EPTWhile it's great for the foreigner to win more money, it'll be completely pointless after a few seaons. Fuk that sh.t i'm tired of arguing with this whole korean / non-korean's debate.
Other than that, I pretty much agree with the OP.
StarCraft 2: What's The Problem - Page 2
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
While it's great for the foreigner to win more money, it'll be completely pointless after a few seaons. Fuk that sh.t i'm tired of arguing with this whole korean / non-korean's debate. Other than that, I pretty much agree with the OP. | ||
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dsousa
United States1363 Posts
When SC2 was HOT HOT HOT in 2011 and Reddit and TL were taking off with more and more people coming to them for SC2 we had some overeager mods from both sites that, I think, really stymied the scene. Reddit mods went nuts and decided to try changing things so much, removing images, removing fluff and the scene really lost a lot of its fun and childish allure. /r/starcraft used to be funny and quirky and interesting and mods neutered it in an attempt to "bring quality content". They tried to turn reddit into TL and left us with nothing that was pure fun and silly. TL was less of a buzzkill, but still it was. I remember fans having a blast in some LR threads making images that were hilarious and in real time relevant to the content of the tournement we were watching. Then mods decided we'd had enough fun and banned them. I don't think it is the biggest reason for SC2's downfall, but it was a factor. When SC2 was up and coming and growing fast, the community site mods tried to grab their piece of the power and ruined the fun. For me at least, that was a big deal, especially reddit because I think a strong sub-reddit would have done more than anything to bring new people and new ideas into the scene. Whoever those reddit mods were.... fuck you.... you ruined a good thing. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3463 Posts
It's so saddening to see and discourages you to log in and play the game, so I beg people to use this thread and not make hundred new ones. Sick thread Xeris! | ||
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Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
SC2 is over 3 years old and 1 expansion in. It will not change significantly in the future so why rehash the same topics from 3 years ago. SC2 will live or die based on its current state. If you dont like the game move on to another, there are other games to choose from Really reminds me of the Everquest and WoW forums haunted by posts like this. Play the game, have fun then move on its simple as that. Posts such as these actually destroy the game because of the negativity they generate. | ||
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Noobity
United States871 Posts
On September 21 2013 04:36 Olferen wrote: I feel that by having one regional champion we suddenly have a diluted scene. An American champ/player that is far inferior to the Korean champion should not be on the world stage. It will just create a scene in which bad players get the same recognition as their Korean peers. My argument to this is the Olympics. There are countries who are considerably better than others at certain events. That doesn't mean they don't deserve a chance to play at the highest level of competition if they can qualify. The Jamaicans have a bobsled team. They never win, but they've still competed. All a legitimate WCS region locking scenario does is create mini olympic games every season or year or whatever. We love the olympics. I don't see how this is a bad direction. | ||
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Gackt_
335 Posts
I stopped playing long ago because of the units and the new system. What was wrong with the BW system? Nothing, we just wanted a new game with similar units and better graphics but with the same system. At least I did.. edit: oh and now the GSL isnt as prestigious to win anymore since they changed to this WCS US/EU/KR thingy.. thats sad too as people have said. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 21 2013 04:47 Noobity wrote: My argument to this is the Olympics. There are countries who are considerably better than others at certain events. That doesn't mean they don't deserve a chance to play at the highest level of competition if they can qualify. The Jamaicans have a bobsled team. They never win, but they've still competed. All a legitimate WCS region locking scenario does is create mini olympic games every season or year or whatever. We love the olympics. I don't see how this is a bad direction. Damn, i am some kind of a wrong person. Granted real life sports are saturated with that thing some people call pride for your hometown heroes. For Jamaicans: hey, we are likely not to win this, as it is not sprint on 100m, but hey, we are competing! Also, i dare to say that gap between Jamaican bobsled team and whatever team is dominating the challenge is not really as wide as gap between GSL and region-locked WCS AM with only players having realistic chance to take games (and series even if we think Scarlett) being winner of WCS AM against ~70 players in Code A + Code S that can handily beat Scarlett on good day and embarassingly fall to her on bad one (or good day in Scarlett's calendar). | ||
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
On September 21 2013 04:43 RaiZ wrote: I'm getting really tired of that lame korean's excuse. At best, you'd get more viewers but only for a few seasons. When ppl will realize that the foreigner lose to koreans within the first stage, you can be sure t'hey'll lose interest really quickly. They won't ever bother watching another european seasons because they'll know that it doesn't matter who qualify since they'll never ever be a non korean winning the global finals. While it's great for the foreigner to win more money, it'll be completely pointless after a few seaons. Fuk that sh.t i'm tired of arguing with this whole korean / non-korean's debate. Other than that, I pretty much agree with the OP. Everyone knows the United States will win the Olympics for basketball, and yet people still watch it and care about it. Just because there is a regional skill disparity doesn't mean you can't create compelling games. Did anyone think Spain would beat the USA in 2008 or 2012? No - but they actually put up a fight and created some of the most memorable basketball games ever played. Similarly, watching Draco vs Iloveoov in WCG 2007 or watching Mondragon vs Nal_rA were like a dream... when the foreign hopes played against the best Koreans and put up a fight. People live for stories like that... and imagine if they won, the world would have exploded. There's a level of hype and excitement that comes around a very rare event featuring the best players around the world coming together to compete, even if you know there are clear favorites (Koreans, in this case, or Americans in basketball). | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 21 2013 04:51 Gackt_ wrote: BW was simply better. I got tired of the units..I prefered the math they used in BW, it made more sense. Im talking about the attackpower, and defence etc on the units..and I also prefered the non-unitcounter thingy. This SC2 "unit X counters unit Y" is not as entertaining. I mean, the reaper, the lurker and the siege tank made sensible splash dmg / aoe dmg in BW. The banelings, the spidermines and the silly collosus isnt really fun to see or to feel while playing..and the forcefields are just a gamebreaker. I stopped playing long ago because of the units and the new system. What was wrong with the BW system? Nothing, we just wanted a new game with similar units and better graphics but with the same system. At least I did.. edit: oh and now the GSL isnt as prestigious to win anymore since they changed to this WCS US/EU/KR thingy.. thats sad too as people have said. BW was that kind of Flash blessed game, that while being rushed and bugged as hell managed to have sick magic (then i microed some dragoons and ragequit) coupled with feature apparently alot like: half of screen covered with 1 chat window. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On September 21 2013 04:43 RaiZ wrote: I'm getting really tired of that lame korean's excuse. At best, you'd get more viewers but only for a few seasons. When ppl will realize that the foreigner lose to koreans within the first stage, you can be sure t'hey'll lose interest really quickly. They won't ever bother watching another european seasons because they'll know that it doesn't matter who qualify since they'll never ever be a non korean winning the global finals. While it's great for the foreigner to win more money, it'll be completely pointless after a few seaons. Fuk that sh.t i'm tired of arguing with this whole korean / non-korean's debate. Other than that, I pretty much agree with the OP. Yep, people simply don't know how to get them to their level, which is pretty funny considering how many times I brought up my methods. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 21 2013 04:59 StarStruck wrote: Yep, people simply don't know how to get them to their level, which is pretty funny considering how many times I brought up my methods. Mind reminding? I dare to say that infrastructure is only a partial reason koreans do dominate. The dedication is another. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On September 21 2013 04:58 Xeris wrote: Everyone knows the United States will win the Olympics for basketball, and yet people still watch it and care about it. Just because there is a regional skill disparity doesn't mean you can't create compelling games. Did anyone think Spain would beat the USA in 2008 or 2012? No - but they actually put up a fight and created some of the most memorable basketball games ever played. Similarly, watching Draco vs Iloveoov in WCG 2007 or watching Mondragon vs Nal_rA were like a dream... when the foreign hopes played against the best Koreans and put up a fight. People live for stories like that... and imagine if they won, the world would have exploded. There's a level of hype and excitement that comes around a very rare event featuring the best players around the world coming together to compete, even if you know there are clear favorites (Koreans, in this case, or Americans in basketball). The reason you could even think of bringing up the WCG is because that's the only real tournament we had when it came to the amateurs playing against professional Koreans unless you made it onto a KeSPA Pro Team. I'm getting very tired of these arguments against the format. | ||
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meep
United States1699 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On September 21 2013 05:00 lolfail9001 wrote: Mind reminding? I dare to say that infrastructure is only a partial reason koreans do dominate. The dedication is another. Considering I've brought it up over 50 times in my posts? I really rather not. Heck, I even wrote a long manifesto about it. I get really tired of repeating it. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 21 2013 05:04 StarStruck wrote: Considering I've brought it up over 50 times in my posts? I really rather not. Heck, I even wrote a long manifesto about it. I get really tired of repeating it. Hell, i would appreciate link to that manifesto, as i do not really read your posts. | ||
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MVega
763 Posts
Dustin Browder said it before SC2 was even released, progamers aren't born, they're made. We know that the Korean level of dedication and the environment works. We KNOW that. Some players understand that just traveling to Korea for a month and playing isn't enough, but most seem to not realize that. Non-Korean progamers need the Korean training regimen and environment if they're going to step up to that level. Blizzard can meet them half-way and provide assistance on that front, and thus pave the way for teams to make that investment, but it's still up to the pros themselves to put in the required effort after. | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
On September 21 2013 03:50 JustPassingBy wrote: Regarding viewership, I'll just quote something I wrote on reddit (note that is was before Ret's speech at meta): Well said. This is basically my take as well. To me the problem with SC2, in comparing its fanbase-size, is a simple lack of marketing. It isn't the players, or some website, or the community, of the lack of pro-foreigners, etc. I don't think any of those things people complain about on this forum is actually going to prevent someone from watching SC2 if they understand, respect and admire the mechanical and strategic challenges that the top professional players are required to perform, because it truly is incomparable to any other modern game. LoL marketed their game around their professional tournaments, and it's earned them players and viewers. SC2 should've done this off the bat, as it's only started to do now with the WCS. It would've garnered a larger and more consistent following. But given that, I don't understand why people are so dour all the time. STOP! SC2 is doing fine. There are still pros, mostly Korean, who're dedicated to this game, and it's still a thrill to watch them. We have another expansion to come, and I think there is still a long life ahead for SC2. It's the better game, and over time, I believe that will counter the complete lack of marketing. Or maybe it won't. But I'm not complaining. DRG is in the Ro16, all is well. | ||
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Undead1993
Germany17651 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 21 2013 05:06 lolfail9001 wrote: Hell, i would appreciate link to that manifesto, as i do not really read your posts. I can give you the short version: You can only become a champion in a vacuum if everyone else is also in a vacuum. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 21 2013 05:15 Plansix wrote: I can give you the short version: You can only become a champion in a vacuum if everyone else is also in a vacuum. Cap. Obvious mode engaged? | ||
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