• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:35
CEST 01:35
KST 08:35
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202522Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder3EWC 2025 - Replay Pack4Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced38BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings EWC 2025 - Replay Pack #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Greatest Players of All Time: 2025 Update Serral wins EWC 2025
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) TaeJa vs Creator Bo7 SC Evo Showmatch Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder Shield Battery Server New Patch BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL] Non-Korean Championship - Final weekend [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational
Strategy
Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Recover Binance Asset - Lost Recovery Masters Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Flash @ Namkraft Laddernet …
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 626 users

6 possible balance changes - David Kim - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
1350 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 66 67 68 Next
Erik.TheRed
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1655 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 18:35:48
September 23 2013 18:35 GMT
#41
Kind of confused of the logic behind oracle buff. It's only seeing use early game, so reduce gas cost by 50... and how is that going to make people decide to "keep building them"? In PvZ having any in the midgame before tempests are out is dumb, making void rays is always better. In PvT if you're continuing to make anything out of the stargate after an oracle into macro play (except for maybe phoenix) then you're going to lose. And in pvp, MSC will shut down any amount of oracles and there's just no real reason to build them after the initial 1 or 2 anyway.
"See you space cowboy"
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5356 Posts
September 23 2013 18:35 GMT
#42
On September 24 2013 03:34 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 03:33 c0ldfusion wrote:
repost...


Where's the other thread? I'll delete if repost.

This thread was faster, nobody was replying to the other thread so it got closed already
¯\_(シ)_/¯
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
September 23 2013 18:35 GMT
#43
--- Nuked ---
Pursuit_
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States1330 Posts
September 23 2013 18:35 GMT
#44
Mech and Air upgrades completely combined is kinda meh. Not really sure where this would come into effect except maybe in Mech vs Bio TvT.

Thats a huge nerf to Widow Mine radius, might just make Mines obsolete. Would rather see them nerfed on ease of use somehow, longer burrow time or decreased health or something along those lines.

Tank buff in the exact opposite direction of where it needs to go to replace Widow Mines. Tanks need to be more accessable or more forgiving, not 'stronger'. And I dont think such a small attack speed buff will help much.

Oracle cost lowered is going to make proxy Oracle -> 3 Gate Void Ray all-ins even more of a bitch to hold. otherwise I definitely dont think this will accomplish his stated goal.

DT movement speed bonus is scary, but a step in the right direction I think.

Roach burrowed movement speed seems like a good idea, it's pretty underutilized imo so maybe we'll see more of it with this.
In Somnis Veritas
Nerevar
Profile Joined January 2013
547 Posts
September 23 2013 18:35 GMT
#45
On September 24 2013 03:30 tar wrote:
holy crap! speed DTs xD

They're literally Orc Blademasters now.
Zoku
Profile Joined November 2010
307 Posts
September 23 2013 18:36 GMT
#46
Why does DK think decreasing oracle cost will result in mid/late game usage? Does he even play this game?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 23 2013 18:36 GMT
#47
On September 24 2013 03:35 Erik.TheRed wrote:
Kind of confused of the logic behind oracle buff. It's only seeing use early game, so reduce gas cost by 50... and how is that going to make people decide to "keep building them"? In PvZ having any in the midgame before tempests are out is dumb, making void rays is always better. In PvT if you're continuing to make anything out of the stargate after an oracle into macro play (except for maybe phoenix) then you're going to lose. And in pvp, MSC will shut down any amount of oracles and there's just no real reason to build them after the initial 1 or 2 anyway.

No one builds it and its one of the 2 protoss harassment units. Why wouldn't you try to make it more viable if no one uses it?

Also, its a test map, folks. A test map.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
syriuszonito
Profile Joined June 2011
Poland332 Posts
September 23 2013 18:37 GMT
#48
YES! Let the terran tears flow, tvz will no longer be a 3base rally into win anymore!
The one || My stream http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/syriuszonito
Pursuit_
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States1330 Posts
September 23 2013 18:37 GMT
#49
On September 24 2013 03:35 Nerevar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 03:30 tar wrote:
holy crap! speed DTs xD

They're literally Orc Blademasters now.


Not even close.
In Somnis Veritas
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
September 23 2013 18:37 GMT
#50
I'll have to see it used in game first, but I am somewhat in favor of the DT buff, since frequently it seems like you can just run your workers away from them and they have trouble catching up. And I don't think I would mind it if the dark templar was a standard unit you were supposed to get in the late game, much like the warp prism. Maybe it's strategically boring to be forced into a unit, but if protoss is lacking in harass play it might be a lesser evil decision.

There are three questions I would like to ask David Kim though:
1. What effects will it have to constantly increase the move speed of units?
2. Will microing your dark templars not become too easy for the protoss and too frustrating for the opponent?
3. Is there an increase in variance in protoss match-ups after buffing dark templar?
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Sajaki
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada1135 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 18:39:01
September 23 2013 18:37 GMT
#51
good news good news. DT change AND oracle change seems kinda wierd (as in both together not just one) but hey, if it makes P less turtle-y im all for it.

The combination buff of Mech air and ground is going to make marauder hellbat so much better in tvp because now u can get viking attack AND hellion damage in 1 upgrade.
Inno pls...
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
September 23 2013 18:38 GMT
#52
--- Nuked ---
MWY
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany284 Posts
September 23 2013 18:38 GMT
#53
Most Random Changes I've ever seen.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9381 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 18:39:01
September 23 2013 18:38 GMT
#54
With the curren way the econ works, tanks are just not gonna be fun to watch. I had prefered the idea that blizzard just intentionally made tanks bad in the midgame, and instead gave it a big late game upgrade (and then bio should receive indirect nerfs late game as well).
Major
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Mexico539 Posts
September 23 2013 18:38 GMT
#55
people seem to miss the point about oracle, i wanna see you all terrans deal with a proxy stargate with oracle + msc coming at same time.

and tanks still wont be used vs zerg problem isnt tank itself vs zerg its just tank isnt good in today playstyle vs zerg cause mutal play is too strong for tanks.

dunno what sup about speedy dts but .w.e i guess

and mech upgrades in 1 < good
Progamer
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 23 2013 18:38 GMT
#56
On September 24 2013 03:37 syriuszonito wrote:
YES! Let the terran tears flow, tvz will no longer be a 3base rally into win anymore!

Or opening for 2 match ups and then a bunch for TvT.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Erik.TheRed
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1655 Posts
September 23 2013 18:38 GMT
#57
On September 24 2013 03:36 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 03:35 Erik.TheRed wrote:
Kind of confused of the logic behind oracle buff. It's only seeing use early game, so reduce gas cost by 50... and how is that going to make people decide to "keep building them"? In PvZ having any in the midgame before tempests are out is dumb, making void rays is always better. In PvT if you're continuing to make anything out of the stargate after an oracle into macro play (except for maybe phoenix) then you're going to lose. And in pvp, MSC will shut down any amount of oracles and there's just no real reason to build them after the initial 1 or 2 anyway.

No one builds it and its one of the 2 protoss harassment units. Why wouldn't you try to make it more viable if no one uses it?

Also, its a test map, folks. A test map.


My point is that I don't think reducing the gas cost by 50 is going to make it any more viable. Good protoss harassment is largely based around spending minerals, which is why zealot warp ins/ warp prisms are always going to be a more solid choice for playing a macro game.
"See you space cowboy"
SolidMoose
Profile Joined June 2011
United States1240 Posts
September 23 2013 18:39 GMT
#58
DT change is awful. WM might be too extreme, I don't see it being cost effective anymore. Everything else seems good.
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 18:40:04
September 23 2013 18:39 GMT
#59
On September 24 2013 03:38 Sated wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 03:35 Sated wrote:
Blizzard once against emphasising that they see Protoss as a gimmicky race, instead of one that's meant to be solid...

=/

Oh, and nothing to help solve the Mutalisk switch problem. Blizzard's advice on that seems to be: "Better be psychic, bro!"


Nah, you just have to have stargates ready in PvZ if a muta switch is possible at all. It's hard but doable imo.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Slardar
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada7593 Posts
September 23 2013 18:40 GMT
#60
I'm in favor of ALL the changes. The game is stagnating competitively in my opinion, all of these changes are SOMETHING to look forward to.

Protoss has always been the "gimmick" race. Therefore, these buffs just follows that trend. Change is important, details can be kinked later. I'd much prefer a Stalker or Zealot buff, while simultaneously nerfing Colossus or Charge/Blink research speed to compensate.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 66 67 68 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 25m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 208
Nathanias 164
ForJumy 38
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 605
ggaemo 287
Aegong 76
NaDa 68
League of Legends
Grubby4482
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K800
taco 531
Foxcn322
Other Games
summit1g12636
shahzam792
Day[9].tv729
monkeys_forever243
Maynarde142
ViBE135
C9.Mang0114
Livibee83
Sick59
Trikslyr37
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1298
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH143
• Hupsaiya 68
• musti20045 34
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki14
• FirePhoenix11
• HerbMon 7
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota23207
League of Legends
• Doublelift5444
• TFBlade599
Other Games
• imaqtpie1432
• Day9tv729
Upcoming Events
DaveTesta Events
1h 25m
davetesta61
The PondCast
10h 25m
Online Event
16h 25m
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs TBD
Online Event
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs TBD
OSC
5 days
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
FEL Cracow 2025
Underdog Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
CC Div. A S7
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
Yuqilin POB S2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.