• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:44
CEST 02:44
KST 09:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202552RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams7Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 656 users

6 possible balance changes - David Kim - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
1350 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 66 67 68 Next
Erik.TheRed
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1655 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 18:35:48
September 23 2013 18:35 GMT
#41
Kind of confused of the logic behind oracle buff. It's only seeing use early game, so reduce gas cost by 50... and how is that going to make people decide to "keep building them"? In PvZ having any in the midgame before tempests are out is dumb, making void rays is always better. In PvT if you're continuing to make anything out of the stargate after an oracle into macro play (except for maybe phoenix) then you're going to lose. And in pvp, MSC will shut down any amount of oracles and there's just no real reason to build them after the initial 1 or 2 anyway.
"See you space cowboy"
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5356 Posts
September 23 2013 18:35 GMT
#42
On September 24 2013 03:34 SarcasmMonster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 03:33 c0ldfusion wrote:
repost...


Where's the other thread? I'll delete if repost.

This thread was faster, nobody was replying to the other thread so it got closed already
¯\_(シ)_/¯
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
September 23 2013 18:35 GMT
#43
--- Nuked ---
Pursuit_
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States1330 Posts
September 23 2013 18:35 GMT
#44
Mech and Air upgrades completely combined is kinda meh. Not really sure where this would come into effect except maybe in Mech vs Bio TvT.

Thats a huge nerf to Widow Mine radius, might just make Mines obsolete. Would rather see them nerfed on ease of use somehow, longer burrow time or decreased health or something along those lines.

Tank buff in the exact opposite direction of where it needs to go to replace Widow Mines. Tanks need to be more accessable or more forgiving, not 'stronger'. And I dont think such a small attack speed buff will help much.

Oracle cost lowered is going to make proxy Oracle -> 3 Gate Void Ray all-ins even more of a bitch to hold. otherwise I definitely dont think this will accomplish his stated goal.

DT movement speed bonus is scary, but a step in the right direction I think.

Roach burrowed movement speed seems like a good idea, it's pretty underutilized imo so maybe we'll see more of it with this.
In Somnis Veritas
Nerevar
Profile Joined January 2013
547 Posts
September 23 2013 18:35 GMT
#45
On September 24 2013 03:30 tar wrote:
holy crap! speed DTs xD

They're literally Orc Blademasters now.
Zoku
Profile Joined November 2010
307 Posts
September 23 2013 18:36 GMT
#46
Why does DK think decreasing oracle cost will result in mid/late game usage? Does he even play this game?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 23 2013 18:36 GMT
#47
On September 24 2013 03:35 Erik.TheRed wrote:
Kind of confused of the logic behind oracle buff. It's only seeing use early game, so reduce gas cost by 50... and how is that going to make people decide to "keep building them"? In PvZ having any in the midgame before tempests are out is dumb, making void rays is always better. In PvT if you're continuing to make anything out of the stargate after an oracle into macro play (except for maybe phoenix) then you're going to lose. And in pvp, MSC will shut down any amount of oracles and there's just no real reason to build them after the initial 1 or 2 anyway.

No one builds it and its one of the 2 protoss harassment units. Why wouldn't you try to make it more viable if no one uses it?

Also, its a test map, folks. A test map.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
syriuszonito
Profile Joined June 2011
Poland332 Posts
September 23 2013 18:37 GMT
#48
YES! Let the terran tears flow, tvz will no longer be a 3base rally into win anymore!
The one || My stream http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/syriuszonito
Pursuit_
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
United States1330 Posts
September 23 2013 18:37 GMT
#49
On September 24 2013 03:35 Nerevar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 03:30 tar wrote:
holy crap! speed DTs xD

They're literally Orc Blademasters now.


Not even close.
In Somnis Veritas
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
September 23 2013 18:37 GMT
#50
I'll have to see it used in game first, but I am somewhat in favor of the DT buff, since frequently it seems like you can just run your workers away from them and they have trouble catching up. And I don't think I would mind it if the dark templar was a standard unit you were supposed to get in the late game, much like the warp prism. Maybe it's strategically boring to be forced into a unit, but if protoss is lacking in harass play it might be a lesser evil decision.

There are three questions I would like to ask David Kim though:
1. What effects will it have to constantly increase the move speed of units?
2. Will microing your dark templars not become too easy for the protoss and too frustrating for the opponent?
3. Is there an increase in variance in protoss match-ups after buffing dark templar?
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Sajaki
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada1135 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 18:39:01
September 23 2013 18:37 GMT
#51
good news good news. DT change AND oracle change seems kinda wierd (as in both together not just one) but hey, if it makes P less turtle-y im all for it.

The combination buff of Mech air and ground is going to make marauder hellbat so much better in tvp because now u can get viking attack AND hellion damage in 1 upgrade.
Inno pls...
Sated
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
England4983 Posts
September 23 2013 18:38 GMT
#52
--- Nuked ---
MWY
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany284 Posts
September 23 2013 18:38 GMT
#53
Most Random Changes I've ever seen.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9376 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 18:39:01
September 23 2013 18:38 GMT
#54
With the curren way the econ works, tanks are just not gonna be fun to watch. I had prefered the idea that blizzard just intentionally made tanks bad in the midgame, and instead gave it a big late game upgrade (and then bio should receive indirect nerfs late game as well).
Major
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Mexico539 Posts
September 23 2013 18:38 GMT
#55
people seem to miss the point about oracle, i wanna see you all terrans deal with a proxy stargate with oracle + msc coming at same time.

and tanks still wont be used vs zerg problem isnt tank itself vs zerg its just tank isnt good in today playstyle vs zerg cause mutal play is too strong for tanks.

dunno what sup about speedy dts but .w.e i guess

and mech upgrades in 1 < good
Progamer
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
September 23 2013 18:38 GMT
#56
On September 24 2013 03:37 syriuszonito wrote:
YES! Let the terran tears flow, tvz will no longer be a 3base rally into win anymore!

Or opening for 2 match ups and then a bunch for TvT.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Erik.TheRed
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1655 Posts
September 23 2013 18:38 GMT
#57
On September 24 2013 03:36 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 03:35 Erik.TheRed wrote:
Kind of confused of the logic behind oracle buff. It's only seeing use early game, so reduce gas cost by 50... and how is that going to make people decide to "keep building them"? In PvZ having any in the midgame before tempests are out is dumb, making void rays is always better. In PvT if you're continuing to make anything out of the stargate after an oracle into macro play (except for maybe phoenix) then you're going to lose. And in pvp, MSC will shut down any amount of oracles and there's just no real reason to build them after the initial 1 or 2 anyway.

No one builds it and its one of the 2 protoss harassment units. Why wouldn't you try to make it more viable if no one uses it?

Also, its a test map, folks. A test map.


My point is that I don't think reducing the gas cost by 50 is going to make it any more viable. Good protoss harassment is largely based around spending minerals, which is why zealot warp ins/ warp prisms are always going to be a more solid choice for playing a macro game.
"See you space cowboy"
SolidMoose
Profile Joined June 2011
United States1240 Posts
September 23 2013 18:39 GMT
#58
DT change is awful. WM might be too extreme, I don't see it being cost effective anymore. Everything else seems good.
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-23 18:40:04
September 23 2013 18:39 GMT
#59
On September 24 2013 03:38 Sated wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2013 03:35 Sated wrote:
Blizzard once against emphasising that they see Protoss as a gimmicky race, instead of one that's meant to be solid...

=/

Oh, and nothing to help solve the Mutalisk switch problem. Blizzard's advice on that seems to be: "Better be psychic, bro!"


Nah, you just have to have stargates ready in PvZ if a muta switch is possible at all. It's hard but doable imo.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Slardar
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada7593 Posts
September 23 2013 18:40 GMT
#60
I'm in favor of ALL the changes. The game is stagnating competitively in my opinion, all of these changes are SOMETHING to look forward to.

Protoss has always been the "gimmick" race. Therefore, these buffs just follows that trend. Change is important, details can be kinked later. I'd much prefer a Stalker or Zealot buff, while simultaneously nerfing Colossus or Charge/Blink research speed to compensate.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 66 67 68 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10h 16m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 224
StarCraft: Brood War
sSak 59
Sexy 54
NaDa 45
ivOry 16
Dota 2
monkeys_forever1318
League of Legends
Dendi933
JimRising 332
syndereN168
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe300
Other Games
summit1g15053
tarik_tv7388
Day[9].tv769
shahzam664
ViBE259
C9.Mang0175
ToD155
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 115
• davetesta51
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 29
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Day9tv769
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
10h 16m
Serral vs Cure
Solar vs Classic
OSC
13h 16m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 9h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 13h
CSO Cup
1d 15h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 17h
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.