This translated interview is a slightly shortened version of the DES's interview about Bisu, the first interview after Bisu’s retirement. As always, it is important to note about the things that lost during the two translation processes.
“Don’t want to talk about the past alone.”
Bisu is not the type of person who likes accepting interviews. So when he was not performing well during the SC2 period, he denied our interview requests.
“As a progamer, if I can only talk about the past but not the present, it is a bad thing for my fans and myself. If we are only going to talk about the past, the interview will be limited. I need time to clean my thoughts about the present and the future.”
After the retirement, there is no information about Bisu. He knew that fans are disappointed. But he also needs time.
“Please do not misunderstand (smile). It’s because of my personality. People worried about me and some people misunderstood me. I didn’t want to disappear from the public. I was just worrying how to explain my situation to my fans. Of course, my worry is not completely resolved at the moment. But at least, I can say what I want to say to my fans now.”
So this time, he accepts the interview request immediately. He thinks that if he keeps not saying anything to his fans, it will be rude.
“Fans left, so did my heart.”
Bisu loves SC1 more than anyone. But due to the overall environment, he had to transition into SC2. It makes him very tired. But the support of fans makes him hang on even when facing difficulties.
“I am not good at expressing myself, but honestly I thank my fans as always. Entering a venue full of fans makes my heart pound. Playing games in a venue full of fans’ cheering for you is such a happy thing to do. In this kind of environment, even it is hard, I can still keep my resolve.”
But after SPL transitioned into SC2, the number of fans in the live events reduced to less than half in a month.
“It’s not only me. Other players felt the same. When seeing an empty venue, it is really hard to find the right sense of competition. When we see no fans, then it is meaningless to train so hard to play competitively.”
The rapid loss of fans was unexpected by many people including Bisu. Bisu thought that fans will return eventually. But one day he realized that fans truly left.
“Fans are leaving continually. What’s the meaning of me keep playing. My heart is empty. It is such a feeling of void that I have never experienced during SC1. Being a progamer can no longer make my heart pound.”
At the end of the season, Bisu had the thought of retiring. He finally realized that the support of fans is his biggest reason of continuing the road of progaming.
As a member of the TaekBangLeeSsang, the burden is unimaginable
Before Bisu retired, no one asked him “why?”. The reaction of Flash, Jaedong, and Stork was the same. Because they all knew why, so no one tried to stop Bisu.
“To be honest, even if Flash and Stork announce retirement right now, I will not be surprised. People who know them personally are not going to be surprised. Our burden is beyond people’s imagination.”
If Bisu is a b-teamer, he probably will not retire. But as a member of the TaekBangLeeSsang, the representatives of best of the best in esports, the attention is tremendous.
“I have a burden to prove myself. Losing games gives me even more of these burdens. I couldn't see the hope of improvement and I couldn't get rid of this burden. So, I retired. I hope the other three members of TaekBangLeeSsang can perform well. The fans also hope them do well, right? I just hope people can show more encouragement and support for them and less criticism, because only the love of fans can sustain the life of progamer.”
"I am very and hope fans are happy as well"
When he decided to retire and when his teammates said "You must be tired from working hard (Thank you for your hard work)", he couldn't help crying. Bisu now knows that the only way to repay the fans and people in esports is to let people see his happiness.
“I want to thank my fans for all the love that I received, so I decided to stream on Afreeca. I can be closer to my fans, so I can still play until I leave. Through streaming, I can play my favorite SC1, and I can also convey my happiness. And fans are happy as well.”
Bisu has not yet gotten used to SC1, so he will improve and let fans see his superior mechanics like before. When he gets back to certain level, he will consider to participate in Sonic Starleague.
“If I go to tournament with the performance now, then fans will be disappointed. I will practice hard and play exciting games for fans. This is the reason that I stream on Afreeca. Some people said that I just want more money, but I only want to deliver my happiness and sincereness, so it doesn't matter if some people said those things.”
"I am very happy I can leave with so many happy memories. No matter what I do in the future, the memory of 'the progamer Bisu' will always be there. I will not forget these. I wish everyone is health and happy. Thank you for all the people who cherish and care for me."
DES promised additional Bisu interview content today, but these two pieces are all that I see on their page, so I guess this is all they were talking about.
First one:
Kim Taek-Yong: "Coach Lim Yo-Hwan, I'm very sorry"
Kim Taek-Yong (Bisu), who retired recently, expressed his apologies to former SK Telecom T1 coach Lim Yo-Hwan (Boxer).
He said, "Shorty after my retirement, I heard that coach Lim Yo-Hwan had left the team. It felt like he had left because of me, so I felt bad about it."
Lim Yo-Hwan's care for Kim Taek-Yong was extraordinary. Placing importance on elements beyond just match results, he placed great expectations upon Kim Taek-Yong. He had even given him the title "Post Lim Yo-Hwan".
When Lim Yo-Hwan took the role of SK Telecom's head coach, his most urgent priority was to get Kim Taek-Yong back on track. Last season of Proleague, in order to improve Kim Taek-Yong's results in Starcraft 2, he told him, "I won't send you out in rounds 2 and 3, so prepare well for Heart of the Swarm."
Kim Taek-Yong was well aware that Lim Yo-Hwan was investing a great deal in reviving him. In order to respond to this trust, he stayed up late practicing for Heart of the Swarm.
However, the results were not good, and even up to the moment of retirement, Kim Taek-Yong was very sorry toward Lim Yo-Hwan who had placed so much trust in him. He was not able to tell him, and it stayed in his mind even after leaving the team.
Kim Taek-Yong said, "To coach Lim Yo-Hwan who invested so much in me without hesitation, I am forever grateful and sorry. I hope that he will do well in whatever he chooses from now on."
Kim Taek-Yong told us of his regrets and advice regarding e-sports.
Prior to his retirement, as a member of "TaekBangLeeSsang" leading the world of e-sports, Kim Taek-Yong had feelings of sadness regarding the current league system. He had the opinion that the current problems were due to an inability to satisfy the content-hungry fans.
Kim Taek-Yong's first point was regarding Proleague. He said, "It's not that I don't understand the sponsors' and Kespa's point of view, but playing so many matches, the players slowly lose their personality and the fans get bored easily."
Kim Taek-Yong believes that if Proleague had just one round with an appropriate number of games, StarCraft: Brood War could also have lasted longer. With a five round Proleague requiring so many games, the players tired quickly, which lowered the quality of play and also tired out the fans.
Another point was, "Focusing on Proleague so much at the expense of individual leagues also caused problems." He said, "Progamers define their unique styles in individual leagues, not Proleague, so when teams and Kespa de-emphasize individual leagues, it's difficult for memorable games or unique players to come out."
Kim Taek-Yong also had many regrets about the switch to StarCraft 2. Players, sponsors, and organizers all shifted their concentration to future plans, which ended up making the present situation worse and worse.
"Right now, everyone needs to unite and work together, but instead they only speak outwardly about how to revive the scene, while inwardly they think, 'What will we do once everything falls apart', and so the current problems remain unsolved."
"In order to overcome the current crisis, everyone working in e-sports needs to combine their strength. I hope that e-sports and StarCraft 2 events will receive so much love as to make me regret retiring."
Bisu has not yet gotten used to SC1, so I will improve and let fans see his superior mechanics like before. When he gets back to certain level, he will consider to participate in Sonic Starleague.
“If I go to tournament with this performance, then fans will be disappointed. I will practice hard and play exciting games for fans. This is the reason that I stream on Afreeca. Some people said that I just want more money, but I only want to deliver my happiness and sincereness, so it doesn’t matter if some people said those things.”
I wonder what an in-form S-class level Bisu would do to the SSL playing field...
I cant wait for the rest to follow suit. Need Flash to go back ASAP with Bisu and Jangbi its open season for protoss right now with only the likes of sea, hiya, mind and light? there
I would not be surprised to see a Second Coming of BW I will be in tears of joy if thats the case Because then I'll start playing BW again and going back to ladder days when I was a horrible B-
Bisu has not yet gotten used to SC1, so I will improve and let fans see his superior mechanics like before. When he gets back to certain level, he will consider to participate in Sonic Starleague.
“If I go to tournament with this performance, then fans will be disappointed. I will practice hard and play exciting games for fans. This is the reason that I stream on Afreeca. Some people said that I just want more money, but I only want to deliver my happiness and sincereness, so it doesn’t matter if some people said those things.”
I wonder what an in-form S-class level Bisu would do to the SSL playing field...
On October 01 2013 05:08 Pirfiktshon wrote: I would not be surprised to see a Second Coming of BW I will be in tears of joy if thats the case Because then I'll start playing BW again and going back to ladder days when I was a horrible B-
After playing BW for a few years and then playing SC2 for 2years... i stop playing it since... it was some how Stale, borring and fustrating to lose games that on BW u cant lose in the same manner.
BW has something that i cant explain that is lacking on SC2, hope Blizzard can address this on Legacy of Void.
Bisu's impression about the fanbase seems to be objectively incorrect. It's true it dropped drastically compared to BW but it then steadily improved with way larger crowds (than when it switched) for Starleague and Proleague. He made it seem like a continuous downward trend.
On October 01 2013 05:48 fuzzylogic44 wrote: Bisu's impression about the fanbase seems to be objectively incorrect. It's true it dropped drastically compared to BW but it then steadily improved with way larger crowds (than when it switched) for Starleague and Proleague. He made it seem like a continuous downward trend.
Well, he was playing, living there, maybe he knows more than what we do
what he said about the burden he feels is just kinda sad imo. Seeing all the fans leave must have broken every progamer's heart but to not get results with it? Damn i understand now fully why he retired
It's unfortunate that so many people thought BW skill would equate to SC2 skill, because I feel like that's a large source of the burden that top BW players felt after they switched to SC2. It's too bad that top BW players had to deal with the extra stress of those expectations when trying to learn a new game.
On October 01 2013 05:48 fuzzylogic44 wrote: Bisu's impression about the fanbase seems to be objectively incorrect. It's true it dropped drastically compared to BW but it then steadily improved with way larger crowds (than when it switched) for Starleague and Proleague. He made it seem like a continuous downward trend.
Way larger than when it switched isn't really saying much when you're used to the stadiums BW used to fill. I guess Bisu felt that nobody really cared much about Sc2 in Korea, and even though things improved a bit near the end, it was still really just a minority game in Korea as a whole.
It's sad but understandable. Seeing less and less fans and no results, it's just the right move. Happiness is most important. I think Jaedong learned to be happy with the game because he experiences a lot of love from fans at foreign events and travels a lot. So he was motivated enough and then got good results. I hope Flash and Stork get the chance to experience the same and kespa helps them out, so they see there are a lot of fans globally. Now how to get sc2 popular in Korea, that's a different matter .
I wish Bisu all the best and hope he can crush the BW leagues again!
No worries everyone, next week some Korean player will be interviewed and talk about great SC2 is doing in Korea and we will all be happy again. Then we continue to repeat this processes for weeks and weeks to come.
On October 01 2013 05:08 Pirfiktshon wrote: I would not be surprised to see a Second Coming of BW I will be in tears of joy if thats the case Because then I'll start playing BW again and going back to ladder days when I was a horrible B-
I haven't played BW in years and Sc2 has left such a bitter taste in my mouth that I actually started playing BW again and have zero regrets. Honestly, I see BW making a big comeback simply because of Blizzards hubris.
Bit disturbing how frank everyone is becoming.
They are just saying what everyone's thinking.
So sad . What can anyone do to make SC2 popular in korea? It would be an almighty shame for Flash to retire.
Nothing, the game is fundamentally unfun and no one can change that save Blizzard which doesn't bode well. The community already carries the game on it's back and it's frankly amazing how far this game has come simply by the sheer will of the community.
On October 01 2013 06:05 Sabu113 wrote: Nice interview. Bit disturbing how frank everyone is becoming.
Honesty is never bad. If everyone has resentment simmering under the surface it's like poison. If anything, well regarded, big name pros dropping some harsh critique could possibly make Blizz pay attention. Then again probably not.
On October 01 2013 06:03 Musicus wrote: It's sad but understandable. Seeing less and less fans and no results, it's just the right move. Happiness is most important. I think Jaedong learned to be happy with the game because he experiences a lot of love from fans at foreign events and travels a lot. So he was motivated enough and then got good results. I hope Flash and Stork get the chance to experience the same and kespa helps them out, so they see there are a lot of fans globally. Now how to get sc2 popular in Korea, that's a different matter .
I wish Bisu all the best and hope he can crush the BW leagues again!
Flash has recently been attending Dreamhack and will attend IEM soon. He said that he wants to focus on foreign tournaments in the future, so hopefully he'll do well and get impassioned by the bigger audiences that show up for those weekend-long tournaments.
On October 01 2013 06:03 Musicus wrote: It's sad but understandable. Seeing less and less fans and no results, it's just the right move. Happiness is most important. I think Jaedong learned to be happy with the game because he experiences a lot of love from fans at foreign events and travels a lot. So he was motivated enough and then got good results. I hope Flash and Stork get the chance to experience the same and kespa helps them out, so they see there are a lot of fans globally. Now how to get sc2 popular in Korea, that's a different matter .
I wish Bisu all the best and hope he can crush the BW leagues again!
Flash has recently been attending Dreamhack and will attend IEM soon. He said that he wants to focus on foreign tournaments in the future, so hopefully he'll do well and get impassioned by the bigger audiences that show up for those weekend-long tournaments.
he is actually not doing bad .. he is consistently getting to r16 in tournaments .. the only problem is everyone expects much from since well he is the greatest player of BW and even mediocrity from him is unacceptable
This interview made me rather sad, even though I haven't seen all that many of his BW games. I never followed BW like I did SC2, and only watched it at the end of its professional lifespan (played it for a long time, just didn't have good enough internet to play / watch online).
I really want to watch his BW stream though, and I'm seriously considering starting to play some BW myself and seeing how good I can get.
On October 01 2013 06:17 XaCez wrote: No worries everyone, next week some Korean player will be interviewed and talk about great SC2 is doing in Korea and we will all be happy again. Then we continue to repeat this processes for weeks and weeks to come.
I'll believe it when I see it.. Actually it would be a first in months if they said anything remotely close to your prediction.
He doesn't have to keep hurting himself on a game that he very clearly doesn't enjoy playing. How little we see Bisu's genius in games was a clear tell. And how little we see Stork I feel like he might be next to retire. (And his age )
I don't know. SC2 in general has been in a bad state ever since LoL and DotA 2 rose to the front. With how Blizzard is managing the game itself, that isn't helping what so ever. Wish you the best Bisu, you will always be my favorite for bringing me into BW. I will never forget staying up and watching your games.
(I will also cherish that autograph I received in MLG Anaheim w/ the rest of TBLS)
On October 01 2013 06:03 Musicus wrote: It's sad but understandable. Seeing less and less fans and no results, it's just the right move. Happiness is most important. I think Jaedong learned to be happy with the game because he experiences a lot of love from fans at foreign events and travels a lot. So he was motivated enough and then got good results. I hope Flash and Stork get the chance to experience the same and kespa helps them out, so they see there are a lot of fans globally. Now how to get sc2 popular in Korea, that's a different matter .
I wish Bisu all the best and hope he can crush the BW leagues again!
Flash has recently been attending Dreamhack and will attend IEM soon. He said that he wants to focus on foreign tournaments in the future, so hopefully he'll do well and get impassioned by the bigger audiences that show up for those weekend-long tournaments.
he is actually not doing bad .. he is consistently getting to r16 in tournaments .. the only problem is everyone expects much from since well he is the greatest player of BW and even mediocrity from him is unacceptable
Flash certainly isn't in a good spot right now... he's certainly thirsting for more than just Ro16 finishes.
However, remember that he was an absolute beast in PL (most wins award yet again) and he even got semifinals/finals way back at MLG. He had a taste of being at the top, so I think he will not lose his motivation.
On October 01 2013 06:03 Musicus wrote: It's sad but understandable. Seeing less and less fans and no results, it's just the right move. Happiness is most important. I think Jaedong learned to be happy with the game because he experiences a lot of love from fans at foreign events and travels a lot. So he was motivated enough and then got good results. I hope Flash and Stork get the chance to experience the same and kespa helps them out, so they see there are a lot of fans globally. Now how to get sc2 popular in Korea, that's a different matter .
I wish Bisu all the best and hope he can crush the BW leagues again!
Flash has recently been attending Dreamhack and will attend IEM soon. He said that he wants to focus on foreign tournaments in the future, so hopefully he'll do well and get impassioned by the bigger audiences that show up for those weekend-long tournaments.
he is actually not doing bad .. he is consistently getting to r16 in tournaments .. the only problem is everyone expects much from since well he is the greatest player of BW and even mediocrity from him is unacceptable
Flash certainly isn't in a good spot right now... he's certainly thirsting for more than just Ro16 finishes.
However, remember that he was an absolute beast in PL (most wins award yet again) and he even got semifinals/finals way back at MLG. He had a taste of being at the top, so I think he will not lose his motivation.
Plus Bisu never even qualified for GSL, his situation was way more dire than Flash's :D. Although Flash doesn't seem to have the "spark" currently :/
On October 01 2013 05:08 Pirfiktshon wrote: I would not be surprised to see a Second Coming of BW I will be in tears of joy if thats the case Because then I'll start playing BW again and going back to ladder days when I was a horrible B-
If you like BW, play BW. Sustainable communities rise from the players. The more players a game has, the more attractive it is to others, and the more likely small events can be held, especially considering BW is LAN-capable and divorced from Battle.net, meaning no Blizzard control. I play some games with small communities, and the best you can do is to play, to talk with others about the game, teach and LAN.
Surprised to see that bisu is so against advancement of society. SC2 is out and he plays SC1? Didn't know he was this much of a selfish person. You learn something new every day.
On October 01 2013 06:03 Musicus wrote: It's sad but understandable. Seeing less and less fans and no results, it's just the right move. Happiness is most important. I think Jaedong learned to be happy with the game because he experiences a lot of love from fans at foreign events and travels a lot. So he was motivated enough and then got good results. I hope Flash and Stork get the chance to experience the same and kespa helps them out, so they see there are a lot of fans globally. Now how to get sc2 popular in Korea, that's a different matter .
I wish Bisu all the best and hope he can crush the BW leagues again!
Flash has recently been attending Dreamhack and will attend IEM soon. He said that he wants to focus on foreign tournaments in the future, so hopefully he'll do well and get impassioned by the bigger audiences that show up for those weekend-long tournaments.
he is actually not doing bad .. he is consistently getting to r16 in tournaments .. the only problem is everyone expects much from since well he is the greatest player of BW and even mediocrity from him is unacceptable
Flash certainly isn't in a good spot right now... he's certainly thirsting for more than just Ro16 finishes.
However, remember that he was an absolute beast in PL (most wins award yet again) and he even got semifinals/finals way back at MLG. He had a taste of being at the top, so I think he will not lose his motivation.
Plus Bisu never even qualified for GSL, his situation was way more dire than Flash's :D. Although Flash doesn't seem to have the "spark" currently :/
I tink at early HOTS Flash actually did better than Jaedong, right? Especially during the MLG he went into finals , beating Innovation & then losing to Life sad case . . .
Right now Jaedong has high WCS point. Flash oso perform well in SPL.
He lost his spark when he lose to Bomber in GSL 2-3 months ago . And then the SPL his team did not make it, it is FLASH team. Then he went missing in bangkok 1 month, sad exit from Romania tourny, and the recent GSL . . .
His recent GSL game is fun to watch. I think some poor decision cost him the game, not really his skill. Maybe he is affected by all these recent event causing mini slump.
On October 01 2013 05:48 fuzzylogic44 wrote: Bisu's impression about the fanbase seems to be objectively incorrect. It's true it dropped drastically compared to BW but it then steadily improved with way larger crowds (than when it switched) for Starleague and Proleague. He made it seem like a continuous downward trend.
Really ? I don't understand what give you that impression ?
To me it look like the audience have really drop like crazy in the last 6 month of proleague. For example I remember in the beginning of hybrid proleague and first OSL seeing groups of fan girls in the studio, sometimes offering large amount of gift and food, like cake and candy, to their team. Doesn't happen anymore. Also since the schedule of proleague has changed to accommodate for more LOL most of proleague match are played at SPOTTV in the middle of the week and it is sometimes really heartbreaking to see an almost completely empty audience, sometimes with like 4 or 5 people max... I can see how it can be demoralizing.
Also apparently Bisu also said on his stream something like this :
On September 28 2013 17:54 Boonbag wrote: he said alot of stuff about sc2 and pro scene [...] he basically said pro team salaries got cut off to the point its more profitable to stream bw on afreeca thant play sc2 in korea
I cant believe I used to dislike this man (After he crushed sAviOr's aura of invincibility - what can I say? I was a rabid fan). Now I have nothing but respect for him and i'm glad he's back to doing what he loves. I wish you the best, SurgicalToss, in all your endeavours.
Bisu has not yet gotten used to SC1, so he will improve and let fans see his superior mechanics like before. When he gets back to certain level, he will consider to participate in Sonic Starleague.
So much people blame the gameplay, and the mechanics like the reason of the downfall of sc2. they are bad things between the players, but the problem in Korea is that there are not players. the main reason IMO, is the model. BW was a game a lot cheaper to play in PC bangs back in the 1999, but then in 2010, you needed a license to play, making an easy choose any F2P game to the players, so the late "spawning feature" and the fight kespa-blizzard, bring the result of less overall players in starcraft2.
This interview is pretty much a confirmation of what we expected. It's nice to see these guys streaming on afreeca though, and the snipealot streams are amazing.
On October 01 2013 08:26 GoWoongjin wrote: Surprised to see that bisu is so against advancement of society. SC2 is out and he plays SC1? Didn't know he was this much of a selfish person. You learn something new every day.
User was banned for this post.
What the hell...this is wrong in so many ways.
Guess what I learned to today? That people can actually say something as stupid as this.
Bisu, I can't even begin to describe the happiness you brought to my little teenager heart watching you play Starcraft in the late hours of the night. Forever <3 Bisu
On October 01 2013 09:36 xuanzue wrote: So much people blame the gameplay, and the mechanics like the reason of the downfall of sc2. they are bad things between the players, but the problem in Korea is that there are not players. the main reason IMO, is the model. BW was a game a lot cheaper to play in PC bangs back in the 1999, but then in 2010, you needed a license to play, making an easy choose any F2P game to the players, so the late "spawning feature" and the fight kespa-blizzard, bring the result of less overall players in starcraft2.
And if they still do this sc2 won't shine still. I know few of my korean friends and about 3 ex pros try out sc2. Guess what? They quit after only 4 months. This ex semi pro shinee played and reached masters in kr server then he quit altogeter and came back to bw. Its simply this: experienced bw players will in no way play sc2 because of something you don't know that differentiates these two games. Many koreans have experienced bw, thus they won't play sc2.
On stream he said he makes more money playing Afreeca than he would have playing SC2, LOL. That just shows where the money and fanbase lies, considering the fanbase is pretty much directly supporting Afreeca players. GG.
On October 01 2013 12:59 Jealous wrote: On stream he said he makes more money playing Afreeca than he would have playing SC2, LOL. That just shows where the money and fanbase lies, considering the fanbase is pretty much directly supporting Afreeca players. GG.
it makes sense, he was pretty terrible at SC2. He admits it as much in the interview too, but the BW elitists chose to ignore that part of his interview and focus on the "SCII sucks" train. He felt badly being bad at the game and went back to the one where he was better.
“I have a burden to prove myself. Losing games gives me even more of these burdens. I couldn't see the hope of improvement and I couldn't get rid of this burden. So, I retired.
On October 01 2013 12:59 Jealous wrote: On stream he said he makes more money playing Afreeca than he would have playing SC2, LOL. That just shows where the money and fanbase lies, considering the fanbase is pretty much directly supporting Afreeca players. GG.
it makes sense, he was pretty terrible at SC2. He admits it as much in the interview too, but the BW elitists chose to ignore that part of his interview and focus on the "SCII sucks" train. He felt badly being bad at the game and went back to the one where he was better.
“I have a burden to prove myself. Losing games gives me even more of these burdens. I couldn't see the hope of improvement and I couldn't get rid of this burden. So, I retired.
I would still expect an A-teamer with as much marketability as Bisu to make more than fan-based donations would ever net him. Considering this is a person who had a 350k salary, won the final match of the last true BW finals... I expect his market value to be above whatever he can make streaming. Note that he didn't just say it was HIS salary that was meager, but SC2 players in general. Sure, you will have your Innovations that are probably raking in the dough, but if it is not worth it for the majority of the players, many of which can apparently make more money playing Afreeca...
As hard as it might be, I think it's time to stop discrediting arguments by throwing "BW elitist" somewhere in your post. Facts are facts, Bisu had no reason to lie and probably had many reasons not to say anything about it at all.
On October 01 2013 12:59 Jealous wrote: On stream he said he makes more money playing Afreeca than he would have playing SC2, LOL. That just shows where the money and fanbase lies, considering the fanbase is pretty much directly supporting Afreeca players. GG.
it makes sense, he was pretty terrible at SC2. He admits it as much in the interview too, but the BW elitists chose to ignore that part of his interview and focus on the "SCII sucks" train. He felt badly being bad at the game and went back to the one where he was better.
“I have a burden to prove myself. Losing games gives me even more of these burdens. I couldn't see the hope of improvement and I couldn't get rid of this burden. So, I retired.
I would still expect an A-teamer with as much marketability as Bisu to make more than fan-based donations would ever net him. Considering this is a person who had a 350k salary, won the final match of the last true BW finals... I expect his market value to be above whatever he can make streaming. Note that he didn't just say it was HIS salary that was meager, but SC2 players in general. Sure, you will have your Innovations that are probably raking in the dough, but if it is not worth it for the majority of the players, many of which can apparently make more money playing Afreeca...
As hard as it might be, I think it's time to stop discrediting arguments by throwing "BW elitist" somewhere in your post. Facts are facts, Bisu had no reason to lie and probably had many reasons not to say anything about it at all.
Look at his quote, he isnt complaining about being stressed out about just 'being one of the guys', what affected him was that he went from being a top 4-5 player in the world to being a mediocre player, and he felt he wouldnt be able to stop being mediocire. My comment about BW elitists is just about the tone of most responses on this page. "Look, even Bisu admits this game sucks compared to BW!". You could interpret his overall post not only that "BW>SC2" but just as easily as "I suck at SC2, I am good at BW, I feel a huge emotional turmoil from being a huge BW star and turning into a mediocre SC2 player and I cant handle it" and then you could add the reality that most teams dont want to pay a lot of money for once great players who have mediocre results.
On October 01 2013 12:59 Jealous wrote: On stream he said he makes more money playing Afreeca than he would have playing SC2, LOL. That just shows where the money and fanbase lies, considering the fanbase is pretty much directly supporting Afreeca players. GG.
it makes sense, he was pretty terrible at SC2. He admits it as much in the interview too, but the BW elitists chose to ignore that part of his interview and focus on the "SCII sucks" train. He felt badly being bad at the game and went back to the one where he was better.
“I have a burden to prove myself. Losing games gives me even more of these burdens. I couldn't see the hope of improvement and I couldn't get rid of this burden. So, I retired.
I would still expect an A-teamer with as much marketability as Bisu to make more than fan-based donations would ever net him. Considering this is a person who had a 350k salary, won the final match of the last true BW finals... I expect his market value to be above whatever he can make streaming. Note that he didn't just say it was HIS salary that was meager, but SC2 players in general. Sure, you will have your Innovations that are probably raking in the dough, but if it is not worth it for the majority of the players, many of which can apparently make more money playing Afreeca...
As hard as it might be, I think it's time to stop discrediting arguments by throwing "BW elitist" somewhere in your post. Facts are facts, Bisu had no reason to lie and probably had many reasons not to say anything about it at all.
Look at his quote, he isnt complaining about being stressed out about just 'being one of the guys', what affected him was that he went from being a top 4-5 player in the world to being a mediocre player, and he felt he wouldnt be able to stop being mediocire. My comment about BW elitists is just about the tone of most responses on this page. "Look, even Bisu admits this game sucks compared to BW!". You could interpret his overall post not only that "BW>SC2" but just as easily as "I suck at SC2, I am good at BW, I feel a huge emotional turmoil from being a huge BW star and turning into a mediocre SC2 player and I cant handle it" and then you could add the reality that most teams dont want to pay a lot of money for once great players who have mediocre results.
Bisu meant that his motivation to improve at SCII also went away when the audience shrunk big time so I think that contributed majorly to how bad his play was and why he 'sucked'. He has the APM and multitasking if you've ever seen his fpv. He is known as the 'multitasker' in BW because he can hit at so many places at once. He can run circles around Innovation with his multitasking yet he's doing badly. Why? When you're someone like him who experienced the cheers of the audience and that was your motivation for improvement, then it's gone, well, you ask yourself what's the point?
“It’s not only me. Other players felt the same. When seeing an empty venue, it is really hard to find the right sense of competition. When we see no fans, then it is meaningless to train so hard to play competitively.”
Furthermore, like the other TLBS players, he had to prove himself and it makes it difficult do so immense pressure to perform but lack of motivation when you also consider that the fans left:
"If Bisu is a b-teamer, he probably will not retire. But as a member of the TaekBangLeeSsang, the representatives of best of the best in esports, the attention is tremendous. “I have a burden to prove myself. Losing games gives me even more of these burdens. I couldn't see the hope of improvement and I couldn't get rid of this burden. So, I retired."
Losing the fans made him lose his drive and without it, he started losing more games eventually he had to decide whether to keep losing games or retires. He would've been able to move away from mediocrity(he actually was 50% in PL and took out rorO when HoTS first released who was last WoL champion) if the fans were there alas, it wasn't the case. Either way, he went back to what he loved. BW is where Bisu belongs imo
While I understand his decision, I feel a it's a little bit unfair to his foreigner fans. There are a ton of western/foriegners that loved Bisu and would've gone to see him play - but he was only in Korea and couldn't see it. (Don't get me wrong, I completely respect him, I just wanted to make this point!)
I don't think The Tyrant is going to retire soon, and I think Flash feels the same. Because they saw it. They saw how passionate people are about SC2, and how passionate they are for those players. When Jaedong first played SC2, I did not care that he was not as good as everyone else and just got nerdchills because it's him and he tried to live on the legacy. And now looking at it, it's like BW all over again. Just not Courage, but regular tournaments. And I'm 100% confident that one day he will be the Jaedong we all know again. Flash, on the other hand, might be different. I think his mindset is still too similar to Bisu's.
Before SC2 was released, BW was actually not as popular as we wanted it to be. MBC Game closing and everything, BW was still on the decline even when SC2 wasn't doing well at all. One could argue that this was because of the SC2 release, but I think in the end I think we can agree to this:
Most fans moved on, either to other games(LoL) or to the "next Starcraft", even though it might not be a "real" Starcraft, or whatever your opinion is.
A programer can now decide to come with us, or leave. Most stayed, some left. This is the way things go in life, and even though it's sad to see the people go, especially when it's a player like Bisu, I look forward to the future we have with our current players. I don't want to make a point here that BW is dead, it's not. Not by a long shot. But when we talk about the eSports scene BW is just not as relevant as we would like it to be(And I am a BW fan, too.). So it kinda feels like "leaving" when players go back to BW.
SC2 is still new compared to what we had in BW. We might not have an MBC Game again, we might not have the old Pro League, but we will definitely have the next best thing!
On October 01 2013 16:13 KeksX wrote: While I understand his decision, I feel a it's a little bit unfair to his foreigner fans. There are a ton of western/foriegners that loved Bisu and would've gone to see him play - but he was only in Korea and couldn't see it. (Don't get me wrong, I completely respect him, I just wanted to make this point!)
I don't think The Tyrant is going to retire soon, and I think Flash feels the same. Because they saw it. They saw how passionate people are about SC2, and how passionate they are for those players. When Jaedong first played SC2, I did not care that he was not as good as everyone else and just got nerdchills because it's him and he tried to live on the legacy. And now looking at it, it's like BW all over again. Just not Courage, but regular tournaments. And I'm 100% confident that one day he will be the Jaedong we all know again. Flash, on the other hand, might be different. I think his mindset is still too similar to Bisu's.
Before SC2 was released, BW was actually not as popular as we wanted it to be. MBC Game closing and everything, BW was still on the decline even when SC2 wasn't doing well at all. One could argue that this was because of the SC2 release, but I think in the end I think we can agree to this:
Most fans moved on, either to other games(LoL) or to the "next Starcraft", even though it might not be a "real" Starcraft, or whatever your opinion is.
A programer can now decide to come with us, or leave. Most stayed, some left. This is the way things go in life, and even though it's sad to see the people go, especially when it's a player like Bisu, I look forward to the future we have with our current players. I don't want to make a point here that BW is dead, it's not. Not by a long shot. But when we talk about the eSports scene BW is just not as relevant as we would like it to be(And I am a BW fan, too.). So it kinda feels like "leaving" when players go back to BW.
SC2 is still new compared to what we had in BW. We might not have an MBC Game again, we might not have the old Pro League, but we will definitely have the next best thing!
I think between bisu, flash and jaedong, bisu was always the more sensible guy. How is he to blame? To everyone who has ever performed infront of an audience (be it gaming, music or sport) and then received the love, let me tell you it's a feeling that goes beyond what you can imagine. You do it for them, always trying to improve, giving them something new.
I think it's quite sad to see a great player leave in such a fashion but I understand. No need to grind it out if your main motivation is making your fans happy. I think flash and jaedong are still different. They do it for the competition and personal challenge.
On October 01 2013 16:38 Jayson X wrote: I think between bisu, flash and jaedong, bisu was always the more sensible guy. How is he to blame? To everyone who has ever performed infront of an audience (be it gaming, music or sport) and then received the love, let me tell you it's a feeling that goes beyond what you can imagine. You do it for them, always trying to improve, giving them something new.
I think it's quite sad to see a great player leave in such a fashion but I understand. No need to grind it out if your main motivation is making your fans happy. I think flash and jaedong are still different. They do it for the competition and personal challenge.
On October 01 2013 06:16 tomastaz wrote: </3 if only sc2 was more popular in Korea </3
If only they didn't have switched on SC2 in Korea... xd
BW was declining as well, remember. Sure, it might have lasted a few more years but it was guaranteed to fizzle out soon with the era of LoL upon us. SC2 was a chance to sustain the RTS/starcraft scene into the future, even if initially it was a painful transition. Right now it's looking like it hasn't panned out that well in Korea, but that doesn't mean it wasn't the right decision.
On October 01 2013 12:59 Jealous wrote: On stream he said he makes more money playing Afreeca than he would have playing SC2, LOL. That just shows where the money and fanbase lies, considering the fanbase is pretty much directly supporting Afreeca players. GG.
it makes sense, he was pretty terrible at SC2. He admits it as much in the interview too, but the BW elitists chose to ignore that part of his interview and focus on the "SCII sucks" train. He felt badly being bad at the game and went back to the one where he was better.
“I have a burden to prove myself. Losing games gives me even more of these burdens. I couldn't see the hope of improvement and I couldn't get rid of this burden. So, I retired.
You choose to ignore the part where he said the fans stopped coming and he didn't want to play a game he didn't like. If he was passionate about it and Korean eSports fans actually liked it you bet he would be good at it.
On October 01 2013 05:48 fuzzylogic44 wrote: Bisu's impression about the fanbase seems to be objectively incorrect. It's true it dropped drastically compared to BW but it then steadily improved with way larger crowds (than when it switched) for Starleague and Proleague. He made it seem like a continuous downward trend.
bw finals were played in front of thousands, sc2 finals (in korea) are played in front of less people.. i remember one SPL game, camera went through crowd and there was seven (7!) people....
On October 01 2013 06:16 tomastaz wrote: </3 if only sc2 was more popular in Korea </3
If only they didn't have switched on SC2 in Korea... xd
BW was declining as well, remember. Sure, it might have lasted a few more years but it was guaranteed to fizzle out soon with the era of LoL upon us. SC2 was a chance to sustain the RTS/starcraft scene into the future, even if initially it was a painful transition. Right now it's looking like it hasn't panned out that well in Korea, but that doesn't mean it wasn't the right decision.
If Blizzard hadn't intervened we would have had a couple more years of OSLs and possibly MSLs after that we would have had a couple more online (like we do have). Basically Blizzard artificially cut out half a dozen years out of BWs life span (a lot more than SC2 would have lasted anyway.)
we will never ever get to see a future big bw tourney because blizzard will do its best to kill it.... lawsuits... fees.. and all other tactics to undermine bw's revival...
On October 01 2013 23:03 riyanme wrote: we will never ever get to see a future big bw tourney because blizzard will do its best to kill it.... lawsuits... fees.. and all other tactics to undermine bw's revival...
Even if that happened the backslash would be too big. It would be looking like Blizzard would be afraid of its own 15yo product becoming a competition to their new biggest Esports title. A truly bad image. Thats why i don't believe Blizzard will do anything proactive to stop it. They did a lot to stop it as a side effect of making the deal with Kespa and OGN.
But when it comes to Sonic, Blizzard shouldn't be able to jack shit. Simply too much backslash, corporations don't meddle with such stuff. Blizzard stopping the only BW tournament in Korea? WoW that would be truly a headliner in Korea.
It´s sad that Bisu could never make a splash in SC2. Some transitioned well, others didn´t, part of the process, I guess. Though it sucks to lose him, it´s probably for the best. Gogo Bisuuuuuu!!!!
On October 01 2013 23:03 riyanme wrote: we will never ever get to see a future big bw tourney because blizzard will do its best to kill it.... lawsuits... fees.. and all other tactics to undermine bw's revival...
Even if that happened the backslash would be too big. It would be looking like Blizzard would be afraid of its own 15yo product becoming a competition to their new biggest Esports title. A truly bad image. Thats why i don't believe Blizzard will do anything proactive to stop it. They did a lot to stop it as a side effect of making the deal with Kespa and OGN.
But when it comes to Sonic, Blizzard shouldn't be able to jack shit. Simply too much backslash, corporations don't meddle with such stuff. Blizzard stopping the only BW tournament in Korea? WoW that would be truly a headliner in Korea.
They will still charge fees, but that's about it, and I think they are well within their rights to do so. Nothing else should be coming up.
1.5k currently watching Bisu which is close to DRG's number lol. Keep in mind that they doesn't have afreeca viewers which is likely several thousands at least. He's going to participate in SSL9, exciting! :D
I think iam glad bisu didnt succeed in sc2. I mean, its more fun to watch bw in his fpv than proplay in sc2 even tho i have played/watched bw for 10~ years.
On October 01 2013 12:59 Jealous wrote: On stream he said he makes more money playing Afreeca than he would have playing SC2, LOL. That just shows where the money and fanbase lies, considering the fanbase is pretty much directly supporting Afreeca players. GG.
it makes sense, he was pretty terrible at SC2. He admits it as much in the interview too, but the BW elitists chose to ignore that part of his interview and focus on the "SCII sucks" train. He felt badly being bad at the game and went back to the one where he was better.
“I have a burden to prove myself. Losing games gives me even more of these burdens. I couldn't see the hope of improvement and I couldn't get rid of this burden. So, I retired.
Hey man whatever makes you feel better about your dying game
On October 01 2013 16:13 KeksX wrote: While I understand his decision, I feel a it's a little bit unfair to his foreigner fans. There are a ton of western/foriegners that loved Bisu and would've gone to see him play - but he was only in Korea and couldn't see it. (Don't get me wrong, I completely respect him, I just wanted to make this point!)
I don't think The Tyrant is going to retire soon, and I think Flash feels the same. Because they saw it. They saw how passionate people are about SC2, and how passionate they are for those players. When Jaedong first played SC2, I did not care that he was not as good as everyone else and just got nerdchills because it's him and he tried to live on the legacy. And now looking at it, it's like BW all over again. Just not Courage, but regular tournaments. And I'm 100% confident that one day he will be the Jaedong we all know again. Flash, on the other hand, might be different. I think his mindset is still too similar to Bisu's.
Before SC2 was released, BW was actually not as popular as we wanted it to be. MBC Game closing and everything, BW was still on the decline even when SC2 wasn't doing well at all. One could argue that this was because of the SC2 release, but I think in the end I think we can agree to this:
Most fans moved on, either to other games(LoL) or to the "next Starcraft", even though it might not be a "real" Starcraft, or whatever your opinion is.
A programer can now decide to come with us, or leave. Most stayed, some left. This is the way things go in life, and even though it's sad to see the people go, especially when it's a player like Bisu, I look forward to the future we have with our current players. I don't want to make a point here that BW is dead, it's not. Not by a long shot. But when we talk about the eSports scene BW is just not as relevant as we would like it to be(And I am a BW fan, too.). So it kinda feels like "leaving" when players go back to BW.
SC2 is still new compared to what we had in BW. We might not have an MBC Game again, we might not have the old Pro League, but we will definitely have the next best thing!
sigh at the delirium in the sc2 forums..
^^
On October 02 2013 01:24 Stratos wrote: Bisu was just confirmed for SSL9. Blizzard can't fight Bisu LOL.
sc2 uninstalled, bw re-installed for me. Long live brood war
On October 02 2013 01:24 Stratos wrote: Bisu was just confirmed for SSL9. Blizzard can't fight Bisu LOL.
Are you a firm believer in the Church of BSports? I know I am.
You converted me. I know believe in the Church of BSports.
BSports has died the first day it was created, by the hands of Sea, but now, BSports has risen again, according to the prophecies of the Church of BSports
On October 01 2013 07:41 ZenithM wrote: They should have flown out overseas and see that they still have many foreign fans :'( Beautiful interview, I'll keep following him on his BW stream.
He actually went to the MLG showmatch last year where he got 2nd (to Flash). I believe he was also one of the BW VIPs at Blizzcon two years ago (when they had the GSL finals). So he's seem the overseas enthusiasm for SC2.
I can understand that the home fans having a tepid response matters more to him than the foreign fans though.
Have you guys seen how those fans greeted them at Blizzcon when GSL's final was held there with MVP playing?
In the documentary "State of Play", as Jaedong was leaving, only ONE fan showed up to take pictures and singing with him. If as it is that they don't even know who those legends are.
On October 01 2013 05:11 Swiv wrote: sadly RTS games are just not the flavor at the moment and for the past few years. so sc2 never really had a chance imho
I don't get this type of reasoning.
Back in early 2000s RTS wasn't the big thing or flavor of the month. CS/FPS was. During the mid 2000s, Dota/TFT was the biggest thing and with that comes the Moba games that we have now.
RTS was NEVER big since the start of the global E-sport scene.
On October 02 2013 09:39 Xiphos wrote: Have you guys seen how those fans greeted them at Blizzcon when GSL's final was held there with MVP playing?
In the documentary "State of Play", as Jaedong was leaving, only ONE fan showed up to take pictures and singing with him. If as it is that they don't even know who those legends are.
I remember when they first came overseas and they were swarmed by the fans and the response was overwhelming (BW days ofc -- not talking about the MLG hoopla). I never watched that documentary but that sounds rather sad for only one person to show up, but something tells me that doesn't give us the full picture. I'm sure there was a small crowd that showed up to take pictures with him as he was leaving. It probably happened elsewhere and just not for that shot. Hmph.
I honestly didn't have big expectations for bisu when he moved to sc2. I figured he would try it out and see how he did at it then decide if it was for him or not. He did severely hype hots for a bit and making tournament appearances energized the fan base. I guess now he wants to move on since he didn't enjoy the game that much. I wish him the best.
I'd get bored too if I played BW Protoss and had to play SC2 Protoss... Bisu's talent was multitasking, SC2 Protoss doesn't really give Bisu the chance to use his talents.
On October 01 2013 05:11 Swiv wrote: sadly RTS games are just not the flavor at the moment and for the past few years. so sc2 never really had a chance imho
I don't get this type of reasoning.
Back in early 2000s RTS wasn't the big thing or flavor of the month. CS/FPS was. During the mid 2000s, Dota/TFT was the biggest thing and with that comes the Moba games that we have now.
RTS was NEVER big since the start of the global E-sport scene.
This is just dumb.
RTS genre has taken a huge nosedive in recent years, anyone who has been interested in gaming for the last couple decades could tell you that. Just look at the number of RTS titles released these days, very low. Between the mid 90's - early 00's the RTS genre was super popular, Command and Conquer, Total Annihilation, Age of Empires, Starcraft, Warcraft etc were filling the genre up with titles to choose from.
Also remember that it was an RTS game (Broodwar) that really made e-sports. Before that game there was no legitimate pro gaming scene anywhere.
But after SPL transitioned into SC2, the number of fans in the live events reduced to less than half in a month.
“It’s not only me. Other players felt the same. When seeing an empty venue, it is really hard to find the right sense of competition. When we see no fans, then it is meaningless to train so hard to play competitively.”
The rapid loss of fans was unexpected by many people including Bisu. Bisu thought that fans will return eventually. But one day he realized that fans truly left.
“Fans are leaving continually. What’s the meaning of me keep playing. My heart is empty. It is such a feeling of void that I have never experienced during SC1. Being a progamer can no longer make my heart pound.”
This is the result of artificially forcing Starcraft 2 in the spotlight and trying to phase out BW. But it's good news that he went back playing the game that he loves.
On October 01 2013 05:08 Pirfiktshon wrote: I would not be surprised to see a Second Coming of BW I will be in tears of joy if thats the case Because then I'll start playing BW again and going back to ladder days when I was a horrible B-
stop saying b- horrible ^^ i played alot of years to reach b- and all my friends never got over C+ xD b- was real good for a foreign
“It’s not only me. Other players felt the same. When seeing an empty venue, it is really hard to find the right sense of competition. When we see no fans, then it is meaningless to train so hard to play competitively.”
=(. Watching redeye (bottom right) come out and have to host/introduce the event to that "crowd" was just sad and painful to watch. And then they brought the players out to stand on the stage and pretend like there were people to talk to.
Atleast it was just open bracket, and I know by the end around 40% of the chairs or so got taken, and there were decent stream numbers. But I can see from Bisu's perspective, to walk out to THIS, and be like "why am i even here."
On October 02 2013 09:39 Xiphos wrote: Have you guys seen how those fans greeted them at Blizzcon when GSL's final was held there with MVP playing?
In the documentary "State of Play", as Jaedong was leaving, only ONE fan showed up to take pictures and singing with him. If as it is that they don't even know who those legends are.
I remember when they first came overseas and they were swarmed by the fans and the response was overwhelming (BW days ofc -- not talking about the MLG hoopla). I never watched that documentary but that sounds rather sad for only one person to show up, but something tells me that doesn't give us the full picture. I'm sure there was a small crowd that showed up to take pictures with him as he was leaving. It probably happened elsewhere and just not for that shot. Hmph.
This is bullshit. I was at blizzcon that year and fanboys were going nuts everywhere but the korean guides and managers they had wouldnt even let us say hi or ask for pictures or signatures. The moment we approached wed get a hand in our face and the players were shuffled off to the private lounge. When did did signings like at mlg the line wrapped around the venue but they only did autographs for 30 to 45 minutes.
Everything ive ever seen has only been madness for the bw gods here in the states. He is strictly talking about the korean fans is my guess.
“It’s not only me. Other players felt the same. When seeing an empty venue, it is really hard to find the right sense of competition. When we see no fans, then it is meaningless to train so hard to play competitively.”
=(. Watching redeye (bottom right) come out and have to host/introduce the event to that "crowd" was just sad and painful to watch. And then they brought the players out to stand on the stage and pretend like there were people to talk to.
Atleast it was just open bracket, and I know by the end around 40% of the chairs or so got taken, and there were decent stream numbers. But I can see from Bisu's perspective, to walk out to THIS, and be like "why am i even here."
bisu should do what he feels he has to, if he want happy playing sc2, then im glad he retired and i hope he will find something that he is happy doing.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0r47cso.jpg)
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Hpk7p5Z.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yRBTXYT.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TNpI1O4.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/j8YqUzF.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cpntNjd.jpg)
Because then I'll start playing BW again and going back to ladder days when I was a horrible B- 
. What can anyone do to make SC2 popular in korea? It would be an almighty shame for Flash to retire. 
)
![[image loading]](http://imgnews.naver.net/image/347/2013/10/02/2013100223085998670_20131002232641_2_59_20131002232702.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XqoT5WX.png)
