EPTOh good eye, can't believe I missed that
SK MC's thoughts on the current state of SC2 - Page 12
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
Oh good eye, can't believe I missed that | ||
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theking1
Romania658 Posts
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jarod
Romania766 Posts
Thanks for the translation. | ||
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CrazyF1r3f0x
United States2120 Posts
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mongoose22
174 Posts
As for the game balance itself, I do think something needs to be done about the widow mine. Its prevalence and power is one of the primary reasons for the lack of mech, when the mines can fill so many roles: AoE, drop harass, air defense, retreat cover. David Kim mentioned a while back that the balance team's determination was that the mine's splash radius was definitely too high, and yet they've become so tweak-shy and cautious from fan backlash IMO that they've tip-toed around any major changes and have yet to majorly alter the mine. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On September 02 2013 16:04 ReMinD_ wrote: I'm surprised there was no mention of TvP. As a Zerg player, this match-up is so incredibly boring to watch. Every single game it's the same damn thing and most of the time there's not a single engagement till 15th minute. I just turn off stream when there's a PvT. Anyway, the bolded part is what I agree the most with in this thread. Blizzard needs to pick up the pace if they want for this game to survive. While Dota 2 (and I presume LoL, too) are putting out new changes on a weekly basis, SC2 has had, what, 3 minor changes in 4-5 months. I think Dota 2 and LoL are slightly different beasts when it comes to balance. Because players aren't 'attached' to a hero like SC2 players are attached to a race and they can pick the OP heroes for themselves plus you can ban OP'ed heros. BW was balanced around maps. But the way SC2 is designed, the map structure gives very little defensive bonus so it is hard for maps to help with balance unless they do something drastic with base locations. And most sc2 maps are built around easy to take 3rds (hard to take 3rds basically promotes 2 base all-ins), so it is quite difficult to balance small things just using maps. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
I still don't think Starcraft 2's problems have much to do with strategy at all. Especially not lack in variety. Brood War strategies - especially when it comes to opening builds and early mid game - were pretty stagnant at times. The problem with the game is the inability to express and display mechanical skill. I've watched WCS finals - the entirety of WCS finals - and there were 3 moments where I was impressed with a player - some cute moves by Taeja vs Rain, and the last was Scarlett's Drone control vs Reapers. That's it. A couple impressive moments in a whole tournament. Might have missed some because god knows they don't last very long (or have much impact on the outcome of the game). When MC said he wanted to become a progamer by being inspired by Bisu - I can get that. Because when you watched Bisu play at his best, you see things on your screen that should not be humanly possible to execute. That you could never replicate in your games no matter how much you tried. That even other progamers couldn't reliably replicate. You see all that and you appreciate all the insane hours he put in, because you can SEE the result of hard work combined with talent combined with a professional-level training environment. So you can rightfully say "this guy is amazing, I want to play the game and be just like him". But now watch MC play, and you see none of that. There is no insane multitasking, there is very little genuine skill on display there. You see smart new build orders and perfect timings unfold, you see excellent decision making, but that just doesn't have the same impact and doesn't feel as amazing. How many new kids can MC really inspire playing a game like that? Not as many as Bisu did, rest assured. Not because he's necessarily bad and doesn't have the potential to be great, but because the game doesn't LET HIM be great at... anything really. When everything your game has is strategy, and when the only fun (both for players and viewers) comes from variety of strategies, of course it will be more susceptible to stagnation, imbalance, luck and randomness. Blizzard needs to tweak things all the time just to keep the game watchable, and there's no way to fix a game like that "permanently".  | ||
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aliquis
Austria38 Posts
Just to remind you guys, radical changes with expansion packs have been made in past blizzard rts games In the first and only Wc3 addon they added not only new units but completly changed the armor system, changed the upkeep system ( which was kind of the core mechanic of the whole game) they added neutral heroes and a ton of other stuff, so much you could write a whole essay about it ...they really changed the game a whole lot and for the better i dare to say. Its to early to give up hope just yet, blizzard has done radical changes with expansions in the past maybe they will do again in the future | ||
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FetusThrower
United States50 Posts
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Aelfric
Turkey1496 Posts
In my case the game is declining because people like me, who has a job or social responsibilities unlike when i was just a student and had to do good in my school is that Starcraft is just not fun if you don't play it hardcore. I used to play it hardcore because i could, i could win games. Now if i want to play a game after i get back from home it is just stupid mistakes i make that pisses me off because i am way too out of practice and i don't like to see myself playing like that. The game always demands you to stay in shape if you want to stay competitive. And the game is just not fun for me if i can't stay competitive. The other reason is the game is socially lacking in 1v1 point of view which i enjoyed to play but that's the design of the game i believe it can't be fixed. Now when i get back from work i just go play a few games of dota 2 with friends and i actually enjoy my time rather than being pissed off to myself how i lose by doing stupid mistakes. It's just this way for me, my 2 cents i guess. | ||
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theking1
Romania658 Posts
On September 02 2013 16:49 vthree wrote: I think Dota 2 and LoL are slightly different beasts when it comes to balance. Because players aren't 'attached' to a hero like SC2 players are attached to a race and they can pick the OP heroes for themselves plus you can ban OP'ed heros. BW was balanced around maps. But the way SC2 is designed, the map structure gives very little defensive bonus so it is hard for maps to help with balance unless they do something drastic with base locations. And most sc2 maps are built around easy to take 3rds (hard to take 3rds basically promotes 3 base all-ins), so it is quite difficult to balance small things just using maps. there are literally 5 viable heroes in lol for each position and no progamer stirs form the meta.not to mention most of them are only good at max 3. | ||
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wptlzkwjd
Canada1240 Posts
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iloveav
Poland1478 Posts
I mean, I cant outmicro marauders vs Imortals for example. Its too one sided. In bw you could outmicro lings vs firebats. The firebat guy had the upper hand, sure, but you could do it. In SC2, between the improven AI (so you dont ahve to babysit your units so much), and the stronger counters, the game gets too one sided if you think outside the box, making it safer to go for the same build over and over again. | ||
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Adreme
United States5574 Posts
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ARze
Australia45 Posts
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UmberBane
Germany5450 Posts
On September 02 2013 17:01 wptlzkwjd wrote: Mechanics in SCII is such a double edge sword. It feels so good to play it and when it's done right it's inspiring to watch but at the same time, it prevents any casual gamers from playing it more deeply compared to LoL. There is just so much physical effort playing SCII. I've played LoL and honestly enjoy playing it because it's a more relaxing atmosphere even during losing games because I have time to breathe or think. I always thought this was somewhat of a weak argument, though. BW's mechanics were a thousand times harder than SC2's yet it was also a thousand times more popular in Korea than SC2 is. In comparison to BW, you don't really need that much of of a physical effort for SC2, either. That's just not a cutting factor for the popularity of a game. On September 02 2013 17:00 theking1 wrote: there are literally 5 viable heroes in lol for each position and no progamer stirs form the meta.not to mention most of them are only good at max 3. In my opinion you can only judge a game by its highest level, which is of course Korea. What you just said is the equivalent of saying 4 gate is broken because it works so well in platinum. Not really a good basis to judge on. | ||
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cCav
62 Posts
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RobbieF
Australia28 Posts
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DJHelium
Sweden13480 Posts
I feel like this is the biggest limiting factor to SC2 atm, and that it would provide some solutions to what MC is talking about here. Some links if you're interested! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191702 http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/19sg1x/we_are_dustin_browder_alan_dabiri_and_david_kim/c8qwk2t | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
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