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Tbh his opinions on tvz would be much more accurately applied to pvt although hes right that the issues are somewhat similar. I don't know what hes talking about that zerg can't go roaches(hyunn?) or that terran doesnt have to scout for all ins or react when busts still can work quite often though.
Now take what he said to pvt though and its much more true, protoss knows what terran will be going: bio. All ins are pretty much non existent caus of MSC(11/11 shouldn't ever really work). There are a lot of aggressive builds protoss can do and just not be afraid of anything from the terran side able to kill them unless their aggressive build fails miserably and then later dying to stim medivac timing, when they are doing their aggressive build though theres really nothing to worry about the terran has to be completely on the defensive.
I don't think anyone would argue terran has more viable all ins in tvp than zerg has in zvt. This forces terran to play a macro game which he says is a problem in zvt even though zergs don't striclty have to play a macro game like terran does. I'm not really sure I'd agree with him on whether tvp because of ghost templar micro is actually more dynamic but that's opnion I guess. One thing toss has though is the option to all in. Many of which are incredibly difficult to hold and even harder to predict if not impossible at times which is coming.
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On September 02 2013 14:32 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 14:28 Xiphos wrote:On September 02 2013 14:26 goody153 wrote:On September 02 2013 14:23 Xiphos wrote:On September 02 2013 14:21 TheRabidDeer wrote:On September 02 2013 14:11 saddaromma wrote:On September 02 2013 14:08 ne4aJIb wrote:
add defilers to zerg, marines problem solved ;; load everything into medivac, boost out. Change it so it grounds air units so they cant boost out A simpler resolution is to bring Scourge back. Boost out? Yeah my scourge is ready to 9/11 on your spot where the sun doesn't shine. i think if you were to bring the scourge back you have to change the entire larva mechanic of zerg in sc2 .. imagine producing mass amount of scourges in one instance .. thats how it will happen if it is brought back ... no air would work vs zerg at that state .. unless they balance it out and make scourges cost like 500 gas and 500 min each so that its not gonna be as broken Then change it, and... On September 02 2013 14:26 Nasreth wrote:On September 02 2013 14:23 Xiphos wrote:On September 02 2013 14:21 TheRabidDeer wrote:On September 02 2013 14:11 saddaromma wrote:On September 02 2013 14:08 ne4aJIb wrote:
add defilers to zerg, marines problem solved ;; load everything into medivac, boost out. Change it so it grounds air units so they cant boost out A simpler resolution is to bring Scourge back. Boost out? Yeah my scourge is ready to 9/11 on your spot where the sun doesn't shine. The problem with bringing the scourge back is the impact it would have on ZvP give Pheonix splash damage. dude you cant just change the entire mechanic of zerg thats a lot of balancing and work .. and you also have to change the mechanics of other races to make it balanced just because of scourges
giving pheonix splash is too much .. with its speed + range + buildtime .. i dont think any air would ever work vs protoss that way .. it will be like siege tank that can kite like marines and are ridiculously fast
That's when the scourges come into play!
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MC is a cool dude. I love everything he brings to SC2. People should consider his advice.
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Unfortunately this is going to be completely ignored, Blizzard has proven they are happy with how the game is currently designed and have no intentions of listening to the community about big needed changes. The game right now is completely at the mercy of Blizzard and they have shown they don't plan to step up to the plate. On the brightside BW seems to be making a comeback. Sadly I feel Blizzard is starcrafts biggest enemy right now.
All this theory crafting is pointless because Blizzard hasn't and won't listen or act.
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On September 02 2013 14:32 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 14:28 Xiphos wrote:On September 02 2013 14:26 goody153 wrote:On September 02 2013 14:23 Xiphos wrote:On September 02 2013 14:21 TheRabidDeer wrote:On September 02 2013 14:11 saddaromma wrote:On September 02 2013 14:08 ne4aJIb wrote:
add defilers to zerg, marines problem solved ;; load everything into medivac, boost out. Change it so it grounds air units so they cant boost out A simpler resolution is to bring Scourge back. Boost out? Yeah my scourge is ready to 9/11 on your spot where the sun doesn't shine. i think if you were to bring the scourge back you have to change the entire larva mechanic of zerg in sc2 .. imagine producing mass amount of scourges in one instance .. thats how it will happen if it is brought back ... no air would work vs zerg at that state .. unless they balance it out and make scourges cost like 500 gas and 500 min each so that its not gonna be as broken Then change it, and... On September 02 2013 14:26 Nasreth wrote:On September 02 2013 14:23 Xiphos wrote:On September 02 2013 14:21 TheRabidDeer wrote:On September 02 2013 14:11 saddaromma wrote:On September 02 2013 14:08 ne4aJIb wrote:
add defilers to zerg, marines problem solved ;; load everything into medivac, boost out. Change it so it grounds air units so they cant boost out A simpler resolution is to bring Scourge back. Boost out? Yeah my scourge is ready to 9/11 on your spot where the sun doesn't shine. The problem with bringing the scourge back is the impact it would have on ZvP give Pheonix splash damage. dude you cant just change the entire mechanic of zerg thats a lot of balancing and work .. and you also have to change the mechanics of other races to make it balanced just because of scourges giving pheonix splash is too much .. with its speed + range + buildtime .. i dont think any air would ever work vs protoss that way .. it will be like siege tank that can kite like marines and are ridiculously fast
yes you can. In a current situation of sc2 any drastic change is welcome. The game is dying and needs to be revived. Buffing overseer speed doesn't cut it.
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MC is soo cool right!~~ sooo much respect for him...
I agree with what he said regarding TvZ completely... lingbling muta meh.
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thank you terry.
Very enlightening post.
I knew TvZ was bad, but wasn't aware most people think it's becoming atrocious...
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Thanks to you for translating and thanks to MC for writing this, great read!
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MC is such an awesome guy.
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On September 02 2013 14:34 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 14:32 goody153 wrote:On September 02 2013 14:28 Xiphos wrote:On September 02 2013 14:26 goody153 wrote:On September 02 2013 14:23 Xiphos wrote:On September 02 2013 14:21 TheRabidDeer wrote:On September 02 2013 14:11 saddaromma wrote:On September 02 2013 14:08 ne4aJIb wrote:
add defilers to zerg, marines problem solved ;; load everything into medivac, boost out. Change it so it grounds air units so they cant boost out A simpler resolution is to bring Scourge back. Boost out? Yeah my scourge is ready to 9/11 on your spot where the sun doesn't shine. i think if you were to bring the scourge back you have to change the entire larva mechanic of zerg in sc2 .. imagine producing mass amount of scourges in one instance .. thats how it will happen if it is brought back ... no air would work vs zerg at that state .. unless they balance it out and make scourges cost like 500 gas and 500 min each so that its not gonna be as broken Then change it, and... On September 02 2013 14:26 Nasreth wrote:On September 02 2013 14:23 Xiphos wrote:On September 02 2013 14:21 TheRabidDeer wrote:On September 02 2013 14:11 saddaromma wrote:On September 02 2013 14:08 ne4aJIb wrote:
add defilers to zerg, marines problem solved ;; load everything into medivac, boost out. Change it so it grounds air units so they cant boost out A simpler resolution is to bring Scourge back. Boost out? Yeah my scourge is ready to 9/11 on your spot where the sun doesn't shine. The problem with bringing the scourge back is the impact it would have on ZvP give Pheonix splash damage. dude you cant just change the entire mechanic of zerg thats a lot of balancing and work .. and you also have to change the mechanics of other races to make it balanced just because of scourges
giving pheonix splash is too much .. with its speed + range + buildtime .. i dont think any air would ever work vs protoss that way .. it will be like siege tank that can kite like marines and are ridiculously fast That's when the scourges come into play!
i think you dont understand how the sc2 pathing works the scourges will clump no matter what you do .. you cant also micro against it just look at zergling vs mines .. scourge vs phoenix will be harder than that ..
.. that scourges cannot touch the pheonixes if you give them splash .. they can just micro their heart out .. small number of pheonix will kill any number of scourges
and you forgot to consider how phoenix with splash will affect pvp and pvt
in pvp it might be like zvz where it was only muta wars
and it will eliminate air vs toss .. you are destroying all matchups that way
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oh my... my impression of mc changed...
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On September 02 2013 14:39 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 14:34 Xiphos wrote:On September 02 2013 14:32 goody153 wrote:On September 02 2013 14:28 Xiphos wrote:On September 02 2013 14:26 goody153 wrote:On September 02 2013 14:23 Xiphos wrote:On September 02 2013 14:21 TheRabidDeer wrote:On September 02 2013 14:11 saddaromma wrote:On September 02 2013 14:08 ne4aJIb wrote:
add defilers to zerg, marines problem solved ;; load everything into medivac, boost out. Change it so it grounds air units so they cant boost out A simpler resolution is to bring Scourge back. Boost out? Yeah my scourge is ready to 9/11 on your spot where the sun doesn't shine. i think if you were to bring the scourge back you have to change the entire larva mechanic of zerg in sc2 .. imagine producing mass amount of scourges in one instance .. thats how it will happen if it is brought back ... no air would work vs zerg at that state .. unless they balance it out and make scourges cost like 500 gas and 500 min each so that its not gonna be as broken Then change it, and... On September 02 2013 14:26 Nasreth wrote:On September 02 2013 14:23 Xiphos wrote:On September 02 2013 14:21 TheRabidDeer wrote:On September 02 2013 14:11 saddaromma wrote:On September 02 2013 14:08 ne4aJIb wrote:
add defilers to zerg, marines problem solved ;; load everything into medivac, boost out. Change it so it grounds air units so they cant boost out A simpler resolution is to bring Scourge back. Boost out? Yeah my scourge is ready to 9/11 on your spot where the sun doesn't shine. The problem with bringing the scourge back is the impact it would have on ZvP give Pheonix splash damage. dude you cant just change the entire mechanic of zerg thats a lot of balancing and work .. and you also have to change the mechanics of other races to make it balanced just because of scourges
giving pheonix splash is too much .. with its speed + range + buildtime .. i dont think any air would ever work vs protoss that way .. it will be like siege tank that can kite like marines and are ridiculously fast That's when the scourges come into play! i think you dont understand how the sc2 pathing works the scourges will clump no matter what you do .. you cant also micro against it just look at zergling vs mines .. scourge vs phoenix will be harder than that .. .. that scourges cannot touch the pheonixes if you give them splash .. they can just micro their heart out .. small number of pheonix will kill any number of scourges and you forgot to consider how phoenix with splash will affect pvp and pvt in pvp it might be like zvz where it was only muta wars and it will eliminate air vs toss .. you are destroying all matchups that way
So are you advocating against micromanaging units? You don't have to hide that no more. Scourge vs Pheonix will produce some high intensity moment in SC2.
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On September 02 2013 14:30 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 14:16 NoGasfOu wrote:On September 02 2013 13:51 Zambrah wrote:On September 02 2013 13:47 NoGasfOu wrote:
MC would be nothing if he has both personality and English but without the 390k under his belt. Nobody would remember him. Good thing he has ALL of those things. And because he manages to have ALL of those things he will be remembered longer than the players who only have one or the other. You're missing the point, MC says having results isnt everything. Connecting with fans is important, if MC didnt make himself so personable and connect with his fans like he does he wouldn't be very popular right now because his results aren't top notch right now. Its a COMBINATION of the two. MC's popularity is a result of his winnings during the 'golden age' of SC2 in which there were a lot more SC2 fans than now. Look at Mvp, Nestea and Flash! None of them has no personality or jack. I've never heard any of them speaking English. The opposite of reaching out to fans can result in a 'rare' product, too, which Kespa has been using all these years on their star players. Once you've exposed yourself out to the fans too much, you're not of a rare star (or product) anymore. Star power can also come from being hard-to-reach by fans. Just look at Jaedong! He's exposing himself too much by streaming and interacting with fans. This morning he typed something in the chat like this: "my fucking 4 hatch" to create interaction with fans. If you compare the current Jaedong to the superstar Jaedong under Kespa who was a 'rare product' and didn't have to do or say silly stuffs to win fans. If you compare the number of viewers he has had when started streaming after leaving a Kespa team with that of present. Just to show you that exposing yourself too much to the fans is not always a good thing. Being 'rare' and not 'reachable' can also make you a superstar. You just need to win a ton of tournaments and things will go your way. Too much interaction with fans can also result in a bad thing. Winning a ton of tournaments isnt really going to happen for most players though, the added popularity mileage gained through learning a phrase or two of english to repeat in an interview can help cement yourself a fanbase. I mean, is Innovation going to have a ton of fans if he stops putting up results? Results aren't everything, fans appreciate the effort taken to convey a pro's personality to them. If you dont win you dont have the opportunity to sell yourself to the community, but if you just win and aren't winning in any notable way or showing any real degree of personability to kind of wind up like aLive. The point is that the combination of skill and personality is the most solid way to go about creating a fanbase and keeping it if you're not going to dominate consistently like very few players are capable. Not like any pro is going to sink super hard in skill level spending a small amount of their free time learning even a single sentence of english to say in an interview. I mean read an LR thread, when a Korean speaks even a few words of english the fans EAT DAT SHIT UP.
I've mentioned before, but if you understand Kespa's policy and way of maintaining a superstar and raise the value of their 'products' vs that of being a personality or superstar in a foreigner way. If you understand the results of these different ways of creating and maintaining fan base, you will know what I mean.
You have two choices: Being a star in the foreigner way or being a star in the Kespa way. You can analyze the popularity, the professionalism, the benefits of each of two sides just by looking at past results for yourself. What benefits the particular players more, and what benefits the scene more?
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On September 02 2013 14:41 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 14:39 goody153 wrote:On September 02 2013 14:34 Xiphos wrote:On September 02 2013 14:32 goody153 wrote:On September 02 2013 14:28 Xiphos wrote:On September 02 2013 14:26 goody153 wrote:On September 02 2013 14:23 Xiphos wrote:On September 02 2013 14:21 TheRabidDeer wrote:On September 02 2013 14:11 saddaromma wrote:On September 02 2013 14:08 ne4aJIb wrote:
add defilers to zerg, marines problem solved ;; load everything into medivac, boost out. Change it so it grounds air units so they cant boost out A simpler resolution is to bring Scourge back. Boost out? Yeah my scourge is ready to 9/11 on your spot where the sun doesn't shine. i think if you were to bring the scourge back you have to change the entire larva mechanic of zerg in sc2 .. imagine producing mass amount of scourges in one instance .. thats how it will happen if it is brought back ... no air would work vs zerg at that state .. unless they balance it out and make scourges cost like 500 gas and 500 min each so that its not gonna be as broken Then change it, and... On September 02 2013 14:26 Nasreth wrote:On September 02 2013 14:23 Xiphos wrote:On September 02 2013 14:21 TheRabidDeer wrote:On September 02 2013 14:11 saddaromma wrote:On September 02 2013 14:08 ne4aJIb wrote:
add defilers to zerg, marines problem solved ;; load everything into medivac, boost out. Change it so it grounds air units so they cant boost out A simpler resolution is to bring Scourge back. Boost out? Yeah my scourge is ready to 9/11 on your spot where the sun doesn't shine. The problem with bringing the scourge back is the impact it would have on ZvP give Pheonix splash damage. dude you cant just change the entire mechanic of zerg thats a lot of balancing and work .. and you also have to change the mechanics of other races to make it balanced just because of scourges
giving pheonix splash is too much .. with its speed + range + buildtime .. i dont think any air would ever work vs protoss that way .. it will be like siege tank that can kite like marines and are ridiculously fast That's when the scourges come into play! i think you dont understand how the sc2 pathing works the scourges will clump no matter what you do .. you cant also micro against it just look at zergling vs mines .. scourge vs phoenix will be harder than that .. .. that scourges cannot touch the pheonixes if you give them splash .. they can just micro their heart out .. small number of pheonix will kill any number of scourges and you forgot to consider how phoenix with splash will affect pvp and pvt in pvp it might be like zvz where it was only muta wars and it will eliminate air vs toss .. you are destroying all matchups that way So are you advocating against micromanaging units? You don't have to hide that no more. Scourge vs Pheonix will produce some high intensity moment in SC2.
nope .. im just stating the game will be broken more than ever if they did that .. scourges only worked in sc1 because of the pathing mechanics that really sucked and because zerg cant pump out 70 of them at the same time if they dont have MASS amount of hatcheries and mass amount of resources ..
in sc2 you could do that in with just 4 hatcheries with a few queens .. and in sc2 its not impossible since you have like 2000 min per minute in a normal macro game .. and the pathing will make the scourges clumped as fucked
that it is either so easy to use or it is so easy to counter .. do you like coinflippy matchups ?
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tvz does indeed suck balls for zerg
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I feel like the state of terran is defined by the weakness of tanks.
Tanks scale with positioning in a way that widow mines don't - they have a sort of measured slowness that emphasizes the zone-control style that terran should be based on. "Parade pushing" is the exact opposite of this. If tanks were made better in comparison, we would see more measured, deliberate play, instead of this 'throw units at it until it works' style.
My 2¢.
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Vatican City State431 Posts
People are still whining about MMMM in TvZ, but if you force Terran players to go high-tech what is there? All high tier Terran units are useless. It will be an automatic loss. Mech is garbage. End of story. Vipers are too good in countering high tech units.
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On September 02 2013 14:43 NoGasfOu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2013 14:30 Zambrah wrote:On September 02 2013 14:16 NoGasfOu wrote:On September 02 2013 13:51 Zambrah wrote:On September 02 2013 13:47 NoGasfOu wrote:
MC would be nothing if he has both personality and English but without the 390k under his belt. Nobody would remember him. Good thing he has ALL of those things. And because he manages to have ALL of those things he will be remembered longer than the players who only have one or the other. You're missing the point, MC says having results isnt everything. Connecting with fans is important, if MC didnt make himself so personable and connect with his fans like he does he wouldn't be very popular right now because his results aren't top notch right now. Its a COMBINATION of the two. MC's popularity is a result of his winnings during the 'golden age' of SC2 in which there were a lot more SC2 fans than now. Look at Mvp, Nestea and Flash! None of them has no personality or jack. I've never heard any of them speaking English. The opposite of reaching out to fans can result in a 'rare' product, too, which Kespa has been using all these years on their star players. Once you've exposed yourself out to the fans too much, you're not of a rare star (or product) anymore. Star power can also come from being hard-to-reach by fans. Just look at Jaedong! He's exposing himself too much by streaming and interacting with fans. This morning he typed something in the chat like this: "my fucking 4 hatch" to create interaction with fans. If you compare the current Jaedong to the superstar Jaedong under Kespa who was a 'rare product' and didn't have to do or say silly stuffs to win fans. If you compare the number of viewers he has had when started streaming after leaving a Kespa team with that of present. Just to show you that exposing yourself too much to the fans is not always a good thing. Being 'rare' and not 'reachable' can also make you a superstar. You just need to win a ton of tournaments and things will go your way. Too much interaction with fans can also result in a bad thing. Winning a ton of tournaments isnt really going to happen for most players though, the added popularity mileage gained through learning a phrase or two of english to repeat in an interview can help cement yourself a fanbase. I mean, is Innovation going to have a ton of fans if he stops putting up results? Results aren't everything, fans appreciate the effort taken to convey a pro's personality to them. If you dont win you dont have the opportunity to sell yourself to the community, but if you just win and aren't winning in any notable way or showing any real degree of personability to kind of wind up like aLive. The point is that the combination of skill and personality is the most solid way to go about creating a fanbase and keeping it if you're not going to dominate consistently like very few players are capable. Not like any pro is going to sink super hard in skill level spending a small amount of their free time learning even a single sentence of english to say in an interview. I mean read an LR thread, when a Korean speaks even a few words of english the fans EAT DAT SHIT UP. I've mentioned before, but if you understand Kespa's policy and way of maintaining a superstar and raise the value of their 'products' vs that of being a personality or superstar in a foreigner way. If you understand the results of these different ways of creating and maintaining fan base, you will know what I mean. You have two choices: Being a star in the foreigner way or being a star in the Kespa way. You can analyze the popularity, the professionalism, the benefits of each of two sides just by looking at past results for yourself.
I didn't watch Broodwar so I have no idea what KeSPA's policies with regards to promoting their stars are. If Im just looking at results of the "foreigner way" and the "KesPA way" they BOTH seem to work. MC is the greatest example of someone maintaining stardom the "foreigner way." Polt is another highly successful example of someone being a star in the "foreigner way."
I don't understand what you're trying to tell me here, is it that the "foreigner way" is less professional, leaves players less popular, and is less beneficial than the "KeSPA way?"
I'm taking "KeSPA way" to mean to solely show results, and the "foreigner way" to mean attempting interviews in English and fan interaction and what not.
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Dear David Kim,
What are your thoughts on the Tempest?
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EPT
