EPTSK MC's thoughts on the current state of SC2 - Page 10
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agsub
Singapore368 Posts
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herMan
Japan2057 Posts
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ZionsWrath
United States121 Posts
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M.R. McThundercrotch
United States265 Posts
On September 02 2013 13:55 Xiphos wrote: Honestly, I don't really think Blizzard really care about SC2 anymore... I wish this were true, because the sooner Blizzard abandons SC2, the sooner KeSPA can take over balancing the game. Imagine a balance committee of Boxer, JangBi and Nestea. Or in ~5 years, Flash, Jaedong, Bisu and Stork. Or do a six man group: Flash and MVP, Jaedong and Nestea, Bisu and MC. Just get actual retired progamers who really know StarCraft and can take the best from Brood War and SC2 and make a StarCraft based on real professional knowledge and experience and not too hung up on hubris and mass marketing. I hope that LotV comes out soon and Blizzard immediately shuts down their StarCraft design team. They will just never understand StarCraft on the same level as guys who have actually lived it the way the top pros have. Or even Artosis, Tasteless and Day9. Those three would make a better three-race balance panel than what Blizzard has now. I really don't understand the decision to not hire a single(?) professional StarCraft player on their design team. Doesn't that just seem like a no brainer? I don't mean it to sound so harsh - I actually think the Kim and Browder have done a decent job, considering their background, and have actually brought in some fantastic ideas (new Creep mechanics: my word I love you) - but the sooner Blizzard gets out of the way, the sooner StarCraft can be put back in the hands of the people who made it great in the first place. | ||
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Glenn313
United States475 Posts
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igay
Australia1178 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
On September 02 2013 15:20 igay wrote: And that's why he will always be president toss Is this the President Protoss's State of the Union address? | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13472 Posts
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Sprouter
United States1724 Posts
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SaikOuLighT
Canada742 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
I don’t think the overseer patch was bad, But I doubt that the overseer patch will change the current TvZ metagame. I loved TvZ in WoL, but now? I really don’t like it. It’s always the same. There’s always a point where I think Zerg is going to win, but due to sheer number of marines and widow mines, and Zerg makes one major mistake and just ends up losing the game in the end. A simple game where the decisiveness in game lies in whether the Terran is going to get 3/3 upgrade or not. I actually think PvZ is more entertaining. There are variety of choices such as roach/hydra/viper, or mutalisks after hydra/ling pressure. Choices in PvZ is just as diverse as it was in BW. It’s so different from the roach/hydra or muta choices in WoL. Fundamentally, I think TvZ is the most entertaining match up to watch in Starcraft, whether it be I or II. I hope the balance team really acknowledges as soon as possible and gives variety to the match up It's so sad that you are not allowed to say that TvZ is worse than in WoL these days as Zerg player. Yes, it was imbalanced. But it was also much more fun because you know: Tanks, Thors, Infestors, Broodlords... You know something is wrong if an expansion that introduces MORE units leads to LESS Variety. I miss watching Infestor harass so much  | ||
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Glioburd
France1911 Posts
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unifo
Canada65 Posts
He brings up the biggest issue of SC2, and the fact about the current strategies has more or less have stagnated to some sort of "norm", and that there is a best build for everything. It might be suggestive of problematic issues with the philosophy of game design with SC2, especially with super hard counters to specific units. I'm not saying SC2 is terrible my all means, but maybe a change in philosophy of balancing might be needed...... rather than just through statistics of maintaining 50/50 win rates in all races. | ||
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BillGates
471 Posts
I think Colossus should be nerfed significantly and zealots and stalkers buffed. | ||
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Myrddraal
Australia937 Posts
On September 02 2013 13:55 Xiphos wrote: Honestly, I don't really think Blizzard really care about SC2 anymore as they ain't making money from it anymore. Yes they still have LotV to come out but jusdging from the looks of it, HotS is just WoL with newly designed unit from the Editor and shuffled the balance stats there and there, work that can be done under a week by an above average programmer (But gotta admit that the cinematic were awe-inspiring). So for LotV, all they need is a minuscule task force that get paid for couple of thousands but in end, the game will still be a able to sell decently. Any surplus work the do is just more money they are losing. I hope they prove that statement wrong though but I wouldn't bet on it. This is kind of how it seems to me, I feel like with HotS they had the opportunity to make some more drastic changes and bring more variety to the game, but it wasn't quite enough to get me fully interested in playing again or watching full time. To be honest I think I would find the game more interesting if they added all the campaign units to the game and let the pros work out the balance (toning down anything that was particularly broken). It may not be a popular opinion, but I think just having a larger variety of possible compositions and different ways to deal with certain things would make things more interesting though I think it would work best if "Terrible Terrible Damage" was toned down such that there were more benefits to having a mixed composition and individual unit micro played a bigger part in larger battles. This is getting a bit out there, but maybe even an enforced limit of the number of each unit that can be produced would be beneficial so varied compositions is a must. The main thing though, which I feel is most in line with your post, is that I just wish Blizzard would at least try some more interesting solutions so it felt like they were putting in more effort. At first they mostly seemed afraid to make significant changes, but lately it does just feel like a lack of care. I mean, they make Test Maps for players to test new changes, but the changes in those maps are usually pretty minor and uninteresting, why not try out some more significant changes to spice things up. One final idea that could potentially make the game more interesting, yet preserve what we already have, would be to introduce the possibility of different "versions" being simultaneously available. This way you could make changes that drastically affect the whole game and matchups, without negatively affecting matchmaking or tournaments and whichever version became most popular could become the standard. I don't really want to discuss the merits or flaws of my rambling suggestions, all I really want to say as that to get me interested in the game again, something significant would have to be done to provide additional variety. Edit: I should add that I understand that what made starcraft stand out initially was the fact that the races were so different yet it was still so balanced, and adding extra units or shaking things up too much could really disrupt this, but the fact is that I just don't find the game as interesting as I used to, and I don't think minor changes would be enough for me. | ||
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VManOfMana
United States764 Posts
On September 02 2013 14:43 NoGasfOu wrote: I've mentioned before, but if you understand Kespa's policy and way of maintaining a superstar and raise the value of their 'products' vs that of being a personality or superstar in a foreigner way. If you understand the results of these different ways of creating and maintaining fan base, you will know what I mean. You have two choices: Being a star in the foreigner way or being a star in the Kespa way. You can analyze the popularity, the professionalism, the benefits of each of two sides just by looking at past results for yourself. What benefits the particular players more, and what benefits the scene more? The only difference of the "Kespa way" compared to the "foreigner way" is that you are not the target market. Thus, as a foreigner, they are not going to pander to you. KeSPA and the teams have long done fan-oriented activities, so its not like Flash and the other KeSPA stars are some unreachable idol. The idea that Flash has no personality just because he doesn't speak English is just ludicrous. There's enough of interviews and footage that show Flash has more of a personality of his own. It's just not on your language. Credit is due to MC for taking the effort of connecting to the foreign audience. However, it is not a measurement of having a personality. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2781 Posts
On September 02 2013 15:40 unifo wrote: I thoroughly enjoyed reading what MC had to say about this game, especially with regards to the current state of SC2, thoughts about being a pro-gamer, and comparing it to other games. He brings up the biggest issue of SC2, and the fact about the current strategies has more or less have stagnated to some sort of "norm", and that there is a best build for everything. It might be suggestive of problematic issues with the philosophy of game design with SC2, especially with super hard counters to specific units. I'm not saying SC2 is terrible my all means, but maybe a change in philosophy of balancing might be needed...... rather than just through statistics of maintaining 50/50 win rates in all races. To me the issue has never been one of "build" stagnation...I think a lot of people confuse unit combinations with DEPTH. If the developers focused on providing the goto unit combination (which will always occur as it is the most logical way to play the MU) with as much DEPTH and UTILITY as possible there would never be any complaints about lack of unit combiations. It's just that unit interactions, are for the most part, quite one dimensional. HOTS played a large part in causing this. That's why when people look back at mid 2011 they see it as being the grand age of ZvT, because the unit comps, while largely the same and in fact even more lean than now, had so much more DEPTH OF USE to them that it felt like both players could express their skills to the best of their abilities - even though they were using the same composition as everyone else. If you're going to throw a BW example (people in here that are throwing it around) - then be real. BW largely had the same overall gameflow in all 3 MUs. What it had was DEPTH. A fuckton of it. So much so that different players could develop entirely different signatures with the same sets of units. I do recall Day9 talking about this concept extensively. | ||
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DJHelium
Sweden13480 Posts
On September 02 2013 15:08 papaz wrote: Rofl. Just because MC doesn't play T or Z in tournaments doesn't mean: A) He has no clue B) He doesn't off race. He i probably is pretty high in KR league in T/Z. Way higher than most posters here making comment on balance and game design. I'd say his pro status and GSL titles gives him the right to say something about all races in SC2. He even practiced with TheSTC playing as zerg! MC said on twitter that you practised against his Zerg It's true. MC's Zerg is very strong. Other Terran players lose to MC's Zerg frequently. We practised a lot and my win rate was about half. He told me to beat DRG no matter what. Source: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=324678 | ||
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ImperialFist
790 Posts
Terran isn't winning any games now anyway outside of 5-6 korean terrans and they will do good even without mines because God-Mode. The few remaining pro-foreign Terrans should just switch race and get it over with. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On September 02 2013 15:52 ImperialFist wrote: Yeah lets remove the mines. Terran isn't winning any games now anyway outside of 5-6 korean terrans and they will do good even without mines because God-Mode. The few remaining pro-foreign Terrans should just switch race and get it over with. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments There hasn't been a single non korean to win a premier tournament since hots was released. There have been 9 terran wins, 5 zerg wins, and 3 protoss wins. Interestingly enough, out of the 9 terran wins, 8 of them went to someone different. Polt is as always the exception, doubling up in premier tournaments, and winning despite being a full time student. Jaedong also appears the most amount of times with 4 second place finishes. | ||
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