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On September 03 2013 03:18 purakushi wrote:
Even if the game is one-dimensional (in terms of which unit compositions to have), if the units have high skillcaps (like in BW), things can still be very exciting. Not to mention battles last much longer, granting more time for the better player to out control/micro/multi-task their opponents.
Sadly, SC2 is not this.
Blizzard keeps throwing tons of money at the SC2 scene, and people wonder why it is not doing that great (in Korea). It is not the money, community, or even really the balance. The issue is with the game itself. If the game is fun to play and watch, players/viewers will come.
Sadly, SC2 is not this.
As I like to think of it, if a person/community is used to something better (BW), a forced switch into something inferior (SC2) is not going to last. Sure, you can all say that BW had many other factors that contributed to its success outside of it being an awesome game, but it still stands that despite all of the money thrown at the SC2 scene (in Korea), it is failing. Even if you consider its (anti) relationship with LoL and that it could be considered as "incomplete" (LotV), it is SC2 itself that is to blame.
/reminiscing of a better time.
The skillcap is actually way beyond what people currently do, the problem is to get to that requires a tremendous leap in unit control.
ie: Right now it is either control marines/medivacs and split and kite, OR control widow mines to get perfect hits. No terran alive is doing both (though Maru did a good job of at least unburrowing widow mines).
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EG, TL, and roots so need to read part 2 in regards with papa johns situation.
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On September 03 2013 04:03 Kuroeeah wrote:
I wonder if all the naysayers was right from the beginning with how Blizzard announced beforehand about how they were going to structure the whole thing to be set out as a trilogy.
"We know how to fix the Brood Lord/Infestor/Ling problem but unfortunately we can't actually resolve these specific issues until HOTS because it would involve changing the game design" or them basically having to hype up their next expansion feels like the SC2 development team is forced into reserving major game design changes or the implementation of good ideas that would change the game's infrastructure because of this whole trilogy structure they had set up for themselves. I mean really this quote was so off putting to me when I first heard it because it gives this impression that Blizzard has good ideas but for marketing/financial reasons is telling you to wait and pay money for the expansion to actually see them. Good ideas doesn't necessarily mean it has anything to do with game balance but rather we didn't see a major revamp of Battle.net 2.0 and the playable replay feature until HOTS was released.
If we see a similar quote from David, Browder or anyone that's on the higher up in the SC2 development team in regards to "Unfortunately you won't see a solution to X in this HotS, you're going to have to wait until LotV arrives" than it's only proving my point that the entire structure was a bad idea in the first place. Having to pay for SC2 isn't really an issue considering how many copies the original game sold but to a casual fan of e-sports, they can explore other alternatives such as DotA 2 or LoL in terms of games that are considered competitive and isn't forced to pay a dime to see major changes or revisions to either games. In fact it's rather sad that so many faces of the SC2 community such as Nazgul or Mr.Chae recently been interviewed can only speak to how Valve's approach towards managing their e-sports scene is seemingly so far ahead of Blizzard's. I don't want to be ignorant, I know the hard workers at Blizzard obviously cares about their own game and everyone should know they're fully aware of the comparisons made even having Blizzard employee's bluntly being asked why it's not more like it's competitors but you really ought to wonder what's going on in a company that used to be universally beloved by everyone.
Times change and I'm pretty sure the Blizzard staff responsible for SC2 isn't the same group of people who worked on SC1/WC2/WC3/D2. Browder was brought in for SC2 and previously he had worked on CnC Generals and Battle for Middle Earth, 2 pretty lackluster RTS titles. Blizzard is undoubtedly more occupied with meeting shareholder expectations and the bottom line than they are with game quality. It's painfully obvious in all their recent releases but at the same time it's expected. The gaming industry has really taken off in the past decade and bigger companies and stiffer competition leads to more emphasis on the funds and profits. Maybe I'm just nostalgic and looking through rose tinted glasses, but I feel as though currently Blizzard is just riding on the merits of it's old titles and relatively sharp marketing to compensate for a serious lack of game development talent.
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No BW unit or selection group limit will bring the viewercount up unless they make the some part of the core game addictively fun for casuals.
SC2 has insane viewer/player ratio, 160k players in ranked after the ladder reset last week and still bringing in 100k concurrents monhtly - so the spectator part is quite fine ( obviously could be better )
IMHO what sc2 needs most is dropping the hardon on balancing everything around competitive 1vs1, and creating fun maps for casual 4vs4 or whatever where the stats, costs, and build times are not exactly the same as in the pro 1vs1, but balanced around casual gameplay - and putting such maps under a big "find a cool XvsX starcraft match" button - so people dont have to put in effort finding such maps in arcade.
that said, more varied progames, improvements on tournament structures, improvements on social features etc never hurt - but the single greatest need is to make everyone push a "find match" button over and over again.
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" n TvZ, Terran uses marines, maurauders, medivacs, and widow mines against ANY zerg compositions. "
Dat news.
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Yeah, MC doesn't really know what he's talking about with regards to TvZ.
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" In TvZ, Terran uses marines, maurauders, medivacs, and widow mines against ANY zerg compositions. "
Dat news.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 03 2013 04:32 AhhBoxxah wrote:
Yeah, MC doesn't really know what he's talking about with regards to TvZ.
Where exactly? There are some exaggerations, yes, but his point is pretty clear.
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On September 03 2013 04:32 AhhBoxxah wrote:
Yeah, MC doesn't really know what he's talking about with regards to TvZ.
he actually described the situation perfectly. would you like to try to defend yourself here or just cut your losses and be done..?
I really liked what he had to say about the state of declining popularity. I dont have *any* faith in the developers to realize that a huge overhaul is probably needed to address some of the fundamental problems that this game has. Crossing my fingers but not holding my breath.
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On September 03 2013 03:20 Nibbler89 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2013 02:37 Dingodile wrote:On September 03 2013 02:22 vNmMasterT wrote:
Personally I think MC is just trying to divert the attention on PvT away to TvZ. Obviously he knows P is currently the strongest race right now. This drivel he is spilling regarding TvZ just makes him look bad. Just look at some of his statements:
"Terrans are basically immune to the roach attacks"
"Terrans don’t even need to scout."
"They don’t care if they lose it [medivac drops] because it’s not risky at all"
"Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units."
"They lose the game if they make one micro mistake and lose all their banelings to widow mines."
what the fuck!? The whole balance portion of the post is not worthy of a progamer and is actually shameful. He's only getting away with this since he's won a lot of money in SC2. All the while he is keeping his mouth shut about all the protoss issues. MC is true. If I play T, I usually never scout Z before 8:30 and here only to see if he has 3rd. Then I play standard 4M I dont care with which comp he comes, everything is welcome. 4M is too cost-effiency so that drops aren't risky. Not even funny if you build upon 25-35supply all 30sec. Obviously T is the strongest race, TvZ has bigger problems than TvP and PvZ. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=427796The anti terran bias on TL of so many people is insane.
What you linked, just shows that TvZ is a problematic matchup right now.
It needs balance changes
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Actually I know this is a little off topic but, if anyone has ever played that SC2 : BW map, I think that would be a much better game than SC2 to be honest, it is more fun and seems more balanced even lol, would be great if that got a little more mainstream and would maybe add a little more excitement into the game....
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Man MC is a boss. I am sad to say I never knew he was such an intelligent and thoughtful human being and he comes across as genuine and passionate. Awesome post and thanks for the translation Terry!
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On September 03 2013 04:32 AhhBoxxah wrote:
Yeah, MC doesn't really know what he's talking about with regards to TvZ.
Erm, no... he just has plays as a zerg that is korean GM level.
Day9 is clueless, I mean he barely even plays the game... right? And Artosis knows nothing about Z or T.
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On September 03 2013 04:38 synd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2013 03:20 Nibbler89 wrote:On September 03 2013 02:37 Dingodile wrote:On September 03 2013 02:22 vNmMasterT wrote:
Personally I think MC is just trying to divert the attention on PvT away to TvZ. Obviously he knows P is currently the strongest race right now. This drivel he is spilling regarding TvZ just makes him look bad. Just look at some of his statements:
"Terrans are basically immune to the roach attacks"
"Terrans don’t even need to scout."
"They don’t care if they lose it [medivac drops] because it’s not risky at all"
"Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units."
"They lose the game if they make one micro mistake and lose all their banelings to widow mines."
what the fuck!? The whole balance portion of the post is not worthy of a progamer and is actually shameful. He's only getting away with this since he's won a lot of money in SC2. All the while he is keeping his mouth shut about all the protoss issues. MC is true. If I play T, I usually never scout Z before 8:30 and here only to see if he has 3rd. Then I play standard 4M I dont care with which comp he comes, everything is welcome. 4M is too cost-effiency so that drops aren't risky. Not even funny if you build upon 25-35supply all 30sec. Obviously T is the strongest race, TvZ has bigger problems than TvP and PvZ. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=427796The anti terran bias on TL of so many people is insane. What you linked, just shows that TvZ is a problematic matchup right now. It needs balance changes
But Terran has problems elsewhere, so let's buff Z instead of nerfing Terran.
Zerg players need to stop whining about window mines and bio, that stuff is here and isn't going anywhere.
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On September 03 2013 04:49 Noocta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2013 04:38 synd wrote:On September 03 2013 03:20 Nibbler89 wrote:On September 03 2013 02:37 Dingodile wrote:On September 03 2013 02:22 vNmMasterT wrote:
Personally I think MC is just trying to divert the attention on PvT away to TvZ. Obviously he knows P is currently the strongest race right now. This drivel he is spilling regarding TvZ just makes him look bad. Just look at some of his statements:
"Terrans are basically immune to the roach attacks"
"Terrans don’t even need to scout."
"They don’t care if they lose it [medivac drops] because it’s not risky at all"
"Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units."
"They lose the game if they make one micro mistake and lose all their banelings to widow mines."
what the fuck!? The whole balance portion of the post is not worthy of a progamer and is actually shameful. He's only getting away with this since he's won a lot of money in SC2. All the while he is keeping his mouth shut about all the protoss issues. MC is true. If I play T, I usually never scout Z before 8:30 and here only to see if he has 3rd. Then I play standard 4M I dont care with which comp he comes, everything is welcome. 4M is too cost-effiency so that drops aren't risky. Not even funny if you build upon 25-35supply all 30sec. Obviously T is the strongest race, TvZ has bigger problems than TvP and PvZ. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=427796The anti terran bias on TL of so many people is insane. What you linked, just shows that TvZ is a problematic matchup right now. It needs balance changes But Terran has problems elsewhere, so let's buff Z instead of nerfing Terran. Zerg players need to stop whining about window mines and bio, that stuff is here and isn't going anywhere.
hey as long as zvt gets addressed we zergs don't care what blizzard does if it's a buff that is actually good awesome, if it's a nerf to terran fine. Either way I don't think we zergs will care as long as it gets addressed at some point as it's been a problem almost since hots release now.
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This guy talks shit whenever you see him at a tournament :D but deep inside of MC there is a really really smart guy. probs to him for this great blog!
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On September 03 2013 03:44 trifecta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2013 03:37 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 03 2013 03:36 Xiphos wrote:
BW was GROUNDBREAKING as an expo as they revamped many features that revolutionized the gameplay and such.
As someone who never caught original SC and BW, care to tell me all of 'em? most important additions: lurker, medic, dark templar, corsair
So pretending that the SC1 editor could add those units, BW added nothing else besides a story. What's groundbreaking here, except that those were really good units?
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On September 03 2013 05:00 Ansinjunger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2013 03:44 trifecta wrote:On September 03 2013 03:37 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 03 2013 03:36 Xiphos wrote:
BW was GROUNDBREAKING as an expo as they revamped many features that revolutionized the gameplay and such.
As someone who never caught original SC and BW, care to tell me all of 'em? most important additions: lurker, medic, dark templar, corsair So pretending that the SC1 editor could add those units, BW added nothing else besides a story. What's groundbreaking here, except that those were really good units?
Well SC1 had boring units, and BW provided much more interesting ones.
WoL had okay units and then HotS added more okay units.
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OK, the one thing I will say is that the new Terran composition has encouraged ZvT to move towards a game of constant trading. The balance might be tipped a bit too much in Terran's favor at the moment, but they've got the right idea. Anything which encourages constant aggression (which we do see a lot right now) instead of sitting back (which people also have a tendency to overstate) is a good thing.
There's a major difference between TvT and TvZ. Lack of the siege tank. This means that to some extent Terran armies can trade against each other which is why TvT is so fucking awesome right now. The widow mine is the missing piece IMO.
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EPT
