On December 06 2013 06:10 SidianTheBard wrote: So excited!!
We haven't really seen a map with Gold Bases that is actually obtainable since...Metalopolis? I know Neo Planet had them but let's be honest, how often could you actually take them.
I'll be honest with you guys, PvZ does worry me a bit on Habitation Station but I believe It'll be interesting for Zergs because you either take the early gold which means you need less drones and that means you can make an earlier army / more queens / more spines and be able to defend the 2 base all-in easier or you take the regular 3rd which has a tooooon of surface area. I also believe Zergs have a ton of options, with all the air space mutas/brood lords can be strong, the ramps make banelings/infestors good and I'd be interested to see swarm host play because you could probably force the player away from their gold and slowly take it out. Let's not even mention how great counter-attacks / flanking can be on the map.
Either way, I hope you guys give it a chance and if anybody has any feedback I'd love to hear it, either here or in a PM!
After seeing Scarlett vs sOs, I would like to know how can a Zerg defend the tempest build on Habitation Station...I think Tempest is OP vs Zerg in this map.
1. Considering the close distance between 2 gold, tempest could easily retreat. 2. There is even no place for ground army to attack tempest. 3. The ramps of nature and gold mine are so close, so that P can just put stalkers there. Once Zerg's mutas or corruptors chase tempest to gold, just manoeuvre those stalkers up the ramp. 4. Protoss do not even need 4th base to support tempest build, because they have gold. - Scarlett constantly did zerg run-by to sOs 4th base, but it just did not matter.
T have battle cruisers, but they do not have long range attack ability. Z have broodlords, but they can not attack air unit. So they can still be counter-attacked on this map. But tempest have both. How do tempest get eliminated with this short distance between 2 gold.... in an air battle?!
On December 06 2013 06:10 SidianTheBard wrote: So excited!!
We haven't really seen a map with Gold Bases that is actually obtainable since...Metalopolis? I know Neo Planet had them but let's be honest, how often could you actually take them.
I'll be honest with you guys, PvZ does worry me a bit on Habitation Station but I believe It'll be interesting for Zergs because you either take the early gold which means you need less drones and that means you can make an earlier army / more queens / more spines and be able to defend the 2 base all-in easier or you take the regular 3rd which has a tooooon of surface area. I also believe Zergs have a ton of options, with all the air space mutas/brood lords can be strong, the ramps make banelings/infestors good and I'd be interested to see swarm host play because you could probably force the player away from their gold and slowly take it out. Let's not even mention how great counter-attacks / flanking can be on the map.
Either way, I hope you guys give it a chance and if anybody has any feedback I'd love to hear it, either here or in a PM!
After seeing Scarlett vs sOs, I would like to know how can a Zerg defend the tempest build on Habitation Station...I think Tempest is OP vs Zerg in this map.
1. Considering the close distance between 2 gold, tempest could easily retreat. 2. There is even no place for ground army to attack tempest. 3. The ramps of nature and gold mine are so close, so that P can just put stalkers there. Once Zerg's mutas or corruptors chase tempest to gold, just manoeuvre those stalkers up the ramp. 4. Protoss do not even need 4th base to support tempest build, because they have gold. - Scarlett constantly did zerg run-by to sOs 4th base, but it just did not matter.
Number 4 makes no sense at all lol. The only real advantage of the gold base is you reach full saturation quicker. Gold and normal bases give you the same income on max saturation.
I really hope news maps won't be that Blink favor maps. Younsu is a pain in the ass for this. The only map that was kinda safe winnable against blink allin was Belshir. Habitation Station is kinda good for defending it.
On December 06 2013 06:10 SidianTheBard wrote: So excited!!
We haven't really seen a map with Gold Bases that is actually obtainable since...Metalopolis? I know Neo Planet had them but let's be honest, how often could you actually take them.
I'll be honest with you guys, PvZ does worry me a bit on Habitation Station but I believe It'll be interesting for Zergs because you either take the early gold which means you need less drones and that means you can make an earlier army / more queens / more spines and be able to defend the 2 base all-in easier or you take the regular 3rd which has a tooooon of surface area. I also believe Zergs have a ton of options, with all the air space mutas/brood lords can be strong, the ramps make banelings/infestors good and I'd be interested to see swarm host play because you could probably force the player away from their gold and slowly take it out. Let's not even mention how great counter-attacks / flanking can be on the map.
Either way, I hope you guys give it a chance and if anybody has any feedback I'd love to hear it, either here or in a PM!
After seeing Scarlett vs sOs, I would like to know how can a Zerg defend the tempest build on Habitation Station...I think Tempest is OP vs Zerg in this map.
1. Considering the close distance between 2 gold, tempest could easily retreat. 2. There is even no place for ground army to attack tempest. 3. The ramps of nature and gold mine are so close, so that P can just put stalkers there. Once Zerg's mutas or corruptors chase tempest to gold, just manoeuvre those stalkers up the ramp. 4. Protoss do not even need 4th base to support tempest build, because they have gold. - Scarlett constantly did zerg run-by to sOs 4th base, but it just did not matter.
Number 4 makes no sense at all lol. The only real advantage of the gold base is you reach full saturation quicker. Gold and normal bases give you the same income on max saturation.
It helps protoss get advantage in earlier stage. Protoss do not need to defend multiple bases in mid-game. Once the gold get mined out, protoss have already lead in their games.
On December 07 2013 12:04 Faust852 wrote: I really hope news maps won't be that Blink favor maps. Younsu is a pain in the ass for this. The only map that was kinda safe winnable against blink allin was Belshir. Habitation Station is kinda good for defending it.
Habitation Station is really easy to defend blink stalkers since there isn't much surface area to blink up into the natural. You are able to blink from the gold to the main, but it's such a long distance that you can only do 3-4 at a time (they just barely reach). Pretty sure it was San who tried blink play on the map and went to blink a ball of ~8 stalkers into the main from the Gold and 1/2 the stalkers couldn't reach, only the 1/2 that were right on the edge.
As for the Tempest build, I think that game would have turned out a lot different is the cannon rush didn't delay so much, if scarlett actually used spines to defend her extra bases (so ~4 zealots wouldn't kill it off) and if she actually teched up past lair. Either way, Scarlett's gold base already had a good chunk of mining on it by the time sOs started to destroy it off. I do think it'll be a very interesting dynamic because Zerg will probably take that Gold asap and try to hold onto it as long as possible before just sacrificing it, although hopefully at that time they have taken control of the whole bottom side of the map.
Either way, isn't it nice to have a map where doing something other then the norm is used? Maybe we'll start to see a lot faster Vipers if toss start to mass Tempests.
On December 07 2013 12:04 Faust852 wrote: I really hope news maps won't be that Blink favor maps. Younsu is a pain in the ass for this. The only map that was kinda safe winnable against blink allin was Belshir. Habitation Station is kinda good for defending it.
Habitation Station is really easy to defend blink stalkers since there isn't much surface area to blink up into the natural. You are able to blink from the gold to the main, but it's such a long distance that you can only do 3-4 at a time (they just barely reach). Pretty sure it was San who tried blink play on the map and went to blink a ball of ~8 stalkers into the main from the Gold and 1/2 the stalkers couldn't reach, only the 1/2 that were right on the edge.
As for the Tempest build, I think that game would have turned out a lot different is the cannon rush didn't delay so much, if scarlett actually used spines to defend her extra bases (so ~4 zealots wouldn't kill it off) and if she actually teched up past lair. Either way, Scarlett's gold base already had a good chunk of mining on it by the time sOs started to destroy it off. I do think it'll be a very interesting dynamic because Zerg will probably take that Gold asap and try to hold onto it as long as possible before just sacrificing it, although hopefully at that time they have taken control of the whole bottom side of the map.
Either way, isn't it nice to have a map where doing something other then the norm is used? Maybe we'll start to see a lot faster Vipers if toss start to mass Tempests.
Well, I have to agree with you on this. We only see 1 tempest build on this map. Might be possible for Zerg to go fast Vipers. Let us see.
This is a nice step in the right direction. Hopefully not every Protoss will go fast Tempest on Habitation gold base map, like sOs did. Can't say I won't miss Belshir Vestige though, maybe the best map of all time :s
On December 07 2013 17:57 ejozl wrote: This is a nice step in the right direction. Hopefully not every Protoss will go fast Tempest on Habitation gold base map, like sOs did. Can't say I won't miss Belshir Vestige though, maybe the best map of all time :s
Even if they do atleast it'd be interesting since this map'd have it's own metagame.
On December 06 2013 08:04 KrazyTrumpet wrote: I thought we were over the stupid gold bases thing...come on =/
Also, Alterzim is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too big, imo. Fine for a tournament map every now and then but as a standard ladder map? =/
Oh well, map downvotes will be pretty easy to figure out, I suppose.
Seriously, complaining about gold bases in 2013? What, specifically, is your problem with them in general?
Oh, and we better get used to these maps - remember, every single WCS tournament has to use them...
Gold bases disproportionately favour terran. It's really fucking weird to give terran a random boost on a single map for no reason.
MULEs on gold bases were patched a long time ago, I believe. Not exactly sure but I think a MULE on gold now yields the exact same as a MULE on blue or something, someone can correct me here if I'm wrong. Therefore, if that's indeed the case, Terran is actually relatively weaker with gold bases in play than other races since they cannot use their macro mechanic (MULE) to its full extent on it while Protoss (Chrono mass Probes to it) and Zerg (mass produce Drones) can.
MULEs have nothing to do with it. Terran bio is way more mineral dependent than zerg and protoss, extra mineral income benefits them more. Whenever people say that because mules on gold were fixed there is no imbalance with gold bases anymore, it makes my brain hurt.
I really think this is completely wrong. Hatcheries/Gateways are only minerals and two of the main units vs T as the races are Zealots and Zerglings which both cost minerals. You still get gas from the bases so what's the problem.
cant wait for Habitation Station, seems so cool i however think Yeounso and Frost are plain and lame, i think its cause i hate maps with snow/grass combination. colors doesnt mix
On December 06 2013 16:56 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: New rush map? Well, they could easily bring back "Stepps of war", cause it had the most of action from the very beggining.
Oh god, how i missing Delta Quadrant, Desert Oasis and Kulas Ravine, good old times
Steps of war would let protoss shoot your base from their base with tempests
On December 06 2013 16:56 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: New rush map? Well, they could easily bring back "Stepps of war", cause it had the most of action from the very beggining.
Oh god, how i missing Delta Quadrant, Desert Oasis and Kulas Ravine, good old times
Steps of war would let protoss should your base from their base with tempests
Also proxy Nexus first into Photon Overcharge harass.
On December 06 2013 16:56 cSc.Dav1oN wrote: New rush map? Well, they could easily bring back "Stepps of war", cause it had the most of action from the very beggining.
Oh god, how i missing Delta Quadrant, Desert Oasis and Kulas Ravine, good old times
Steps of war would let protoss should your base from their base with tempests
Also proxy Nexus first into Photon Overcharge harass.
does anyone know what happened to the map gravesite? it was in the TL map contest and it was cool as hell! like habitat station, i seriously prefer maps that are just cool, not that they are race based or shit like that. when its a cool map i really enjoy playing on it
EPT
