|
On September 03 2013 04:30 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2013 04:03 Kuroeeah wrote:
I wonder if all the naysayers was right from the beginning with how Blizzard announced beforehand about how they were going to structure the whole thing to be set out as a trilogy.
"We know how to fix the Brood Lord/Infestor/Ling problem but unfortunately we can't actually resolve these specific issues until HOTS because it would involve changing the game design" or them basically having to hype up their next expansion feels like the SC2 development team is forced into reserving major game design changes or the implementation of good ideas that would change the game's infrastructure because of this whole trilogy structure they had set up for themselves. I mean really this quote was so off putting to me when I first heard it because it gives this impression that Blizzard has good ideas but for marketing/financial reasons is telling you to wait and pay money for the expansion to actually see them. Good ideas doesn't necessarily mean it has anything to do with game balance but rather we didn't see a major revamp of Battle.net 2.0 and the playable replay feature until HOTS was released.
If we see a similar quote from David, Browder or anyone that's on the higher up in the SC2 development team in regards to "Unfortunately you won't see a solution to X in this HotS, you're going to have to wait until LotV arrives" than it's only proving my point that the entire structure was a bad idea in the first place. Having to pay for SC2 isn't really an issue considering how many copies the original game sold but to a casual fan of e-sports, they can explore other alternatives such as DotA 2 or LoL in terms of games that are considered competitive and isn't forced to pay a dime to see major changes or revisions to either games. In fact it's rather sad that so many faces of the SC2 community such as Nazgul or Mr.Chae recently been interviewed can only speak to how Valve's approach towards managing their e-sports scene is seemingly so far ahead of Blizzard's. I don't want to be ignorant, I know the hard workers at Blizzard obviously cares about their own game and everyone should know they're fully aware of the comparisons made even having Blizzard employee's bluntly being asked why it's not more like it's competitors but you really ought to wonder what's going on in a company that used to be universally beloved by everyone. Times change and I'm pretty sure the Blizzard staff responsible for SC2 isn't the same group of people who worked on SC1/WC2/WC3/D2. Browder was brought in for SC2 and previously he had worked on CnC Generals and Battle for Middle Earth, 2 pretty lackluster RTS titles. Blizzard is undoubtedly more occupied with meeting shareholder expectations and the bottom line than they are with game quality. It's painfully obvious in all their recent releases but at the same time it's expected. The gaming industry has really taken off in the past decade and bigger companies and stiffer competition leads to more emphasis on the funds and profits. Maybe I'm just nostalgic and looking through rose tinted glasses, but I feel as though currently Blizzard is just riding on the merits of it's old titles and relatively sharp marketing to compensate for a serious lack of game development talent.
they are still talented man . is just that they dont work for the same games . i read some interviews saying the MOST tallented ppl on blizzard work on Titan & on Blizzard AllStars .
|
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 03 2013 05:04 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2013 05:00 Ansinjunger wrote:On September 03 2013 03:44 trifecta wrote:On September 03 2013 03:37 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 03 2013 03:36 Xiphos wrote:
BW was GROUNDBREAKING as an expo as they revamped many features that revolutionized the gameplay and such.
As someone who never caught original SC and BW, care to tell me all of 'em? most important additions: lurker, medic, dark templar, corsair So pretending that the SC1 editor could add those units, BW added nothing else besides a story. What's groundbreaking here, except that those were really good units? Well SC1 had boring units, and BW provided much more interesting ones. WoL had okay units and then HotS added more okay units.
Only thing i see is the new units, where are groundbreaking changes :D? Ofc it is true that DT-Corsair became the new standard and so were lurker and medic.
|
The groundbreaking changes to competitive play IMO were Patch 1.08, not Brood War.
|
On September 03 2013 05:07 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2013 05:04 Xiphos wrote:On September 03 2013 05:00 Ansinjunger wrote:On September 03 2013 03:44 trifecta wrote:On September 03 2013 03:37 lolfail9001 wrote:On September 03 2013 03:36 Xiphos wrote:
BW was GROUNDBREAKING as an expo as they revamped many features that revolutionized the gameplay and such.
As someone who never caught original SC and BW, care to tell me all of 'em? most important additions: lurker, medic, dark templar, corsair So pretending that the SC1 editor could add those units, BW added nothing else besides a story. What's groundbreaking here, except that those were really good units? Well SC1 had boring units, and BW provided much more interesting ones. WoL had okay units and then HotS added more okay units. Only thing i see is the new units, where are groundbreaking changes :D? Ofc it is true that DT-Corsair became the new standard and so were lurker and medic.
Well BW units have improve on the one-dimensional-ness of its predecessor while complimenting the interaction between the units and completely new combination and rendered the gameplay much more dynamic and interesting strategies was developed.
HotS failed to do so with their units. At pro level, very small chance of a HotS units even being used with the exception of Widow Mines, everything else was just obsolete and downright unintuitive. The core gameplay very much resemble to WoL's without any significant changes.
|
On September 02 2013 21:50 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 21:43 Vanadiel wrote:On September 02 2013 20:28 TheDwf wrote:On September 02 2013 20:20 Vanadiel wrote:
He can probably play terran in offracen better than you'll ever do and understand SC2 better than anyone her, the fact that he talk about a match up he doesn't play in pro match means he is unbiased on this subject. "Terrans are basically immune to the roach attacks" "Terrans don’t even need to scout." "This allows Terrans to just send their boosted medivacs to harass. They don’t care if they lose it because it’s not risky at all" "Ultralisks -> meal for marauders, broodlords -> meal for vikings." So knowledgeable, so unbiased. Yet, all more or less true. But hey, it's only the most successful sc2 progammer, which lives and practice with terran likes MVP, he sure doesn't understand Terran match up and should learn from the teamliquid forum. All of those quotes are painfully simplistic or simply flat out wrong; but hey, since it's MC talking it must be the absolute truth and we should all kneel before him!
Did you consider the posibillity that you are the one who is wrong?
|
On September 03 2013 03:12 Elite_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2013 02:53 Doodsmack wrote:
You can make SC2 as close to BW as you want, you can make Blizzard make all the changes we as a community want, but it still won't revive it as an esport. That's because people aren't paying attention to the game in the first place, because they're not playing it, because 1) it's an RTS and 2) you have to pay to play. You think people want to play stressful 1v1s where the mechanics feels like a chore to play, when there is now a free alternative where you can chill with your friends (moba)? No.
/thread This is about StarCraft II as an eSport, not as a game. It's about the entertainment value of watching the game be played by professionals, not getting more people to play.
What I'm getting at is you need players before you have spectators.
It's silly to argue over the metagame and 4M and deathballs when there's a far more fundamental issue at work. People aren't playing the game (and therefore watching the game) in the first place because a pay-for-play mechanics-based RTS will only garner a relatively small hardcore following. If you think making the metagame more interesting and varied is going to revive SC2 as an esport, you're simply mistaken. MOBAs offer a more casual and team-based, and arguably more fun, alternative. And they're free. You simply can't beat that, and it takes potential viewers and players away from SC2.
|
Awesome post. Second section when he talks about being a progamer should be read by all aspiring progamers, regardless of game they're playing.
|
However, what about the Heart of the Swarm? Terrans are basically immune to the roach attacks, So Zergs are forced play a macro game centered on lings. The most similar composition to mutalisk-lurker composition in BW is mutalisk-infestor. However, infestors are now too weak as a midgame unit in TvZ. So Zergs are forced to choose mutalisks lings and banelings,
Terrans don’t even need to scout. They all know it’s going to be mutalisks lings and banelings. This allows Terrans to just send their boosted medivacs to harass. They don’t care if they lose it because it’s not risky at all. Zergs are forced to position their units to deal with the harassments from the medivacs which allows Terrans to gain a favorable position at the front which allows for a cost effective trade.
How was it SCI? There was an opportunity cost involved in making a dropship, which was the time spent on making science vessel. Also, it was very risky because dropships were shot down by 2 scourages. So, dropships did more damage when they were successful and fans were more appreciative and excited by the dropship plays.
Furthermore, let’s say Zergs defends and defends and is finally allowed to tech to Hive. What units can they make? Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units. Ultralisks? Build more maurauders. Broodlords? Build more vikings.
However, if Zergs are able to get infestors and broodlords or ’luxurious composition’ (MC’s exact words), then they are able to trade more evenly with the Terran. But we don’t see those kinds of games a lot, why is that? Gosu Terrans tend to force engagements early with their low tech units to have consistent efficient trades before Zergs get their Hive compositions. It’s a really frustrating situation for Zerg progamers. They lose the game if they make one micro mistake and lose all their banelings to widow mines.
hes an idiot plz stick talking about protoss vs x cuz clearly he 0 clue about tvz match up
|
|
|
On September 03 2013 05:41 MajOr wrote:
hes an idiot plz stick talking about protoss vs x cuz clearly he 0 clue about tvz match up
I hear that MC is pretty sick with his off-races too 
|
On September 03 2013 05:46 Entirety wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2013 05:41 MajOr wrote:
hes an idiot plz stick talking about protoss vs x cuz clearly he 0 clue about tvz match up I hear that MC is pretty sick with his off-races too
so it dosent matter any terran with some clue how to play this game reads that and knows its plain out wrong
|
On September 03 2013 05:48 MajOr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2013 05:46 Entirety wrote:On September 03 2013 05:41 MajOr wrote:
hes an idiot plz stick talking about protoss vs x cuz clearly he 0 clue about tvz match up I hear that MC is pretty sick with his off-races too so it dosent matter any terran with some clue how to play this game reads that and knows its plain out wrong
Juan knows.
On September 03 2013 04:43 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Day9 is clueless, I mean he barely even plays the game... right? And Artosis knows nothing about Z or T.
Really? That's kind of harsh.
|
On September 03 2013 05:48 MajOr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2013 05:46 Entirety wrote:On September 03 2013 05:41 MajOr wrote:
hes an idiot plz stick talking about protoss vs x cuz clearly he 0 clue about tvz match up I hear that MC is pretty sick with his off-races too so it dosent matter any terran with some clue how to play this game reads that and knows its plain out wrong
Not that I'm siding with MC, but could you explain what's wrong with what he's saying beyond "he has no clue"? Besides like 5% of the games of ZvT I've played where a daring player went mech (I salute you) every single game was the T player going Marine/Marauder/Mine/Medivac and MC backed up his argument quite well. I'm interested to learn different views on the matter.
|
On September 03 2013 05:57 Neemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2013 05:48 MajOr wrote:On September 03 2013 05:46 Entirety wrote:On September 03 2013 05:41 MajOr wrote:
hes an idiot plz stick talking about protoss vs x cuz clearly he 0 clue about tvz match up I hear that MC is pretty sick with his off-races too so it dosent matter any terran with some clue how to play this game reads that and knows its plain out wrong Not that I'm siding with MC, but could you explain what's wrong with what he's saying beyond "he has no clue"? Besides like 5% of the games of ZvT I've played where a daring player went mech (I salute you) every single game was the T player going Marine/Marauder/Mine/Medivac and MC backed up his argument quite well. I'm interested to learn different views on the matter.
Terrans are basically immune to the roach attacks, ?? and than he says terran dont need to scout xD ok gl playing vs roach bane ifu dont scout
|
Bosnia-Herzegovina261 Posts
On September 03 2013 05:58 MajOr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2013 05:57 Neemi wrote:On September 03 2013 05:48 MajOr wrote:On September 03 2013 05:46 Entirety wrote:On September 03 2013 05:41 MajOr wrote:
hes an idiot plz stick talking about protoss vs x cuz clearly he 0 clue about tvz match up I hear that MC is pretty sick with his off-races too so it dosent matter any terran with some clue how to play this game reads that and knows its plain out wrong Not that I'm siding with MC, but could you explain what's wrong with what he's saying beyond "he has no clue"? Besides like 5% of the games of ZvT I've played where a daring player went mech (I salute you) every single game was the T player going Marine/Marauder/Mine/Medivac and MC backed up his argument quite well. I'm interested to learn different views on the matter. Terrans are basically immune to the roach attacks, ?? and than he says terran dont need to scout xD ok gl playing vs roach bane ifu dont scout
First of all, you're toxic and ignorant.
Second of all, what you are talking about is ling/bling/roach allin, which, if not scouted, should punish the greedy Terran (as 90% of Terrans go fast 3CC).
Third of all, Roach/Bling composition would never work unless Terran lost his Marauder hotkey.
And last, but not the least, he's talking about actual aggression, if you see a bunch of Roaches, you make a Siege Tank, or two, or three, yes, right there, Terran is immune to all ground aggression Zerg can throw at him, unless he is going for a big bust, but even then, Siege Tanks on high-ground can ruin your day.
|
On September 03 2013 05:58 MajOr wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2013 05:57 Neemi wrote:On September 03 2013 05:48 MajOr wrote:On September 03 2013 05:46 Entirety wrote:On September 03 2013 05:41 MajOr wrote:
hes an idiot plz stick talking about protoss vs x cuz clearly he 0 clue about tvz match up I hear that MC is pretty sick with his off-races too so it dosent matter any terran with some clue how to play this game reads that and knows its plain out wrong Not that I'm siding with MC, but could you explain what's wrong with what he's saying beyond "he has no clue"? Besides like 5% of the games of ZvT I've played where a daring player went mech (I salute you) every single game was the T player going Marine/Marauder/Mine/Medivac and MC backed up his argument quite well. I'm interested to learn different views on the matter. Terrans are basically immune to the roach attacks, ?? and than he says terran dont need to scout xD ok gl playing vs roach bane ifu dont scout
Major has a point there, that statement from MC was wrong.
|
Over 3 years and TvP is still poor to watch and play.
The entire concept is nonsense: one race gets all the AOEs, other race gets single target pickoff. There's no way this concept can be stable - too little or too much tech unit sniped = massive combat swings. If P loses his tech units mid game, he's done. If T faces too much AOE, and can't get rid of enough tech units, T gets stomped.
It needs to be sufficient output on both sides, instead of one side only getting units that are good for killing tech units.
|
On September 03 2013 06:06 ysnake wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2013 05:58 MajOr wrote:On September 03 2013 05:57 Neemi wrote:On September 03 2013 05:48 MajOr wrote:On September 03 2013 05:46 Entirety wrote:On September 03 2013 05:41 MajOr wrote:
hes an idiot plz stick talking about protoss vs x cuz clearly he 0 clue about tvz match up I hear that MC is pretty sick with his off-races too so it dosent matter any terran with some clue how to play this game reads that and knows its plain out wrong Not that I'm siding with MC, but could you explain what's wrong with what he's saying beyond "he has no clue"? Besides like 5% of the games of ZvT I've played where a daring player went mech (I salute you) every single game was the T player going Marine/Marauder/Mine/Medivac and MC backed up his argument quite well. I'm interested to learn different views on the matter. Terrans are basically immune to the roach attacks, ?? and than he says terran dont need to scout xD ok gl playing vs roach bane ifu dont scout First of all, you're toxic and ignorant. Second of all, what you are talking about is ling/bling/roach allin, which, if not scouted, should punish the greedy Terran (as 90% of Terrans go fast 3CC). Third of all, Roach/Bling composition would never work unless Terran lost his Marauder hotkey. And last, but not the least, he's talking about actual aggression, if you see a bunch of Roaches, you make a Siege Tank, or two, or three, yes, right there, Terran is immune to all ground aggression Zerg can throw at him, unless he is going for a big bust, but even then, Siege Tanks on high-ground can ruin your day.
 are u gold?
|
On September 03 2013 06:06 ysnake wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2013 05:58 MajOr wrote:On September 03 2013 05:57 Neemi wrote:On September 03 2013 05:48 MajOr wrote:On September 03 2013 05:46 Entirety wrote:On September 03 2013 05:41 MajOr wrote:
hes an idiot plz stick talking about protoss vs x cuz clearly he 0 clue about tvz match up I hear that MC is pretty sick with his off-races too so it dosent matter any terran with some clue how to play this game reads that and knows its plain out wrong Not that I'm siding with MC, but could you explain what's wrong with what he's saying beyond "he has no clue"? Besides like 5% of the games of ZvT I've played where a daring player went mech (I salute you) every single game was the T player going Marine/Marauder/Mine/Medivac and MC backed up his argument quite well. I'm interested to learn different views on the matter. Terrans are basically immune to the roach attacks, ?? and than he says terran dont need to scout xD ok gl playing vs roach bane ifu dont scout First of all, you're toxic and ignorant. Second of all, what you are talking about is ling/bling/roach allin, which, if not scouted, should punish the greedy Terran (as 90% of Terrans go fast 3CC). Third of all, Roach/Bling composition would never work unless Terran lost his Marauder hotkey. And last, but not the least, he's talking about actual aggression, if you see a bunch of Roaches, you make a Siege Tank, or two, or three, yes, right there, Terran is immune to all ground aggression Zerg can throw at him, unless he is going for a big bust, but even then, Siege Tanks on high-ground can ruin your day.
Always fun to see random forum posters explain to pro-gamers how to play starcraft.
|
On September 03 2013 05:18 NukeD wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 21:50 TheDwf wrote:On September 02 2013 21:43 Vanadiel wrote:On September 02 2013 20:28 TheDwf wrote:On September 02 2013 20:20 Vanadiel wrote:
He can probably play terran in offracen better than you'll ever do and understand SC2 better than anyone her, the fact that he talk about a match up he doesn't play in pro match means he is unbiased on this subject. "Terrans are basically immune to the roach attacks" "Terrans don’t even need to scout." "This allows Terrans to just send their boosted medivacs to harass. They don’t care if they lose it because it’s not risky at all" "Ultralisks -> meal for marauders, broodlords -> meal for vikings." So knowledgeable, so unbiased. Yet, all more or less true. But hey, it's only the most successful sc2 progammer, which lives and practice with terran likes MVP, he sure doesn't understand Terran match up and should learn from the teamliquid forum. All of those quotes are painfully simplistic or simply flat out wrong; but hey, since it's MC talking it must be the absolute truth and we should all kneel before him! Did you consider the posibillity that you are the one who is wrong?
Nope, because there is countless evidence in pro games that his statements are wrong. Claiming that Terrans are "basically immune to the roach attacks" is particularly laughable considering even EU Zergs can still beat much better Korean Terrans with various cheap Roaches attacks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
