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On September 21 2013 04:45 Topdoller wrote:
Where are all these doom and gloom threads coming from? Whilst i can the points by the OP i just cant see any real purpose to the post, other than to exacerbate perceived flaws in the game.
Exactly. This seems like a very thought-out and articulate way to bring nothing new.
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It's up to Blizzard to make the needed fundamental changes to the game. What more can be said? If that happens, all else will eventually follow. The game should drive the scene.
It is.
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On September 21 2013 05:06 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 05:04 StarStruck wrote:On September 21 2013 05:00 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 21 2013 04:59 StarStruck wrote:On September 21 2013 04:43 RaiZ wrote:
I'm getting really tired of that lame korean's excuse. At best, you'd get more viewers but only for a few seasons. When ppl will realize that the foreigner lose to koreans within the first stage, you can be sure t'hey'll lose interest really quickly. They won't ever bother watching another european seasons because they'll know that it doesn't matter who qualify since they'll never ever be a non korean winning the global finals.
While it's great for the foreigner to win more money, it'll be completely pointless after a few seaons. Fuk that sh.t i'm tired of arguing with this whole korean / non-korean's debate.
Other than that, I pretty much agree with the OP. Yep, people simply don't know how to get them to their level, which is pretty funny considering how many times I brought up my methods. Mind reminding? I dare to say that infrastructure is only a partial reason koreans do dominate. The dedication is another. Considering I've brought it up over 50 times in my posts? I really rather not. Heck, I even wrote a long manifesto about it. I get really tired of repeating it. Hell, i would appreciate link to that manifesto, as i do not really read your posts.
Considering it's long and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt I'll break it down:
- increase amount of meaningful games between all regions
- create World Tour Circuit using GOM/OGN/IEM/MLG/DH/NASL/ESL/etc. as hosts. Each host already plans 3-4 major tournaments. We're using those tournaments to facilitate the points only this time...
- you see the same cast of characters at each and every tournament to build support and fan base
- players have to qualify to become a World Tour Circuit player.
- professional teams that have been accredited get to give a World Tour License to two of their players annually if they didn't qualify via points
- PL will be played at Majors
yadda yadda yadda.
Major problems with system:
High cost to fly and accommodate WTC players (they will be touring all the time so it's hard to get practice in-- technically all the games they will be playing is there practice time.. you have one week of practice and then you're on the road again technically). This can also be viewed as a positive considering all players will be playing under the same circumstances (i.e. jetlag), but this could effect the quality of the games. More negatives than positives although many players already fly out a lot to every other major already. This also helps us weed out certain teams. So it does go both ways.
Okay, I'm already getting bored of explaining it, but it does go on and on.
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Russian Federation40186 Posts
On September 21 2013 05:25 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 05:06 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 21 2013 05:04 StarStruck wrote:On September 21 2013 05:00 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 21 2013 04:59 StarStruck wrote:On September 21 2013 04:43 RaiZ wrote:
I'm getting really tired of that lame korean's excuse. At best, you'd get more viewers but only for a few seasons. When ppl will realize that the foreigner lose to koreans within the first stage, you can be sure t'hey'll lose interest really quickly. They won't ever bother watching another european seasons because they'll know that it doesn't matter who qualify since they'll never ever be a non korean winning the global finals.
While it's great for the foreigner to win more money, it'll be completely pointless after a few seaons. Fuk that sh.t i'm tired of arguing with this whole korean / non-korean's debate.
Other than that, I pretty much agree with the OP. Yep, people simply don't know how to get them to their level, which is pretty funny considering how many times I brought up my methods. Mind reminding? I dare to say that infrastructure is only a partial reason koreans do dominate. The dedication is another. Considering I've brought it up over 50 times in my posts? I really rather not. Heck, I even wrote a long manifesto about it. I get really tired of repeating it. Hell, i would appreciate link to that manifesto, as i do not really read your posts. Considering it's long and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt I'll break it down: - increase amount of meaningful games between all regions - create World Tour Circuit using GOM/OGN/IEM/MLG/DH/NASL/ESL/etc. as hosts. Each host already plans 3-4 major tournaments. We're using those tournaments to facilitate the points only this time... - you see the same cast of characters at each and every tournament to build support and fan base - players have to qualify to become a World Tour Circuit player. - professional teams that have been accredited get to give a World Tour License to two of their players annually if they didn't qualify via points - PL will be played at Majors yadda yadda yadda. Major problems with system: High cost to fly and accommodate WTC players (they will be touring all the time so it's hard to get practice in-- technically all the games they will be playing is there practice time.. you have one week of practice and then you're on the road again technically). This can also be viewed as a positive considering all players will be playing under the same circumstances (i.e. jetlag), but this could effect the quality of the games. More negatives than positives although many players already fly out a lot to every other major already. This also helps us weed out certain teams. So it does go both ways. Okay, I'm already getting bored of explaining it, but it does go on and on.
I see where you are going here, it all makes sense. It would make foreigners dying species though i guess since Korea has more than enough talented players to be the main cast of players at this WTC kind of thing.
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On September 21 2013 05:15 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 05:06 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 21 2013 05:04 StarStruck wrote:On September 21 2013 05:00 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 21 2013 04:59 StarStruck wrote:On September 21 2013 04:43 RaiZ wrote:
I'm getting really tired of that lame korean's excuse. At best, you'd get more viewers but only for a few seasons. When ppl will realize that the foreigner lose to koreans within the first stage, you can be sure t'hey'll lose interest really quickly. They won't ever bother watching another european seasons because they'll know that it doesn't matter who qualify since they'll never ever be a non korean winning the global finals.
While it's great for the foreigner to win more money, it'll be completely pointless after a few seaons. Fuk that sh.t i'm tired of arguing with this whole korean / non-korean's debate.
Other than that, I pretty much agree with the OP. Yep, people simply don't know how to get them to their level, which is pretty funny considering how many times I brought up my methods. Mind reminding? I dare to say that infrastructure is only a partial reason koreans do dominate. The dedication is another. Considering I've brought it up over 50 times in my posts? I really rather not. Heck, I even wrote a long manifesto about it. I get really tired of repeating it. Hell, i would appreciate link to that manifesto, as i do not really read your posts. I can give you the short version: You can only become a champion in a vacuum if everyone else is also in a vacuum.
That's a pretty piss poor version of it considering the actual manifesto addressed every point to build a successful system for every player involved.
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On September 21 2013 05:28 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 05:25 StarStruck wrote:On September 21 2013 05:06 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 21 2013 05:04 StarStruck wrote:On September 21 2013 05:00 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 21 2013 04:59 StarStruck wrote:On September 21 2013 04:43 RaiZ wrote:
I'm getting really tired of that lame korean's excuse. At best, you'd get more viewers but only for a few seasons. When ppl will realize that the foreigner lose to koreans within the first stage, you can be sure t'hey'll lose interest really quickly. They won't ever bother watching another european seasons because they'll know that it doesn't matter who qualify since they'll never ever be a non korean winning the global finals.
While it's great for the foreigner to win more money, it'll be completely pointless after a few seaons. Fuk that sh.t i'm tired of arguing with this whole korean / non-korean's debate.
Other than that, I pretty much agree with the OP. Yep, people simply don't know how to get them to their level, which is pretty funny considering how many times I brought up my methods. Mind reminding? I dare to say that infrastructure is only a partial reason koreans do dominate. The dedication is another. Considering I've brought it up over 50 times in my posts? I really rather not. Heck, I even wrote a long manifesto about it. I get really tired of repeating it. Hell, i would appreciate link to that manifesto, as i do not really read your posts. Considering it's long and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt I'll break it down: - increase amount of meaningful games between all regions - create World Tour Circuit using GOM/OGN/IEM/MLG/DH/NASL/ESL/etc. as hosts. Each host already plans 3-4 major tournaments. We're using those tournaments to facilitate the points only this time... - you see the same cast of characters at each and every tournament to build support and fan base - players have to qualify to become a World Tour Circuit player. - professional teams that have been accredited get to give a World Tour License to two of their players annually if they didn't qualify via points - PL will be played at Majors yadda yadda yadda. Major problems with system: High cost to fly and accommodate WTC players (they will be touring all the time so it's hard to get practice in-- technically all the games they will be playing is there practice time.. you have one week of practice and then you're on the road again technically). This can also be viewed as a positive considering all players will be playing under the same circumstances (i.e. jetlag), but this could effect the quality of the games. More negatives than positives although many players already fly out a lot to every other major already. This also helps us weed out certain teams. So it does go both ways. Okay, I'm already getting bored of explaining it, but it does go on and on. I see were you are going here, it all makes sense. It would make foreigners dying species though i guess.
Not really, because in my system we're giving foreigners a lot more kicks at the can. Instead of giving them two to three kicks. They're getting 40-60. That's a lot of shots. If you want to get better at what you do you always have to be playing against guys and girls who are better than you. Not only that accredited teams get to select individuals who they think are up to snuff when they didn't really qualify the natural way. This system is great for building a fanbase as well because you will see these players non-stop at every tournament. That's how you start building faces. The more games between the players the better because stories start to take shape.
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On September 21 2013 05:28 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 05:15 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2013 05:06 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 21 2013 05:04 StarStruck wrote:On September 21 2013 05:00 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 21 2013 04:59 StarStruck wrote:On September 21 2013 04:43 RaiZ wrote:
I'm getting really tired of that lame korean's excuse. At best, you'd get more viewers but only for a few seasons. When ppl will realize that the foreigner lose to koreans within the first stage, you can be sure t'hey'll lose interest really quickly. They won't ever bother watching another european seasons because they'll know that it doesn't matter who qualify since they'll never ever be a non korean winning the global finals.
While it's great for the foreigner to win more money, it'll be completely pointless after a few seaons. Fuk that sh.t i'm tired of arguing with this whole korean / non-korean's debate.
Other than that, I pretty much agree with the OP. Yep, people simply don't know how to get them to their level, which is pretty funny considering how many times I brought up my methods. Mind reminding? I dare to say that infrastructure is only a partial reason koreans do dominate. The dedication is another. Considering I've brought it up over 50 times in my posts? I really rather not. Heck, I even wrote a long manifesto about it. I get really tired of repeating it. Hell, i would appreciate link to that manifesto, as i do not really read your posts. I can give you the short version: You can only become a champion in a vacuum if everyone else is also in a vacuum. That's a pretty piss poor version of it considering the actual manifesto addressed every point to build a successful system for every player involved.
I said it was short, I didn't say it accurate on every point. Plus I couldn't remember them all off the top of my head. But that was the largest point I got from it, that champions don't just spring from the ground, fully formed.
Also, that players should play in competitive matches more general. That ladder play is not the best practice and does not really provide the skills to be a champion.
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Russian Federation40186 Posts
On September 21 2013 05:32 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 05:28 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 21 2013 05:25 StarStruck wrote:On September 21 2013 05:06 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 21 2013 05:04 StarStruck wrote:On September 21 2013 05:00 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 21 2013 04:59 StarStruck wrote:On September 21 2013 04:43 RaiZ wrote:
I'm getting really tired of that lame korean's excuse. At best, you'd get more viewers but only for a few seasons. When ppl will realize that the foreigner lose to koreans within the first stage, you can be sure t'hey'll lose interest really quickly. They won't ever bother watching another european seasons because they'll know that it doesn't matter who qualify since they'll never ever be a non korean winning the global finals.
While it's great for the foreigner to win more money, it'll be completely pointless after a few seaons. Fuk that sh.t i'm tired of arguing with this whole korean / non-korean's debate.
Other than that, I pretty much agree with the OP. Yep, people simply don't know how to get them to their level, which is pretty funny considering how many times I brought up my methods. Mind reminding? I dare to say that infrastructure is only a partial reason koreans do dominate. The dedication is another. Considering I've brought it up over 50 times in my posts? I really rather not. Heck, I even wrote a long manifesto about it. I get really tired of repeating it. Hell, i would appreciate link to that manifesto, as i do not really read your posts. Considering it's long and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt I'll break it down: - increase amount of meaningful games between all regions - create World Tour Circuit using GOM/OGN/IEM/MLG/DH/NASL/ESL/etc. as hosts. Each host already plans 3-4 major tournaments. We're using those tournaments to facilitate the points only this time... - you see the same cast of characters at each and every tournament to build support and fan base - players have to qualify to become a World Tour Circuit player. - professional teams that have been accredited get to give a World Tour License to two of their players annually if they didn't qualify via points - PL will be played at Majors yadda yadda yadda. Major problems with system: High cost to fly and accommodate WTC players (they will be touring all the time so it's hard to get practice in-- technically all the games they will be playing is there practice time.. you have one week of practice and then you're on the road again technically). This can also be viewed as a positive considering all players will be playing under the same circumstances (i.e. jetlag), but this could effect the quality of the games. More negatives than positives although many players already fly out a lot to every other major already. This also helps us weed out certain teams. So it does go both ways. Okay, I'm already getting bored of explaining it, but it does go on and on. I see were you are going here, it all makes sense. It would make foreigners dying species though i guess. Not really, because in my system we're giving foreigners a lot more kicks at the can. Instead of giving them two to three kicks. They're getting 40-60. That's a lot of shots. If you want to get better at what you do you always have to be playing against guys and girls who are better than you. Not only that accredited teams get to select individuals who they think are up to snuff when they didn't really qualify the natural way. This system is great for building a fanbase as well because you will see these players non-stop at every tournament. That's how you start building faces. The more games between the players the better because stories start to take shape.
And now that actually makes sense!
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On September 21 2013 04:56 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 04:47 Noobity wrote:On September 21 2013 04:36 Olferen wrote:
I feel that by having one regional champion we suddenly have a diluted scene. An American champ/player that is far inferior to the Korean champion should not be on the world stage. It will just create a scene in which bad players get the same recognition as their Korean peers. My argument to this is the Olympics. There are countries who are considerably better than others at certain events. That doesn't mean they don't deserve a chance to play at the highest level of competition if they can qualify. The Jamaicans have a bobsled team. They never win, but they've still competed. All a legitimate WCS region locking scenario does is create mini olympic games every season or year or whatever. We love the olympics. I don't see how this is a bad direction. Damn, i am some kind of a wrong person. Granted real life sports are saturated with that thing some people call pride for your hometown heroes. For Jamaicans: hey, we are likely not to win this, as it is not sprint on 100m, but hey, we are competing! Also, i dare to say that gap between Jamaican bobsled team and whatever team is dominating the challenge is not really as wide as gap between GSL and region-locked WCS AM with only players having realistic chance to take games (and series even if we think Scarlett) being winner of WCS AM against ~70 players in Code A + Code S that can handily beat Scarlett on good day and embarassingly fall to her on bad one (or good day in Scarlett's calendar).
I think you vastly underestimate the best of NA and vastly overestimate Korea. 70 pros that can "handily" beat Scarlett? Really?
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The real problem is that the game is too frustrating to be played casually and too boring to watch competitively unless foreigners can build a storyline.
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On September 21 2013 03:40 Xeris wrote:What's the problem: I feel like SC2's gameplay is inherently less fun to watch than Brood War, aside from the graphics. Matches feel stale and anticlimactic.There was a really great article HERE that discusses the issue of why Brood War and StarCraft 2 are different games. It hinges on Day9's analysis of 'frisbee vs baseball'. Unfortunately for StarCraft 2, the 'frisbee' is more fun and exciting to watch. What I mean by this is, using the information provided in the aforementioned article, battles in StarCraft 2 are much less interesting than in Brood War. The game aspects that make StarCraft 2 insanely difficult to master and challenging go largely unappreciated by viewers. For example: the positioning and posturing of two armies prior to a battle are absolutely key in StarCraft 2, because once the battle starts, little can be done to change the outcome. This posturing however is incredibly hard to translate into excitement on the part of the viewer. StarCraft 2 battles feature things blowing up, and blobs disappearing. There is much less micro and "play" potential in StarCraft 2 because of how its pathing and units are designed. In Brood War, actual battles are much more exciting, and I feel as if these are the lynchpin of the viewer experience. Seeing an intensely micro'd battle, or a player with a smaller force taking down a player with a bigger force because of superior unit control and micro is exciting. Knowing that Brood War is more difficult to execute gives the viewer more appreciation for incredible marine splits, storms, and multi-tasking in battle. It is easy to see the impact of the player directly on the battlefield because you know that every action is manually performed by the user, while StarCraft 2's battles are essentially simulations: there is comparatively little the player can do to impact the outcome of a battle in StarCraft 2. I don't really see how this problem can be fixed since it is part of the game design.
This problem is a hell of a lot more important than people give it credit for. Blizzard's mishandling of their tourney-takeover is of much less importance than how they, for a lack of a better word, "ruined" StarCraft's gameplay. It's a significant part of why ex-Brood War players have left. How many of them do you see streaming SC2 in their spare-time for fans? How many of their fans even care about SC2, now that their players have left?
Big names in the community need to convince Blizzard that what SC2 needs for LotV is a complete overhaul, including the reintroduction of many BW mechanics and units. Otherwise, they'll just try to give us another Warhound or something idiotic. I don't think people will stick around to play if that happens.
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On September 21 2013 04:59 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 04:51 Gackt_ wrote:
BW was simply better. I got tired of the units..I prefered the math they used in BW, it made more sense. Im talking about the attackpower, and defence etc on the units..and I also prefered the non-unitcounter thingy. This SC2 "unit X counters unit Y" is not as entertaining. I mean, the reaper, the lurker and the siege tank made sensible splash dmg / aoe dmg in BW. The banelings, the spidermines and the silly collosus isnt really fun to see or to feel while playing..and the forcefields are just a gamebreaker.
I stopped playing long ago because of the units and the new system.
What was wrong with the BW system? Nothing, we just wanted a new game with similar units and better graphics but with the same system. At least I did..
edit:
oh and now the GSL isnt as prestigious to win anymore since they changed to this WCS US/EU/KR thingy.. thats sad too as people have said. BW was that kind of Flash blessed game, that while being rushed and bugged as hell managed to have sick magic (then i microed some dragoons and ragequit) coupled with feature apparently alot like: half of screen covered with 1 chat window.
Why do you have to bring up the battlenet's interface into this? lol, anyways, it that was awesome too
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agreed with almost everything. Great job Duran
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On September 21 2013 05:45 PineapplePizza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 03:40 Xeris wrote:What's the problem: I feel like SC2's gameplay is inherently less fun to watch than Brood War, aside from the graphics. Matches feel stale and anticlimactic.There was a really great article HERE that discusses the issue of why Brood War and StarCraft 2 are different games. It hinges on Day9's analysis of 'frisbee vs baseball'. Unfortunately for StarCraft 2, the 'frisbee' is more fun and exciting to watch. What I mean by this is, using the information provided in the aforementioned article, battles in StarCraft 2 are much less interesting than in Brood War. The game aspects that make StarCraft 2 insanely difficult to master and challenging go largely unappreciated by viewers. For example: the positioning and posturing of two armies prior to a battle are absolutely key in StarCraft 2, because once the battle starts, little can be done to change the outcome. This posturing however is incredibly hard to translate into excitement on the part of the viewer. StarCraft 2 battles feature things blowing up, and blobs disappearing. There is much less micro and "play" potential in StarCraft 2 because of how its pathing and units are designed. In Brood War, actual battles are much more exciting, and I feel as if these are the lynchpin of the viewer experience. Seeing an intensely micro'd battle, or a player with a smaller force taking down a player with a bigger force because of superior unit control and micro is exciting. Knowing that Brood War is more difficult to execute gives the viewer more appreciation for incredible marine splits, storms, and multi-tasking in battle. It is easy to see the impact of the player directly on the battlefield because you know that every action is manually performed by the user, while StarCraft 2's battles are essentially simulations: there is comparatively little the player can do to impact the outcome of a battle in StarCraft 2. I don't really see how this problem can be fixed since it is part of the game design. This problem is a hell of a lot more important than people give it credit for. Blizzard's mishandling of their tourney-takeover is of much less importance than how they, for a lack of a better word, "ruined" StarCraft's gameplay. It's a significant part of why ex-Brood War players have left. How many of them do you see streaming SC2 in their spare-time for fans? How many of their fans even care about SC2, now that their players have left? Big names in the community need to convince Blizzard that what SC2 needs for LotV is a complete overhaul, including the reintroduction of many BW mechanics and units. Otherwise, they'll just try to give us another Warhound or something idiotic. I don't think people will stick around to play if that happens.
I would like to see a very big overhaul with LotV, and I'd also like to see blizzard have the community take a more active role in helping shape what it should become. It seems like Blizzard is starting to get on track with the Diablo 3 expansion (removing the AH among a huge amount of improvements) and Hearthstone (they have said on Turn 2 that they are going to focus on implementing features that the community pushes for), but there is just so much silence currently from Blizzard in regards to their current plans with SC2, I'd love some transparency.
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Russian Federation40186 Posts
On September 21 2013 05:42 Noobity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 04:56 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 21 2013 04:47 Noobity wrote:On September 21 2013 04:36 Olferen wrote:
I feel that by having one regional champion we suddenly have a diluted scene. An American champ/player that is far inferior to the Korean champion should not be on the world stage. It will just create a scene in which bad players get the same recognition as their Korean peers. My argument to this is the Olympics. There are countries who are considerably better than others at certain events. That doesn't mean they don't deserve a chance to play at the highest level of competition if they can qualify. The Jamaicans have a bobsled team. They never win, but they've still competed. All a legitimate WCS region locking scenario does is create mini olympic games every season or year or whatever. We love the olympics. I don't see how this is a bad direction. Damn, i am some kind of a wrong person. Granted real life sports are saturated with that thing some people call pride for your hometown heroes. For Jamaicans: hey, we are likely not to win this, as it is not sprint on 100m, but hey, we are competing! Also, i dare to say that gap between Jamaican bobsled team and whatever team is dominating the challenge is not really as wide as gap between GSL and region-locked WCS AM with only players having realistic chance to take games (and series even if we think Scarlett) being winner of WCS AM against ~70 players in Code A + Code S that can handily beat Scarlett on good day and embarassingly fall to her on bad one (or good day in Scarlett's calendar). I think you vastly underestimate the best of NA and vastly overestimate Korea. 70 pros that can "handily" beat Scarlett? Really?
In online play for sure. In off-line? Not so much. I consider korean qualifier madness as my basis for those assumptions. And you are not going to make those WTC tour qualifiers off-line, are you? Also, i said on good day of that korean pro. Remember WW.check getting out of bracket with *pretty stacked list of players* in IEM KR quali stage 1? That's what i am talking about.
On September 21 2013 05:51 Gackt_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 04:59 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 21 2013 04:51 Gackt_ wrote:
BW was simply better. I got tired of the units..I prefered the math they used in BW, it made more sense. Im talking about the attackpower, and defence etc on the units..and I also prefered the non-unitcounter thingy. This SC2 "unit X counters unit Y" is not as entertaining. I mean, the reaper, the lurker and the siege tank made sensible splash dmg / aoe dmg in BW. The banelings, the spidermines and the silly collosus isnt really fun to see or to feel while playing..and the forcefields are just a gamebreaker.
I stopped playing long ago because of the units and the new system.
What was wrong with the BW system? Nothing, we just wanted a new game with similar units and better graphics but with the same system. At least I did..
edit:
oh and now the GSL isnt as prestigious to win anymore since they changed to this WCS US/EU/KR thingy.. thats sad too as people have said. BW was that kind of Flash blessed game, that while being rushed and bugged as hell managed to have sick magic (then i microed some dragoons and ragequit) coupled with feature apparently alot like: half of screen covered with 1 chat window. Why do you have to bring up the battlenet's interface into this? lol, anyways, it that was awesome too
Because apparently the battle.net interface was the thing ALOT of people liked in BW way more than in SC2. Granted, customs were considered better too (well, not my cup of tea so cannot judge that).
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I do agree with the point that the ladder has hurt SC2 more than it has helped. The focus on ladder score, rankings and the idea that your time was not being well spent unless you were building that rank took away the focus from the arcade and all the dumb stuff we loved in BW and WC3.
I don't think anyone would have known this, as we were all pretty ok with the ladder when we dove into WoL. The problem was that there was nothing else to do when we got tired of the laddering.
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let this game die, is beyond repair already
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Protoss is the biggest problem with SC2. The entire race was designed on the back of a torn napkin 3 days before beta was launched,
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My point of view as a spectator:
format: WCS system is fine. If we make something to let Europeans and Americans play without Koreans, I will probably stop to watch and I'm not sur that it will last for long.
gameplay: I agree that everything die too quikly but I don't think that Blizzard will even try to change it.
One thing that bring new strategies is when we can see completly different maps. Map like Arkanoid or Bifrost force players to innovate and adapt. Unfortunately, people complain too much when they have to adapt so we get the same match up in pretty much every map 
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On September 21 2013 06:21 Garmer wrote:
let this game die, is beyond repair already
I wish we could all give another game a try, but sadly RTS are too few, and we are a starcraft / warcraft scene anyway, not a RTS scene. =/
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EPT
