EPTeither that or 2 base muta
WCS/Ladder 2014 Season 1 maps - Page 5
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Waise
3165 Posts
either that or 2 base muta | ||
|
ooDi
Canada170 Posts
| ||
|
KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
Also, Alterzim is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too big, imo. Fine for a tournament map every now and then but as a standard ladder map? =/ Oh well, map downvotes will be pretty easy to figure out, I suppose. | ||
|
AxiomBlurr
786 Posts
| ||
|
bduddy
United States1326 Posts
On December 06 2013 08:04 KrazyTrumpet wrote: Seriously, complaining about gold bases in 2013? What, specifically, is your problem with them in general?I thought we were over the stupid gold bases thing...come on =/ Also, Alterzim is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too big, imo. Fine for a tournament map every now and then but as a standard ladder map? =/ Oh well, map downvotes will be pretty easy to figure out, I suppose. Oh, and we better get used to these maps - remember, every single WCS tournament has to use them... | ||
|
Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On December 06 2013 08:14 bduddy wrote: Seriously, complaining about gold bases in 2013? What, specifically, is your problem with them in general? Oh, and we better get used to these maps - remember, every single WCS tournament has to use them... Gold bases disproportionately favour terran. It's really fucking weird to give terran a random boost on a single map for no reason. | ||
|
Comadevil
Germany214 Posts
On December 06 2013 08:19 Squat wrote: Gold bases disproportionately favour terran. It's really fucking weird to give terran a random boost on a single map for no reason. Why? Mules collect gold mineralas at the same rate as blue minerals in contrast to normal workers | ||
|
dani`
Netherlands2402 Posts
On December 06 2013 08:19 Squat wrote: Gold bases disproportionately favour terran. It's really fucking weird to give terran a random boost on a single map for no reason. MULEs on gold bases were patched a long time ago, I believe. Not exactly sure but I think a MULE on gold now yields the exact same as a MULE on blue or something, someone can correct me here if I'm wrong. Therefore, if that's indeed the case, Terran is actually relatively weaker with gold bases in play than other races since they cannot use their macro mechanic (MULE) to its full extent on it while Protoss (Chrono mass Probes to it) and Zerg (mass produce Drones) can. | ||
|
PVJ
Hungary5221 Posts
| ||
|
Ravomat
Germany422 Posts
Okayish mappool until here, I'm pretty sure the GSL map is going to be decent at least but I'm not thrilled about a Blizzard rush map, at all. | ||
|
JimmyJRaynor
Canada16711 Posts
"New rush map - We also would like to try a rush map in a slightly different fashion than before. Our goal here is to create a map where the main to main distance is standard, nat to nat is only very slightly shorter, but due to it being really open, aggression is preferred. The map as a whole feels fairly standard but the action just happens much faster." this is just fucking awesome and David Kim's stated policy is fucking great. i'm still very happy with support for SC2. | ||
|
SidianTheBard
United States2474 Posts
Other than Neo planet we haven't really seen much of gold bases in HOTS so you can't 100% translate the experience over. Tanks were much stronger against Zerg in WoL and most of the gold base maps had it in a strictly center location like Antiga or Metalopolis where it allowed you to defend your whole half of the map without ever moving your tanks. This one allows you to defend 3 bases, but you'll mine those bases out faster, and be in pretty rough shape to take a 4th afterwards unless you successfully leverage your gold base for a big advantage. And the distance between 3rd and natural would require a big spread to cover runbys/counter attacks from the south. All in all I think the notion that gold bases didn't work in WoL is just not enough to say they don't work in HOTS, especially when the attempts to include them were quite poor in WoL. Another thing to think about is that yes Zerg doesn't benefit from the gold base as much as Terran, but I believe if Zerg takes the gold as a fast 3rd they'll be able to use that extra income early game to either make more army, more queens, more spines/spores and thus be able to defend easier. I completely agree that as a 5th or 6th base the gold is completely worthless for a zerg because at that point you're more starved for gas, but to be able to get that huge income burst early game will only help you out that much more. The placement of the Gold bases as well as HoTS bringing many more harassment opportunities makes me believe the gold base won't be as "terran-favored" as everyone states. Think about fungals from behind the gold base completely wrecking the mineral line, or brood lords sitting in the open air space raining hell, or mutas ping-ponging to the gold & main like in the Bomber vs Scarlett series, or swarm hosts sitting at the watch tower throwing waves at the gold and waves at the natural. We'll probably see cool forcefield walls like Parting did to stop mining, more storm drops, tempest rushes, maybe we see more siege tank play (fuck yea!) Hell, maybe even nukes! Yamato cannon? The possibilities we could see on Habitation Station get me excited. | ||
|
Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On December 06 2013 08:27 dani` wrote: MULEs on gold bases were patched a long time ago, I believe. Not exactly sure but I think a MULE on gold now yields the exact same as a MULE on blue or something, someone can correct me here if I'm wrong. Therefore, if that's indeed the case, Terran is actually relatively weaker with gold bases in play than other races since they cannot use their macro mechanic (MULE) to its full extent on it while Protoss (Chrono mass Probes to it) and Zerg (mass produce Drones) can. MULEs have nothing to do with it. Terran bio is way more mineral dependent than zerg and protoss, extra mineral income benefits them more. Whenever people say that because mules on gold were fixed there is no imbalance with gold bases anymore, it makes my brain hurt. | ||
|
juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
| ||
|
Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
Also loving the addition of Habitation Station. The games played on it were incredible. | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
On December 06 2013 08:56 Squat wrote: MULEs have nothing to do with it. Terran bio is way more mineral dependent than zerg and protoss, extra mineral income benefits them more. Whenever people say that because mules on gold were fixed there is no imbalance with gold bases anymore, it makes my brain hurt. Dunno how you can say MULEs have nothing to do with it when dani` just gave a valid reason why MULEs being a key part of a terran's economy actually mitigates the benefit of a gold base. Also, a gold base complicates MULE management and typical mineral mine-out timings, problems that zerg and protoss don't have. As for dani`'s idea that protoss and zerg's increased worker production has synergy with gold bases, I don't really see it. The point of gold bases is that they require less total workers and they also reduce the disadvantage of having less workers before saturation is achieved. As long as the gold base is instantly saturated when it finishes (leaving old blue bases undersaturated and receiving newly built workers), the gold base should actually benefit the lower worker player more. Keep in mind that when fully saturated, a 6 patch gold expansion is only a ~5% increase in mining compared to an 8 patch blue expansion. Adding the other bases' patches in a standard 3 base economy, the gold is proving only a ~1.5% increase in mineral income by workers. (Add in the extra income from MULEs and that percent increase shrinks even more). So the way a gold expansion really helps is by providing extra minerals when undersaturated, as if you had 5 more workers. It's a brief boost in mineral income that shrinks as worker saturation gets close to full. How it affects each game will come down to so many details. It's really impossible to say that it'll benefit terran in every situation. Keep in mind that protoss and zerg hardly ever take their 5th and 6th gases as fast as they could, meaning the first purpose of a 3rd base is to increase mineral income, to which the gold base contributes. This dependence on minerals at this particular time is the only thing that's really relevant to the discussion. Saying that terran typically builds a more mineral-hungry composition is far too vague and broad, and is really referencing a long term increase in mineral income anyway, which the gold base doesn't provide. | ||
|
danmanjones
New Zealand19 Posts
 | ||
|
NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
Seriously though; I really dont like the current map-pool and i cant say that Id be very happy with a new one either. | ||
|
Yorkie
United States12612 Posts
| ||
|
seak99
Canada69 Posts
| ||
| ||
