EPTUpdated Balance Test Map - Page 10
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Prevolved
United States573 Posts
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ETisME
12740 Posts
how about just give them a mid - late game upgrade or something, stop buffing speed | ||
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megapants
United States1314 Posts
i just want to see either hive, the ultralisk cavern, or the ultralisks themselves to have shorter build time. i think that would be a pretty welcome and high impact, but not damaging, change to the metagame. | ||
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
On September 26 2013 11:33 ETisME wrote: omg another oracle speed increase? how about just give them a mid - late game upgrade or something, stop buffing speed Agree with this - oracle opening doesn't need a buff. Mid to late-game oracle usage needs a buff. A cheap upgrade from twilight council, hell put it on the cybernetics core even. | ||
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PineapplePizza
United States749 Posts
+15 damage vs shields sounds pretty nice for a tank. I'm kind of worried it would make Stalkers exceptionally crummy, but I guess that unit has always had issues :/ On September 26 2013 11:24 rd wrote: They should just give recall and time warp to the oracle and do away with the mothership core. Remove pulsar beam and revelation, and suddenly you now have an air caster that is actually useful for more than revealing units around the map after failing/succeeding a coin-flip gamble. Then afterwards figure out how to make PvP less of a cesspool without such a bludgeon of a solution which describes the MSC's role. I think PvP is doomed for this expansion. You could exchange the production rate of Warp Gates with normal Gateways and kill the problem dead, but I'm not sure how P would handle bio and such... Have they ever considered merging DT tech with the Templar Archives? That would solve the problem of DT's being a dead-end coinflip before the late-game. It's not like detection is a premium in HotS. | ||
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ke_ivan
Singapore374 Posts
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KrazyTrumpet
United States2520 Posts
On September 26 2013 11:28 TheRabidDeer wrote: Oracles do 3x+ the DPS of mutalisks, if you get 4 oracles they decimate static defense and worker lines SOOOOOOOOOOOOO quickly. At the beginning of HotS I didnt take oracles seriously but they do tons of damage. In the time it takes to get 4 oracles, you should have scouted what Protoss is doing and easily have defenses ready in time... | ||
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ke_ivan
Singapore374 Posts
lol that's funny! | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On September 26 2013 11:39 megapants wrote: as sick as having speedier burrow roach, i think that doesn't really affect the biggest issue people are having with zerg right now which is the ZvT matchup. perhaps it might make roach/hydra armies more powerful and harder to deal with, but other than that i see the burrow roach buff to have an effect on style more than on results. i just want to see either hive, the ultralisk cavern, or the ultralisks themselves to have shorter build time. i think that would be a pretty welcome and high impact, but not damaging, change to the metagame. You do know the mine is getting heavily nerfed, which is a huge buff for ZvT? | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
Its not actually that weird. You could say that the spores are extra virulent in biological hosts causing them to be more damaging to non-mechanical units. Ie; you get sick due to spores in the air. It's only funny because it only affects 2 units in the whole game.... both zerg.... | ||
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DusTerr
2520 Posts
On September 26 2013 11:41 PineapplePizza wrote: +15 damage vs shields sounds pretty nice for a tank. I'm kind of worried it would make Stalkers exceptionally crummy, but I guess that unit has always had issues :/ I think PvP is doomed for this expansion. You could exchange the production rate of Warp Gates with normal Gateways and kill the problem dead, but I'm not sure how P would handle bio and such... Have they ever considered merging DT tech with the Templar Archives? That would solve the problem of DT's being a dead-end coinflip before the late-game. It's not like detection is a premium in HotS. I get where you're coming from... however DT aren't used only as openers. Late game zealot + dt harass is very common in all 3 matches. Second, without any additional tech you're theoretically able to get to 3-3-3 chargelot archon (yeah, it's not the ideal way to get that composition but it's far from a dead end tech choice) Last, since you already have twilight you're just one building away from HT. (I'll keep saying that I'm open to the idea of DT speed upgrade with charge...) I agree with the problems caused by WG tech.. been discussed forever :D (Maybe LotV will see some sort of change...maybe...) Also, regarding giving tanks +dmg vs shields... they already did the exact same thing with widow mines anyway (for the single target damage). | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On September 26 2013 11:43 KrazyTrumpet wrote: In the time it takes to get 4 oracles, you should have scouted what Protoss is doing and easily have defenses ready in time... Same goes for any number of mutalisks, yet they are still effective harassment. Now, why is that? | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
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larse
1611 Posts
I am not very familiar with BW, so please correct me. Buffed tank DPS vs armored: *0 =18.52 *+1 =20.4 *+2 =22.23 *+3 =24.07 BW tank DPS vs large unit: *0 =22.4 *+1 =24 *+2 =25.6 *+3 =27.2 It looks like the DPS of the BW tank is higher. But we know that BW tanks over kill and SC2 tanks use smart fire. So I guess the effective DPS is actually quite similar or even higher in the case of SC2 tanks. Buffed tank DPS vs non-armored: *0 =12.96 *+1 =14.07 *+2 =15.19 *+3 =16.30 BW tank DPS vs small unit: *0 =11.2 *+1 =12 *+2 =12.8 *+3 =13.6 BW tank DPS vs medium unit: *0 =16.8 *+1 =18 *+2 =19.2 *+3 =20.4 Buffed SC2 tank's DPS vs non-armored unit is similar to the average of BW tank's DPS vs small unit and vs medium unit. One thing I am not sure is the splash damage. Does BW tank's splash have reduced damages in drop-off points where the splash damage dealt drops from 100% to 50% and 50% to 25%. According to wiki, it has. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Damage#Splash_Damage Also, last thing is the difference between Protoss shields in BW and SC2. In BW, all protoss shields take full damage while in SC2 the unit type affects how many damage shields take as well. But I guess the buffed tank now is quite close to BW tank? Is it? | ||
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SsDrKosS
330 Posts
I'm still happy that WM is nerfed to some degree (not to ground) oh well, tank still sucks oracle... again, without an upgrade??? (should give cheap research at fleet beacon or c core) OVERALL, I'm VERY happy as a zerg  Edit: I hope they will consider zerg transportations soon | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On September 26 2013 11:41 PineapplePizza wrote: +15 damage vs shields sounds pretty nice for a tank. I'm kind of worried it would make Stalkers exceptionally crummy, but I guess that unit has always had issues :/ I think PvP is doomed for this expansion. You could exchange the production rate of Warp Gates with normal Gateways and kill the problem dead, but I'm not sure how P would handle bio and such... Have they ever considered merging DT tech with the Templar Archives? That would solve the problem of DT's being a dead-end coinflip before the late-game. It's not like detection is a premium in HotS. Well, theres the general issue of PvP being volatile, and the underlying problem of warpgates and how it affects Protoss. Ultimately, warp gates are the reason PvP is so coin flippy and unforgiving, but it's not really a realistic solution to consider. It's becoming increasingly more evident however that PvP may never truly be solved with just a band-aid fix(aka the MSC). But for the benefit of other match-ups (mainly PvT), The return of a true air caster (a pseudo arbiter) and the removal of the MSC to be replaced with a new band-aid is more desirable than our current situation. I just have NFC what that band-aid for PvP is without the MSC nexi cannon. Unrelated, I like the irony that the solution to most of Protoss's problems is actually the revertion of Protoss back towards it's BW form. | ||
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KirkSC
10 Posts
It only took an entire month of record low stream viewership | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On September 26 2013 12:06 TheRabidDeer wrote: Same goes for any number of mutalisks, yet they are still effective harassment. Now, why is that? Because zerg makes 10-20 of them at a time and protoss anti-air sucks complete ass? | ||
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purakushi
United States3302 Posts
They say that they want more diversity, but buffs and nerfs like these only temporarily change things up. It will get dull quickly, though. Exciting gameplay should come from skill, not things that players/viewers have not seen before that will eventually be the same every game because it is undoubtedly the best way to play and easy enough for everyone to do. | ||
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