EPTAnd if 2vs2 was the solution for StarCraft 2 ? - Page 5
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
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DinosaurJones
United States1000 Posts
In my 2v2 games, I am High Diamond/Low Masters with my teammate. For clarification's sake, he is ranked High Masters in 1v1 while I am only High Gold/Low Plat. But we both enjoy 2v2s way more than laddering. One thing that we've come to notice a lot though is that almost every game is a rush/timing attack. My friend and I rarely ever cheese, we usually go for long macro style, I play Z and he plays P. We have a decent win ratio, about 70%. Usually if we can hold off the timing, we win. It is very rare that we lose macro games. But I also tend to notice a lot more BM in 2s as well, I think people get mad when their timing doesn't work, and they don't know how to recover after it. I love macro games, but it's very rare to get them, because in most cases our opponents do a timing, win and BM, or lose and also BM. We take the BM in stride, but I don't know what it is in team games that causes more of it. Though it's pretty fun when the opposing team starts calling out their teammate in all chat. We also play 3s with another of our friends who is god-awful. I'm talking copper league awful. When we play 3s, my 2s partner and I usually roll random. But it's just more of the same... rushes/timing attacks. I feel that team games could be more interesting if people actually macroed. I think the map pool has a lot to do with it, but it's rare to see a macro game in team games for whatever reason. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On October 09 2013 00:50 PiPiGranDe wrote: to be honest and with no offence intended... the people saying that 2s isn't balanced and that there is a build that beats everything or a certain combination of races that beat the other races.. is just people that have never played high high masters. these people probably loss to silly builds (double 6 pool.. canon rush + lings.. etc) or lose to very standard builds (lings/hellions, reaper/stalker) and just say the game in 2s is unbalanced. i could also say that 4 gate is unbalanced too anything lower than platinum/diamond. i have beaten protech numerous times in the past in 2s and have also played 2s with him. i'm sure he will agree with me that 2s for the most part is balanced. just a little bit less than 1s. bottom line is: there is no build that beats everything or combination of races that beat others. See my previous post which everyone seems to have ignored: + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=431516¤tpage=2#21 There are most certainly things in 2v2 that are disproportionately good on certain maps/instances for certain MUs. And just for the record, protech isn't the end all be all of 2v2. You shouldn't look to him to explain balance to you... lol | ||
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ElMeanYo
United States1032 Posts
On October 09 2013 02:20 Thieving Magpie wrote: How about a 3v3 no rush map, have three main lanes of attacks but give each player towers to help defe- wait a minute! LoL! | ||
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psychotics
United States184 Posts
On October 08 2013 22:01 OneSpeed wrote: Did you come straight from a league stream with a giant LoL stick up yours? Stop fantasizing your own reality. SC2 is in ever growth and will surpass the trendy game for youngsters which is League of legends. ummm starcraft2 tournament viewer numbers have been on a decline for months now? he's right its not going to ever be as popular as LoL unless something drastic happens in LoL or SC2 that changes viewers. | ||
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DinosaurJones
United States1000 Posts
We usually don't veto any of the maps, but there are definitely some we like more than others. | ||
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gingerfluffmuff
Austria4570 Posts
Thx for making us all smile a little while :D. | ||
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
On October 08 2013 22:41 TeslasPigeon wrote: SC2 isn't just an accessible game for the vast majority of video gamers. You can blame this on game mechanics or modes, you aren't going to pull in a playerbase that there was 3 years ago. People need to accept this fact and focus on making the game more enjoyable for the existing audience because it is dwindling every time a major new game is released. This isn't 2004, RTS as a genre is nearly dead. You can only innovate so much before players just move onto other enjoyable games. to be fair, DotA is one of the lesser "refreshing" and "creative" games. Sure it has lots of different heroes, but in the end its just different animations playing the same mechanics.There are only so many different strats and ways to win one can come up with in dota. Same obviously goes for LoL. Same obviously goes for football, yet, somehow, Its huge. Remove that bumstick please  | ||
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Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
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MattD
United Kingdom83 Posts
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UniQ.eu
Sweden82 Posts
It would add another layer of skill eniterly; coordination. Watching one tem infuse chaos attacking not 3, but 6 places at once would be great. Watching a medivac save those isolated HTs would be great etc. I hope there will come more 2v2 tournaments with good commentators and observers! | ||
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DinosaurJones
United States1000 Posts
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PiPiGranDe
Canada70 Posts
On October 09 2013 02:24 -Kyo- wrote: See my previous post which everyone seems to have ignored: + Show Spoiler + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=431516¤tpage=2#21 There are most certainly things in 2v2 that are disproportionately good on certain maps/instances for certain MUs. And just for the record, protech isn't the end all be all of 2v2. You shouldn't look to him to explain balance to you... lol kyo i agree with you that certain mu and builds work better than others depending on map. but you can say the exact same thing in 1s. canon rushing is better is X map compared to Y map. drop play/muta/air protoss os a better strategy in X map compared to Y map... and so on. protech is definitely not a god. i used him as an example cus #1 he is a rigure known to the community that plays a lot of 2s and #2 he is ranked high in 2s... which means that he can give you good insight in high level 2s play, just like me. | ||
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lookfirewood
1212 Posts
2vs2 are more complex than 1vs1 in the way it has more combinations, most in early game. Easily fixed with distances and starting positions. You really dont have to share bases as long as the maps are built with the volatile all-ins in mind. Remember steppes of war (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Steppes_of_War), an initial ladder map for 1vs1 in Wings of Liberty. A good example of why 2vs2 maps need be revised due to distances and starting positions, and the more people moan about the balance on the maps, the more the maps will be revised. As with 1vs1! Only 1vs1 will be alot quicker because it gets more exposure. But I see no reasons for 1vs1 to _compete_ with 2vs2, they can co-exist. So let 2vs2 have it's pace and if people believe in it, it'll grow. Back in brood war, my favourite tournaments where the clanwars (back in the clanbase years), where a clan match were 3 1vs1 bo3's and 2 2vs2 bo3's. The best 1vs1 players we're not necessarily on the 2vs2 teams for good reasons and so on... Those clanwars were just for fun, price money maybe for the winners, and it wasn't big. If the 2vs2 entusiasts can take that, then, in time, 2vs2 might end up in a good spot for getting alot of exposure. So what we need is a persistent/consistent tournament/clanwar that attracts players and their teams, with or without cashmoneyz, a cornerstone that press the issues with 2vs2. Even with their own maps for balance sake (this will remove practice on the ladder, which is a bad thing considering the small volume of players that will participate in the tournament to start with). But as I see it, if the big picture is to play 2vs2 because it's challenging and fun, 2vs2 will be fine wherever it'll end up. But if the main goal is to "grow", and in worst case, to outgrow other games/formats, then bigger things need to happen. Huge sponsors need to step in and people who devote their life to 2vs2 will need to be carrying the 2vs2flag! Just my two cents. | ||
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-IeZaeL-
Spain327 Posts
 .No tournaments & terrible maps... thats why all the good 2v2 players are not playing anymore. | ||
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HornyHerring
Papua New Guinea1059 Posts
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Big G
Italy835 Posts
Anyway, 2v2 is all but balanced. First of all, maps suck: I lost the count of the perfect spots for cannon rushes and siege tank. Just yesterday I learned that on Resupply Tanker you can cannon rush the opponents' main base from HIGH ground, with pylons covered by the natural's mineral patch and geyser. I mean, that's smart, isn't it? I really need to congratulate the map designer asap! Apart from that, there is no reason to have the same units stats for 1v1 and team games. Blizzard should consider to balance separately each game mode. | ||
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Crackpot
58 Posts
StarCraft should stay on its roots. In Broodwar you had to be much more hardcore to be a fan. StarCraft has to be difference than other games, thats the only way it can show that its something special. The Solution for StarCraft 2 is: - make it for free (at least in korea) - leave WCS-korea to kespa - | ||
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illusiongamer
Mexico377 Posts
On October 09 2013 02:20 Thieving Magpie wrote: How about a 3v3 no rush map, have three main lanes of attacks but give each player towers to help defe- wait a minute! thank you sir | ||
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IPA
United States3206 Posts
On October 09 2013 02:45 NEEDZMOAR wrote: to be fair, DotA is probably the least "refreshing" and "creative" game. Sure have lots of different heroes, but in the end its just different animations for doing the same thing over and over again. Man, this was painful to read. One of the more idiotic things I've read on TL lately, and that's saying something. | ||
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