isn't really good, and in particular doesn't have much of what makes a Terran usually shine over a Protoss (mainly mechanics, multitasking and micro). I'd say his preferred playstyle (slow but "smart") is more adapted to Protoss, but he didn't stick to the race long enough so it didn't really show (huehuehue).
What this is is really just a failed experiment, as all the fellow Protoss in this thread loved to point out, I'm sure. So, until proven otherwise, there are 50% Protoss in GM because 1) Protoss players are just better, 2) Nobody wants to play the humans, 3) they worked harder than the others (I read that in this thread).
That might well be true. We all have individual stylistic preferences and each race seems to be optimized towards a certain set of play styles (although, even this is complicated in that certain styles of play are more playable in some match-ups than others). This is one reason why even a successful swap to another race may not indicate anything other than finding a better fit for one's physical and mental skill set in SC2. Of course, with Sjow, we won't find out because he quit. Not that I'm all that surprised that he quit at the first sight of a few hurdles. Given his whine throughout his "experiment" and his shit-talk, I doubt it was ever a serious attempt to learn another race. He cheesed hard and often in PvT and was woeful in PvZ and PvP. So, yeah, I have little sympathy for him and am quite glad that he has ended up eating his own shit. So much for the Sjow.
As to the 50% Protoss GM, it's neither 1 or 2 or 3. I have no idea why that stat is what it is (assuming it is true) and am not sure if it even indicates anything of significance (there is no reason why racial representation on ladder should be 33.3% all the time). Of course, next season may be different and this may look yet another storm in the easily stirred SC2 tea-cup.
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Quoting Dear
There’s a lot of variability in the mirror matchup, and after the most recent patch I don’t feel like I understand the match-up at all.
One could interpret variability as coinflipness.
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Please, Parting doesn't think the game is out of his control. Neither does Jeadong, Innovation, Dear or any champion level player. They may comment of buffs and patches, but they do not think they have no control over the outcome of a game. Anyone claiming that is just making shit up to prove their point.
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On December 14 2013 06:04 Plansix wrote:
Because life is hard
I don't think thats the right explanation for this peculiarity.
On December 14 2013 06:04 Plansix wrote:
more Protoss made it into GM.
Exactly, thats the question to answer! Why are there more Protoss in GM than their share in the playerpool would justify?
On December 14 2013 06:04 Plansix wrote:
Why do Terran throw down with this stat every time they don't have anything else to argue?
Because statistics are pretty good evidence in most cases. I mean, you could just lick your finger, put it in the air and state: The wind says everything is balanced. But i personally thinks stats are a better foundation to draw conclusions from.
On December 14 2013 06:04 Plansix wrote:
Do you see zergs breaking this thing out all the time?
I don't see the relevance of this topic for the discussion.
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On December 14 2013 06:20 Hider wrote:Quoting Dear Show nested quote +
There’s a lot of variability in the mirror matchup, and after the most recent patch I don’t feel like I understand the match-up at all.
One could interpret variability as coinflipness.
Or the patch changed the match up so much he needs to relearn it.
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On December 14 2013 06:13 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +When was the last time you saw a "top foreign Terran" play a top Korean Protoss in the first place? Most of these foreign Terrans are just like Sjow... they're the types of players that complain about region locking and PvT imba and all that stuff. There are two foreign players that stand out miles above the rest. I don't think it's by accident. They obviously are the hardest workers out there. You got the causality the completely wrong way. There aren't many foreign terrans because of balance issues. For some reason you just assumed that terrans per definition is worse less hardworking players that likes to whine, and that's why we should expect them to perform worse. That seemed like a quite bias'ed argument by you.
Why would balance issues weed out foreign Terrans but not Korean Terrans?
It's because Korean Terrans (and Protoss, and Zerg) train much harder. They're not born witha genetic predisposition to Starcraft.
Meanwhile, foreign Terrans constantly bitch and whine about how imba P is. Sjow does it. Avilo does it. ALL YOUR FRIENDS DO IT.
The phrase "Protoss imba" is the worst thing that ever happened to foreign Terrans. It needs to go away.
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On December 14 2013 06:23 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 06:13 Hider wrote:When was the last time you saw a "top foreign Terran" play a top Korean Protoss in the first place? Most of these foreign Terrans are just like Sjow... they're the types of players that complain about region locking and PvT imba and all that stuff. There are two foreign players that stand out miles above the rest. I don't think it's by accident. They obviously are the hardest workers out there. You got the causality the completely wrong way. There aren't many foreign terrans because of balance issues. For some reason you just assumed that terrans per definition is worse less hardworking players that likes to whine, and that's why we should expect them to perform worse. That seemed like a quite bias'ed argument by you. Why would balance issues weed out foreign Terrans but not Korean Terrans? It's because Korean Terrans (and Protoss, and Zerg) train much harder. They're not born witha genetic predisposition to Starcraft. Meanwhile, foreign Terrans constantly bitch and whine about how imba P is. Sjow does it. Avilo does it. ALL YOUR FRIENDS DO IT. It needs to stop.
Friends don't let friends whine about balance.
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Why finns are so good in PvP? I have asked many fellow finnish protoss players and they say same.
Most finnish players say that their best matchup is PvP, like elfi, Welmu and many more...me!
I have always loved PvP coz I understand 100% matchup and nothing imba will beat me. I always aim for macro games. Even when it was 4gate vs 4gate I almost never did 4gate.
PvP is just so straight forward
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On December 14 2013 06:25 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 06:23 DinoMight wrote:On December 14 2013 06:13 Hider wrote:When was the last time you saw a "top foreign Terran" play a top Korean Protoss in the first place? Most of these foreign Terrans are just like Sjow... they're the types of players that complain about region locking and PvT imba and all that stuff. There are two foreign players that stand out miles above the rest. I don't think it's by accident. They obviously are the hardest workers out there. You got the causality the completely wrong way. There aren't many foreign terrans because of balance issues. For some reason you just assumed that terrans per definition is worse less hardworking players that likes to whine, and that's why we should expect them to perform worse. That seemed like a quite bias'ed argument by you. Why would balance issues weed out foreign Terrans but not Korean Terrans? It's because Korean Terrans (and Protoss, and Zerg) train much harder. They're not born witha genetic predisposition to Starcraft. Meanwhile, foreign Terrans constantly bitch and whine about how imba P is. Sjow does it. Avilo does it. ALL YOUR FRIENDS DO IT. It needs to stop. Friends don't let friends whine about balance.
Hah, then shirts like this wouldn't exist: http://www.brokentier.com/products/adapt-white-tee
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Now we need a good toss to switch to terran for three weeks and get top 50 GM.
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EPT
