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On November 15 2013 03:44 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 03:35 ffadicted wrote:On November 15 2013 03:26 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:19 TheOne26 wrote:
don't forget the part where if a protoss is not watching their mini map and their oracle starts taking damage (from marines right under them) the increased speed will probably allow them to save it now before it dies. why should their mistakes not go unpunished? meanwhile as terran if you aren't watching the minimap and an oracle is in your mineral line that's 5 scvs dead guaranteed.
the leeway here is just getting out of hand and this applies to so many other areas of the game as well. e.g. if a HT lands a storm its guaranteed damage, if a ghost lands an emp the protoss army can just back away and regen shields. Yeah, the Oracle buff made them so much more forgiving. Yesterday, one Protoss flew one of his Oracles right above 6 of my Marines, still managed to escape alive; another game, the Protoss player flied one of his Oracles near 8 Marines, still survived despite hit & run from my part. Both times, the Oracle would have 100% died pre-patch (at it should from such an oversight). It's the same thing with the MSC, how many times you see a Protoss player not pay any attention to it, then get away at 5 or 10 hit points, with or without Time Warp, because the unit has so many hit points that it doesn't matter. How can one even call those units with 160 or 195 hit points "fragile" is beyond me. If you think about it, they're moving in this direction with most harrassment units, it's not an oracle thing. They did the same thing with reapers, warp prisms, medivacs and mutas. They want these units to stay alive, and I think that's a pretty good direction to head in the game. I disagree. Making things more forgiving is not a good idea because it lowers the skill floor and allows bad/mediocre players to compensate with easier tools.
Well I don't get you guys then. A unit can't be micro'ed that much, everyone complains the ceiling is low and any player can reach maximum micro. You up a unit's micro capabilities, and everyone still complains. There has to be a fine line somewhere, and I think the oracle is closer to it now than it used to be, in my honest opinion.
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On November 15 2013 03:49 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 03:46 mishimaBeef wrote:On November 15 2013 03:44 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:35 ffadicted wrote:On November 15 2013 03:26 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:19 TheOne26 wrote:
don't forget the part where if a protoss is not watching their mini map and their oracle starts taking damage (from marines right under them) the increased speed will probably allow them to save it now before it dies. why should their mistakes not go unpunished? meanwhile as terran if you aren't watching the minimap and an oracle is in your mineral line that's 5 scvs dead guaranteed.
the leeway here is just getting out of hand and this applies to so many other areas of the game as well. e.g. if a HT lands a storm its guaranteed damage, if a ghost lands an emp the protoss army can just back away and regen shields. Yeah, the Oracle buff made them so much more forgiving. Yesterday, one Protoss flew one of his Oracles right above 6 of my Marines, still managed to escape alive; another game, the Protoss player flied one of his Oracles near 8 Marines, still survived despite hit & run from my part. Both times, the Oracle would have 100% died pre-patch (at it should from such an oversight). It's the same thing with the MSC, how many times you see a Protoss player not pay any attention to it, then get away at 5 or 10 hit points, with or without Time Warp, because the unit has so many hit points that it doesn't matter. How can one even call those units with 160 or 195 hit points "fragile" is beyond me. If you think about it, they're moving in this direction with most harrassment units, it's not an oracle thing. They did the same thing with reapers, warp prisms, medivacs and mutas. They want these units to stay alive, and I think that's a pretty good direction to head in the game. I disagree. Making things more forgiving is not a good idea because it lowers the skill floor and allows bad/mediocre players to compensate with easier tools. ??? What is your question?
Why does more harassment ability make things more forgiving?
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On November 15 2013 03:36 TT1 wrote:
worst balance patch since the release of sc2
I don't know about that. While this is a garbage patch, I think the queen patch is worse.
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On November 15 2013 03:49 ffadicted wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 03:44 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:35 ffadicted wrote:On November 15 2013 03:26 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:19 TheOne26 wrote:
don't forget the part where if a protoss is not watching their mini map and their oracle starts taking damage (from marines right under them) the increased speed will probably allow them to save it now before it dies. why should their mistakes not go unpunished? meanwhile as terran if you aren't watching the minimap and an oracle is in your mineral line that's 5 scvs dead guaranteed.
the leeway here is just getting out of hand and this applies to so many other areas of the game as well. e.g. if a HT lands a storm its guaranteed damage, if a ghost lands an emp the protoss army can just back away and regen shields. Yeah, the Oracle buff made them so much more forgiving. Yesterday, one Protoss flew one of his Oracles right above 6 of my Marines, still managed to escape alive; another game, the Protoss player flied one of his Oracles near 8 Marines, still survived despite hit & run from my part. Both times, the Oracle would have 100% died pre-patch (at it should from such an oversight). It's the same thing with the MSC, how many times you see a Protoss player not pay any attention to it, then get away at 5 or 10 hit points, with or without Time Warp, because the unit has so many hit points that it doesn't matter. How can one even call those units with 160 or 195 hit points "fragile" is beyond me. If you think about it, they're moving in this direction with most harrassment units, it's not an oracle thing. They did the same thing with reapers, warp prisms, medivacs and mutas. They want these units to stay alive, and I think that's a pretty good direction to head in the game. I disagree. Making things more forgiving is not a good idea because it lowers the skill floor and allows bad/mediocre players to compensate with easier tools. Well I don't get you guys then. A unit can't be micro'ed that much, everyone complains the ceiling is low and any player can reach maximum micro. You up a unit's micro capabilities, and everyone still complains. There has to be a fine line somewhere, and I think the oracle is closer to it now than it used to be, in my honest opinion.
It would be fine if there was an equivalent where you micro just as good and its a fun battle but right now its much like having a Ferrari Enzo in a bicycle race..........
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On November 15 2013 03:49 ffadicted wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 03:44 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:35 ffadicted wrote:On November 15 2013 03:26 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:19 TheOne26 wrote:
don't forget the part where if a protoss is not watching their mini map and their oracle starts taking damage (from marines right under them) the increased speed will probably allow them to save it now before it dies. why should their mistakes not go unpunished? meanwhile as terran if you aren't watching the minimap and an oracle is in your mineral line that's 5 scvs dead guaranteed.
the leeway here is just getting out of hand and this applies to so many other areas of the game as well. e.g. if a HT lands a storm its guaranteed damage, if a ghost lands an emp the protoss army can just back away and regen shields. Yeah, the Oracle buff made them so much more forgiving. Yesterday, one Protoss flew one of his Oracles right above 6 of my Marines, still managed to escape alive; another game, the Protoss player flied one of his Oracles near 8 Marines, still survived despite hit & run from my part. Both times, the Oracle would have 100% died pre-patch (at it should from such an oversight). It's the same thing with the MSC, how many times you see a Protoss player not pay any attention to it, then get away at 5 or 10 hit points, with or without Time Warp, because the unit has so many hit points that it doesn't matter. How can one even call those units with 160 or 195 hit points "fragile" is beyond me. If you think about it, they're moving in this direction with most harrassment units, it's not an oracle thing. They did the same thing with reapers, warp prisms, medivacs and mutas. They want these units to stay alive, and I think that's a pretty good direction to head in the game. I disagree. Making things more forgiving is not a good idea because it lowers the skill floor and allows bad/mediocre players to compensate with easier tools. Well I don't get you guys then. A unit can't be micro'ed that much, everyone complains the ceiling is low and any player can reach maximum micro. You up a unit's micro capabilities, and everyone still complains. There has to be a fine line somewhere, and I think the oracle is closer to it now than it used to be, in my honest opinion.
You're talking about ease of micro not the unit's ability to micro. For example, the micro capacity of the colossus is very low because it's slow and unresponsive. The microability of a chargelot is very low because it automatically charges as long as it's in range.
The oracle was reasonably microable, it was faster than most units, it did damage fast, it required micro to not slow down (it had slow acc.) and it required micro to keep it alive. For example, sOs's oracles were much scarier than your usual player's. But now, you don't need to micro it as much as it escapes harm easier. The ease of micro increased in that it can fly into range of anti-air and escape without losing too many HP. It can also stop in range of anti-air, but with faster acceleration, it doesn't matter, you can still start moving again and escape in time. On the conceptual level, it's like giving mutas some ability that allows 20 mutas to do equal damage to a unit whether they are clumped or not (I call it the chain-mutanator).
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On November 15 2013 03:58 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 03:49 ffadicted wrote:On November 15 2013 03:44 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:35 ffadicted wrote:On November 15 2013 03:26 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:19 TheOne26 wrote:
don't forget the part where if a protoss is not watching their mini map and their oracle starts taking damage (from marines right under them) the increased speed will probably allow them to save it now before it dies. why should their mistakes not go unpunished? meanwhile as terran if you aren't watching the minimap and an oracle is in your mineral line that's 5 scvs dead guaranteed.
the leeway here is just getting out of hand and this applies to so many other areas of the game as well. e.g. if a HT lands a storm its guaranteed damage, if a ghost lands an emp the protoss army can just back away and regen shields. Yeah, the Oracle buff made them so much more forgiving. Yesterday, one Protoss flew one of his Oracles right above 6 of my Marines, still managed to escape alive; another game, the Protoss player flied one of his Oracles near 8 Marines, still survived despite hit & run from my part. Both times, the Oracle would have 100% died pre-patch (at it should from such an oversight). It's the same thing with the MSC, how many times you see a Protoss player not pay any attention to it, then get away at 5 or 10 hit points, with or without Time Warp, because the unit has so many hit points that it doesn't matter. How can one even call those units with 160 or 195 hit points "fragile" is beyond me. If you think about it, they're moving in this direction with most harrassment units, it's not an oracle thing. They did the same thing with reapers, warp prisms, medivacs and mutas. They want these units to stay alive, and I think that's a pretty good direction to head in the game. I disagree. Making things more forgiving is not a good idea because it lowers the skill floor and allows bad/mediocre players to compensate with easier tools. Well I don't get you guys then. A unit can't be micro'ed that much, everyone complains the ceiling is low and any player can reach maximum micro. You up a unit's micro capabilities, and everyone still complains. There has to be a fine line somewhere, and I think the oracle is closer to it now than it used to be, in my honest opinion. You're talking about ease of micro not the unit's ability to micro. For example, the micro capacity of the colossus is very low because it's slow and unresponsive. The microability of a chargelot is very low because it automatically charges as long as it's in range.
Just a tip. After this sentence: "You're talking about ease of micro not the unit's ability to micro", it would be nice if you actually used these terms and explained them more instead of introducing new terms like "micro capacity" and "microability".
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On November 15 2013 03:47 iaguz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 03:36 TT1 wrote:
worst balance patch since the release of sc2 I agree oracles need to be faster.
agreed and someone needs to teach you how to gg kiddo
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On November 15 2013 04:01 mishimaBeef wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 03:58 Ghanburighan wrote:On November 15 2013 03:49 ffadicted wrote:On November 15 2013 03:44 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:35 ffadicted wrote:On November 15 2013 03:26 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:19 TheOne26 wrote:
don't forget the part where if a protoss is not watching their mini map and their oracle starts taking damage (from marines right under them) the increased speed will probably allow them to save it now before it dies. why should their mistakes not go unpunished? meanwhile as terran if you aren't watching the minimap and an oracle is in your mineral line that's 5 scvs dead guaranteed.
the leeway here is just getting out of hand and this applies to so many other areas of the game as well. e.g. if a HT lands a storm its guaranteed damage, if a ghost lands an emp the protoss army can just back away and regen shields. Yeah, the Oracle buff made them so much more forgiving. Yesterday, one Protoss flew one of his Oracles right above 6 of my Marines, still managed to escape alive; another game, the Protoss player flied one of his Oracles near 8 Marines, still survived despite hit & run from my part. Both times, the Oracle would have 100% died pre-patch (at it should from such an oversight). It's the same thing with the MSC, how many times you see a Protoss player not pay any attention to it, then get away at 5 or 10 hit points, with or without Time Warp, because the unit has so many hit points that it doesn't matter. How can one even call those units with 160 or 195 hit points "fragile" is beyond me. If you think about it, they're moving in this direction with most harrassment units, it's not an oracle thing. They did the same thing with reapers, warp prisms, medivacs and mutas. They want these units to stay alive, and I think that's a pretty good direction to head in the game. I disagree. Making things more forgiving is not a good idea because it lowers the skill floor and allows bad/mediocre players to compensate with easier tools. Well I don't get you guys then. A unit can't be micro'ed that much, everyone complains the ceiling is low and any player can reach maximum micro. You up a unit's micro capabilities, and everyone still complains. There has to be a fine line somewhere, and I think the oracle is closer to it now than it used to be, in my honest opinion. You're talking about ease of micro not the unit's ability to micro. For example, the micro capacity of the colossus is very low because it's slow and unresponsive. The microability of a chargelot is very low because it automatically charges as long as it's in range. Just a tip. After this sentence: "You're talking about ease of micro not the unit's ability to micro", it would be nice if you actually used these terms and explained them more instead of introducing new terms like "micro capacity" and "microability".
I thought Microability would suggest I meant a unit's micro ability  Someone just wrote in this thread that we should not use the same word repeatedly...
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France19747 Posts
On November 15 2013 03:49 ffadicted wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 03:44 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:35 ffadicted wrote:On November 15 2013 03:26 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:19 TheOne26 wrote:
don't forget the part where if a protoss is not watching their mini map and their oracle starts taking damage (from marines right under them) the increased speed will probably allow them to save it now before it dies. why should their mistakes not go unpunished? meanwhile as terran if you aren't watching the minimap and an oracle is in your mineral line that's 5 scvs dead guaranteed.
the leeway here is just getting out of hand and this applies to so many other areas of the game as well. e.g. if a HT lands a storm its guaranteed damage, if a ghost lands an emp the protoss army can just back away and regen shields. Yeah, the Oracle buff made them so much more forgiving. Yesterday, one Protoss flew one of his Oracles right above 6 of my Marines, still managed to escape alive; another game, the Protoss player flied one of his Oracles near 8 Marines, still survived despite hit & run from my part. Both times, the Oracle would have 100% died pre-patch (at it should from such an oversight). It's the same thing with the MSC, how many times you see a Protoss player not pay any attention to it, then get away at 5 or 10 hit points, with or without Time Warp, because the unit has so many hit points that it doesn't matter. How can one even call those units with 160 or 195 hit points "fragile" is beyond me. If you think about it, they're moving in this direction with most harrassment units, it's not an oracle thing. They did the same thing with reapers, warp prisms, medivacs and mutas. They want these units to stay alive, and I think that's a pretty good direction to head in the game. I disagree. Making things more forgiving is not a good idea because it lowers the skill floor and allows bad/mediocre players to compensate with easier tools. Well I don't get you guys then. A unit can't be micro'ed that much, everyone complains the ceiling is low and any player can reach maximum micro. You up a unit's micro capabilities, and everyone still complains. There has to be a fine line somewhere, and I think the oracle is closer to it now than it used to be, in my honest opinion.
The Oracle could be micro'ed pre-patch, and there was already a clear difference between an average high master and a pro managing them; I can tell you that from first-hand experience. The line was already fine regarding microability.
And yes, too much microability can be detrimental if it results in something being too strong, especially if it leaves the opposing player powerless to do something against it with the basic tools he has. Imagine a Banshee having an instant turn rate and damage point with its current 6 range and 2x12 damage, what could an opponent do with Marines to stop it? Nothing. Turrets or a Viking would be forced, thus limiting the options of the defending player. This would mean that suddenly, a lot of openings which only have Marines to defend Banshees would be made completely unviable. (Just an example.)
As a side note, this simple example shows why the philosophy of "buffs are better by nerfs" is hollow. A buff can kill a lot of options and variety, while a nerf can open some.
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On November 15 2013 04:06 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 03:47 iaguz wrote:On November 15 2013 03:36 TT1 wrote:
worst balance patch since the release of sc2 I agree oracles need to be faster. agreed and someone needs to teach you how to gg kiddo
You are not a specialist on that field either
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France19747 Posts
On November 15 2013 03:50 mishimaBeef wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 03:49 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:46 mishimaBeef wrote:On November 15 2013 03:44 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:35 ffadicted wrote:On November 15 2013 03:26 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:19 TheOne26 wrote:
don't forget the part where if a protoss is not watching their mini map and their oracle starts taking damage (from marines right under them) the increased speed will probably allow them to save it now before it dies. why should their mistakes not go unpunished? meanwhile as terran if you aren't watching the minimap and an oracle is in your mineral line that's 5 scvs dead guaranteed.
the leeway here is just getting out of hand and this applies to so many other areas of the game as well. e.g. if a HT lands a storm its guaranteed damage, if a ghost lands an emp the protoss army can just back away and regen shields. Yeah, the Oracle buff made them so much more forgiving. Yesterday, one Protoss flew one of his Oracles right above 6 of my Marines, still managed to escape alive; another game, the Protoss player flied one of his Oracles near 8 Marines, still survived despite hit & run from my part. Both times, the Oracle would have 100% died pre-patch (at it should from such an oversight). It's the same thing with the MSC, how many times you see a Protoss player not pay any attention to it, then get away at 5 or 10 hit points, with or without Time Warp, because the unit has so many hit points that it doesn't matter. How can one even call those units with 160 or 195 hit points "fragile" is beyond me. If you think about it, they're moving in this direction with most harrassment units, it's not an oracle thing. They did the same thing with reapers, warp prisms, medivacs and mutas. They want these units to stay alive, and I think that's a pretty good direction to head in the game. I disagree. Making things more forgiving is not a good idea because it lowers the skill floor and allows bad/mediocre players to compensate with easier tools. ??? What is your question? Why does more harassment ability make things more forgiving?
The forgiving aspect does not come from the fact Oracles are better at harassing, it comes from the fact the Protoss player is less punished for control mistakes because the unit is faster and more responsive (and thus can escape more easily if flying over wrong locations). Just like muta regen simultaneously made mutas better for harass AND more forgiving.
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On November 15 2013 04:06 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 04:01 mishimaBeef wrote:On November 15 2013 03:58 Ghanburighan wrote:On November 15 2013 03:49 ffadicted wrote:On November 15 2013 03:44 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:35 ffadicted wrote:On November 15 2013 03:26 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:19 TheOne26 wrote:
don't forget the part where if a protoss is not watching their mini map and their oracle starts taking damage (from marines right under them) the increased speed will probably allow them to save it now before it dies. why should their mistakes not go unpunished? meanwhile as terran if you aren't watching the minimap and an oracle is in your mineral line that's 5 scvs dead guaranteed.
the leeway here is just getting out of hand and this applies to so many other areas of the game as well. e.g. if a HT lands a storm its guaranteed damage, if a ghost lands an emp the protoss army can just back away and regen shields. Yeah, the Oracle buff made them so much more forgiving. Yesterday, one Protoss flew one of his Oracles right above 6 of my Marines, still managed to escape alive; another game, the Protoss player flied one of his Oracles near 8 Marines, still survived despite hit & run from my part. Both times, the Oracle would have 100% died pre-patch (at it should from such an oversight). It's the same thing with the MSC, how many times you see a Protoss player not pay any attention to it, then get away at 5 or 10 hit points, with or without Time Warp, because the unit has so many hit points that it doesn't matter. How can one even call those units with 160 or 195 hit points "fragile" is beyond me. If you think about it, they're moving in this direction with most harrassment units, it's not an oracle thing. They did the same thing with reapers, warp prisms, medivacs and mutas. They want these units to stay alive, and I think that's a pretty good direction to head in the game. I disagree. Making things more forgiving is not a good idea because it lowers the skill floor and allows bad/mediocre players to compensate with easier tools. Well I don't get you guys then. A unit can't be micro'ed that much, everyone complains the ceiling is low and any player can reach maximum micro. You up a unit's micro capabilities, and everyone still complains. There has to be a fine line somewhere, and I think the oracle is closer to it now than it used to be, in my honest opinion. You're talking about ease of micro not the unit's ability to micro. For example, the micro capacity of the colossus is very low because it's slow and unresponsive. The microability of a chargelot is very low because it automatically charges as long as it's in range. Just a tip. After this sentence: "You're talking about ease of micro not the unit's ability to micro", it would be nice if you actually used these terms and explained them more instead of introducing new terms like "micro capacity" and "microability". Someone just wrote in this thread that we should not use the same word repeatedly...
That is bad advice. When you are making an argument, it helps to make it as clear as possible. If your writing is messy, disorganized or unclear it is more likely that people will not listen to your argument or may not properly understand it.
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On November 15 2013 04:06 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 03:47 iaguz wrote:On November 15 2013 03:36 TT1 wrote:
worst balance patch since the release of sc2 I agree oracles need to be faster. agreed and someone needs to teach you how to gg kiddo
Please teach me manner oh wise one.
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On November 15 2013 04:08 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 04:06 TT1 wrote:On November 15 2013 03:47 iaguz wrote:On November 15 2013 03:36 TT1 wrote:
worst balance patch since the release of sc2 I agree oracles need to be faster. agreed and someone needs to teach you how to gg kiddo You are not a specialist on that field either
i would hang myself if i ever lost vs a b- bw scrub such as urself, pretty sure every ex bw player knows how big of a douchebag u are. cant comment much on the eu sc2 scene
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On November 15 2013 04:11 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 03:50 mishimaBeef wrote:On November 15 2013 03:49 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:46 mishimaBeef wrote:On November 15 2013 03:44 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:35 ffadicted wrote:On November 15 2013 03:26 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:19 TheOne26 wrote:
don't forget the part where if a protoss is not watching their mini map and their oracle starts taking damage (from marines right under them) the increased speed will probably allow them to save it now before it dies. why should their mistakes not go unpunished? meanwhile as terran if you aren't watching the minimap and an oracle is in your mineral line that's 5 scvs dead guaranteed.
the leeway here is just getting out of hand and this applies to so many other areas of the game as well. e.g. if a HT lands a storm its guaranteed damage, if a ghost lands an emp the protoss army can just back away and regen shields. Yeah, the Oracle buff made them so much more forgiving. Yesterday, one Protoss flew one of his Oracles right above 6 of my Marines, still managed to escape alive; another game, the Protoss player flied one of his Oracles near 8 Marines, still survived despite hit & run from my part. Both times, the Oracle would have 100% died pre-patch (at it should from such an oversight). It's the same thing with the MSC, how many times you see a Protoss player not pay any attention to it, then get away at 5 or 10 hit points, with or without Time Warp, because the unit has so many hit points that it doesn't matter. How can one even call those units with 160 or 195 hit points "fragile" is beyond me. If you think about it, they're moving in this direction with most harrassment units, it's not an oracle thing. They did the same thing with reapers, warp prisms, medivacs and mutas. They want these units to stay alive, and I think that's a pretty good direction to head in the game. I disagree. Making things more forgiving is not a good idea because it lowers the skill floor and allows bad/mediocre players to compensate with easier tools. ??? What is your question? Why does more harassment ability make things more forgiving? The forgiving aspect does not come from the fact Oracles are better at harassing, it comes from the fact the Protoss player is less punished for control mistakes because the unit is faster and more responsive (and thus can escape more easily if flying over wrong locations). Just like muta regen simultaneously made mutas better for harass AND more forgiving.
Fair enough. Defending players will find it less forgiving though. Remember when speedvacs were new.
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On November 15 2013 04:14 TT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 04:08 NarutO wrote:On November 15 2013 04:06 TT1 wrote:On November 15 2013 03:47 iaguz wrote:On November 15 2013 03:36 TT1 wrote:
worst balance patch since the release of sc2 I agree oracles need to be faster. agreed and someone needs to teach you how to gg kiddo You are not a specialist on that field either i would hang myself if i ever lost vs a b- bw scrub such as urself, pretty sure every ex bw player knows how big of a douchebag u are. cant comment much on the eu sc2 scene
First of all, you already did lose to me. Secondly in Broodwar. Third, I was A-. Furthermore never used hacks and I am pretty sure while I was a flamer, I never really was a douchebag like yourself. If you could use proper English on Teamliquid that would be nice as well!
PS: We also used to be on the same team in Starcraft 2 in which you didn't gg either as well as on ladder. Keep dissing people for stuff you don't do to begin with. Nicely done!
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Seriously we don't need your drama to get in the way of the Real Drama part of SC2 David kim buffing things that don't make sense thread 
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On November 15 2013 04:11 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 03:50 mishimaBeef wrote:On November 15 2013 03:49 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:46 mishimaBeef wrote:On November 15 2013 03:44 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:35 ffadicted wrote:On November 15 2013 03:26 TheDwf wrote:On November 15 2013 03:19 TheOne26 wrote:
don't forget the part where if a protoss is not watching their mini map and their oracle starts taking damage (from marines right under them) the increased speed will probably allow them to save it now before it dies. why should their mistakes not go unpunished? meanwhile as terran if you aren't watching the minimap and an oracle is in your mineral line that's 5 scvs dead guaranteed.
the leeway here is just getting out of hand and this applies to so many other areas of the game as well. e.g. if a HT lands a storm its guaranteed damage, if a ghost lands an emp the protoss army can just back away and regen shields. Yeah, the Oracle buff made them so much more forgiving. Yesterday, one Protoss flew one of his Oracles right above 6 of my Marines, still managed to escape alive; another game, the Protoss player flied one of his Oracles near 8 Marines, still survived despite hit & run from my part. Both times, the Oracle would have 100% died pre-patch (at it should from such an oversight). It's the same thing with the MSC, how many times you see a Protoss player not pay any attention to it, then get away at 5 or 10 hit points, with or without Time Warp, because the unit has so many hit points that it doesn't matter. How can one even call those units with 160 or 195 hit points "fragile" is beyond me. If you think about it, they're moving in this direction with most harrassment units, it's not an oracle thing. They did the same thing with reapers, warp prisms, medivacs and mutas. They want these units to stay alive, and I think that's a pretty good direction to head in the game. I disagree. Making things more forgiving is not a good idea because it lowers the skill floor and allows bad/mediocre players to compensate with easier tools. ??? What is your question? Why does more harassment ability make things more forgiving? The forgiving aspect does not come from the fact Oracles are better at harassing, it comes from the fact the Protoss player is less punished for control mistakes because the unit is faster and more responsive (and thus can escape more easily if flying over wrong locations). Just like muta regen simultaneously made mutas better for harass AND more forgiving.
More responsive is generally a good thing and something which should be increased for most units imo (depending of course on how you interpret 'responsive'), faster however is another story.
I now have 70% winrate in tvt, over 50% in tvz and 25-30% in tvp. GG blizzard.
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Yea my winrate is about 75% TvT 60 TvZ and 40 TvP LOL Last season I had an average of 68% across all and my TvP was 53%? somewhere around there LOL
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|
|
|
EPT
