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And if 2vs2 was the solution for StarCraft 2 ? - Page 10
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FLORIDACOMPACT
Germany108 Posts
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Sylfyre
Australia222 Posts
2v2 might be awkward in it's current form, and 1v1 will probably always be the biggest focus for an RTS, but how can any of the issues be identified and even considered if it's never tried? But hell, who wants enthusiasm/some sort of suggestion about having fun in the game anyway? It's not about being the biggest game or anything like that, it's just making something else in the game that can be fun/good. | ||
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FLORIDACOMPACT
Germany108 Posts
On October 13 2013 18:43 Sylfyre wrote: I don't understand, here's someone coming out with a form of enthusiasm, saying "hey, I have an idea, I'm gunna have the balls to put it out there and say it in a fairly positive way" Sure, he includes analogies from LoL/DotA which aren't really that great to add and don't prove much of a point. 2v2 might be awkward in it's current form, and 1v1 will probably always be the biggest focus for an RTS, but how can any of the issues be identified and even considered if it's never tried? But hell, who wants enthusiasm/some sort of suggestion about having fun in the game anyway? It's not about being the biggest game or anything like that, it's just making something else in the game that can be fun/good. 2v2 isn't awkward in its current form in any way. and there are hardly any issues with 2v2 except some shitty maps. and to kyo: i've seen you got shit on by protech literally everytime you and futs run into him on stream. that is, you lost to him like everytime with AT vs RT (+ his random race). | ||
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HotShizz
France710 Posts
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Caladan
Germany1238 Posts
In SCBW, the focus was also on 1v1 but 2v2 was compared to now HUGE. There was one or even two 2v2s in every clan war/nation war. In some league even a 2v2 and a 3v3! It was pretty nice and spiced things a bit up for every clan war. Really sad, that 2v2 doesn't cut it in SC2. | ||
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lessQQmorePEWPEW
Jamaica921 Posts
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DropTester
Australia608 Posts
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Kheve
323 Posts
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Luisa_2
Germany200 Posts
Starcraft will always be a 1v1 game on a professional level and nothing else. Teamgames is/might be a lot of fun to play but it's bound to a rather casual level. | ||
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FLORIDACOMPACT
Germany108 Posts
On October 13 2013 20:02 Luisa_2 wrote: There is a reason why people have winrates like 997 to 3. It's the simply they know exploitive builds on every map in any matchup, with good/decent mechanics. Starcraft will always be a 1v1 game on a professional level and nothing else. Teamgames is/might be a lot of fun to play but it's bound to a rather casual level. That is horse poo at its finest. The reason stats like 7x:x happen is because of ATs going versus RTs most of the time with the combination of the bad map pool: 1) shared base with a ramp bigger than the ego of IdrA. 2) no shared bases with super short rush distance (like reclamation) or its bigger brother (not that worse): resupply bunker. What's holding back 2s is: AT vs RT is bullshit most of the time, the map pool and the broken matchmaking system. Other than that it's just fine. It's being played just about as much as 1s: 70k RT players, 130k teams AT compared to about 300k players. Those numbers are global, taken from nios.kr. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
The biggest question would be: Are we then balancing this game for 2v2 or 1v1 gameplay? I'll take my cap and say goodbye for the next game that keeps 1v1 balanced, should these ideas be accepted by Blizzard. There's only so much you can do with maps. Eventually the predominant 2v2 strategies would be called to be nerfed (hellion speedling comes to mind, but is more impacted by map choice ... watch Protech for any length of time to fill in the other dominant ones). Is 2x2 balanced? MAINLY, YES! After some thousand games, I'm pretty certain that 2x2 is quite balanced. Even if in WoL, TZ cheese was freaking good against protoss, with the mama core and oracle, it's now more balanced, but of course, you have to do proper veto map depending the race you are playing. Protoss players shouldn't keep separated base map for example... ZZ shouldn't keep map where they can't expand, and so on... The build order are also slightly different from 1x1, just as a Protoss than I am, I feel like 9 ou 12 scout is ALWAYS quiet important... The only balanced problem that I know, are feeded strats and some eco cheese when an opponent leave the game at start. But that can be easily fixed by blizzard Also, I insist that in my point of view, 3x3 and 4x4 are losing a lot of interest, when I talk about teamgames, I'm mainly talking about 2x2 in SC2 and LoL 3x3 and 5x5... Do what ever you want, you will never be a good 2x2 player if you don't have a good macro, macro also exist at 100 % in 2x2, just as in 1x1 ! All the games I play goes in macro but CAN start with some pressure (3 stalkers reapers for example) and it's in general easy to win if people all-in us, cuz we know how to hold it. I also would like to end by this. A lot of ppl use to say "OMG 2x2 is for noobs, you get reach master with stupid cheese and no skills". Well, it's true that you can reach master by cheese, but just FYI, it's the same for 1x1. And to all people saying taht 2x2 requires no skill, just try to stay one whole season in top master 2x2 AND with a record of more than 60/40, then you will realise how dumb you were. It looks like you're comparing 2v2 balance with how it used to exist back in WoL and not how it compares to 1v1 balance. It is not about cheese and it is not about how far good macro carries you in leagues. It is examination of the winning team comps; it is the teams that are run in the tournaments that involve them. Skilled players play the race they're skilled at, but there are clear winners and losers in the 2v2 realm. I find your suggestions more appropriate for the other half of the RTS spectrum: Several "races," small differences between them. They lend themselves to RTS team atmospheres much more readily. | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
On October 13 2013 20:02 Luisa_2 wrote: There is a reason why people have winrates like 997 to 3. It's the simply they know exploitive builds on every map in any matchup, with good/decent mechanics. Starcraft will always be a 1v1 game on a professional level and nothing else. Teamgames is/might be a lot of fun to play but it's bound to a rather casual level. Totally disagree. I've played many rts at a high level and they are all very fun/fair/competitive in 2v2! Unless you're a top master 2v2 player, you really have no right to even make such comments. I agree with the original post. There's really nothing stopping people from giving 2v2 a try, other than not being familiar with a different style of gaming. But a little tournament exposure (including some 2v2 games for money at 1v1 tournaments) would be fantastic. | ||
kaos00
United States125 Posts
On October 08 2013 21:57 torm wrote: You need to accept that starcraft 2 is not a _popular_ game. It is a challenging game that requires a lot of time investment. It's never going to be on the same level as LoL, never. Accept it and love it for the niche game it is and will continue to be and quit coming up with improbable solutions grounded in fantasy. Why the hate for this guys post? It's truth. It's an extremely challenging and competitive 1v1 game. It's great for spectating and following favorite players(imo it beats Dota/LoL in this department) but not friendly to casual gamers. There is going to be no solution to make SC2 half as popular as MOBA's because of this fact. Don't hate any opinion counter to yours and recognize truth when it's thrown at it. Just enjoy SC2 for what it is. | ||
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TRaFFiC
Canada1448 Posts
On October 13 2013 20:47 kaos00 wrote: Why the hate for this guys post? It's truth. It's an extremely challenging and competitive 1v1 game. It's great for spectating and following favorite players(imo it beats Dota/LoL in this department) but not friendly to casual gamers. There is going to be no solution to make SC2 half as popular as MOBA's because of this fact. Don't hate any opinion counter to yours and recognize truth when it's thrown at it. Just enjoy SC2 for what it is. Look at the first sentence. "Sc2 is not a popular game." That is not true. Millions of people play it. It has DECLINING popularity. So the first line of his post is a stupid lie. Why? He probably has some psychological issues. Then he goes on to say anything which will boost sc2 popularity is "improbable" and "based in fantasy." Who wants to hear such a negative opinion in a thread made with POSTITIVE input... | ||
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Aunvilgod
2653 Posts
I would, however, like a MicroMacro style 2v2 very much. I wish Blizzard would include that as an official game mode for LotV. | ||
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DinosaurPoop
687 Posts
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Swwww
Switzerland812 Posts
On October 08 2013 22:41 TeslasPigeon wrote: This isn't 2004, RTS as a genre is nearly dead. You can only innovate so much before players just move onto other enjoyable games. I agree. Blizzard has done absolutely nothing to innovate sc2 the only thing keeping sc2 alive is the community which is becoming smaller and smaller as time goes on. | ||
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Salient
United States876 Posts
* PS: LoTV will bring in more players and some of them will stay. | ||
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DinosaurPoop
687 Posts
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2vs2.Zepiii
Belgium134 Posts
On October 13 2013 06:36 kcNight wrote: I don't really agree with this. Gaemtoss and aNai are ranked high with ZZ because the 2v2 scene is mostly unexplored and noncompetitive. Historically TZ has been the strongest composition by a significant margin in 2v2 and I'm pretty sure this is still the case. (although nobody can be certain with how unexplored 2v2 actually is). In the current state of the 2v2 scene pretty much any 2 grandmaster level players can get themselves ranked very high with any race combo, but that doesnt mean it is balanced. That being said i do really like some of the matchups in 2v2, and even if it winds up resulting in TZ mirrors a lot of the time I would love to see more competitiveness in 2v2. I agree with you Night, it may not be enough explored. But here, all the people complaining that it's not balanced are talking about cheese that are unstoppable from their point of view, but with proper veto, there are 0 cheese that are unstoppable. Also, people talk about combo that are weaker, but if I compare it to LoL, it's exactly the same thing that if you choose 2 wrong heros vs 2 good heros. I still think that TZ is the best combo and easier to play but that doesn't mean that 2x2 can't be competitive !  | ||
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