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6 possible balance changes - David Kim - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
1350 CommentsPost a Reply
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Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 23 2013 18:43 GMT
#81
On September 24 2013 03:41 PhoenixVoid wrote:
I'm okay with most of the changes, but the DT speed change and Widow Mine nerf seem far too drastic.

I am willing to bet they tone both of those down and they are just putting the needle to max for the test map.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Wildmoon
Profile Joined December 2011
Thailand4189 Posts
September 23 2013 18:43 GMT
#82
On September 24 2013 03:41 Grumbels wrote:
Given that the finals at Blizzcon represents the end of this year's season, they could easily be more extreme with their changes, almost on the level of a mini-expansion. I sometimes wonder what David Kim actually does with his time, since his job seems kinda easy...


Reading this forum could tell you that his job is far from easy when everyone here seems to know how to make the game better.
Sajaki
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada1135 Posts
September 23 2013 18:43 GMT
#83
The only thing that surprises me is how drastic the mine change is (like 1/3 range gone) and how tiny the tank compensation is (1/10 faster). Maybe the numbers just need to be tweaked a bit.
Inno pls...
Erik.TheRed
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1655 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 18:44:21
September 23 2013 18:44 GMT
#84
On September 24 2013 03:41 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 03:38 Erik.TheRed wrote:
On September 24 2013 03:36 Plansix wrote:
On September 24 2013 03:35 Erik.TheRed wrote:
Kind of confused of the logic behind oracle buff. It's only seeing use early game, so reduce gas cost by 50... and how is that going to make people decide to "keep building them"? In PvZ having any in the midgame before tempests are out is dumb, making void rays is always better. In PvT if you're continuing to make anything out of the stargate after an oracle into macro play (except for maybe phoenix) then you're going to lose. And in pvp, MSC will shut down any amount of oracles and there's just no real reason to build them after the initial 1 or 2 anyway.

No one builds it and its one of the 2 protoss harassment units. Why wouldn't you try to make it more viable if no one uses it?

Also, its a test map, folks. A test map.


My point is that I don't think reducing the gas cost by 50 is going to make it any more viable. Good protoss harassment is largely based around spending minerals, which is why zealot warp ins/ warp prisms are always going to be a more solid choice for playing a macro game.

Why can't we have both and have good harassment with both the oracle and zealot harass? The patch specifically says its it trying to bring new styles in, not reinforce the styles we already use.


I'm not arguing what it would be nice to have. I'm just telling you why the change probably won't be effective at making the oracle into a solid macro harass unit that you continually build throughout the game. The opportunity cost is, in general, too high.
"See you space cowboy"
Frex
Profile Joined March 2012
Finland888 Posts
September 23 2013 18:44 GMT
#85
As a terran I feel insulted by these changes when I think of the TvP match-up.
pmp10
Profile Joined April 2012
3354 Posts
September 23 2013 18:44 GMT
#86
On September 24 2013 03:43 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 03:41 PhoenixVoid wrote:
I'm okay with most of the changes, but the DT speed change and Widow Mine nerf seem far too drastic.

I am willing to bet they tone both of those down and they are just putting the needle to max for the test map.

If 10% dps buff on a tank is their idea of a max then I don't want to know how the final change will look like.
Everlong
Profile Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1973 Posts
September 23 2013 18:45 GMT
#87
Could anyone calculate some numbers what exactly does this Tank buff do in terms of DPS and what how much better could actually Tank be vs Immortals? I myself have no idea how to do this lol.. Just askin
EJK
Profile Blog Joined September 2013
United States1302 Posts
September 23 2013 18:45 GMT
#88
I am willing to compromise on a widow mine nerf if it allows terran mech to be more viable!
Sc2 Terran Coach, top 16GM NA - interested in coaching? Message me on teamliquid!
Jer99
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada8159 Posts
September 23 2013 18:45 GMT
#89
On September 24 2013 03:44 Viserion wrote:
As a terran I feel insulted by these changes when I think of the TvP match-up.


I feel the same way, it's already hard enough to manage DT's as they are in the late game right now, this is just icing on protoss cake
StrategyTaeJa #1 || @TL_Jer99 || "seeker seeked out his seeking"
T.O.P. *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Hong Kong4685 Posts
September 23 2013 18:45 GMT
#90
With these changes, terran player percentage might fall to 10% on NA ladder.
Oracle comes in, Scvs go down, never a miscommunication.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
September 23 2013 18:45 GMT
#91
On September 24 2013 03:41 Luolis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 03:37 syriuszonito wrote:
YES! Let the terran tears flow, tvz will no longer be a 3base rally into win anymore!

You mean TvZ will be 70% winrate for Z now?

Nah Zvt might actually be balanced and Terran will actually have to do stuff rather then rally all game into winning. First month or 2 will probably be 55% favoring Zerg which is still lower then the current 56 or higher % of tvz now.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
September 23 2013 18:45 GMT
#92
As much as i like most of those changes, i feel like if Blizzard were to introduce all those changes in one patch it could pretty much screw up the game for a good 1-2 months. With WCS finals around the corner at BlizzConn it would be mega unfair to change it before that?
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
Wildmoon
Profile Joined December 2011
Thailand4189 Posts
September 23 2013 18:46 GMT
#93
Widow mine nerf will likely be toned down.
Wildmoon
Profile Joined December 2011
Thailand4189 Posts
September 23 2013 18:46 GMT
#94
On September 24 2013 03:45 Pandemona wrote:
As much as i like most of those changes, i feel like if Blizzard were to introduce all those changes in one patch it could pretty much screw up the game for a good 1-2 months. With WCS finals around the corner at BlizzConn it would be mega unfair to change it before that?


It's in the OP that these change will come after the final.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 18:47:54
September 23 2013 18:47 GMT
#95
On September 24 2013 03:45 Pandemona wrote:
As much as i like most of those changes, i feel like if Blizzard were to introduce all those changes in one patch it could pretty much screw up the game for a good 1-2 months. With WCS finals around the corner at BlizzConn it would be mega unfair to change it before that?

I think you underestimate how quickly the pros adapt. They will figure this stuff out pretty quickly. Also its for after the finals, so this is for the off season to spice the game up.

With that in mind, where is my carrier buff?
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Hier
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
2391 Posts
September 23 2013 18:47 GMT
#96
Warp Prism? Faster!
Mutas? Faster!
Medivacs? Faster!
Hydras? Faster!
Reapers? Faster!
.
.
.
Borrowed Roaches? Faster!
DTs? Faster!

I think Mine and Tank changes are the only ones on that list even remotely worth looking at.
"But on a more serious note..." -everyone on this forum at some point.
J_EU
Profile Joined January 2011
47 Posts
September 23 2013 18:47 GMT
#97
On September 24 2013 03:36 Zoku wrote:
Why does DK think decreasing oracle cost will result in mid/late game usage? Does he even play this game?


Isnt he NA GM random? Or used to be?
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10011 Posts
September 23 2013 18:48 GMT
#98
the protoss changes are mind numbingly terrible. i cant believe blizzard would even consider these changes
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
MstrJinbo
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1251 Posts
September 23 2013 18:48 GMT
#99
On September 24 2013 03:46 Wildmoon wrote:
Widow mine nerf will likely be toned down.


I thought bliz would do a similar reduction to the ghost emp nerf, didn't expect 1.1. I imagine they also have more room to give tanks additional buffs.
pimsc2
Profile Joined January 2012
France73 Posts
September 23 2013 18:48 GMT
#100
The issue I have with the proposed protoss buffs is that they make all in and cheese even more powerful now. It won't bring more harass lategame unfortunately… =( The Terran buffs are ok, the widow mine nerf seems huge to the point they won't be that useful against zerg… Anyway, we'll see.
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