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On September 26 2013 12:22 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 12:06 TheRabidDeer wrote:On September 26 2013 11:43 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On September 26 2013 11:28 TheRabidDeer wrote: Oracles do 3x+ the DPS of mutalisks, if you get 4 oracles they decimate static defense and worker lines SOOOOOOOOOOOOO quickly. At the beginning of HotS I didnt take oracles seriously but they do tons of damage. In the time it takes to get 4 oracles, you should have scouted what Protoss is doing and easily have defenses ready in time... Same goes for any number of mutalisks, yet they are still effective harassment. Now, why is that? Because zerg makes 10-20 of them at a time and protoss anti-air sucks complete ass? I dont just mean ZvP, but also ZvZ and ZvT.
New oracle should be as effective if not more effective at harassing when compared to mutalisks and you should only need 3-5 of them instead of 15 or more.
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On September 26 2013 04:19 awesomoecalypse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 04:14 Plansix wrote: And people say Blizzard doesn't listen. I like that this is a very fluid thing and they are taking feed back as it comes in. I like all these changes and I'm a little bummed there wasn't a little speed boost for the DTs. Still, all of the changes look like they will reward the player that controls better. My favorite suggestion on the DT change was to tie it to researching charge. That is, charge not only improves base Zealot speed, but also buffs base DT speed. That way they're slightly better in the lategame, without being any stronger early on.
That last idea is the best idea for a DT speed buff, however I think blizzard doesnt get that tanks are never going to be used unless they are worth using, you have to get 11 tank volleys off for this patch to even be relevant, meaning the only matchup where it matters is TvT. mixing tanks into bio mine will not happen, no one wants to make a unit that does way less for way more cost and way more supply, only reason bio tank was usable in Wings was because of the OPfestor, and better mutas means tanks are awful units now.
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On September 26 2013 12:20 KirkSC wrote: It seems David Kim is going to get off his ass and attempt to fix his broken game now. It only took an entire month of record low stream viewership Question is, Is it already too late?
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On September 26 2013 12:26 Blargh1111 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 04:19 awesomoecalypse wrote:On September 26 2013 04:14 Plansix wrote: And people say Blizzard doesn't listen. I like that this is a very fluid thing and they are taking feed back as it comes in. I like all these changes and I'm a little bummed there wasn't a little speed boost for the DTs. Still, all of the changes look like they will reward the player that controls better. My favorite suggestion on the DT change was to tie it to researching charge. That is, charge not only improves base Zealot speed, but also buffs base DT speed. That way they're slightly better in the lategame, without being any stronger early on. That last idea is the best idea for a DT speed buff, however I think blizzard doesnt get that tanks are never going to be used unless they are worth using, you have to get 11 tank volleys off for this patch to even be relevant, meaning the only matchup where it matters is TvT. mixing tanks into bio mine will not happen, no one wants to make a unit that does way less for way more cost and way more supply, only reason bio tank was usable in Wings was because of the OPfestor, and better mutas means tanks are awful units now.
Math doesn't work that way. You don't have to fire 11 times and get an extra shot to receive benefits from increased attack speed.
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On September 26 2013 12:27 saddaromma wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 12:20 KirkSC wrote: It seems David Kim is going to get off his ass and attempt to fix his broken game now. It only took an entire month of record low stream viewership Question is, Is it already too late?
Number tweaks will do nothing. Ditto for an expansion. It all started with SC2 at its very core, so anything based around it is just hanging off something broken.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
Good to see that dt buff is out of the question.
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On September 26 2013 11:52 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 11:44 ke_ivan wrote:On September 26 2013 10:08 Dogfood wrote:On September 26 2013 09:52 rd wrote:On September 26 2013 09:40 mikumegurine wrote: try making tanks do extra +damage to shields or something? lol
might make mech more viable vs P They avoid doing changes where units have unintuitive special cases and don't function as described. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Spore_Crawler lol that's funny! Its not actually that weird. You could say that the spores are extra virulent in biological hosts causing them to be more damaging to non-mechanical units. Ie; you get sick due to spores in the air. It's only funny because it only affects 2 units in the whole game.... both zerg.... 5 units including mutas, ovies, corruptors, broodlords, and overseers.
More if you include neuraling a probe, rebuilding the protoss tech tree up to stargate, and using phoenixes to pick up any number of ground-based biological units.
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On September 26 2013 04:19 Hider wrote: Not really a fan of the Oracle as a design. Revelation is just super boring ability, and I don't mind not seeing it very often (though protoss as a race is quite boring to watch so probably doesn't matter that much).
The Oracle is a terrible design. Protoss already has it's gimmick unit with the DT, and the Oracle is redundant. If your opponent isn't prepared and doesn't scout well, you'll do a lot of damage. If your opponent is prepared, you're just behind.
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On September 26 2013 12:40 Nerevar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 11:52 Thieving Magpie wrote:On September 26 2013 11:44 ke_ivan wrote:On September 26 2013 10:08 Dogfood wrote:On September 26 2013 09:52 rd wrote:On September 26 2013 09:40 mikumegurine wrote: try making tanks do extra +damage to shields or something? lol
might make mech more viable vs P They avoid doing changes where units have unintuitive special cases and don't function as described. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Spore_Crawler lol that's funny! Its not actually that weird. You could say that the spores are extra virulent in biological hosts causing them to be more damaging to non-mechanical units. Ie; you get sick due to spores in the air. It's only funny because it only affects 2 units in the whole game.... both zerg.... 5 units including mutas, ovies, corruptors, broodlords, and overseers. More if you include neuraling a probe, rebuilding the protoss tech tree up to stargate, and using phoenixes to pick up any number of ground-based biological units. yeah... They should have give zerg more anti air GROUND unit option and remove stupid spore buff. All blames to hydra being lair tech! I'm still waiting for expansion to fix this :p BUFF HYDRA!!! + Show Spoiler +(how about hydra have +bio tag both ground and air?) But again, not a big issue apart from ZvZ
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On September 26 2013 12:44 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2013 04:19 Hider wrote: Not really a fan of the Oracle as a design. Revelation is just super boring ability, and I don't mind not seeing it very often (though protoss as a race is quite boring to watch so probably doesn't matter that much). The Oracle is a terrible design. Protoss already has it's gimmick unit with the DT, and the Oracle is redundant. If your opponent isn't prepared and doesn't scout well, you'll do a lot of damage. If your opponent is prepared, you're just behind. I miss cloaking field I wish they remove mothership (is this still exist?) and give that to oracle (fleet beacon upgrade!)
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And where I have seen this idea, this idea that Siege Tanks need to have their attack speed reduced (and that Widow Mines are trash)?
Only my massive writeup during the Beta... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=378373
David Kim... if only your job was based on your performance like most peoples...we spoon fed you solutions to the game during the HOTS Beta and you ignored them. Good thing you aren't held accountable.
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wonder if we're eventually gonna see the factory and starport merged into one building, lol
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Where is the 50% area nerf for storm and banelings? How about reverting the siege tank damage nerfs first? Why not give Banshee's 4 speed as well for the lulz?
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On September 26 2013 13:00 Loccstana wrote: Where is the 50% area nerf for storm and banelings? How about reverting the siege tank damage nerfs first? Why not give Banshee's 4 speed as well for the lulz? they should twice the speed of every air unit. Its funny how marines and zerglings can run faster than rockets and planes.
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On September 26 2013 12:56 Nightsz wrote: wonder if we're eventually gonna see the factory and starport merged into one building, lol
One building to make bio units, one to spam mech units lol
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The BW tank dealt 70 (75% vs medium, 50% vs small) damage with a cooldown of 75 in siege mode. In SC2 time, that would mean a cooldown of 4.3 and brings us to the dps:
0 attack: 16.3/12.2/8.1 1 attack: 17.4/13.1/8.7 2 attack: 18.6/14.0/9.3 3 attack: 19.8/14.8/9.9
The SC2 tank deals 35 (+15 armored) damage with a cooldown of 3 (currently) in siege mode, which means a dps of:
0 attack: 11.7/17.7 1 attack: 12.7/18.4 2 attack: 13.7/20.1 3 attack: 14.7/21.8
As you can see, it's already much higher then the BW tank in nearly every respect. With the attack speed change from 3 to 2.7 though:
0 attack: 13.0/18.5 1 attack: 14.1/20.4 2 attack: 15.2/22.2 3 attack: 16.3/24.1
Now it's even higher, the normal damage being higher then the medium damage with the BW tank. The SC2 tank also has 10 more health, 1 more range, and waaaay more dps in tank mode. So if you asked me, I'd say the Crucio Siege Tank is better then the Arclite Siege Tank.
That's surprising.
Source: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/10093119229?page=1#4
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Russian Federation604 Posts
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I'm really digging these changes on paper, and can't wait to see how it plays out. As a zerg player, I'm happy about mines; as a new terran player, I'm sad. Also can't wait to play with buffed burrowed roaches. With tunneling claws, they're now the same speed as vanilla roaches off-creep.
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I really hope the oracle speed buff goes through...observers late game V Terran are sooo hard to keep alive (Rain v Taeja - whirlwind wcs S2 finals) the range buff plus speed buff means Toss will have reliable detection in the crucial moments that cannot be removed by a simple scan....
And these changes to the oracle will give full game relevance...approve u TL heads!
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Russian Federation262 Posts
Dave, please, do not listen all this terran QQers, just do your job and test things!
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