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Winrates August (Source: Liquipedia) - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
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RifleCow
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada637 Posts
September 02 2013 22:09 GMT
#41
On September 03 2013 06:56 goody153 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2013 05:36 Sent. wrote:
It almost looks like P>T>Z>P. I hope blizzard can work this out.

lol .. sc2 the game of counters ..

Looked the same in BW. Just wish things got to end game stages more. I want to see Viper vs Raven in ZvT and ghost mech vs carriers in TvP.
hohoho
Rhaegal
Profile Blog Joined July 2013
United States678 Posts
September 02 2013 22:50 GMT
#42
Biggest reason I switched to LoL was because of TvP. Now that the winrates show it's an insanely hard and frustrating matchup even for the pros maybe Blizzard will try to make the matchup better.
http://www.twitch.tv/agonysc
M.R. McThundercrotch
Profile Joined June 2012
United States265 Posts
September 02 2013 22:56 GMT
#43
On September 03 2013 05:48 Papples wrote:
I'm pretty surprised that with all the complaining of ZvT, PvT seems even worst


Yeah, but that is just same shit, different day for Terrans, after Wings of Liberty. Zergs went from the absurdity that was Brood Lord/Infestor to a matchup that is actually challenging at the beginning and...there is no end. The beginning just keeps going and then they die.

Actually, PvT and ZvT are kind of similar in the early and mid-game, now. Except then Protoss have a powerful late-game to transition into and Zergs do not, much like Terran do not in TvP. Fix that problem for Zerg and Terran and I think ZvT and TvP would see a lot of improvement.
On June 30 2012 01:42 iNcontroL wrote: Fuck a lot of you. Fuck you forever.
Slashiepie
Profile Joined May 2013
107 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-02 22:59:56
September 02 2013 22:58 GMT
#44
I knew TvP could not be "balanced" as Kim said.
Inb4 theres no Protoss GSL Champion!
shin_toss
Profile Joined May 2010
Philippines2589 Posts
September 02 2013 23:43 GMT
#45
pretty balanced imo
AKMU / IU
fried_rice
Profile Blog Joined July 2013
198 Posts
September 03 2013 00:24 GMT
#46
On September 03 2013 04:57 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:

Chargelot archon is now much less viable as protoss due to widow mines and hellbats doing all kinds of hell on the zealots.

I'd like to see more pre-medivac aggression options for Terran, though, photon overcharge takes a lot of stress off of defending before I get my second set of 3 gateways up.


OH YES! The dreaded WM+Hellbat TvP composition, stomping them bronze players left and right!
VeTerrAn1
Profile Joined February 2013
Switzerland39 Posts
September 03 2013 07:40 GMT
#47
On September 03 2013 08:43 shin_toss wrote:
pretty balanced imo


not very qualitfied and deliberate answer ...

the tendency is there, i mean around 57% is not slightly in favor of Terran in TvZ and for Protoss in PvT. As terran player it feels very frustrating vs Protoss, so i can feel with Zergs, which are at kinda same situation vs Terran (even if i play not very well against zerg ^^ as terran)

I hope they (Blizzard) will find a way to solve this problems. I mean if i lose, its ok, but often if i lose a TvP i think there was kinda imbalance, because generally the Protoss defend his 2/3 bases and then push out around 14min, often kill my main army and win the game. There is so much more pressure on us terrans in this matchup during the first 15min, and this is in my opinion not balanced. If i could always play like a Protoss can, macro up, defend with MC early aggression with ease, also i have the option to make a lot of diffrent all ins, which put some more pressure on the Terrans early game.

On my level of play i have 50% winrate vs Protoss, but it feels that i lose against worse players and win against the ones which have some lacks in macro skill.

Maybe mech can balance this MU, then the Protoss has to scout more to be sure whats coming, now 98% of the Terrans play bio with 10/11 min push


DinoToss
Profile Joined August 2013
Poland507 Posts
September 03 2013 07:54 GMT
#48
On September 03 2013 02:14 rift wrote:
T>Z, Z>P, P>T. They way it is meant to be.

Rejoice people. We made it.
My wrist really started to flare up. My colossi number started to pile up and with the last of my concentration I prepared for a win.
klup
Profile Joined May 2013
France612 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-03 08:33:40
September 03 2013 08:23 GMT
#49
On September 03 2013 04:57 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2013 04:02 Aquila- wrote:
TvP is even more broken than TvZ lol. But not surprising since Hots TvP is basically Wol TvP, except that Protoss now has all those new units and Terran has nothing new that is viable against P, excpet medivac boost which gets shut down by nexus cannon and early attacks from Terran are dead now too because of that.


Chargelot archon is now much less viable as protoss due to widow mines and hellbats doing all kinds of hell on the zealots.

I'd like to see more pre-medivac aggression options for Terran, though, photon overcharge takes a lot of stress off of defending before I get my second set of 3 gateways up.



Hellbat is very hard to transition to. I totally agree with Aquila , this matchup is ridiculously imbalanced atm mainly because of MSC that shut down about everything of early/mid game aggression making the matchup going straight into late game with protoss macroing and making directly his high cost efficient units with ridiculous upgrade advantage unpunished.

The promise of blizzard was that terran will get something to deal with the a+click chargelot archon ball as the hellbat but they nerfed it to the ground for obvious reason. Now we just have to pray that blizzard find a solution to make hellbat viable again in TvP without breaking the other MU again.

The only terran that crushes protoss right now is bomber and he only SCV pull but i guess this will be easily countered by slight adjustments in couple of days.

to balance TvP maybe something like get raven and BC immune to feedback could provide terran a viable air transition with high tier units. because right now you can't use any of those because of feedback. just an upgrade that could be research at SP.
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
September 03 2013 08:36 GMT
#50
So PvT is the reason Protoss has the best win rate of all 3 races..lol
Back to the design board Mr Kim ;_;
Was one of my favorite matches to TvP/PvT but now it just seems if Terran doesn't 2 base all in there pretty much fucked
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
klup
Profile Joined May 2013
France612 Posts
September 03 2013 08:46 GMT
#51
When you look at WCS. The only terrans that break protoss are bomber and Taeja and when you look at those two they play just perfectly the matchup. when you look at Taeja vs Rain it was obvious who was the better player here. But it took a 30 minute game of contain to actually break Rain when Taeja had a clear lead the entire game.
Frex
Profile Joined March 2012
Finland888 Posts
September 03 2013 08:51 GMT
#52
On September 03 2013 05:48 Papples wrote:
I'm pretty surprised that with all the complaining of ZvT, PvT seems even worst


As a terran It's not surprising to me. However, you just give up complaining when you only get counter-arguments and stagnant match-up for 3 years.
spalding
Profile Joined August 2010
95 Posts
September 03 2013 09:01 GMT
#53
I wonder what the TvP winrates would look like if you took away scv pulls, probably even worse. It's not just that protoss is clearly favoured in this matchup but what annoys me the most is that the engagements are so much harder for terran. Zealot+archon+hts is so ridiculously easy to control. You a move your zealots/archons, look for the biggest clump of terran units and just storm it. Get most of your army EMP'ed? np, use a defensive storm and retreat. Eat 2 big storms? Sorry, good game.
KrazyTrumpet
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2520 Posts
September 03 2013 09:06 GMT
#54
every month the terran tears are so delicious
www.twitch.tv/krazy Best Stream Quality NA @KClarkSC2
Erik.TheRed
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1655 Posts
September 03 2013 09:14 GMT
#55
On September 03 2013 18:01 spalding wrote:
I wonder what the TvP winrates would look like if you took away scv pulls, probably even worse. It's not just that protoss is clearly favoured in this matchup but what annoys me the most is that the engagements are so much harder for terran. Zealot+archon+hts is so ridiculously easy to control. You a move your zealots/archons, look for the biggest clump of terran units and just storm it. Get most of your army EMP'ed? np, use a defensive storm and retreat. Eat 2 big storms? Sorry, good game.


Care to share any off race replays with us?
"See you space cowboy"
spalding
Profile Joined August 2010
95 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-03 09:28:40
September 03 2013 09:28 GMT
#56
On September 03 2013 18:14 Erik.TheRed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2013 18:01 spalding wrote:
I wonder what the TvP winrates would look like if you took away scv pulls, probably even worse. It's not just that protoss is clearly favoured in this matchup but what annoys me the most is that the engagements are so much harder for terran. Zealot+archon+hts is so ridiculously easy to control. You a move your zealots/archons, look for the biggest clump of terran units and just storm it. Get most of your army EMP'ed? np, use a defensive storm and retreat. Eat 2 big storms? Sorry, good game.


Care to share any off race replays with us?

3000+ games with random
TeeTS
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany2762 Posts
September 03 2013 09:56 GMT
#57
Well I said it the day hellbat nerf was announced, that PvT will swing massively into favor of protoss and here we are. TvZ is a mess too. The only matchup that seems somehow working right now is PvZ. We have a lategame where both sides have options to win, we have several routes for both sides to get there and stable winratios around 50%.
The other 2 matchups are a huge clusterfuck. In TvZ both sides are forced into one and only one composition for basically the whole game and zerg suffers just way too much from widow mines and medivac speed. Ofc if you would take away only one of those puzzle pieces from terran, we would have a huge swing and terran would´ve a lot of trouble winning at all against Zerg.
I don´t see those issues solved by David Kim. Until he (and his team) is replaced, I don´t see a chance for a good solution. I would be more than happy if he could surprise me here.
Satiinifi
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland192 Posts
September 03 2013 10:03 GMT
#58
Well done blizzard, like always
Zarahtra
Profile Joined May 2010
Iceland4053 Posts
September 03 2013 10:09 GMT
#59
On September 03 2013 18:56 TeeTS wrote:
Well I said it the day hellbat nerf was announced, that PvT will swing massively into favor of protoss and here we are. TvZ is a mess too. The only matchup that seems somehow working right now is PvZ. We have a lategame where both sides have options to win, we have several routes for both sides to get there and stable winratios around 50%.
The other 2 matchups are a huge clusterfuck. In TvZ both sides are forced into one and only one composition for basically the whole game and zerg suffers just way too much from widow mines and medivac speed. Ofc if you would take away only one of those puzzle pieces from terran, we would have a huge swing and terran would´ve a lot of trouble winning at all against Zerg.
I don´t see those issues solved by David Kim. Until he (and his team) is replaced, I don´t see a chance for a good solution. I would be more than happy if he could surprise me here.

I'm a T so obviously I'm going to be biased, but personally I'm byfar more concerned for TvP rather than ZvT. I think there are plenty of buffs that Blizzard can implement for TvZ since it's such a specific problem imo of terran being able to pressure to hard and preventing Z from getting hive.

TvP is just a huge clusterfuck of mothership core(which is pretty vital in PvZ) allowing to much greed while T can't be greedy and lategame favours P. I just don't really see a fix to that issue except changes that effect PvZ hard too.
Satiinifi
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland192 Posts
September 03 2013 10:14 GMT
#60
I wonder what made them impliment MSC as it is to the game, any decent player who would have tested to play against it or play with it 10 games should have been able to tell easily, that its a totally rigged unit that does not belong to this game as it is.
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