Recently, a Korean journalist met Stork near the Samsung teamhouse. When the journalist told Stork that the interview topic would be 'Truth after drinking', Stork said, "I'm a really good drinker." The journalist and Stork went to a soju bar; even though they did not drink a lot, Stork spoke straightforwardly as always, and told us about issues that we did not understand.
1) Young progamers aren’t like what they were before; they even scolded me
Q: In the past, you were interviewed at your peak; nowadays does it feel rusty to be interviewed? A: Even though I left my position at the top, I still have a desire to win tournaments, so it doesn’t matter. I have already been at many finals, and I still want to enter more, so I cannot retire. But this time I advanced from Code B and met Yoda, and was frustrated again. (laughs)
Q: Recently you entered the individual leagues again after 2 years, were you excited to return to the booth? A: A bit (laughs). I don’t actually know when the fans stopped coming to see my matches; it was a bit lonely. But when I played Yoda, a fan came in a dinosaur suit. I was amazed and yet overwhelmed by feelings.
Q: Nowadays the players you meet in tournaments are all your juniors now, but you still fight. Even if it is not for the fans, you must be feeling different nowadays? A: Yes. But recently a few players have become too disrespectful. In matches, even if you use barcode IDs you can still be recognized. But in a match, a player actually badmouthed me. Of course it does not feel good to get badmouthed. So I asked my teammates who he was, and they told me he was a rookie from a certain team. I was very mad so I demanded him to explain why he badmouthed me: “I am Stork, I am older, I am more experienced, don’t say I am cashing out on my seniority, at least have some respect whether it is offline or online”. But he dared to say, “So what?” I met him later, and talked about that incident again. He actually said that aren’t you very annoying, remembering about this all the time, so I got mad again. Young players have many disrespectful actions like this; it shocks me every time. At least I did not do it when I was young.
Q: Really? That really shocks me. It’s true in your team as well, when Juni and Jangbi left, you are the only one left who is over 25 years old. Does it feel sad? A: I don’t care about these minor things because I am blood type A. I like to go to the convenience store myself, I don’t like to order my juniors around or make fun of them. They aren't afraid of me anyway so I don't feel very comfortable.
Q: Seems like you have a lot of problems. Why don’t you tell us all about it? A: Turn isn’t young in the team, and there aren’t any problems. Apart from this, as a player myself I can understand all my teammates’ problems. Turn has times when he wants to relax, and I should not ask about that. Reality is very obedient, RorO doesn’t chat much at all. Even though Shine always says inappropriate things, he will explain to me afterwards. But the even younger players are giving me trouble. Even if I scold them, when I leave they can laugh immediately. It’s true that from a teammate’s standpoint, no one can scold anyone else, but as a team captain and the senior member, there are things that I must scold about, and there has to be a person to take charge. Maybe I am not good at leading yet. But it’s good that everyone is very obedient. (laughs)
Q: Shouldn’t that be the job of coach Odin? A: Odin is a coach, he can’t deal with all these sentimental issues, and both Jangbi and Juni left. It’s so bad! (laughs)
Q: But you have been captain for so long already, wouldn’t you feel that your juniors will always listen to you? A: When I started being a captain I was very happy. The juniors I don’t know. But when I don’t like it, I will tell them immediately, but the juniors never seem to reflect on their mistakes. But as I just said, they’re pretty obedient now, so there’s nothing more to say.
2) I was once so addicted to World of Warcraft that I tasted the bitterness of failure
Q: It’s been nice talking about SC2, but there is a lot of undisclosed history, including the one time you almost lost your marshall-cap. A: Ah. In 2006, just as the rumours said, I was addicted to World of Warcraft. (laughs) To be honest I started playing in 2005; I went to PC Bang with the Warcraft 3 players on my team, and I started getting addicted there. And then in 2006, I played with the other SC players, but only I got overly addicted. I ran to PC Bang whenever my practice time finished. But I was still no. 1 in my team, so I did not realize how bad it was, until I disappointed my fans. I think of so many things when I start talking about my history… (laughs)
Q: When it comes to signature styles, Stork used Reaver-Carrier (T/N not sure here) while Bisu used Corsair DT. But it’s disappointing that your rivalry has ended. A: Really? I am a fan of creating new openings. Both Reaver-Carrier and Corsair-DT are basic build orders. I know that Corsair-DT was invented by Bisu, but before him, Pusan already used this strategy against Savior. It was unfortunate that he failed. Bisu and Pusan are teammates, so I suppose they shared the strategy. Reaver-Carrier was a pre-existing opening that I use depending on the situation.
Q: But Stork’s Reaver-Carrier also had times when it was badly beaten. I am talking about the finals with Flash. A: 2008 Bacchus OSL? I don’t even want to remember that place. I remember I cried that day. Originally I thought Flash would use a BBS build on Katrina, so I used a counter build that went fast 3rd Nexus, but I lost horribly. I often make excuses for myself so my fans didn’t let me explain. (laughs)
Stork in Proleague
3) Loves to emulate Liquid`HerO in SC2; horrible memories of the terrible SPL results
Q: Let’s return to SC2, your ‘bland’ style has disappeared gradually. It seems very different from in SC1 A: In SC2 I want to emulate Liquid`HerO’s style. I was originally an aggressive player who liked to create all sorts of strategies. The standard strategies already exist, so if I invent some variations, I will have my own style, just like HerO. Actually in practice I just attack constantly, and lose like there is no tomorrow. But in SC2 Protoss is required to defend first, so maybe that is why I lose.
Q: Your SPL results are the worst in TaekBangLeeSsang. Maybe it is because as you said, your transition period was longer. A: Now that I think of it, even when I could not win championships in SC1, I did not do too badly. In SC2 it started out like that as well, but then I started a very long losing streak. Anyway since Bisu has retired, I will eventually overtake him in the most wins category. (laughs)
Q: After seeing Bisu’s retirement, many fans are doubting whether Stork is about to retire. A: I also thought of retiring. Every season after the transition to SC2 I worry about it. When I was a teenager I played this game because I had fun, after I turned 20 I started experiencing many problems and could not focus completely on Starcraft. But even so, I want to fight till the last moment.
Q: Your SPL results this season must be your worst failure in your career. A: This SPL really went badly for me. Even though it was hard, I did not think about resting. I would go into the booth, and then I always lost, and when you lose a lot you want to take a rest. But the head coach always made me play, and so the results looked worse and worse. It’s not only this problem, many personal problems affected me and I even went to see a psychiatrist, it was tough. I won’t disclose the specifics. (laughs)
4) It’s the player’s responsibility for retiring; strongly against Afreeca streaming
Q: Your form hasn’t returned yet, but Jangbi already retired; it must be a huge blow. Are you under a lot of pressure to perform better than in last season? A: I don’t think I can boast about our team’s success after Jangbi retired. He was that important of a player. We don’t need to discuss my results; my confidence has dropped a lot and even the players that I want to learn from have retired. I feel both disappointed and burdened.
Q: So why did the good players retire? A: If e-Sports would become like other sports it would be nice, but it has not. Maybe it is because the players e-Sports are very young, so they need time to adapt to change. They have not fully considered the situation so more and more people are retiring.
On October 31 2013 02:42 OpticalShot wrote: I feel like these doubly-translated threads are baits for the direct translators to come out and clarify... well I'm baited.
Here's the original Korean text and my direct translation for the streaming part.
- 그래도 은퇴한 선수들은 개인방송을 통해서 팬들을 찾고 있잖아요. 인기가 장난이 아니던데, 부럽지는 않아요? ▶ 저는 개인방송에 대해서 굉장히 부정적이거든요. 방송에서 망가지는 모습을 보니까 안타까워요. 조작 사건과 관련된 선수도 방송을 하잖아요. 그러니 더더욱 개인방송에 대해 좋은 인상을 받기가 어렵죠. 저는 프로게이머로서의 프라이드가 강해요. 관중들이 한 둘씩 오는 것이 아니라 몇 만 명씩 와서 환호를 하잖아요. 그런 팬들이 좋아했던 것은 궁극적으로 그 선수의 플레이잖아요. 개인방송을 하는 사람들 중에 일부는 그런 환상을 모두 깨는 동시에, 팬들을 돈으로 보는 행동을 해요. 분명히 대회장에서 보면 정말 멀쩡했거든요. 그런데 돈을 위해 그렇게까지 변한다는 점이 무척 아쉬워요. 순수한 의도면 모를까 돈을 위한 방송은 하지 않았으면 좋겠어요. 물론 안 그런 선수들도 있지만요.
- Still, many retired progamers are interacting with their fans via their personal streams. [These streamers/streams] are quite popular, are you perhaps jealous of them?
▶ My view on those personal streams is very negative. It's sad to see them embarrass themselves in their broadcasts. Besides, even those associated with the matchfixing scandal are streaming, and that makes it even harder to view the streams in a positive light. I take great personal pride in being a progamer. Fans don't come one by one, they come by the tens of thousands to cheer [for the progamers/teams]. For those fans, the core motivation behind their loyalty is the player's skill. Some of the [ex-progamer] streamers shatter those images while broadcasting, and [even do things that show] they treat the fans as money [and nothing more]. All of these guys were perfectly fine before [when I met them / was with them in eSports stadiums/competitions]. That's why it's so disappointing to see these guys turn [into what I described above] just for money. Streaming for [enjoyment of the game, etc.] is fine, but I hope they don't stream for the sole purpose of making money. Of course, not all streamers are like that.
Q: People say that if Stork also became an Afreeca streamer, SC1 tournaments might become popular again. A: Many fans have also been asking me whether I would play Sonic StarLeague. But I am still playing normally as a progamer.
Q: After entering the SC2 era, fans [...] (T/N don’t know what this means). What is wrong with SC2? A: SC1 was fun because every game was different, and it depended on your performance that game. On the contrary, in SC2 each game looks the same. Just turtle till 200 supply and fight. When in a disadvantage, if you could not harass your opponent, you would lose straight-on as well. Maybe that is why even if your favourite team lost, you did not think the opponents played particularly well. But this is all in the standpoint of the viewer. For the progamers, both SC1 and SC2 are meaningful. They have to work hard and prepare for all the competitions and prove themselves with results.
Q: You said that SC2 was fun, but it still has not become mainstream. A: Even if I say this, the public will still not be interested in SC2. So I think it’s the fault of the players. There are also other reasons, but not attracting views is the fault of the players. There is not enough showmanship. SKT has made much effort in providing entertainment, but other teams do not even think about it. Players must let other people understand that this game is entertaining to watch. No fan is obliged to watch or play SC2, but they will be interested in certain players. These players play well to attract fans, but because not every match can be epic on its own right, players must also entertain the audience. Before, there were many players who would perform ceremonies, but nowadays it is only PartinG. I wanted to enter Code S to help entertain, but then I got eliminated. (laughs)
Once comrades, now retired Protoss. Bisu (left) Jangbi (right)
5) TaekBangLeeSsang are actually good friends; at least I win more when against Bisu
Q: I must ask fiercer questions; you were more forthcoming in previous interviews. A: I already told you a lot of secrets. I must be more careful now. (laughs) I am always very careful with what to say during interviews or public events. Before I transitioned to SC2, someone told me that. He told me I would send me to overseas tournaments, so I should not say irresponsible things during interviews. But when I actually transitioned he didn’t send me overseas, so I am not very happy.
Q: After transitioning to SC2, even TaekBangLeeSsang do not meet each other very often any more. A: Conversation with players from other teams was already restricted after the match fixing scandal. I did not contact them individually, but when Flash, Bisu and Jaedong play in a tournament together, we get to meet all day, so we are still great friends. When we meet we talk about the things happening in the teams, but nothing special.
Q: If in SC2, TaekBangLeeSsang were in 1 team, it would be so great. How would the results look like? A: Of course the results would be bad. At least we would need to have Jangbi and Fantasy. Apart from me and Bisu we are all playing well. To be honest I thought I would play better than Jaedong and Bisu this season. But Jaedong paid a lot of effort, you cannot deny him that. I never played Bisu but I won more games than him, so I am satisfied already. (laughs)
Q: Now Stork is a name that is both hated and loved by fans. Not only can that be seen from your new nicknames, but you also get dissed when you lose. You must have many feelings about this. A: I don’t care about the people who scold me. I won’t become sad because someone said I grew fat. I just said it, but I went to the psychiatrist and took medicine, which is the main reason why I grew fat. Now I am exercising a lot; I exercised before coming, so that is why I can drink here. The only problem is when I put on clothes.
TaekBangLeeSsang in SC2 (from left, Bisu, Stork, Jaedong, Flash)
6) Progamers must plan their future; eSports cannot protect your future
Q: Fans are uncertain about SC2’s future, but the players are worrying even more. Say something to your juniors. A: Progamers have a particularly bad problem; when we meet everyone asks, what should I do. Everyone is nocturnal, only meeting people after 12 am when practice ends. This life starts early and we lack social survival skills. But that is not the fault of the players but rather that of the teams. Teams must be well developed before everyone lives well. You may have a lot of money, but you don’t even know how and where to spend it. You may have holidays, but you don’t know what to do, so you end up playing Starcraft anyway. Outsiders look at you as a useless person. So you must meet more people. It doesn’t only have to be women; you can learn a lot about society just meeting more people. After you make money, you will want to open a business, but what business? Basically, if you cannot become Flash, you have to look further.
Q: If you are willing to work hard, there is future in other areas, don’t you think so? A: Teams cannot protect your future; as a progamer, while it is important to try your best in your career, you cannot throw your entire life into it. If it were like other sports it is simple to do other things, but not with eSports. I said before, eSports does not yet have the same qualities of traditional sports. You must prepare for yourself. I want to be a progamer until I am 29, but when Odin talks about conscription, I waver too. But of course, I am not only a progamer, I must also prepare well for my future.
Q: So according to you, who has done the best at preparing for their future? A: Of course it is CloudTemplar (LOL player), who doesn’t respond to me. (laughs) We even did a fomos interview together. This player has great vision, and when you see him on TV you hope he performs well. When this sort of player performs well, the public will look on progamers more kindly. I thought before that he is well suited to television; now he has found his own road and I hope he will live well in the future.
Q: What about SC2 players? Is there anyone who is your role model? A: It has to be Jaedong. Liquid`HerO and PartinG are also good. Before I advanced from the qualifiers, I played many other games. But these 3 players are very hardworking in SC2. Some of my team’s players are also like that. When you see these players, you know SC2 will not fail.
Q: About your teammates, when such a talent as Grape switches to LOL, do you feel disappointed? A: If Grape had continued playing SC2, he would be better than everyone else. He is a very hardworking person. He doesn’t even own a phone. He is that focused on training. His style is also very suited to SC2. Disappointment aside, I hear he is doing very well. Maybe if I was a few years younger I wouldn’t be thinking about a phone either, I don’t know if I would play well. (laughs)
Q: Looking back at 10 years of progaming, what are your future goals? A: I have been playing for 9 years now, and in the team for 10. Back then IntoTheRain and Boxer were my heroes. Now I don’t go and learn from anyone anymore. Even though I did not achieve as much as they did, but if the road to the top is shorter, so the path down will become longer and wider. Maybe that is why I want to find my own style. This way, I can become an acclaimed player in SC2 as well.
Can't believe that I'm saying this, but Stork really does need to get off his high horse of bashing afreeca streamers who are reviving BW and saying that the loss of interest in SC2 is because of the players (he makes it sound like this is the only cause of that problem). his stance that the streamers are corrupting themselves is on bad foundations when these streamers are leading the pathway for BW coming back into the spotlight, even though the scene itself is less rigid than what KeSPA had in place.
On October 30 2013 21:47 amazingxkcd wrote: Can't believe that I'm saying this, but Stork really does need to get off his high horse of bashing afreeca streamers who are reviving BW. his stance that the streamers are corrupting themselves is on bad foundations when these streamers are leading the pathway for BW coming back into the spotlight, even though the scene itself is less rigid than what KeSPA had in place.
I think he's disappointed in that they gave up on the new challenge that came with SC2 to go back to what they know. I'm not saying he's necessarily right or wrong in his opinion on Afreeca, but I think I'd be disappointed too. Stork's approach to the game is inspiring, though. I certainly didn't think he'd still be around.
Q: Nowadays the players you meet in tournaments are all your juniors now, but you still fight. Even if it is not for the fans, you must be feeling different nowadays? A: Yes. But recently a few players have become too disrespectful. In matches, even if you use barcode IDs you can still be recognized. But in a match, a player actually badmouthed me. Of course it does not feel good to get badmouthed. So I asked my teammates who he was, and they told me he was a rookie from a certain team. I was very mad so I demanded him to explain why he badmouthed me: “I am Stork, I am older, I am more experienced, don’t say I am cashing out on my seniority, at least have some respect whether it is offline or online”. But he dared to say, “So what?” I met him later, and talked about that incident again. He actually said that aren’t you very annoying, remembering about this all the time, so I got mad again. Young players have many disrespectful actions like this; it shocks me every time. At least I did not do it when I was young.
hahaha. Circa-2003
yo, what do you guys know about the amateur player stork/pain[joypop]? Is he any good? i ask cause i played the guy, friendly game, he barely wins, and then at the end of the game he was a huge asshole -travis
i saw his reps to, below average for a korean i think he should possibly take up playing pokemon =] - Legionnaire
Q: Nowadays the players you meet in tournaments are all your juniors now, but you still fight. Even if it is not for the fans, you must be feeling different nowadays? A: Yes. But recently a few players have become too disrespectful. In matches, even if you use barcode IDs you can still be recognized. But in a match, a player actually badmouthed me. Of course it does not feel good to get badmouthed. So I asked my teammates who he was, and they told me he was a rookie from a certain team. I was very mad so I demanded him to explain why he badmouthed me: “I am Stork, I am older, I am more experienced, don’t say I am cashing out on my seniority, at least have some respect whether it is offline or online”. But he dared to say, “So what?” I met him later, and talked about that incident again. He actually said that aren’t you very annoying, remembering about this all the time, so I got mad again. Young players have many disrespectful actions like this; it shocks me every time. At least I did not do it when I was young.
yo, what do you guys know about the amateur player stork/pain[joypop]? Is he any good? i ask cause i played the guy, friendly game, he barely wins, and then at the end of the game he was a huge asshole -travis
Q: Nowadays the players you meet in tournaments are all your juniors now, but you still fight. Even if it is not for the fans, you must be feeling different nowadays? A: Yes. But recently a few players have become too disrespectful. In matches, even if you use barcode IDs you can still be recognized. But in a match, a player actually badmouthed me. Of course it does not feel good to get badmouthed. So I asked my teammates who he was, and they told me he was a rookie from a certain team. I was very mad so I demanded him to explain why he badmouthed me: “I am Stork, I am older, I am more experienced, don’t say I am cashing out on my seniority, at least have some respect whether it is offline or online”. But he dared to say, “So what?” I met him later, and talked about that incident again. He actually said that aren’t you very annoying, remembering about this all the time, so I got mad again. Young players have many disrespectful actions like this; it shocks me every time. At least I did not do it when I was young.
hahaha. Circa-2003
yo, what do you guys know about the amateur player stork/pain[joypop]? Is he any good? i ask cause i played the guy, friendly game, he barely wins, and then at the end of the game he was a huge asshole -travis
i saw his reps to, below average for a korean i think he should possibly take up playing pokemon =] - Legionnaire
Q: Nowadays the players you meet in tournaments are all your juniors now, but you still fight. Even if it is not for the fans, you must be feeling different nowadays? A: Yes. But recently a few players have become too disrespectful. In matches, even if you use barcode IDs you can still be recognized. But in a match, a player actually badmouthed me. Of course it does not feel good to get badmouthed. So I asked my teammates who he was, and they told me he was a rookie from a certain team. I was very mad so I demanded him to explain why he badmouthed me: “I am Stork, I am older, I am more experienced, don’t say I am cashing out on my seniority, at least have some respect whether it is offline or online”. But he dared to say, “So what?” I met him later, and talked about that incident again. He actually said that aren’t you very annoying, remembering about this all the time, so I got mad again. Young players have many disrespectful actions like this; it shocks me every time. At least I did not do it when I was young.
yo, what do you guys know about the amateur player stork/pain[joypop]? Is he any good? i ask cause i played the guy, friendly game, he barely wins, and then at the end of the game he was a huge asshole -travis
Q: Nowadays the players you meet in tournaments are all your juniors now, but you still fight. Even if it is not for the fans, you must be feeling different nowadays? A: Yes. But recently a few players have become too disrespectful. In matches, even if you use barcode IDs you can still be recognized. But in a match, a player actually badmouthed me. Of course it does not feel good to get badmouthed. So I asked my teammates who he was, and they told me he was a rookie from a certain team. I was very mad so I demanded him to explain why he badmouthed me: “I am Stork, I am older, I am more experienced, don’t say I am cashing out on my seniority, at least have some respect whether it is offline or online”. But he dared to say, “So what?” I met him later, and talked about that incident again. He actually said that aren’t you very annoying, remembering about this all the time, so I got mad again. Young players have many disrespectful actions like this; it shocks me every time. At least I did not do it when I was young.
yo, what do you guys know about the amateur player stork/pain[joypop]? Is he any good? i ask cause i played the guy, friendly game, he barely wins, and then at the end of the game he was a huge asshole -travis
I like the interview and that that Stork is up to the challange. I really appreciate that part about how progamers need to plan for their own future and not expect Esports to support them. Also the dig at the players ditching sc2 to stream BW was fun. Glad to see he is having fun with SC2. It's clear stork is here to play for his fans, even if only one shows up.(In a sweet costume!)
Mad interview that. Would of loved to seen "Grape" play SC2 if Stork thought he would of been "that" good xD Well i guess this proleague season will be the turning point for Stork, either he does well or he will be forced into retirement (is what i get from the interview)
Thanks for translating too, must of taken you absolutely ages!
On October 30 2013 21:47 amazingxkcd wrote: Can't believe that I'm saying this, but Stork really does need to get off his high horse of bashing afreeca streamers who are reviving BW and saying that the loss of interest in SC2 is because of the players (he makes it sound like this is the only cause of that problem). his stance that the streamers are corrupting themselves is on bad foundations when these streamers are leading the pathway for BW coming back into the spotlight, even though the scene itself is less rigid than what KeSPA had in place.
it depends on whether he wants BW coming back into the spotlight and so on
very interesting perspective on streamers. I guess his opinion is that if they have retired as professional gamers, they should not have these "fan games" because those are for entertainment while the current progamers are working as a professional job that is for copmetitveness?
Great interview, very interesting (and sad) to read. Thanks a lot for the translation.
SC1 was fun because every game was different, and it depended on your performance that game. On the contrary, in SC2 each game looks the same. Just turtle till 200 supply and fight. When in a disadvantage, if you could not harass your opponent, you would lose straight-on as well. Maybe that is why even if your favourite team lost, you did not think the opponents played particularly well.
I think I could not have said better. He just resumed why SC2 is far behind BW.
On October 30 2013 22:11 Plexa wrote: hahaha. Circa-2003
yo, what do you guys know about the amateur player stork/pain[joypop]? Is he any good? i ask cause i played the guy, friendly game, he barely wins, and then at the end of the game he was a huge asshole -travis
btw. Weird there was no mention of January, maybe the iview happened before. She must have been important to Stork as a figure. Taking him when he was only 13 yo and fostering him as a pilar of KHAN and Protoss race.
Can't believe I'm gonna say this ever, but I fucking hate Stork now. I have been a fans for so long, evenw watching his sc2 match. But the way he badmouthing afreeca/sospa scene break my heart.
It is very apparent that Stork is extremely jelly of BW streamers for enjoying themselves while making a living doing so. You can't expect people to stop playing BW if they "retire". That's imbecile on so many levels.
SC1 was fun because every game was different, and it depended on your performance that game. On the contrary, in SC2 each game looks the same. Just turtle till 200 supply and fight. When in a disadvantage, if you could not harass your opponent, you would lose straight-on as well. Maybe that is why even if your favourite team lost, you did not think the opponents played particularly well.
I think I could not have said better. He just resumed why SC2 is far behind BW.
Something that is pretty sad is if Stork doesn't see anything else in Starcraft II than that.
On October 30 2013 23:26 Xiphos wrote: It is very apparent that Stork is extremely jelly of BW streamers for enjoying themselves while making a living doing so. You can't expect people to stop playing BW if they "retire". That's imbecile on so many levels.
That doesn't make sense because he can also simply retire and streams BW too. Given his name, he should gain a lot of viewers.
Q: Nowadays the players you meet in tournaments are all your juniors now, but you still fight. Even if it is not for the fans, you must be feeling different nowadays? A: Yes. But recently a few players have become too disrespectful. In matches, even if you use barcode IDs you can still be recognized. But in a match, a player actually badmouthed me. Of course it does not feel good to get badmouthed. So I asked my teammates who he was, and they told me he was a rookie from a certain team. I was very mad so I demanded him to explain why he badmouthed me: “I am Stork, I am older, I am more experienced, don’t say I am cashing out on my seniority, at least have some respect whether it is offline or online”. But he dared to say, “So what?” I met him later, and talked about that incident again. He actually said that aren’t you very annoying, remembering about this all the time, so I got mad again. Young players have many disrespectful actions like this; it shocks me every time. At least I did not do it when I was young.
yo, what do you guys know about the amateur player stork/pain[joypop]? Is he any good? i ask cause i played the guy, friendly game, he barely wins, and then at the end of the game he was a huge asshole -travis
On October 30 2013 22:55 Glioburd wrote: Great interview, very interesting (and sad) to read. Thanks a lot for the translation.
SC1 was fun because every game was different, and it depended on your performance that game. On the contrary, in SC2 each game looks the same. Just turtle till 200 supply and fight. When in a disadvantage, if you could not harass your opponent, you would lose straight-on as well. Maybe that is why even if your favourite team lost, you did not think the opponents played particularly well.
I think I could not have said better. He just resumed why SC2 is far behind BW.
Something that is pretty sad is if Stork doesn't see anything else in Starcraft II than that.
I watched the season 3 grand slam and I didn't see a lot of 200/200 death balls. Stork is just grumpy he can't storm drop like Dear can.
Stork grew as a teamplayer and stayed as a teamplayer, sure he is on high horse, its stork for fuck sake. But what he says has a glimpse of truth. Streaming and entartaining for money will not make people interested in esport. And he didnt shit on whole Sospa scene he said personal streams and he mentioned money and decadent behavior. He knew all those players well before(Sea? JangBi, Bisu? he was close with all of them), his point of view is definitely different than mine or yours when he saw them streaming. It is not good for esports that you have to become entairtainer to live on. In BW days players didnt need to do so, they had salaries and if they didnt have salaries they became good enough to get one.
When you see that Terror is 2nd highest balloon earner you understand that streaming is not all about Esports glory.
On October 30 2013 23:26 lichter wrote: Kinda funny how people read the interview as sad
Why? Sure, his viewpoint on being a progamer in the SC2-era is inspiring, but overall he's a shadow of his former self and his career seems to be sputtering to an end. It's very sad seeing Stork struggling as all his friends retire around him.
On October 30 2013 23:44 DinoToss wrote: Stork grew as a teamplayer and stayed as a teamplayer, sure he is on high horse, its stork for fuck sake. But what he says has a glimpse of truth. Streaming and entartaining for money will not make people interested in esport. And he didnt shit on whole Sospa scene he said personal streams and he mentioned money and decadent behavior. He knew all those players well before(Sea? JangBi, Bisu? he was close with all of them), his point of view is definitely different than mine or yours when he saw them streaming. It is not good for esports that you have to become entairtainer to live on. In BW days players didnt need to do so, they had salaries and if they didnt have salaries they became good enough to get one.
When you see that Terror is 2nd highest balloon earner you understand that streaming is not all about Esports glory.
i agree, i can definitely see stork's side in all of this. personally, i would much rather see the amazing bw players in a formal professional setting than streaming for balloons. what's sad to me is that they have to resort to it to earn money while doing what they love so i can't blame them for streaming/entertaining either. they're kinda like ronins now.
On October 30 2013 22:55 Glioburd wrote: Great interview, very interesting (and sad) to read. Thanks a lot for the translation.
SC1 was fun because every game was different, and it depended on your performance that game. On the contrary, in SC2 each game looks the same. Just turtle till 200 supply and fight. When in a disadvantage, if you could not harass your opponent, you would lose straight-on as well. Maybe that is why even if your favourite team lost, you did not think the opponents played particularly well.
I think I could not have said better. He just resumed why SC2 is far behind BW.
Something that is pretty sad is if Stork doesn't see anything else in Starcraft II than that.
I watched the season 3 grand slam and I didn't see a lot of 200/200 death balls. Stork is just grumpy he can't storm drop like Dear can.
Exactly, if we talk about SC2, 200/200 Death balls were the thing in WoL, but really game evolved a lot since then. Armies are all over the place, and we usually have a ton of small skirmishes.
On October 30 2013 22:55 Glioburd wrote: Great interview, very interesting (and sad) to read. Thanks a lot for the translation.
SC1 was fun because every game was different, and it depended on your performance that game. On the contrary, in SC2 each game looks the same. Just turtle till 200 supply and fight. When in a disadvantage, if you could not harass your opponent, you would lose straight-on as well. Maybe that is why even if your favourite team lost, you did not think the opponents played particularly well.
I think I could not have said better. He just resumed why SC2 is far behind BW.
Something that is pretty sad is if Stork doesn't see anything else in Starcraft II than that.
I watched the season 3 grand slam and I didn't see a lot of 200/200 death balls. Stork is just grumpy he can't storm drop like Dear can.
Stork has always been the outspoken (comparatively speaking against other progamer interviews) in his interviews. Extra thoughts and extra depth, that kind of thing.
I'm in line with his view on personal streaming. It doesn't help anybody except the Afreeca management which makes a nice income off the balloon transactions. Majority of players are delaying their military service while making chump change from begging for pennies. For the former superstars those pennies may mount up to significant bursts in income, yes, but how long will that be sustained? Every day, week, and month that they lounge around in their parents' basements streaming and online begging equates to that much time lost in preparing for a sustainable career in other fields. Personal streaming itself isn't the devil, it's the fact that progamers are delaying the inevitable transition in their lives with none or delusional thoughts for their futures. Moreover, on top of delaying one's own future, personal streaming does not achieve the one thing that pioneering legends like Boxer dedicated their careers to: creating a scene for the next generation.
There needs to be a distinction between personal streaming and participating in the SSL / SOSPA-related tournaments, however. The SSL is essentially doing what Boxer and the pioneering crew did a decade and half ago - bring up a popular game to eSports status by giving players the opportunity to perform and become progamers. Just recently the draft work for a SOSPA team league came up as a hot topic in the BW forums, again showing similar steps that we already saw long ago. The question is, why do we have to go through growing pains again?
Here we can trace it back to what Stork said and question the players and their dedication to the "entire scene" as opposed to personal gains. Perhaps the current state doesn't easily give way for a resurgence of BW within the KeSPA/OGN-domain, when LoL is dominating the OGN time slots and SC2 is rigidly in place (despite the lack of public interest). For all I know, Blizzard doesn't give a fuck about what happens in Korea ever since they didn't get an outright clear win in the legal fiasco before the transition, letting the Korean scene dry out while they scramble to keep the NA/EU scene going.
Some, like Xellos and Cloud, have started new careers and new lives. Some, like Boxer, have spent significant time, fortune, and effort to sustain the scene. You're either in or out. Others retreat to unknown corners and exchange the last crumpets of their legacy for pennies.
On October 30 2013 23:09 Shana wrote: Can't believe I'm gonna say this ever, but I fucking hate Stork now. I have been a fans for so long, evenw watching his sc2 match. But the way he badmouthing afreeca/sospa scene break my heart.
your opinion and that khan sign...this is so offensive to me...i can't believe this isn't a temp ban
As to be expected of a translation of a translation, the translation is pretty bad. That said, it is still an interesting interview.
Q: Are you envious of the retired players who are enjoying great popularity with fans by streaming? A: I am very down on these personal streams. It makes me sad to see these players ruin their own public image on stream. It is difficult to get a positive impression from such streams because even the players who were involved in the match-fixing scandal are streaming. I have a lot of pride as a pro gamer. When we played, 10s of thousands of people came to cheer. What those fans cheered for was ultimately the high-level of play shown by the players. Some of the streamers not only dispel the fantasy/mystique of pro gaming but also engage in behavior that regards fans as sources of money and nothing more. These players were perfectly normal people when they were pro gamers. It is tragic that they will debase themselves to such extent just for money. There's nothing wrong with streaming if your motives are pure, but I hope that no one will stream only for money. Of course, there are players who are indeed streaming with pure motives.
Stork seems to be mainly unhappy about streamers on Afreeca who are destroying the public image of pro gamers. If you watch those streams, many are constantly swearing, begging for money, treating fans who don't donate balloons like shit, and just overall acting like ignorant assholes. I think that Bisu/Mind/hero/killer probably behave decently for the most part. Sea's stream is pretty darn embarrassing at times, but he's far from the worst in terms of this behavior. There's been a conservative movement in Korea to include computer gaming as one of the 4 Great Evils of society to be targeted by the government (along with alcohol, drugs, and gambling). The public image of pro gamers is important to ensuring the survival of the industry.
I won't agree with everything Stork said, but he is 1) not condemning all streaming on Afreeca (only the ones embarrassing themselves and the pro gaming community) 2) saying that pro gamers should feel some personal responsibility to their profession.
Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.
On October 30 2013 23:44 DinoToss wrote: Stork grew as a teamplayer and stayed as a teamplayer, sure he is on high horse, its stork for fuck sake. But what he says has a glimpse of truth. Streaming and entartaining for money will not make people interested in esport. And he didnt shit on whole Sospa scene he said personal streams and he mentioned money and decadent behavior. He knew all those players well before(Sea? JangBi, Bisu? he was close with all of them), his point of view is definitely different than mine or yours when he saw them streaming. It is not good for esports that you have to become entairtainer to live on. In BW days players didnt need to do so, they had salaries and if they didnt have salaries they became good enough to get one.
When you see that Terror is 2nd highest balloon earner you understand that streaming is not all about Esports glory.
He also said that it is players' fault that there is small fanbase of sc2, because there is not enough showmanship. Showmanship and decadent behavior don't have to be too different. Besides, he plays for money. I don't get, what's bad about streaming for money.
Edit: ok, it has already been explained in the post above.
On October 30 2013 23:09 Shana wrote: Can't believe I'm gonna say this ever, but I fucking hate Stork now. I have been a fans for so long, evenw watching his sc2 match. But the way he badmouthing afreeca/sospa scene break my heart.
your opinion and that khan sign...this is so offensive to me...i can't believe this isn't a temp ban
I don't understand it, Stork seems completely reasonable in his reasoning. As I've said before, I defo agree with Stork and with what he has to say regarding this.
On October 30 2013 23:26 Xiphos wrote: It is very apparent that Stork is extremely jelly of BW streamers for enjoying themselves while making a living doing so. You can't expect people to stop playing BW if they "retire". That's imbecile on so many levels.
It is imbecile to judge someone based on a double translated interview....
His position on streaming seems incredibly haughty to me. Absolutely not a shred of respect for streamers because of their "decadent" behavior? What does that even mean? Disappointing to here from him.
This was one of those interviews that kinda makes me want to stop trying to be a progamer, what with all the doom and gloom over the state of SC2 and the general pro player base.
Isn't he like just dissmissing the Destinies and "late" Idras? People that get tons of viewers because they play "decent/good" but mainly because they rage and create General drama?
On October 31 2013 00:56 Velr wrote: Isn't he like just dissmissing the Destinies and "late" Idras? People that get tons of viewers because they play "decent/good" but mainly because they rage and create General drama?
Which is a perfectly fine position?
I wouldn't be surprised if terror[fou]'s antics contributed to his views of the streaming scene.
Disagree with his view on streamers. I would agree with the hate of "bad, but very popular streamers", who ruin the image of being a successful gamer, but he seems to be against any streaming whatsoever, which is kind of silly imo.
On October 31 2013 00:56 Velr wrote: Isn't he like just dissmissing the Destinies and "late" Idras? People that get tons of viewers because they play "decent/good" but mainly because they rage and create General drama?
Q: After entering the SC2 era, fans [...] (T/N don’t know what this means). What is wrong with SC2? A: SC1 was fun because every game was different, and it depended on your performance that game. On the contrary, in SC2 each game looks the same. Just turtle till 200 supply and fight. When in a disadvantage, if you could not harass your opponent, you would lose straight-on as well. Maybe that is why even if your favourite team lost, you did not think the opponents played particularly well. But this is all in the standpoint of the viewer. For the progamers, both SC1 and SC2 are meaningful. They have to work hard and prepare for all the competitions and prove themselves with results.
Ouch. I feel a little bit of I told you so coming on.
Q: After entering the SC2 era, fans [...] (T/N don’t know what this means). What is wrong with SC2? A: SC1 was fun because every game was different, and it depended on your performance that game. On the contrary, in SC2 each game looks the same. Just turtle till 200 supply and fight. When in a disadvantage, if you could not harass your opponent, you would lose straight-on as well. Maybe that is why even if your favourite team lost, you did not think the opponents played particularly well. But this is all in the standpoint of the viewer. For the progamers, both SC1 and SC2 are meaningful. They have to work hard and prepare for all the competitions and prove themselves with results.
Ouch. I feel a little bit of I told you so coming on.
It would be if we are talking about WoL, however...
Q: Nowadays the players you meet in tournaments are all your juniors now, but you still fight. Even if it is not for the fans, you must be feeling different nowadays? A: Yes. But recently a few players have become too disrespectful. In matches, even if you use barcode IDs you can still be recognized. But in a match, a player actually badmouthed me. Of course it does not feel good to get badmouthed. So I asked my teammates who he was, and they told me he was a rookie from a certain team. I was very mad so I demanded him to explain why he badmouthed me: “I am Stork, I am older, I am more experienced, don’t say I am cashing out on my seniority, at least have some respect whether it is offline or online”. But he dared to say, “So what?” I met him later, and talked about that incident again. He actually said that aren’t you very annoying, remembering about this all the time, so I got mad again. Young players have many disrespectful actions like this; it shocks me every time. At least I did not do it when I was young.
yo, what do you guys know about the amateur player stork/pain[joypop]? Is he any good? i ask cause i played the guy, friendly game, he barely wins, and then at the end of the game he was a huge asshole -travis
just like in bw that 200 supply deathball thing is newb level, which can also be fun if you make 3 teams with 8 players. The newb level is just a bit harder to leave in sc2.
Really nice interview though. Hope Stork will be able to visit an oversea tournament ... with a non german like crowd. Interesting view on the streaming, makes me respect him alot.
On October 31 2013 00:20 lemmata wrote: As to be expected of a translation of a translation, the translation is pretty bad. That said, it is still an interesting interview.
Q: Are you envious of the retired players who are enjoying great popularity with fans by streaming? A: I am very down on these personal streams. It makes me sad to see these players ruin their own public image on stream. It is difficult to get a positive impression from such streams because even the players who were involved in the match-fixing scandal are streaming. I have a lot of pride as a pro gamer. When we played, 10s of thousands of people came to cheer. What those fans cheered for was ultimately the high-level of play shown by the players. Some of the streamers not only dispel the fantasy/mystique of pro gaming but also engage in behavior that regards fans as sources of money and nothing more. These players were perfectly normal people when they were pro gamers. It is tragic that they will debase themselves to such extent just for money. There's nothing wrong with streaming if your motives are pure, but I hope that no one will stream only for money. Of course, there are players who are indeed streaming with pure motives.
Stork seems to be mainly unhappy about streamers on Afreeca who are destroying the public image of pro gamers. If you watch those streams, many are constantly swearing, begging for money, treating fans who don't donate balloons like shit, and just overall acting like ignorant assholes. I think that Bisu/Mind/hero/killer probably behave decently for the most part. Sea's stream is pretty darn embarrassing at times, but he's far from the worst in terms of this behavior. There's been a conservative movement in Korea to include computer gaming as one of the 4 Great Evils of society to be targeted by the government (along with alcohol, drugs, and gambling). The public image of pro gamers is important to ensuring the survival of the industry.
I won't agree with everything Stork said, but he is 1) not condemning all streaming on Afreeca (only the ones embarrassing themselves and the pro gaming community) 2) saying that pro gamers should feel some personal responsibility to their profession.
Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.
Seems like you know a lot about what's going on "inside" there, was that in large part because of Match fixing scandal, or maybe it was happening before, like even in 2005-2006 peak years?
Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.
I want to see the role models you have admitting so much truth about their personality & issues... ofc everyone out there is so stable, perfect & genuine.. this is such a truthful interview, there won't be a lot more
Stork doesn't criticize the concept of BW afreeca streaming. He condemns the progamers who break their previous image to beg for money, start cursing at fans, etc (and I can name a few).
That's why he also talks about the pride of being a progamer. He believes that if you were a progamer, even if you retire, you should keep your image infront of your fans. Especially if you're going to do personal streaming that involves the game that helped you gain the fans in the first place.
there's a big difference between, say, light streaming (a tiny bit) and writing guides, some of the other streamers more game focused, and people like Terror.
Yet Terror is like the most popular streamer. Well, except maybe bisu.
- 그래도 은퇴한 선수들은 개인방송을 통해서 팬들을 찾고 있잖아요. 인기가 장난이 아니던데, 부럽지는 않아요? ▶ 저는 개인방송에 대해서 굉장히 부정적이거든요. 방송에서 망가지는 모습을 보니까 안타까워요. 조작 사건과 관련된 선수도 방송을 하잖아요. 그러니 더더욱 개인방송에 대해 좋은 인상을 받기가 어렵죠. 저는 프로게이머로서의 프라이드가 강해요. 관중들이 한 둘씩 오는 것이 아니라 몇 만 명씩 와서 환호를 하잖아요. 그런 팬들이 좋아했던 것은 궁극적으로 그 선수의 플레이잖아요. 개인방송을 하는 사람들 중에 일부는 그런 환상을 모두 깨는 동시에, 팬들을 돈으로 보는 행동을 해요. 분명히 대회장에서 보면 정말 멀쩡했거든요. 그런데 돈을 위해 그렇게까지 변한다는 점이 무척 아쉬워요. 순수한 의도면 모를까 돈을 위한 방송은 하지 않았으면 좋겠어요. 물론 안 그런 선수들도 있지만요.
- Still, many retired progamers are interacting with their fans via their personal streams. [These streamers/streams] are quite popular, are you perhaps jealous of them?
▶ My view on those personal streams is very negative. It's sad to see them embarrass themselves in their broadcasts. Besides, even those associated with the matchfixing scandal are streaming, and that makes it even harder to view the streams in a positive light. I take great personal pride in being a progamer. Fans don't come one by one, they come by the tens of thousands to cheer [for the progamers/teams]. For those fans, the core motivation behind their loyalty is the player's skill. Some of the [ex-progamer] streamers shatter those images while broadcasting, and [even do things that show] they treat the fans as money [and nothing more]. All of these guys were perfectly fine before [when I met them / was with them in eSports stadiums/competitions]. That's why it's so disappointing to see these guys turn [into what I described above] just for money. Streaming for [enjoyment of the game, etc.] is fine, but I hope they don't stream for the sole purpose of making money. Of course, not all streamers are like that.
So in this case, the translation in the OP is not too far off... maybe this thread won't be closed like the iloveoov's lol.
Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.
I want to see the role models you have admitting so much truth about their personality & issues... ofc everyone out there is so stable, perfect & genuine.. this is such a truthful interview, there won't be a lot more
I agree. Maybe you misunderstood me. Stork is not my role model. I like Stork as a fan. Therefore, it makes me sad to hear that he's been going through difficult stuff. I want him to do well and be happy with his life. I am not disappointed in him for being depressed or seeking treatment.
The Dinotoss has spoken ! I hope to see you doing well Stork (and I must admit that when I saw your name on the DH Winter Qualifier, I promised myself to go to DH if you qualified)
On October 30 2013 21:39 gobbledydook wrote: Q: After entering the SC2 era, fans [...] (T/N don’t know what this means). What is wrong with SC2? A: SC1 was fun because every game was different, and it depended on your performance that game. On the contrary, in SC2 each game looks the same. Just turtle till 200 supply and fight. When in a disadvantage, if you could not harass your opponent, you would lose straight-on as well.
On October 31 2013 02:42 OpticalShot wrote: I feel like these doubly-translated threads are baits for the direct translators to come out and clarify... well I'm baited.
Here's the original Korean text and my direct translation for the streaming part.
- 그래도 은퇴한 선수들은 개인방송을 통해서 팬들을 찾고 있잖아요. 인기가 장난이 아니던데, 부럽지는 않아요? ▶ 저는 개인방송에 대해서 굉장히 부정적이거든요. 방송에서 망가지는 모습을 보니까 안타까워요. 조작 사건과 관련된 선수도 방송을 하잖아요. 그러니 더더욱 개인방송에 대해 좋은 인상을 받기가 어렵죠. 저는 프로게이머로서의 프라이드가 강해요. 관중들이 한 둘씩 오는 것이 아니라 몇 만 명씩 와서 환호를 하잖아요. 그런 팬들이 좋아했던 것은 궁극적으로 그 선수의 플레이잖아요. 개인방송을 하는 사람들 중에 일부는 그런 환상을 모두 깨는 동시에, 팬들을 돈으로 보는 행동을 해요. 분명히 대회장에서 보면 정말 멀쩡했거든요. 그런데 돈을 위해 그렇게까지 변한다는 점이 무척 아쉬워요. 순수한 의도면 모를까 돈을 위한 방송은 하지 않았으면 좋겠어요. 물론 안 그런 선수들도 있지만요.
- Still, many retired progamers are interacting with their fans via their personal streams. [These streamers/streams] are quite popular, are you perhaps jealous of them?
▶ My view on those personal streams is very negative. It's sad to see them embarrass themselves in their broadcasts. Besides, even those associated with the matchfixing scandal are streaming, and that makes it even harder to view the streams in a positive light. I take great personal pride in being a progamer. Fans don't come one by one, they come by the tens of thousands to cheer [for the progamers/teams]. For those fans, the core motivation behind their loyalty is the player's skill. Some of the [ex-progamer] streamers shatter those images while broadcasting, and [even do things that show] they treat the fans as money [and nothing more]. All of these guys were perfectly fine before [when I met them / was with them in eSports stadiums/competitions]. That's why it's so disappointing to see these guys turn [into what I described above] just for money. Streaming for [enjoyment of the game, etc.] is fine, but I hope they don't stream for the sole purpose of making money. Of course, not all streamers are like that.
So in this case, the translation in the OP is not too far off... maybe this thread won't be closed like the iloveoov's lol.
Put this in the OP. I don't wanna see ppl have negative thinking on Stork
On October 30 2013 23:09 Shana wrote: Can't believe I'm gonna say this ever, but I fucking hate Stork now. I have been a fans for so long, evenw watching his sc2 match. But the way he badmouthing afreeca/sospa scene break my heart.
Are you seriously going to go from fan to hater because you read a translated interview with a person that a) do not know and b) probably have limited knowledge of the mindset of a Korean progamer?
I'm not saying the translation is poorly done or anything, but with the huge cultural and mindset difference between the west and Korea this translation is not intended to be taken literally word for word as an instruction manual to what Stork thinks and his complete reasoning for thinking that way. Use common sense, please.
On October 31 2013 02:42 OpticalShot wrote: I feel like these doubly-translated threads are baits for the direct translators to come out and clarify... well I'm baited.
Here's the original Korean text and my direct translation for the streaming part.
- 그래도 은퇴한 선수들은 개인방송을 통해서 팬들을 찾고 있잖아요. 인기가 장난이 아니던데, 부럽지는 않아요? ▶ 저는 개인방송에 대해서 굉장히 부정적이거든요. 방송에서 망가지는 모습을 보니까 안타까워요. 조작 사건과 관련된 선수도 방송을 하잖아요. 그러니 더더욱 개인방송에 대해 좋은 인상을 받기가 어렵죠. 저는 프로게이머로서의 프라이드가 강해요. 관중들이 한 둘씩 오는 것이 아니라 몇 만 명씩 와서 환호를 하잖아요. 그런 팬들이 좋아했던 것은 궁극적으로 그 선수의 플레이잖아요. 개인방송을 하는 사람들 중에 일부는 그런 환상을 모두 깨는 동시에, 팬들을 돈으로 보는 행동을 해요. 분명히 대회장에서 보면 정말 멀쩡했거든요. 그런데 돈을 위해 그렇게까지 변한다는 점이 무척 아쉬워요. 순수한 의도면 모를까 돈을 위한 방송은 하지 않았으면 좋겠어요. 물론 안 그런 선수들도 있지만요.
- Still, many retired progamers are interacting with their fans via their personal streams. [These streamers/streams] are quite popular, are you perhaps jealous of them?
▶ My view on those personal streams is very negative. It's sad to see them embarrass themselves in their broadcasts. Besides, even those associated with the matchfixing scandal are streaming, and that makes it even harder to view the streams in a positive light. I take great personal pride in being a progamer. Fans don't come one by one, they come by the tens of thousands to cheer [for the progamers/teams]. For those fans, the core motivation behind their loyalty is the player's skill. Some of the [ex-progamer] streamers shatter those images while broadcasting, and [even do things that show] they treat the fans as money [and nothing more]. All of these guys were perfectly fine before [when I met them / was with them in eSports stadiums/competitions]. That's why it's so disappointing to see these guys turn [into what I described above] just for money. Streaming for [enjoyment of the game, etc.] is fine, but I hope they don't stream for the sole purpose of making money. Of course, not all streamers are like that.
So in this case, the translation in the OP is not too far off... maybe this thread won't be closed like the iloveoov's lol.
everyone should follow him on twitter and say he's awesome! it think its amazing and inspiring that he don't gives up despite the lack of good results.
On October 31 2013 04:28 AyaaLa wrote: everyone should follow him on twitter and say he's awesome! it think its amazing and inspiring that he don't gives up despite the lack of good results.
The couple of times I've read/watched Stork interviews, he's always come across as a very respectable, likable and wise person. Great read and thank you for the translation!
On October 30 2013 21:39 gobbledydook wrote: Q: After entering the SC2 era, fans [...] (T/N don’t know what this means). What is wrong with SC2? A: SC1 was fun because every game was different, and it depended on your performance that game. On the contrary, in SC2 each game looks the same. Just turtle till 200 supply and fight. When in a disadvantage, if you could not harass your opponent, you would lose straight-on as well.
Stork confirms what we've been saying for years.
Who's "we"? I don't think anyone watched the WCS finals and came away saying "Oh yeah, that was a bunch of turtle to 200/200 deathball games"
Q: Nowadays the players you meet in tournaments are all your juniors now, but you still fight. Even if it is not for the fans, you must be feeling different nowadays? A: Yes. But recently a few players have become too disrespectful. In matches, even if you use barcode IDs you can still be recognized. But in a match, a player actually badmouthed me. Of course it does not feel good to get badmouthed. So I asked my teammates who he was, and they told me he was a rookie from a certain team. I was very mad so I demanded him to explain why he badmouthed me: “I am Stork, I am older, I am more experienced, don’t say I am cashing out on my seniority, at least have some respect whether it is offline or online”. But he dared to say, “So what?” I met him later, and talked about that incident again. He actually said that aren’t you very annoying, remembering about this all the time, so I got mad again. Young players have many disrespectful actions like this; it shocks me every time. At least I did not do it when I was young.
yo, what do you guys know about the amateur player stork/pain[joypop]? Is he any good? i ask cause i played the guy, friendly game, he barely wins, and then at the end of the game he was a huge asshole -travis
On October 30 2013 21:39 gobbledydook wrote: Q: After entering the SC2 era, fans [...] (T/N don’t know what this means). What is wrong with SC2? A: SC1 was fun because every game was different, and it depended on your performance that game. On the contrary, in SC2 each game looks the same. Just turtle till 200 supply and fight. When in a disadvantage, if you could not harass your opponent, you would lose straight-on as well.
Stork confirms what we've been saying for years.
Who's "we"? I don't think anyone watched the WCS finals and came away saying "Oh yeah, that was a bunch of turtle to 200/200 deathball games"
Actually, there was one guy in that thread who was complaining about just that :p
Anyway, great interview. I see what he means when he talks about the streamers - it's not about the Sospa scene itself, it's about streamers who do embarassing things for money and treat fans as cash cows...
I'd be against personal streaming as well if they were still sanctioned and competing for big prize money. We make the best of what we got and thank Sonic for doing what he's doing. These ex-pro's are just trying to get by. It's an impromptu method and they're trying to make the best out of the situation they got. Stork even said it, they aren't pro's anymore so what they do on their own time is their business.
*Look HerO, you have another fan.
On October 30 2013 22:11 Plexa wrote: This is such an insanely good interview wow.
Q: Nowadays the players you meet in tournaments are all your juniors now, but you still fight. Even if it is not for the fans, you must be feeling different nowadays? A: Yes. But recently a few players have become too disrespectful. In matches, even if you use barcode IDs you can still be recognized. But in a match, a player actually badmouthed me. Of course it does not feel good to get badmouthed. So I asked my teammates who he was, and they told me he was a rookie from a certain team. I was very mad so I demanded him to explain why he badmouthed me: “I am Stork, I am older, I am more experienced, don’t say I am cashing out on my seniority, at least have some respect whether it is offline or online”. But he dared to say, “So what?” I met him later, and talked about that incident again. He actually said that aren’t you very annoying, remembering about this all the time, so I got mad again. Young players have many disrespectful actions like this; it shocks me every time. At least I did not do it when I was young.
yo, what do you guys know about the amateur player stork/pain[joypop]? Is he any good? i ask cause i played the guy, friendly game, he barely wins, and then at the end of the game he was a huge asshole -travis
On October 31 2013 05:28 StarStruck wrote: I'd be against personal streaming as well if they were still sanctioned and competing for big prize money. We make the best of what we got and thank Sonic for doing what he's doing. These ex-pro's are just trying to get by. It's an impromptu method and they're trying to make the best out of the situation they got. Stork even said it, they aren't pro's anymore so what they do on their own time is their business.
On October 30 2013 22:11 Plexa wrote: This is such an insanely good interview wow.
Q: Nowadays the players you meet in tournaments are all your juniors now, but you still fight. Even if it is not for the fans, you must be feeling different nowadays? A: Yes. But recently a few players have become too disrespectful. In matches, even if you use barcode IDs you can still be recognized. But in a match, a player actually badmouthed me. Of course it does not feel good to get badmouthed. So I asked my teammates who he was, and they told me he was a rookie from a certain team. I was very mad so I demanded him to explain why he badmouthed me: “I am Stork, I am older, I am more experienced, don’t say I am cashing out on my seniority, at least have some respect whether it is offline or online”. But he dared to say, “So what?” I met him later, and talked about that incident again. He actually said that aren’t you very annoying, remembering about this all the time, so I got mad again. Young players have many disrespectful actions like this; it shocks me every time. At least I did not do it when I was young.
hahaha. Circa-2003
yo, what do you guys know about the amateur player stork/pain[joypop]? Is he any good? i ask cause i played the guy, friendly game, he barely wins, and then at the end of the game he was a huge asshole -travis
i saw his reps to, below average for a korean i think he should possibly take up playing pokemon =] - Legionnaire
Where the heck did you did those up from? Your eidetic memory?
The bio I wrote for him circa-2007 the posts are somewhere on TL but im too lazy to find them.
On October 31 2013 05:17 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
On October 30 2013 22:11 Plexa wrote: This is such an insanely good interview wow.
Q: Nowadays the players you meet in tournaments are all your juniors now, but you still fight. Even if it is not for the fans, you must be feeling different nowadays? A: Yes. But recently a few players have become too disrespectful. In matches, even if you use barcode IDs you can still be recognized. But in a match, a player actually badmouthed me. Of course it does not feel good to get badmouthed. So I asked my teammates who he was, and they told me he was a rookie from a certain team. I was very mad so I demanded him to explain why he badmouthed me: “I am Stork, I am older, I am more experienced, don’t say I am cashing out on my seniority, at least have some respect whether it is offline or online”. But he dared to say, “So what?” I met him later, and talked about that incident again. He actually said that aren’t you very annoying, remembering about this all the time, so I got mad again. Young players have many disrespectful actions like this; it shocks me every time. At least I did not do it when I was young.
hahaha. Circa-2003
yo, what do you guys know about the amateur player stork/pain[joypop]? Is he any good? i ask cause i played the guy, friendly game, he barely wins, and then at the end of the game he was a huge asshole -travis
i saw his reps to, below average for a korean i think he should possibly take up playing pokemon =] - Legionnaire
Where the heck did you did those up from? Your eidetic memory?
The bio I wrote for him circa-2007 the posts are somewhere on TL but im too lazy to find them.
Updated the OP with optical shots translation.
It came up more than once. o; Not every Hyung was squeakie clean as a rookie. Stork was no exception.
On October 30 2013 21:39 gobbledydook wrote: Q: After entering the SC2 era, fans [...] (T/N don’t know what this means). What is wrong with SC2? A: SC1 was fun because every game was different, and it depended on your performance that game. On the contrary, in SC2 each game looks the same. Just turtle till 200 supply and fight. When in a disadvantage, if you could not harass your opponent, you would lose straight-on as well.
Stork confirms what we've been saying for years.
The fact that he's completely wrong might explain his lack of results so far.
As someone who never followed BW, I always liked Stork partly because I'm a Toss fan, but also because I admire the fact that despite his lack of results in light of his many BW accomplishments, he's still determined to stick with SC2 and try his best even while other younger ex-BW progamers who have done better in SC2 than him are retiring. I hope his dedication pays off!
Stork brought me to eSports basically... This was 7 years ago. Since then he has been my idol and I will work hard to travel to Seoul one time, just to meet him in person. Would be the biggest honor in my life. That said WCG 2008 Grand Finals was a tragic day... I didnt get to cologne, which is one hour by car from here, cause something cruel happened in my family.
But one day I will meet him and thank him for all the love and optimism he gave my life in hard times. Thx you Stork <3
On October 30 2013 23:26 Xiphos wrote: It is very apparent that Stork is extremely jelly of BW streamers for enjoying themselves while making a living doing so. You can't expect people to stop playing BW if they "retire". That's imbecile on so many levels.
It is imbecile to judge someone based on a double translated interview....
On October 31 2013 02:42 OpticalShot wrote: I feel like these doubly-translated threads are baits for the direct translators to come out and clarify... well I'm baited.
Here's the original Korean text and my direct translation for the streaming part.
- 그래도 은퇴한 선수들은 개인방송을 통해서 팬들을 찾고 있잖아요. 인기가 장난이 아니던데, 부럽지는 않아요? ▶ 저는 개인방송에 대해서 굉장히 부정적이거든요. 방송에서 망가지는 모습을 보니까 안타까워요. 조작 사건과 관련된 선수도 방송을 하잖아요. 그러니 더더욱 개인방송에 대해 좋은 인상을 받기가 어렵죠. 저는 프로게이머로서의 프라이드가 강해요. 관중들이 한 둘씩 오는 것이 아니라 몇 만 명씩 와서 환호를 하잖아요. 그런 팬들이 좋아했던 것은 궁극적으로 그 선수의 플레이잖아요. 개인방송을 하는 사람들 중에 일부는 그런 환상을 모두 깨는 동시에, 팬들을 돈으로 보는 행동을 해요. 분명히 대회장에서 보면 정말 멀쩡했거든요. 그런데 돈을 위해 그렇게까지 변한다는 점이 무척 아쉬워요. 순수한 의도면 모를까 돈을 위한 방송은 하지 않았으면 좋겠어요. 물론 안 그런 선수들도 있지만요.
- Still, many retired progamers are interacting with their fans via their personal streams. [These streamers/streams] are quite popular, are you perhaps jealous of them?
▶ My view on those personal streams is very negative. It's sad to see them embarrass themselves in their broadcasts. Besides, even those associated with the matchfixing scandal are streaming, and that makes it even harder to view the streams in a positive light. I take great personal pride in being a progamer. Fans don't come one by one, they come by the tens of thousands to cheer [for the progamers/teams]. For those fans, the core motivation behind their loyalty is the player's skill. Some of the [ex-progamer] streamers shatter those images while broadcasting, and [even do things that show] they treat the fans as money [and nothing more]. All of these guys were perfectly fine before [when I met them / was with them in eSports stadiums/competitions]. That's why it's so disappointing to see these guys turn [into what I described above] just for money. Streaming for [enjoyment of the game, etc.] is fine, but I hope they don't stream for the sole purpose of making money. Of course, not all streamers are like that.
So in this case, the translation in the OP is not too far off... maybe this thread won't be closed like the iloveoov's lol.
Read it. Utter delusion and ineptitude to think that ex-pros don't need to create a captivating streaming persona in order to eat. Please consider all factors first before posting.
Who is Stork referring to that is "shattering their images" streaming on Afreeca? Only one I can think of is Terror, but he was barely a pro. I've never seen any of the top ex-pros do anything crazy for donations.
On October 30 2013 23:26 Xiphos wrote: It is very apparent that Stork is extremely jelly of BW streamers for enjoying themselves while making a living doing so. You can't expect people to stop playing BW if they "retire". That's imbecile on so many levels.
It is imbecile to judge someone based on a double translated interview....
On October 31 2013 02:42 OpticalShot wrote: I feel like these doubly-translated threads are baits for the direct translators to come out and clarify... well I'm baited.
Here's the original Korean text and my direct translation for the streaming part.
- 그래도 은퇴한 선수들은 개인방송을 통해서 팬들을 찾고 있잖아요. 인기가 장난이 아니던데, 부럽지는 않아요? ▶ 저는 개인방송에 대해서 굉장히 부정적이거든요. 방송에서 망가지는 모습을 보니까 안타까워요. 조작 사건과 관련된 선수도 방송을 하잖아요. 그러니 더더욱 개인방송에 대해 좋은 인상을 받기가 어렵죠. 저는 프로게이머로서의 프라이드가 강해요. 관중들이 한 둘씩 오는 것이 아니라 몇 만 명씩 와서 환호를 하잖아요. 그런 팬들이 좋아했던 것은 궁극적으로 그 선수의 플레이잖아요. 개인방송을 하는 사람들 중에 일부는 그런 환상을 모두 깨는 동시에, 팬들을 돈으로 보는 행동을 해요. 분명히 대회장에서 보면 정말 멀쩡했거든요. 그런데 돈을 위해 그렇게까지 변한다는 점이 무척 아쉬워요. 순수한 의도면 모를까 돈을 위한 방송은 하지 않았으면 좋겠어요. 물론 안 그런 선수들도 있지만요.
- Still, many retired progamers are interacting with their fans via their personal streams. [These streamers/streams] are quite popular, are you perhaps jealous of them?
▶ My view on those personal streams is very negative. It's sad to see them embarrass themselves in their broadcasts. Besides, even those associated with the matchfixing scandal are streaming, and that makes it even harder to view the streams in a positive light. I take great personal pride in being a progamer. Fans don't come one by one, they come by the tens of thousands to cheer [for the progamers/teams]. For those fans, the core motivation behind their loyalty is the player's skill. Some of the [ex-progamer] streamers shatter those images while broadcasting, and [even do things that show] they treat the fans as money [and nothing more]. All of these guys were perfectly fine before [when I met them / was with them in eSports stadiums/competitions]. That's why it's so disappointing to see these guys turn [into what I described above] just for money. Streaming for [enjoyment of the game, etc.] is fine, but I hope they don't stream for the sole purpose of making money. Of course, not all streamers are like that.
So in this case, the translation in the OP is not too far off... maybe this thread won't be closed like the iloveoov's lol.
Read it. Utter delusion and ineptitude to think that ex-pros don't need to create a captivating streaming persona in order to eat. Please consider all factors first before posting.
Got to agree with xiphos here the second translation from optical shot says that he is no beef with ex-programer streaming for the fun of playing it and well I am all for the greater good of playing the game for fun but there is a reason they are streaming in the first place . The ex-progamer does what he likes to do play Bw and on the sidelines people donate because they like what they are seeing and getting . Don't see how stork has a problem with that people got to eat and they don't have their usual monthly salary anymore...
On October 30 2013 23:26 Xiphos wrote: It is very apparent that Stork is extremely jelly of BW streamers for enjoying themselves while making a living doing so. You can't expect people to stop playing BW if they "retire". That's imbecile on so many levels.
It is imbecile to judge someone based on a double translated interview....
On October 31 2013 02:42 OpticalShot wrote: I feel like these doubly-translated threads are baits for the direct translators to come out and clarify... well I'm baited.
Here's the original Korean text and my direct translation for the streaming part.
- 그래도 은퇴한 선수들은 개인방송을 통해서 팬들을 찾고 있잖아요. 인기가 장난이 아니던데, 부럽지는 않아요? ▶ 저는 개인방송에 대해서 굉장히 부정적이거든요. 방송에서 망가지는 모습을 보니까 안타까워요. 조작 사건과 관련된 선수도 방송을 하잖아요. 그러니 더더욱 개인방송에 대해 좋은 인상을 받기가 어렵죠. 저는 프로게이머로서의 프라이드가 강해요. 관중들이 한 둘씩 오는 것이 아니라 몇 만 명씩 와서 환호를 하잖아요. 그런 팬들이 좋아했던 것은 궁극적으로 그 선수의 플레이잖아요. 개인방송을 하는 사람들 중에 일부는 그런 환상을 모두 깨는 동시에, 팬들을 돈으로 보는 행동을 해요. 분명히 대회장에서 보면 정말 멀쩡했거든요. 그런데 돈을 위해 그렇게까지 변한다는 점이 무척 아쉬워요. 순수한 의도면 모를까 돈을 위한 방송은 하지 않았으면 좋겠어요. 물론 안 그런 선수들도 있지만요.
- Still, many retired progamers are interacting with their fans via their personal streams. [These streamers/streams] are quite popular, are you perhaps jealous of them?
▶ My view on those personal streams is very negative. It's sad to see them embarrass themselves in their broadcasts. Besides, even those associated with the matchfixing scandal are streaming, and that makes it even harder to view the streams in a positive light. I take great personal pride in being a progamer. Fans don't come one by one, they come by the tens of thousands to cheer [for the progamers/teams]. For those fans, the core motivation behind their loyalty is the player's skill. Some of the [ex-progamer] streamers shatter those images while broadcasting, and [even do things that show] they treat the fans as money [and nothing more]. All of these guys were perfectly fine before [when I met them / was with them in eSports stadiums/competitions]. That's why it's so disappointing to see these guys turn [into what I described above] just for money. Streaming for [enjoyment of the game, etc.] is fine, but I hope they don't stream for the sole purpose of making money. Of course, not all streamers are like that.
So in this case, the translation in the OP is not too far off... maybe this thread won't be closed like the iloveoov's lol.
Read it. Utter delusion and ineptitude to think that ex-pros don't need to create a captivating streaming persona in order to eat. Please consider all factors first before posting.
Got to agree with xiphos here the second translation from optical shot says that he is no beef with ex-programer streaming for the fun of playing it and well I am all for the greater good of playing the game for fun but there is a reason they are streaming in the first place . The ex-progamer does what he likes to do play Bw and on the sidelines people donate because they like what they are seeing and getting . Don't see how stork has a problem with that people got to eat and they don't have their usual monthly salary anymore...
Benefit of the doubt would be he saw 1a2a3a[fOu] and immediately began convulsing. When he came to, he decided he needed a drink, but on the way he met the interviewer and he decided that he might as well kill two birds with one stone. But seriously, I doubt he's an idiot. Ex-pros trying to make ends meet while still living the dream should be tolerable to him. Only a fool would be as purist as people seem to think Stork is.
On October 30 2013 23:26 Xiphos wrote: It is very apparent that Stork is extremely jelly of BW streamers for enjoying themselves while making a living doing so. You can't expect people to stop playing BW if they "retire". That's imbecile on so many levels.
It is imbecile to judge someone based on a double translated interview....
On October 31 2013 02:42 OpticalShot wrote: I feel like these doubly-translated threads are baits for the direct translators to come out and clarify... well I'm baited.
Here's the original Korean text and my direct translation for the streaming part.
- 그래도 은퇴한 선수들은 개인방송을 통해서 팬들을 찾고 있잖아요. 인기가 장난이 아니던데, 부럽지는 않아요? ▶ 저는 개인방송에 대해서 굉장히 부정적이거든요. 방송에서 망가지는 모습을 보니까 안타까워요. 조작 사건과 관련된 선수도 방송을 하잖아요. 그러니 더더욱 개인방송에 대해 좋은 인상을 받기가 어렵죠. 저는 프로게이머로서의 프라이드가 강해요. 관중들이 한 둘씩 오는 것이 아니라 몇 만 명씩 와서 환호를 하잖아요. 그런 팬들이 좋아했던 것은 궁극적으로 그 선수의 플레이잖아요. 개인방송을 하는 사람들 중에 일부는 그런 환상을 모두 깨는 동시에, 팬들을 돈으로 보는 행동을 해요. 분명히 대회장에서 보면 정말 멀쩡했거든요. 그런데 돈을 위해 그렇게까지 변한다는 점이 무척 아쉬워요. 순수한 의도면 모를까 돈을 위한 방송은 하지 않았으면 좋겠어요. 물론 안 그런 선수들도 있지만요.
- Still, many retired progamers are interacting with their fans via their personal streams. [These streamers/streams] are quite popular, are you perhaps jealous of them?
▶ My view on those personal streams is very negative. It's sad to see them embarrass themselves in their broadcasts. Besides, even those associated with the matchfixing scandal are streaming, and that makes it even harder to view the streams in a positive light. I take great personal pride in being a progamer. Fans don't come one by one, they come by the tens of thousands to cheer [for the progamers/teams]. For those fans, the core motivation behind their loyalty is the player's skill. Some of the [ex-progamer] streamers shatter those images while broadcasting, and [even do things that show] they treat the fans as money [and nothing more]. All of these guys were perfectly fine before [when I met them / was with them in eSports stadiums/competitions]. That's why it's so disappointing to see these guys turn [into what I described above] just for money. Streaming for [enjoyment of the game, etc.] is fine, but I hope they don't stream for the sole purpose of making money. Of course, not all streamers are like that.
So in this case, the translation in the OP is not too far off... maybe this thread won't be closed like the iloveoov's lol.
Read it. Utter delusion and ineptitude to think that ex-pros don't need to create a captivating streaming persona in order to eat. Please consider all factors first before posting.
Got to agree with xiphos here the second translation from optical shot says that he is no beef with ex-programer streaming for the fun of playing it and well I am all for the greater good of playing the game for fun but there is a reason they are streaming in the first place . The ex-progamer does what he likes to do play Bw and on the sidelines people donate because they like what they are seeing and getting . Don't see how stork has a problem with that people got to eat and they don't have their usual monthly salary anymore...
Benefit of the doubt would be he saw 1a2a3a[fOu] and immediately began convulsing. When he came to, he decided he needed a drink, but on the way he met the interviewer and he decided that he might as well kill two birds with one stone. But seriously, I doubt he's an idiot. Ex-pros trying to make ends meet while still living the dream should be tolerable to him. Only a fool would be as purist as people seem to think Stork is.
Drinking alcohol + unclear criticism on streamers = killing two birds with one stone? M'kay...
A lenient analysis would be that Stork drank too much that he wasn't able to iterate his idea as well as sober. That's the absolute best case scenario one can think of. But we, as readers can't assume that so we have to accept that there are consequences for everything you say. So completely think through your thoughts before expressing them.
Oh, Stork, it's been way too long. My first, last, and best esports hero; the guy who got me into Starcraft, the guy who's kept me watching all through the years. He's by far the nicest, most genuine esports personality I know.
Stork is a player in the vein of Boxer; he's interested not just in winning games and getting prize money, but in maintaining professionalism and advancing the esports scene as a whole, making it a truly respectable and sustainable profession. Given this, his negative view on Afreeca streams makes sense, especially in a post-match-fixing Korean context, where respect and good behavior is incredibly important, and progaming is always in danger of being stigmatized as a dishonest and disreputable profession. The fact that despite producing bad results, he's still willing to continue working and playing and entertaining for the sake of the scene and esports is quite amazing. I'm sad to see that he's been facing problems with depression, but the way he's able to handle that and still keep going is...again, quite humbling.
In short, Stork is the man, and this interview proves it more than ever. Seeing Stork dominate a tournament again would be probably one of the four or five best things in the world. STORK FIGHTING!
On October 31 2013 00:20 lemmata wrote: As to be expected of a translation of a translation, the translation is pretty bad. That said, it is still an interesting interview.
Q: Are you envious of the retired players who are enjoying great popularity with fans by streaming? A: I am very down on these personal streams. It makes me sad to see these players ruin their own public image on stream. It is difficult to get a positive impression from such streams because even the players who were involved in the match-fixing scandal are streaming. I have a lot of pride as a pro gamer. When we played, 10s of thousands of people came to cheer. What those fans cheered for was ultimately the high-level of play shown by the players. Some of the streamers not only dispel the fantasy/mystique of pro gaming but also engage in behavior that regards fans as sources of money and nothing more. These players were perfectly normal people when they were pro gamers. It is tragic that they will debase themselves to such extent just for money. There's nothing wrong with streaming if your motives are pure, but I hope that no one will stream only for money. Of course, there are players who are indeed streaming with pure motives.
Stork seems to be mainly unhappy about streamers on Afreeca who are destroying the public image of pro gamers. If you watch those streams, many are constantly swearing, begging for money, treating fans who don't donate balloons like shit, and just overall acting like ignorant assholes. I think that Bisu/Mind/hero/killer probably behave decently for the most part. Sea's stream is pretty darn embarrassing at times, but he's far from the worst in terms of this behavior. There's been a conservative movement in Korea to include computer gaming as one of the 4 Great Evils of society to be targeted by the government (along with alcohol, drugs, and gambling). The public image of pro gamers is important to ensuring the survival of the industry.
I won't agree with everything Stork said, but he is 1) not condemning all streaming on Afreeca (only the ones embarrassing themselves and the pro gaming community) 2) saying that pro gamers should feel some personal responsibility to their profession.
Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.
I didnt watch afreeca stream, how is Sea stream embarassing?
On October 31 2013 00:20 lemmata wrote: As to be expected of a translation of a translation, the translation is pretty bad. That said, it is still an interesting interview.
Q: Are you envious of the retired players who are enjoying great popularity with fans by streaming? A: I am very down on these personal streams. It makes me sad to see these players ruin their own public image on stream. It is difficult to get a positive impression from such streams because even the players who were involved in the match-fixing scandal are streaming. I have a lot of pride as a pro gamer. When we played, 10s of thousands of people came to cheer. What those fans cheered for was ultimately the high-level of play shown by the players. Some of the streamers not only dispel the fantasy/mystique of pro gaming but also engage in behavior that regards fans as sources of money and nothing more. These players were perfectly normal people when they were pro gamers. It is tragic that they will debase themselves to such extent just for money. There's nothing wrong with streaming if your motives are pure, but I hope that no one will stream only for money. Of course, there are players who are indeed streaming with pure motives.
Stork seems to be mainly unhappy about streamers on Afreeca who are destroying the public image of pro gamers. If you watch those streams, many are constantly swearing, begging for money, treating fans who don't donate balloons like shit, and just overall acting like ignorant assholes. I think that Bisu/Mind/hero/killer probably behave decently for the most part. Sea's stream is pretty darn embarrassing at times, but he's far from the worst in terms of this behavior. There's been a conservative movement in Korea to include computer gaming as one of the 4 Great Evils of society to be targeted by the government (along with alcohol, drugs, and gambling). The public image of pro gamers is important to ensuring the survival of the industry.
I won't agree with everything Stork said, but he is 1) not condemning all streaming on Afreeca (only the ones embarrassing themselves and the pro gaming community) 2) saying that pro gamers should feel some personal responsibility to their profession.
Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.
I didnt watch afreeca stream, how is Sea stream embarassing?
Basically Stork is saying that you shouldn't pull any "charismatic" moves just to get money but that's the main reason why people would watch streamers in the first place because of their personalities.
On October 31 2013 02:37 supernovamaniac wrote: lemmata is on point here.
Stork doesn't criticize the concept of BW afreeca streaming. He condemns the progamers who break their previous image to beg for money, start cursing at fans, etc (and I can name a few).
That's why he also talks about the pride of being a progamer. He believes that if you were a progamer, even if you retire, you should keep your image infront of your fans. Especially if you're going to do personal streaming that involves the game that helped you gain the fans in the first place.
Yeah, based on the second translation, I suspect he's more thinking of people like Terror. And whoever it was that swimming in alcohol poured out on his floor and hammering hole in his wall 'for the fans.' Or was that all Terror? I don't remember anymore. Anyways, afreeca is for the most part cool with all the former progamers. But there is a dark underbelly where some of them will do anything degrading for money and I would agree it is very sad to see. Like watching Charlie Sheen's train wreck on camera except not nearly so psychadelic.
Also more ceremonies Too bad he doesn't win to show them.
On October 31 2013 00:20 lemmata wrote: As to be expected of a translation of a translation, the translation is pretty bad. That said, it is still an interesting interview.
Q: Are you envious of the retired players who are enjoying great popularity with fans by streaming? A: I am very down on these personal streams. It makes me sad to see these players ruin their own public image on stream. It is difficult to get a positive impression from such streams because even the players who were involved in the match-fixing scandal are streaming. I have a lot of pride as a pro gamer. When we played, 10s of thousands of people came to cheer. What those fans cheered for was ultimately the high-level of play shown by the players. Some of the streamers not only dispel the fantasy/mystique of pro gaming but also engage in behavior that regards fans as sources of money and nothing more. These players were perfectly normal people when they were pro gamers. It is tragic that they will debase themselves to such extent just for money. There's nothing wrong with streaming if your motives are pure, but I hope that no one will stream only for money. Of course, there are players who are indeed streaming with pure motives.
Stork seems to be mainly unhappy about streamers on Afreeca who are destroying the public image of pro gamers. If you watch those streams, many are constantly swearing, begging for money, treating fans who don't donate balloons like shit, and just overall acting like ignorant assholes. I think that Bisu/Mind/hero/killer probably behave decently for the most part. Sea's stream is pretty darn embarrassing at times, but he's far from the worst in terms of this behavior. There's been a conservative movement in Korea to include computer gaming as one of the 4 Great Evils of society to be targeted by the government (along with alcohol, drugs, and gambling). The public image of pro gamers is important to ensuring the survival of the industry.
I won't agree with everything Stork said, but he is 1) not condemning all streaming on Afreeca (only the ones embarrassing themselves and the pro gaming community) 2) saying that pro gamers should feel some personal responsibility to their profession.
Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.
I didnt watch afreeca stream, how is Sea stream embarassing?
Basically Stork is saying that you shouldn't pull any "charismatic" moves just to get money but that's the main reason why people would watch streamers in the first place because of their personalities.
That's not what he's saying at all, especially since he makes a point to talk about how it's the responsibility of professional players to show their personalities and be entertaining for the spectators. Stork of all people does hate everyone who's open or shows personality.
On October 31 2013 10:10 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
On October 31 2013 09:12 Sawamura wrote:
On October 31 2013 06:50 Xiphos wrote:
On October 31 2013 00:51 vthree wrote:
On October 30 2013 23:26 Xiphos wrote: It is very apparent that Stork is extremely jelly of BW streamers for enjoying themselves while making a living doing so. You can't expect people to stop playing BW if they "retire". That's imbecile on so many levels.
It is imbecile to judge someone based on a double translated interview....
On October 31 2013 02:42 OpticalShot wrote: I feel like these doubly-translated threads are baits for the direct translators to come out and clarify... well I'm baited.
Here's the original Korean text and my direct translation for the streaming part.
- 그래도 은퇴한 선수들은 개인방송을 통해서 팬들을 찾고 있잖아요. 인기가 장난이 아니던데, 부럽지는 않아요? ▶ 저는 개인방송에 대해서 굉장히 부정적이거든요. 방송에서 망가지는 모습을 보니까 안타까워요. 조작 사건과 관련된 선수도 방송을 하잖아요. 그러니 더더욱 개인방송에 대해 좋은 인상을 받기가 어렵죠. 저는 프로게이머로서의 프라이드가 강해요. 관중들이 한 둘씩 오는 것이 아니라 몇 만 명씩 와서 환호를 하잖아요. 그런 팬들이 좋아했던 것은 궁극적으로 그 선수의 플레이잖아요. 개인방송을 하는 사람들 중에 일부는 그런 환상을 모두 깨는 동시에, 팬들을 돈으로 보는 행동을 해요. 분명히 대회장에서 보면 정말 멀쩡했거든요. 그런데 돈을 위해 그렇게까지 변한다는 점이 무척 아쉬워요. 순수한 의도면 모를까 돈을 위한 방송은 하지 않았으면 좋겠어요. 물론 안 그런 선수들도 있지만요.
- Still, many retired progamers are interacting with their fans via their personal streams. [These streamers/streams] are quite popular, are you perhaps jealous of them?
▶ My view on those personal streams is very negative. It's sad to see them embarrass themselves in their broadcasts. Besides, even those associated with the matchfixing scandal are streaming, and that makes it even harder to view the streams in a positive light. I take great personal pride in being a progamer. Fans don't come one by one, they come by the tens of thousands to cheer [for the progamers/teams]. For those fans, the core motivation behind their loyalty is the player's skill. Some of the [ex-progamer] streamers shatter those images while broadcasting, and [even do things that show] they treat the fans as money [and nothing more]. All of these guys were perfectly fine before [when I met them / was with them in eSports stadiums/competitions]. That's why it's so disappointing to see these guys turn [into what I described above] just for money. Streaming for [enjoyment of the game, etc.] is fine, but I hope they don't stream for the sole purpose of making money. Of course, not all streamers are like that.
So in this case, the translation in the OP is not too far off... maybe this thread won't be closed like the iloveoov's lol.
Read it. Utter delusion and ineptitude to think that ex-pros don't need to create a captivating streaming persona in order to eat. Please consider all factors first before posting.
Got to agree with xiphos here the second translation from optical shot says that he is no beef with ex-programer streaming for the fun of playing it and well I am all for the greater good of playing the game for fun but there is a reason they are streaming in the first place . The ex-progamer does what he likes to do play Bw and on the sidelines people donate because they like what they are seeing and getting . Don't see how stork has a problem with that people got to eat and they don't have their usual monthly salary anymore...
Benefit of the doubt would be he saw 1a2a3a[fOu] and immediately began convulsing. When he came to, he decided he needed a drink, but on the way he met the interviewer and he decided that he might as well kill two birds with one stone. But seriously, I doubt he's an idiot. Ex-pros trying to make ends meet while still living the dream should be tolerable to him. Only a fool would be as purist as people seem to think Stork is.
Drinking alcohol + unclear criticism on streamers = killing two birds with one stone? M'kay...
A lenient analysis would be that Stork drank too much that he wasn't able to iterate his idea as well as sober. That's the absolute best case scenario one can think of. But we, as readers can't assume that so we have to accept that there are consequences for everything you say. So completely think through your thoughts before expressing them.
I was joking. Only an idiot would think that Stork's plan was to drown his sorrows in alcohol and go on a drunken rant during an interview.
Great interview. I've always thought that being a pro-gamer is very difficult, there's just not much future in it. On one hand, you want to see your favourite progamer play but on the other hand they are subjected to harsh training and not much life beyond that. They have no where to transition to after their career ends. They probably have no (higher) education, no prior work experience, so they probably would have to start from scratch.
I also agreed with Stork's statement regarding Afreeca streaming. Although some say that it's beneficial for SC:BW revival, I think his point is the streamers are embarassing themselves on stream just for money. Instead of being professional they are clowning around entertaining the fans just for balloons. For example, I've tuned into Bisu's stream a few times and it hurts me to see him fake excitement for a dollar balloon(s) and thanking the fans endlessly. If he wants to thank the fans like he said he should show that by playing good games and perhaps being more professional rather than being an entertainer. Regarding other streamers, let's just say they are more clowny than him. My image of Korean pro(fessional) gamers have somewhat been shattered by their streaming. Bisu hit me hardest
So a proud guy. We need more players like him...who are proud of being a progamer and not begging for money by being attention ****. Play the game with passion and love or leave it alone.
Dunno why people are so butthurt over Stork dissing the Afreeca scene. While I love constant BW streaming by former pros, I think he feels that its basically destroying the former prestige broodwar had. Not gonna argue if thats a good thing or not, but he has a point, and he feels the work he put in the past 10 years to grow the scene starting to become in vain. A lot of them are younger than him, so I guess that has something to do with it too.
Not to say, one of the original streamers on Afreeca were Terror and Savior, and they don't necessarily foster a nice image for the Neo Broodwar scene...and maybe Stork's mind got locked on that image.
On October 30 2013 21:47 amazingxkcd wrote: Can't believe that I'm saying this, but Stork really does need to get off his high horse of bashing afreeca streamers who are reviving BW. his stance that the streamers are corrupting themselves is on bad foundations when these streamers are leading the pathway for BW coming back into the spotlight, even though the scene itself is less rigid than what KeSPA had in place.
I think he's disappointed in that they gave up on the new challenge that came with SC2 to go back to what they know. I'm not saying he's necessarily right or wrong in his opinion on Afreeca, but I think I'd be disappointed too. Stork's approach to the game is inspiring, though. I certainly didn't think he'd still be around.
That is strange and sounds wine-sided. You know well that It's not about the challenge it's more about entertainment that a game brings. And, honestly, what Stork has achieved in SC2 so far does not deserve to be watched.
On October 31 2013 14:49 cutler wrote: So a proud guy. We need more players like him...who are proud of being a progamer and not begging for money by being attention ****. Play the game with passion and love or leave it alone.
Stork plays SC2 as if it is the last game he ever wanted to play, so much for passion and love.
I didn't like the interview, mostly because I could not see any integrity in it or healthy ideas. Really scattered thoughts of a famed progamer who slowly buries his career while simultaneously trying to deny it. Hiding in demagogy and talking something about pride and future when it looks like 95% of SC2 viewers are not koreans. Sad reality is that Stork would not even be noticed in SC2 world if not for his BW career which he tries to overgrow.
Sounds like the Samsung house has become a really toxic environment. I don't like that he is seeing a psychiatrist and taking drugs to try to deal with it.
As far as the comments on Afreeca, I don't think they need to be taken too seriously given the context. After having a drink or two and generally being stressed from his circumstances, that is just him letting out his frustrations. I think he's more confused about figuring out what he really wants to do than anything else. The "easiest" thing is to just stay where he is and keep practicing, but he probably needs to take his own advice and make the next step in his life. The trouble is how to do that with nothing but 'progamer' on your resume. The guys on Afreeca aren't all rich. They're basically biding their time until they go to the military.
Stork is pretty awesome. It's cool to hear at least a few of the really old-school players admitting that SC2 has the potential to be a good game if the players work hard. I agree with his point that the players need to have more present personalities. Aside from their race and play style there is basically nothing to differentiate them outside of the booth.
On October 31 2013 00:20 lemmata wrote: As to be expected of a translation of a translation, the translation is pretty bad. That said, it is still an interesting interview.
Q: Are you envious of the retired players who are enjoying great popularity with fans by streaming? A: I am very down on these personal streams. It makes me sad to see these players ruin their own public image on stream. It is difficult to get a positive impression from such streams because even the players who were involved in the match-fixing scandal are streaming. I have a lot of pride as a pro gamer. When we played, 10s of thousands of people came to cheer. What those fans cheered for was ultimately the high-level of play shown by the players. Some of the streamers not only dispel the fantasy/mystique of pro gaming but also engage in behavior that regards fans as sources of money and nothing more. These players were perfectly normal people when they were pro gamers. It is tragic that they will debase themselves to such extent just for money. There's nothing wrong with streaming if your motives are pure, but I hope that no one will stream only for money. Of course, there are players who are indeed streaming with pure motives.
Stork seems to be mainly unhappy about streamers on Afreeca who are destroying the public image of pro gamers. If you watch those streams, many are constantly swearing, begging for money, treating fans who don't donate balloons like shit, and just overall acting like ignorant assholes. I think that Bisu/Mind/hero/killer probably behave decently for the most part. Sea's stream is pretty darn embarrassing at times, but he's far from the worst in terms of this behavior. There's been a conservative movement in Korea to include computer gaming as one of the 4 Great Evils of society to be targeted by the government (along with alcohol, drugs, and gambling). The public image of pro gamers is important to ensuring the survival of the industry.
I won't agree with everything Stork said, but he is 1) not condemning all streaming on Afreeca (only the ones embarrassing themselves and the pro gaming community) 2) saying that pro gamers should feel some personal responsibility to their profession.
Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.
I didnt watch afreeca stream, how is Sea stream embarassing?
Before Bisu (and other gamers of note) arrived and brought some mainstream BW fans with them, I've heard Sea occasionally praise Savior for no reason. Sometimes he would be talking about something completely different and suddenly segue into a non sequitur about Savior's handsome looks, awesome fashion sense, and what not... Sea would even go as far as to "put up a shield" for Savior by saying that the match-fixing scandal had no impact on him and he doesn't understand why people would say that it cause the fall of BW. One can only imagine that he was aiming to extract balloons from crazy Savior fanatics who followed him to Afreeca. We can also imagine that someone like iloveoov or Stork would want to punch Sea in the face after hearing such bull.
Sea is constantly saying [expletives redacted---just in case there are people who are too delicate and precious for such words] and sometimes uses these words to insult his viewers. I am not a prude, but using foul language does not enhance your image unless you can do it intelligently like George Carlin.
Sea uses those words to insult the people who have not given him balloons. When he gets into an argument with the viewers in his channel, he will blacklist them immediately if they are not in his "fan club" (which means they donated 1 or more balloons). If that viewer has an icon that says he has donated a balloon, Sea will check the Afreeca records to see how many balloons this viewer has donated to him. If the amount donated is small, he will direct foul language at the viewer and blacklist him. If the amount donated is large, he will prostrate himself and beg for forgiveness while doing this really embarrassing "cutie sea" act. However, to me what is more embarrassing is the fact that he is so crass in the way he so openly and explicitly discriminates between viewers based on how much they have given him. Most people will treat their patrons well, but they wouldn't do it in such a crass way.
Sea also sometimes tries to elicit pity balloons from his viewers in ways that are embarrassing because his intentions seem so transparent no matter how much he tries to hide them.
There's also the fact that he sometimes streams without washing his face or brushing his teeth. There are clothes strewn about his room, which reveal that his room is a bit of a pigsty.
That said, there are worse BJs...
Boxer's generation worked really hard to change the image of gamers, who were previously viewed in Korea as uneducated addicts who were lacking in class and social graces. Progamers became icons of the unadulterated and wholesome passion of the youth to an extent. If one of the grumpy old men who bemoaned the rise of professional gaming in Korea saw Sea's (or many other) BJ's streams today, he might put in his false teeth so that he could grumble "I told you so".
So---yeah---Stork is not completely off base about this.
I think that Bisu's stream is okay (there are a couple other decent streams as well). I see that Bisu is lonely (wtf?), sucks at singing, and has a terrible sense of humor, but he treats his viewers with respect (although he gets playful at times) and doesn't really say anything controversial.
Seems like every pro gamer from Brood War wants to emulate Liquid Hero I recall Bisu saying the same thing when he first switched over. And also, that picture of TaekBangLeeSsang is too awesome.
On October 31 2013 00:20 lemmata wrote: As to be expected of a translation of a translation, the translation is pretty bad. That said, it is still an interesting interview.
Q: Are you envious of the retired players who are enjoying great popularity with fans by streaming? A: I am very down on these personal streams. It makes me sad to see these players ruin their own public image on stream. It is difficult to get a positive impression from such streams because even the players who were involved in the match-fixing scandal are streaming. I have a lot of pride as a pro gamer. When we played, 10s of thousands of people came to cheer. What those fans cheered for was ultimately the high-level of play shown by the players. Some of the streamers not only dispel the fantasy/mystique of pro gaming but also engage in behavior that regards fans as sources of money and nothing more. These players were perfectly normal people when they were pro gamers. It is tragic that they will debase themselves to such extent just for money. There's nothing wrong with streaming if your motives are pure, but I hope that no one will stream only for money. Of course, there are players who are indeed streaming with pure motives.
Stork seems to be mainly unhappy about streamers on Afreeca who are destroying the public image of pro gamers. If you watch those streams, many are constantly swearing, begging for money, treating fans who don't donate balloons like shit, and just overall acting like ignorant assholes. I think that Bisu/Mind/hero/killer probably behave decently for the most part. Sea's stream is pretty darn embarrassing at times, but he's far from the worst in terms of this behavior. There's been a conservative movement in Korea to include computer gaming as one of the 4 Great Evils of society to be targeted by the government (along with alcohol, drugs, and gambling). The public image of pro gamers is important to ensuring the survival of the industry.
I won't agree with everything Stork said, but he is 1) not condemning all streaming on Afreeca (only the ones embarrassing themselves and the pro gaming community) 2) saying that pro gamers should feel some personal responsibility to their profession.
Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.
I didnt watch afreeca stream, how is Sea stream embarassing?
Before Bisu (and other gamers of note) arrived and brought some mainstream BW fans with them, I've heard Sea occasionally praise Savior for no reason. Sometimes he would be talking about something completely different and suddenly segue into a non sequitur about Savior's handsome looks, awesome fashion sense, and what not... Sea would even go as far as to "put up a shield" for Savior by saying that the match-fixing scandal had no impact on him and he doesn't understand why people would say that it cause the fall of BW. One can only imagine that he was aiming to extract balloons from crazy Savior fanatics who followed him to Afreeca. We can also imagine that someone like iloveoov or Stork would want to punch Sea in the face after hearing such bull.
Sea is constantly saying [expletives redacted---just in case there are people who are too delicate and precious for such words] and sometimes uses these words to insult his viewers. I am not a prude, but using foul language does not enhance your image unless you can do it intelligently like George Carlin.
Sea uses those words to insult the people who have not given him balloons. When he gets into an argument with the viewers in his channel, he will blacklist them immediately if they are not in his "fan club" (which means they donated 1 or more balloons). If that viewer has an icon that says he has donated a balloon, Sea will check the Afreeca records to see how many balloons this viewer has donated to him. If the amount donated is small, he will direct foul language at the viewer and blacklist him. If the amount donated is large, he will prostrate himself and beg for forgiveness while doing this really embarrassing "cutie sea" act. However, to me what is more embarrassing is the fact that he is so crass in the way he so openly and explicitly discriminates between viewers based on how much they have given him. Most people will treat their patrons well, but they wouldn't do it in such a crass way.
Sea also sometimes tries to elicit pity balloons from his viewers in ways that are embarrassing because his intentions seem so transparent no matter how much he tries to hide them.
There's also the fact that he sometimes streams without washing his face or brushing his teeth. There are clothes strewn about his room, which reveal that his room is a bit of a pigsty.
That said, there are worse BJs...
Boxer's generation worked really hard to change the image of gamers, who were previously viewed in Korea as uneducated addicts who were lacking in class and social graces. Progamers became icons of the unadulterated and wholesome passion of the youth to an extent. If one of the grumpy old men who bemoaned the rise of professional gaming in Korea saw Sea's (or many other) BJ's streams today, he might put in his false teeth so that he could grumble "I told you so".
So---yeah---Stork is not completely off base about this.
I think that Bisu's stream is okay (there are a couple other decent streams as well). I see that Bisu is lonely (wtf?), sucks at singing, and has a terrible sense of humor, but he treats his viewers with respect (although he gets playful at times) and doesn't really say anything controversial.
wow that *is* bad, reality TV doesn't even come close how could someone do something so ugly and not die of embarrassment
On October 31 2013 00:20 lemmata wrote: As to be expected of a translation of a translation, the translation is pretty bad. That said, it is still an interesting interview.
Q: Are you envious of the retired players who are enjoying great popularity with fans by streaming? A: I am very down on these personal streams. It makes me sad to see these players ruin their own public image on stream. It is difficult to get a positive impression from such streams because even the players who were involved in the match-fixing scandal are streaming. I have a lot of pride as a pro gamer. When we played, 10s of thousands of people came to cheer. What those fans cheered for was ultimately the high-level of play shown by the players. Some of the streamers not only dispel the fantasy/mystique of pro gaming but also engage in behavior that regards fans as sources of money and nothing more. These players were perfectly normal people when they were pro gamers. It is tragic that they will debase themselves to such extent just for money. There's nothing wrong with streaming if your motives are pure, but I hope that no one will stream only for money. Of course, there are players who are indeed streaming with pure motives.
Stork seems to be mainly unhappy about streamers on Afreeca who are destroying the public image of pro gamers. If you watch those streams, many are constantly swearing, begging for money, treating fans who don't donate balloons like shit, and just overall acting like ignorant assholes. I think that Bisu/Mind/hero/killer probably behave decently for the most part. Sea's stream is pretty darn embarrassing at times, but he's far from the worst in terms of this behavior. There's been a conservative movement in Korea to include computer gaming as one of the 4 Great Evils of society to be targeted by the government (along with alcohol, drugs, and gambling). The public image of pro gamers is important to ensuring the survival of the industry.
I won't agree with everything Stork said, but he is 1) not condemning all streaming on Afreeca (only the ones embarrassing themselves and the pro gaming community) 2) saying that pro gamers should feel some personal responsibility to their profession.
Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.
I didnt watch afreeca stream, how is Sea stream embarassing?
Before Bisu (and other gamers of note) arrived and brought some mainstream BW fans with them, I've heard Sea occasionally praise Savior for no reason. Sometimes he would be talking about something completely different and suddenly segue into a non sequitur about Savior's handsome looks, awesome fashion sense, and what not... Sea would even go as far as to "put up a shield" for Savior by saying that the match-fixing scandal had no impact on him and he doesn't understand why people would say that it cause the fall of BW. One can only imagine that he was aiming to extract balloons from crazy Savior fanatics who followed him to Afreeca. We can also imagine that someone like iloveoov or Stork would want to punch Sea in the face after hearing such bull.
Sea is constantly saying [expletives redacted---just in case there are people who are too delicate and precious for such words] and sometimes uses these words to insult his viewers. I am not a prude, but using foul language does not enhance your image unless you can do it intelligently like George Carlin.
Sea uses those words to insult the people who have not given him balloons. When he gets into an argument with the viewers in his channel, he will blacklist them immediately if they are not in his "fan club" (which means they donated 1 or more balloons). If that viewer has an icon that says he has donated a balloon, Sea will check the Afreeca records to see how many balloons this viewer has donated to him. If the amount donated is small, he will direct foul language at the viewer and blacklist him. If the amount donated is large, he will prostrate himself and beg for forgiveness while doing this really embarrassing "cutie sea" act. However, to me what is more embarrassing is the fact that he is so crass in the way he so openly and explicitly discriminates between viewers based on how much they have given him. Most people will treat their patrons well, but they wouldn't do it in such a crass way.
Sea also sometimes tries to elicit pity balloons from his viewers in ways that are embarrassing because his intentions seem so transparent no matter how much he tries to hide them.
There's also the fact that he sometimes streams without washing his face or brushing his teeth. There are clothes strewn about his room, which reveal that his room is a bit of a pigsty.
That said, there are worse BJs...
Boxer's generation worked really hard to change the image of gamers, who were previously viewed in Korea as uneducated addicts who were lacking in class and social graces. Progamers became icons of the unadulterated and wholesome passion of the youth to an extent. If one of the grumpy old men who bemoaned the rise of professional gaming in Korea saw Sea's (or many other) BJ's streams today, he might put in his false teeth so that he could grumble "I told you so".
So---yeah---Stork is not completely off base about this.
I think that Bisu's stream is okay (there are a couple other decent streams as well). I see that Bisu is lonely (wtf?), sucks at singing, and has a terrible sense of humor, but he treats his viewers with respect (although he gets playful at times) and doesn't really say anything controversial.
Holy shit that are quite some accusations. For an ex-KeSPA pro at least. I would not have expected this out of Sea.
On October 31 2013 00:20 lemmata wrote: As to be expected of a translation of a translation, the translation is pretty bad. That said, it is still an interesting interview.
Q: Are you envious of the retired players who are enjoying great popularity with fans by streaming? A: I am very down on these personal streams. It makes me sad to see these players ruin their own public image on stream. It is difficult to get a positive impression from such streams because even the players who were involved in the match-fixing scandal are streaming. I have a lot of pride as a pro gamer. When we played, 10s of thousands of people came to cheer. What those fans cheered for was ultimately the high-level of play shown by the players. Some of the streamers not only dispel the fantasy/mystique of pro gaming but also engage in behavior that regards fans as sources of money and nothing more. These players were perfectly normal people when they were pro gamers. It is tragic that they will debase themselves to such extent just for money. There's nothing wrong with streaming if your motives are pure, but I hope that no one will stream only for money. Of course, there are players who are indeed streaming with pure motives.
Stork seems to be mainly unhappy about streamers on Afreeca who are destroying the public image of pro gamers. If you watch those streams, many are constantly swearing, begging for money, treating fans who don't donate balloons like shit, and just overall acting like ignorant assholes. I think that Bisu/Mind/hero/killer probably behave decently for the most part. Sea's stream is pretty darn embarrassing at times, but he's far from the worst in terms of this behavior. There's been a conservative movement in Korea to include computer gaming as one of the 4 Great Evils of society to be targeted by the government (along with alcohol, drugs, and gambling). The public image of pro gamers is important to ensuring the survival of the industry.
I won't agree with everything Stork said, but he is 1) not condemning all streaming on Afreeca (only the ones embarrassing themselves and the pro gaming community) 2) saying that pro gamers should feel some personal responsibility to their profession.
Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.
I didnt watch afreeca stream, how is Sea stream embarassing?
Before Bisu (and other gamers of note) arrived and brought some mainstream BW fans with them, I've heard Sea occasionally praise Savior for no reason. Sometimes he would be talking about something completely different and suddenly segue into a non sequitur about Savior's handsome looks, awesome fashion sense, and what not... Sea would even go as far as to "put up a shield" for Savior by saying that the match-fixing scandal had no impact on him and he doesn't understand why people would say that it cause the fall of BW. One can only imagine that he was aiming to extract balloons from crazy Savior fanatics who followed him to Afreeca. We can also imagine that someone like iloveoov or Stork would want to punch Sea in the face after hearing such bull.
Sea is constantly saying [expletives redacted---just in case there are people who are too delicate and precious for such words] and sometimes uses these words to insult his viewers. I am not a prude, but using foul language does not enhance your image unless you can do it intelligently like George Carlin.
Sea uses those words to insult the people who have not given him balloons. When he gets into an argument with the viewers in his channel, he will blacklist them immediately if they are not in his "fan club" (which means they donated 1 or more balloons). If that viewer has an icon that says he has donated a balloon, Sea will check the Afreeca records to see how many balloons this viewer has donated to him. If the amount donated is small, he will direct foul language at the viewer and blacklist him. If the amount donated is large, he will prostrate himself and beg for forgiveness while doing this really embarrassing "cutie sea" act. However, to me what is more embarrassing is the fact that he is so crass in the way he so openly and explicitly discriminates between viewers based on how much they have given him. Most people will treat their patrons well, but they wouldn't do it in such a crass way.
Sea also sometimes tries to elicit pity balloons from his viewers in ways that are embarrassing because his intentions seem so transparent no matter how much he tries to hide them.
There's also the fact that he sometimes streams without washing his face or brushing his teeth. There are clothes strewn about his room, which reveal that his room is a bit of a pigsty.
That said, there are worse BJs...
Boxer's generation worked really hard to change the image of gamers, who were previously viewed in Korea as uneducated addicts who were lacking in class and social graces. Progamers became icons of the unadulterated and wholesome passion of the youth to an extent. If one of the grumpy old men who bemoaned the rise of professional gaming in Korea saw Sea's (or many other) BJ's streams today, he might put in his false teeth so that he could grumble "I told you so".
So---yeah---Stork is not completely off base about this.
I think that Bisu's stream is okay (there are a couple other decent streams as well). I see that Bisu is lonely (wtf?), sucks at singing, and has a terrible sense of humor, but he treats his viewers with respect (although he gets playful at times) and doesn't really say anything controversial.
Wow, that's just disgraceful. While I can understand the need for money, man's gotta eat and all, but still. I'm speechless. Not knowing any Korean at all seems to be a blessing sometimes. But now I'm curious of any more streamers like that.
On October 31 2013 00:20 lemmata wrote: As to be expected of a translation of a translation, the translation is pretty bad. That said, it is still an interesting interview.
Q: Are you envious of the retired players who are enjoying great popularity with fans by streaming? A: I am very down on these personal streams. It makes me sad to see these players ruin their own public image on stream. It is difficult to get a positive impression from such streams because even the players who were involved in the match-fixing scandal are streaming. I have a lot of pride as a pro gamer. When we played, 10s of thousands of people came to cheer. What those fans cheered for was ultimately the high-level of play shown by the players. Some of the streamers not only dispel the fantasy/mystique of pro gaming but also engage in behavior that regards fans as sources of money and nothing more. These players were perfectly normal people when they were pro gamers. It is tragic that they will debase themselves to such extent just for money. There's nothing wrong with streaming if your motives are pure, but I hope that no one will stream only for money. Of course, there are players who are indeed streaming with pure motives.
Stork seems to be mainly unhappy about streamers on Afreeca who are destroying the public image of pro gamers. If you watch those streams, many are constantly swearing, begging for money, treating fans who don't donate balloons like shit, and just overall acting like ignorant assholes. I think that Bisu/Mind/hero/killer probably behave decently for the most part. Sea's stream is pretty darn embarrassing at times, but he's far from the worst in terms of this behavior. There's been a conservative movement in Korea to include computer gaming as one of the 4 Great Evils of society to be targeted by the government (along with alcohol, drugs, and gambling). The public image of pro gamers is important to ensuring the survival of the industry.
I won't agree with everything Stork said, but he is 1) not condemning all streaming on Afreeca (only the ones embarrassing themselves and the pro gaming community) 2) saying that pro gamers should feel some personal responsibility to their profession.
Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.
I didnt watch afreeca stream, how is Sea stream embarassing?
Before Bisu (and other gamers of note) arrived and brought some mainstream BW fans with them, I've heard Sea occasionally praise Savior for no reason. Sometimes he would be talking about something completely different and suddenly segue into a non sequitur about Savior's handsome looks, awesome fashion sense, and what not... Sea would even go as far as to "put up a shield" for Savior by saying that the match-fixing scandal had no impact on him and he doesn't understand why people would say that it cause the fall of BW. One can only imagine that he was aiming to extract balloons from crazy Savior fanatics who followed him to Afreeca. We can also imagine that someone like iloveoov or Stork would want to punch Sea in the face after hearing such bull.
Sea is constantly saying [expletives redacted---just in case there are people who are too delicate and precious for such words] and sometimes uses these words to insult his viewers. I am not a prude, but using foul language does not enhance your image unless you can do it intelligently like George Carlin.
Sea uses those words to insult the people who have not given him balloons. When he gets into an argument with the viewers in his channel, he will blacklist them immediately if they are not in his "fan club" (which means they donated 1 or more balloons). If that viewer has an icon that says he has donated a balloon, Sea will check the Afreeca records to see how many balloons this viewer has donated to him. If the amount donated is small, he will direct foul language at the viewer and blacklist him. If the amount donated is large, he will prostrate himself and beg for forgiveness while doing this really embarrassing "cutie sea" act. However, to me what is more embarrassing is the fact that he is so crass in the way he so openly and explicitly discriminates between viewers based on how much they have given him. Most people will treat their patrons well, but they wouldn't do it in such a crass way.
Sea also sometimes tries to elicit pity balloons from his viewers in ways that are embarrassing because his intentions seem so transparent no matter how much he tries to hide them.
There's also the fact that he sometimes streams without washing his face or brushing his teeth. There are clothes strewn about his room, which reveal that his room is a bit of a pigsty.
That said, there are worse BJs...
Boxer's generation worked really hard to change the image of gamers, who were previously viewed in Korea as uneducated addicts who were lacking in class and social graces. Progamers became icons of the unadulterated and wholesome passion of the youth to an extent. If one of the grumpy old men who bemoaned the rise of professional gaming in Korea saw Sea's (or many other) BJ's streams today, he might put in his false teeth so that he could grumble "I told you so".
So---yeah---Stork is not completely off base about this.
I think that Bisu's stream is okay (there are a couple other decent streams as well). I see that Bisu is lonely (wtf?), sucks at singing, and has a terrible sense of humor, but he treats his viewers with respect (although he gets playful at times) and doesn't really say anything controversial.
Wow, that's just disgraceful. While I can understand the need for money, man's gotta eat and all, but still. I'm speechless. Not knowing any Korean at all seems to be a blessing sometimes. But now I'm curious of any more streamers like that.
It's disgraceful, but I actually don't think that Sea is a bad person, and mostly feel really sorry for Sea. It is painfully obvious that he is essentially a child with zero experience in the real world and societal interactions outside the context of pro gaming. Sea just doesn't know any better and I bet that no one bothered to teach him about these little things that most of us pick up in regular interactions with people at school, work, etc. He sounds like a 9th grader most of the time. To me, it is sadder that the pro gaming industry never prepared the players for life after gaming when the average career probably lasts a lot less than 5 years.
On October 31 2013 00:20 lemmata wrote: As to be expected of a translation of a translation, the translation is pretty bad. That said, it is still an interesting interview.
Q: Are you envious of the retired players who are enjoying great popularity with fans by streaming? A: I am very down on these personal streams. It makes me sad to see these players ruin their own public image on stream. It is difficult to get a positive impression from such streams because even the players who were involved in the match-fixing scandal are streaming. I have a lot of pride as a pro gamer. When we played, 10s of thousands of people came to cheer. What those fans cheered for was ultimately the high-level of play shown by the players. Some of the streamers not only dispel the fantasy/mystique of pro gaming but also engage in behavior that regards fans as sources of money and nothing more. These players were perfectly normal people when they were pro gamers. It is tragic that they will debase themselves to such extent just for money. There's nothing wrong with streaming if your motives are pure, but I hope that no one will stream only for money. Of course, there are players who are indeed streaming with pure motives.
Stork seems to be mainly unhappy about streamers on Afreeca who are destroying the public image of pro gamers. If you watch those streams, many are constantly swearing, begging for money, treating fans who don't donate balloons like shit, and just overall acting like ignorant assholes. I think that Bisu/Mind/hero/killer probably behave decently for the most part. Sea's stream is pretty darn embarrassing at times, but he's far from the worst in terms of this behavior. There's been a conservative movement in Korea to include computer gaming as one of the 4 Great Evils of society to be targeted by the government (along with alcohol, drugs, and gambling). The public image of pro gamers is important to ensuring the survival of the industry.
I won't agree with everything Stork said, but he is 1) not condemning all streaming on Afreeca (only the ones embarrassing themselves and the pro gaming community) 2) saying that pro gamers should feel some personal responsibility to their profession.
Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.
I didnt watch afreeca stream, how is Sea stream embarassing?
Before Bisu (and other gamers of note) arrived and brought some mainstream BW fans with them, I've heard Sea occasionally praise Savior for no reason. Sometimes he would be talking about something completely different and suddenly segue into a non sequitur about Savior's handsome looks, awesome fashion sense, and what not... Sea would even go as far as to "put up a shield" for Savior by saying that the match-fixing scandal had no impact on him and he doesn't understand why people would say that it cause the fall of BW. One can only imagine that he was aiming to extract balloons from crazy Savior fanatics who followed him to Afreeca. We can also imagine that someone like iloveoov or Stork would want to punch Sea in the face after hearing such bull.
Sea is constantly saying [expletives redacted---just in case there are people who are too delicate and precious for such words] and sometimes uses these words to insult his viewers. I am not a prude, but using foul language does not enhance your image unless you can do it intelligently like George Carlin.
Sea uses those words to insult the people who have not given him balloons. When he gets into an argument with the viewers in his channel, he will blacklist them immediately if they are not in his "fan club" (which means they donated 1 or more balloons). If that viewer has an icon that says he has donated a balloon, Sea will check the Afreeca records to see how many balloons this viewer has donated to him. If the amount donated is small, he will direct foul language at the viewer and blacklist him. If the amount donated is large, he will prostrate himself and beg for forgiveness while doing this really embarrassing "cutie sea" act. However, to me what is more embarrassing is the fact that he is so crass in the way he so openly and explicitly discriminates between viewers based on how much they have given him. Most people will treat their patrons well, but they wouldn't do it in such a crass way.
Sea also sometimes tries to elicit pity balloons from his viewers in ways that are embarrassing because his intentions seem so transparent no matter how much he tries to hide them.
There's also the fact that he sometimes streams without washing his face or brushing his teeth. There are clothes strewn about his room, which reveal that his room is a bit of a pigsty.
That said, there are worse BJs...
Boxer's generation worked really hard to change the image of gamers, who were previously viewed in Korea as uneducated addicts who were lacking in class and social graces. Progamers became icons of the unadulterated and wholesome passion of the youth to an extent. If one of the grumpy old men who bemoaned the rise of professional gaming in Korea saw Sea's (or many other) BJ's streams today, he might put in his false teeth so that he could grumble "I told you so".
So---yeah---Stork is not completely off base about this.
I think that Bisu's stream is okay (there are a couple other decent streams as well). I see that Bisu is lonely (wtf?), sucks at singing, and has a terrible sense of humor, but he treats his viewers with respect (although he gets playful at times) and doesn't really say anything controversial.
Wow, that's just disgraceful. While I can understand the need for money, man's gotta eat and all, but still. I'm speechless. Not knowing any Korean at all seems to be a blessing sometimes. But now I'm curious of any more streamers like that.
It's disgraceful, but I actually don't think that Sea is a bad person, and mostly feel really sorry for Sea. It is painfully obvious that he is essentially a child with zero experience in the real world and societal interactions outside the context of pro gaming. Sea just doesn't know any better and I bet that no one bothered to teach him about these little things that most of us pick up in regular interactions with people at school, work, etc. He sounds like a 9th grader most of the time. To me, it is sadder that the pro gaming industry never prepared the players for life after gaming when the average career probably lasts a lot less than 5 years.
That actually makes sense. I have just remembered an interview with Oov where he mentioned similar circumstances. That progamers are somewhat disenchanted from the real life, and only know how to play games. Although it begs the question, since all of them are in similar situation, how come some of them (like Stork, Oov, NaDa) sound pretty reasonable and seem to have "the best of both worlds" (gaming and IRL) and othres end up like Sea? While I wouldn't like to derail this thread (it's about Stork and his awsomeness ) I just thought it touched upon really intresting topics. Cheers
On October 31 2013 00:20 lemmata wrote: As to be expected of a translation of a translation, the translation is pretty bad. That said, it is still an interesting interview.
Q: Are you envious of the retired players who are enjoying great popularity with fans by streaming? A: I am very down on these personal streams. It makes me sad to see these players ruin their own public image on stream. It is difficult to get a positive impression from such streams because even the players who were involved in the match-fixing scandal are streaming. I have a lot of pride as a pro gamer. When we played, 10s of thousands of people came to cheer. What those fans cheered for was ultimately the high-level of play shown by the players. Some of the streamers not only dispel the fantasy/mystique of pro gaming but also engage in behavior that regards fans as sources of money and nothing more. These players were perfectly normal people when they were pro gamers. It is tragic that they will debase themselves to such extent just for money. There's nothing wrong with streaming if your motives are pure, but I hope that no one will stream only for money. Of course, there are players who are indeed streaming with pure motives.
Stork seems to be mainly unhappy about streamers on Afreeca who are destroying the public image of pro gamers. If you watch those streams, many are constantly swearing, begging for money, treating fans who don't donate balloons like shit, and just overall acting like ignorant assholes. I think that Bisu/Mind/hero/killer probably behave decently for the most part. Sea's stream is pretty darn embarrassing at times, but he's far from the worst in terms of this behavior. There's been a conservative movement in Korea to include computer gaming as one of the 4 Great Evils of society to be targeted by the government (along with alcohol, drugs, and gambling). The public image of pro gamers is important to ensuring the survival of the industry.
I won't agree with everything Stork said, but he is 1) not condemning all streaming on Afreeca (only the ones embarrassing themselves and the pro gaming community) 2) saying that pro gamers should feel some personal responsibility to their profession.
Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.
I didnt watch afreeca stream, how is Sea stream embarassing?
Before Bisu (and other gamers of note) arrived and brought some mainstream BW fans with them, I've heard Sea occasionally praise Savior for no reason. Sometimes he would be talking about something completely different and suddenly segue into a non sequitur about Savior's handsome looks, awesome fashion sense, and what not... Sea would even go as far as to "put up a shield" for Savior by saying that the match-fixing scandal had no impact on him and he doesn't understand why people would say that it cause the fall of BW. One can only imagine that he was aiming to extract balloons from crazy Savior fanatics who followed him to Afreeca. We can also imagine that someone like iloveoov or Stork would want to punch Sea in the face after hearing such bull.
Sea is constantly saying [expletives redacted---just in case there are people who are too delicate and precious for such words] and sometimes uses these words to insult his viewers. I am not a prude, but using foul language does not enhance your image unless you can do it intelligently like George Carlin.
Sea uses those words to insult the people who have not given him balloons. When he gets into an argument with the viewers in his channel, he will blacklist them immediately if they are not in his "fan club" (which means they donated 1 or more balloons). If that viewer has an icon that says he has donated a balloon, Sea will check the Afreeca records to see how many balloons this viewer has donated to him. If the amount donated is small, he will direct foul language at the viewer and blacklist him. If the amount donated is large, he will prostrate himself and beg for forgiveness while doing this really embarrassing "cutie sea" act. However, to me what is more embarrassing is the fact that he is so crass in the way he so openly and explicitly discriminates between viewers based on how much they have given him. Most people will treat their patrons well, but they wouldn't do it in such a crass way.
Sea also sometimes tries to elicit pity balloons from his viewers in ways that are embarrassing because his intentions seem so transparent no matter how much he tries to hide them.
There's also the fact that he sometimes streams without washing his face or brushing his teeth. There are clothes strewn about his room, which reveal that his room is a bit of a pigsty.
That said, there are worse BJs...
Boxer's generation worked really hard to change the image of gamers, who were previously viewed in Korea as uneducated addicts who were lacking in class and social graces. Progamers became icons of the unadulterated and wholesome passion of the youth to an extent. If one of the grumpy old men who bemoaned the rise of professional gaming in Korea saw Sea's (or many other) BJ's streams today, he might put in his false teeth so that he could grumble "I told you so".
So---yeah---Stork is not completely off base about this.
I think that Bisu's stream is okay (there are a couple other decent streams as well). I see that Bisu is lonely (wtf?), sucks at singing, and has a terrible sense of humor, but he treats his viewers with respect (although he gets playful at times) and doesn't really say anything controversial.
Wow, that's just disgraceful. While I can understand the need for money, man's gotta eat and all, but still. I'm speechless. Not knowing any Korean at all seems to be a blessing sometimes. But now I'm curious of any more streamers like that.
It's disgraceful, but I actually don't think that Sea is a bad person, and mostly feel really sorry for Sea. It is painfully obvious that he is essentially a child with zero experience in the real world and societal interactions outside the context of pro gaming. Sea just doesn't know any better and I bet that no one bothered to teach him about these little things that most of us pick up in regular interactions with people at school, work, etc. He sounds like a 9th grader most of the time. To me, it is sadder that the pro gaming industry never prepared the players for life after gaming when the average career probably lasts a lot less than 5 years.
That actually makes sense. I have just remembered an interview with Oov where he mentioned similar circumstances. That progamers are somewhat disenchanted from the real life, and only know how to play games. Although it begs the question, since all of them are in similar situation, how come some of them (like Stork, Oov, NaDa) sound pretty reasonable and seem to have "the best of both worlds" (gaming and IRL) and othres end up like Sea? While I wouldn't like to derail this thread (it's about Stork and his awsomeness ) I just thought it touched upon really intresting topics. Cheers
I have a theory that it is related to the following broad categories. 1) Diversity/size of original fan base 2) Corporate image-making incentives of the team sponsors 3) Guidance of older pro gamers 4) Differences in natural inclinations
The superstars of Brood War had a larger, more diverse fan bases than other players. Sea was a very good player, but was never a superstar. Stars with large fan bases instinctively learn not to offend subgroups of their fan bases. Furthermore, when they do make mistakes in public, they are made targets of criticism, which is a signal for them to correct their behavior. Players like JangBi and Stork both made and learned from their mistakes. People watched and enjoyed Sea's games, but he was outside of the public consciousness for the most part and did not receive a similar level of scrutiny. Bisu was such a mega superstar that he even appeared on network television, which is a huge deal. SKT would not have sent him out on such a stage without some guidance beforehand.
Teams like SKT/KT/Samsung (to a lesser extent Pantech) actively used their Brood War teams in their marketing strategies. These corporations had an incentive to make sure that their players would behave with some level of decorum in public or keep their mouths shut.
Some players received a lot more guidance from the older gamers. Think about how Boxer groomed iloveoov. It was said that Boxer also planned for Bisu to be the public face of T1. Other old gamers are also known to be grounded and thus good mentors (like Yellow, Reach, etc.). If you were lucky enough to have those guys' behavior rub off on you, then you are probably better off.
Of course, some people just have it and others don't. If you saw Yellow on the "The Genius" game show, then you would have agreed that the man is just a born survivor who can handle all of life's curve balls. Aside: Yellow is so awesome. Bisu has mentioned on his stream that Sea is extremely talented and even used to place ahead of Bisu in amateur tournaments. However, Sea apparently never practiced as hard as the other gamers when he was with Bisu on the MBC team. Perhaps Sea was less mature than most people to begin with.
However, even the better-prepared gamers have trouble with adjusting to life after retirement. There was that interview with Yellow, NaDa, and Nal_ra, where all of them said that they were befuddled by how unprepared they were for life after pro-gaming.
Finally, the differences between Bisu and Sea forms an interesting natural experiment on the effects of nurture versus nature. + Show Spoiler +
Sea and Bisu started out on the same pro team. They also attended the same high school, which was recently featured on Korean television as a school for "problem children" who had run out of second chances. They chose that school because it allowed them to skip school for pro-gaming activities. So both of them were deprived of character-building teenage experiences. However, Bisu does not behave crassly on his stream like Sea does. Bisu had advantages related to points #1, #2, #3 (and likely #4 as well) over Sea. I wonder what would have happened if Sea was on T1 and whipped into shape by oov and Boxer. Perhaps he would have become Fantasy instead of Fantasy.
I've made a lot of excuses for Sea here, but that doesn't change the fact that his behavior (and that of some other BJs) has been disgraceful and hurts pro-gaming overall---and by pro-gaming I include the potential revival of the Brood War scene. I say that as someone who desperately wishes for that revival. However, the responsibility for the immaturity of these ex-gamer man-children who are adults in name only must be shared by all. Of course, Sea is ultimately responsible for his own behavior, but there is still enough blame left over to go around.
I've been thinking a lot lately about what sort of conditions are necessary for the long-term (50+ years) sustainability of an eSports category (be it Brood War/SC2/LoL/DoTA2/whatever). Preparing non-superstars for life after retirement is probably one of the big pieces of that puzzle...
Interesting posts by Iemmata From them, we can conclude that, in the brood war kespa scene, there was an immense gap in structure and professionalism between the kespa teams Or maybe only the superstars received any kind of real life 'coaching'/guidance, whatever the team?
On October 31 2013 00:20 lemmata wrote: As to be expected of a translation of a translation, the translation is pretty bad. That said, it is still an interesting interview.
Q: Are you envious of the retired players who are enjoying great popularity with fans by streaming? A: I am very down on these personal streams. It makes me sad to see these players ruin their own public image on stream. It is difficult to get a positive impression from such streams because even the players who were involved in the match-fixing scandal are streaming. I have a lot of pride as a pro gamer. When we played, 10s of thousands of people came to cheer. What those fans cheered for was ultimately the high-level of play shown by the players. Some of the streamers not only dispel the fantasy/mystique of pro gaming but also engage in behavior that regards fans as sources of money and nothing more. These players were perfectly normal people when they were pro gamers. It is tragic that they will debase themselves to such extent just for money. There's nothing wrong with streaming if your motives are pure, but I hope that no one will stream only for money. Of course, there are players who are indeed streaming with pure motives.
Stork seems to be mainly unhappy about streamers on Afreeca who are destroying the public image of pro gamers. If you watch those streams, many are constantly swearing, begging for money, treating fans who don't donate balloons like shit, and just overall acting like ignorant assholes. I think that Bisu/Mind/hero/killer probably behave decently for the most part. Sea's stream is pretty darn embarrassing at times, but he's far from the worst in terms of this behavior. There's been a conservative movement in Korea to include computer gaming as one of the 4 Great Evils of society to be targeted by the government (along with alcohol, drugs, and gambling). The public image of pro gamers is important to ensuring the survival of the industry.
I won't agree with everything Stork said, but he is 1) not condemning all streaming on Afreeca (only the ones embarrassing themselves and the pro gaming community) 2) saying that pro gamers should feel some personal responsibility to their profession.
Finally, I just want to say that this interview made me so sad. Reading between the lines, it seems that Stork has been dealing with some serious depression issues that required treatment. When he says that the medicine he was prescribed (by a psychiatrist) contributed to his weight gain, I cannot help but think that it is also affecting his level of play by inhibiting certain neural pathways.
I didnt watch afreeca stream, how is Sea stream embarassing?
Before Bisu (and other gamers of note) arrived and brought some mainstream BW fans with them, I've heard Sea occasionally praise Savior for no reason. Sometimes he would be talking about something completely different and suddenly segue into a non sequitur about Savior's handsome looks, awesome fashion sense, and what not... Sea would even go as far as to "put up a shield" for Savior by saying that the match-fixing scandal had no impact on him and he doesn't understand why people would say that it cause the fall of BW. One can only imagine that he was aiming to extract balloons from crazy Savior fanatics who followed him to Afreeca. We can also imagine that someone like iloveoov or Stork would want to punch Sea in the face after hearing such bull.
Sea is constantly saying [expletives redacted---just in case there are people who are too delicate and precious for such words] and sometimes uses these words to insult his viewers. I am not a prude, but using foul language does not enhance your image unless you can do it intelligently like George Carlin.
Sea uses those words to insult the people who have not given him balloons. When he gets into an argument with the viewers in his channel, he will blacklist them immediately if they are not in his "fan club" (which means they donated 1 or more balloons). If that viewer has an icon that says he has donated a balloon, Sea will check the Afreeca records to see how many balloons this viewer has donated to him. If the amount donated is small, he will direct foul language at the viewer and blacklist him. If the amount donated is large, he will prostrate himself and beg for forgiveness while doing this really embarrassing "cutie sea" act. However, to me what is more embarrassing is the fact that he is so crass in the way he so openly and explicitly discriminates between viewers based on how much they have given him. Most people will treat their patrons well, but they wouldn't do it in such a crass way.
Sea also sometimes tries to elicit pity balloons from his viewers in ways that are embarrassing because his intentions seem so transparent no matter how much he tries to hide them.
There's also the fact that he sometimes streams without washing his face or brushing his teeth. There are clothes strewn about his room, which reveal that his room is a bit of a pigsty.
That said, there are worse BJs...
Boxer's generation worked really hard to change the image of gamers, who were previously viewed in Korea as uneducated addicts who were lacking in class and social graces. Progamers became icons of the unadulterated and wholesome passion of the youth to an extent. If one of the grumpy old men who bemoaned the rise of professional gaming in Korea saw Sea's (or many other) BJ's streams today, he might put in his false teeth so that he could grumble "I told you so".
So---yeah---Stork is not completely off base about this.
I think that Bisu's stream is okay (there are a couple other decent streams as well). I see that Bisu is lonely (wtf?), sucks at singing, and has a terrible sense of humor, but he treats his viewers with respect (although he gets playful at times) and doesn't really say anything controversial.
Wow, that's just disgraceful. While I can understand the need for money, man's gotta eat and all, but still. I'm speechless. Not knowing any Korean at all seems to be a blessing sometimes. But now I'm curious of any more streamers like that.
It's disgraceful, but I actually don't think that Sea is a bad person, and mostly feel really sorry for Sea. It is painfully obvious that he is essentially a child with zero experience in the real world and societal interactions outside the context of pro gaming. Sea just doesn't know any better and I bet that no one bothered to teach him about these little things that most of us pick up in regular interactions with people at school, work, etc. He sounds like a 9th grader most of the time. To me, it is sadder that the pro gaming industry never prepared the players for life after gaming when the average career probably lasts a lot less than 5 years.
That actually makes sense. I have just remembered an interview with Oov where he mentioned similar circumstances. That progamers are somewhat disenchanted from the real life, and only know how to play games. Although it begs the question, since all of them are in similar situation, how come some of them (like Stork, Oov, NaDa) sound pretty reasonable and seem to have "the best of both worlds" (gaming and IRL) and othres end up like Sea? While I wouldn't like to derail this thread (it's about Stork and his awsomeness ) I just thought it touched upon really intresting topics. Cheers
I have a theory that it is related to the following broad categories. 1) Diversity/size of original fan base 2) Corporate image-making incentives of the team sponsors 3) Guidance of older pro gamers 4) Differences in natural inclinations
The superstars of Brood War had a larger, more diverse fan bases than other players. Sea was a very good player, but was never a superstar. Stars with large fan bases instinctively learn not to offend subgroups of their fan bases. Furthermore, when they do make mistakes in public, they are made targets of criticism, which is a signal for them to correct their behavior. Players like JangBi and Stork both made and learned from their mistakes. People watched and enjoyed Sea's games, but he was outside of the public consciousness for the most part and did not receive a similar level of scrutiny. Bisu was such a mega superstar that he even appeared on network television, which is a huge deal. SKT would not have sent him out on such a stage without some guidance beforehand.
Teams like SKT/KT/Samsung (to a lesser extent Pantech) actively used their Brood War teams in their marketing strategies. These corporations had an incentive to make sure that their players would behave with some level of decorum in public or keep their mouths shut.
Some players received a lot more guidance from the older gamers. Think about how Boxer groomed iloveoov. It was said that Boxer also planned for Bisu to be the public face of T1. Other old gamers are also known to be grounded and thus good mentors (like Yellow, Reach, etc.). If you were lucky enough to have those guys' behavior rub off on you, then you are probably better off.
Of course, some people just have it and others don't. If you saw Yellow on the "The Genius" game show, then you would have agreed that the man is just a born survivor who can handle all of life's curve balls. Aside: Yellow is so awesome. Bisu has mentioned on his stream that Sea is extremely talented and even used to place ahead of Bisu in amateur tournaments. However, Sea apparently never practiced as hard as the other gamers when he was with Bisu on the MBC team. Perhaps Sea was less mature than most people to begin with.
However, even the better-prepared gamers have trouble with adjusting to life after retirement. There was that interview with Yellow, NaDa, and Nal_ra, where all of them said that they were befuddled by how unprepared they were for life after pro-gaming.
Finally, the differences between Bisu and Sea forms an interesting natural experiment on the effects of nurture versus nature. + Show Spoiler +
Sea and Bisu started out on the same pro team. They also attended the same high school, which was recently featured on Korean television as a school for "problem children" who had run out of second chances. They chose that school because it allowed them to skip school for pro-gaming activities. So both of them were deprived of character-building teenage experiences. However, Bisu does not behave crassly on his stream like Sea does. Bisu had advantages related to points #1, #2, #3 (and likely #4 as well) over Sea. I wonder what would have happened if Sea was on T1 and whipped into shape by oov and Boxer. Perhaps he would have become Fantasy instead of Fantasy.
I've made a lot of excuses for Sea here, but that doesn't change the fact that his behavior (and that of some other BJs) has been disgraceful and hurts pro-gaming overall---and by pro-gaming I include the potential revival of the Brood War scene. I say that as someone who desperately wishes for that revival. However, the responsibility for the immaturity of these ex-gamer man-children who are adults in name only must be shared by all. Of course, Sea is ultimately responsible for his own behavior, but there is still enough blame left over to go around.
I've been thinking a lot lately about what sort of conditions are necessary for the long-term (50+ years) sustainability of an eSports category (be it Brood War/SC2/LoL/DoTA2/whatever). Preparing non-superstars for life after retirement is probably one of the big pieces of that puzzle...
EPT![[image loading]](http://img1.cache.netease.com/game/starcraft2/news/201310/80.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img1.cache.netease.com/game/starcraft2/news/201310/80b.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img1.cache.netease.com/game/starcraft2/news/201310/80a.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img1.cache.netease.com/game/starcraft2/news/201310/80c.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img1.cache.netease.com/game/starcraft2/news/201310/80d.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img1.cache.netease.com/game/starcraft2/news/201310/80f.jpg)
JuNi left the team and seemed to retire 
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/post-14673-1190868925.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mPdRJGX.jpg)
) I just thought it touched upon really intresting topics. Cheers 
