EPTCall to Action: August 19 Balance Testing - Page 27
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DeathDyingDoomKiller
Canada91 Posts
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SsDrKosS
330 Posts
On August 21 2013 18:45 erezzun wrote: How about bringing back Insta fungal? I'm not sure how it affects to zvp meta, in zvz it is not problem because of less muta play after spore buff Oh well, it will brrrreak TvZ for sure  maybe 'faster' fungal or neuro parasite buff. but personally, I don't think zerg needs a buff. I only want mine nerf :p | ||
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KOtical
Germany451 Posts
On August 21 2013 17:45 rEdEEmEd wrote: What would be so nice about terran upgrade is this... - Remove the Engeneering bay. - Armory is the new setting for terran upgrade. - You can add tech lab or reactor to Armory. - You can research more specific upgrades for buildings (techlab) or you can research 2 upgrade at a time for units. - Would create build like bio/mech composition i really like this idea! but to do this u may want the armory to be flyable | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12027 Posts
This way it helps zergs against constant bio pushes (as units under it take no ranged damage other than splash) and it doesn't completely shut down tank based mech play. Infact, it'd give tanks more a place even with Bio as you'd need the splash they offer. | ||
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SsDrKosS
330 Posts
On August 21 2013 18:52 Qikz wrote: The way to fix everything in TvZ is to change Blinding Cloud to work like Dark swarm. Seriously. This way it helps zergs against constant bio pushes (as units under it take no ranged damage other than splash) and it doesn't completely shut down tank based mech play. Infact, it'd give tanks more a place even with Bio as you'd need the splash they offer. ummm... if infestors can use them, I wouldn't mind  seriously, most zergs can't even get to hive in TvZ. blame 4M. and it will be devastating vs PvZ. something had to go. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On August 21 2013 17:53 TheRabidDeer wrote: The only reason BC's have ever been "bad" against zerg is because they are 0-0 upgrades in the lategame. BC's, ravens and ghosts are all viable in the late game for terran though, really. I wouldnt mind seeing cloaked ghost queen sniping into tech nuking. 2 nukes kills any tech building. Send in 5 or 6 ghosts while turtling, kill the main + nat + 3rd + macro hatch queen -> nuke all the tech. Obviously there is no Neural Parasite, no "vs massive Corruptors" and no "machinegun Hydras" (BCs are even slower than slow Hydras off creep). And there probably isnt an Abduct spell either now, eh? Ghosts - which are Tier 2 units which were NOT the topic - dont deal nearly enough damage for their cost when they run out of energy because they are squishy "vs. light specialists" and a big part of the damage Zerg deals does not come from light units. Ravens are super expensive at 200 gas apiece and thus can never really achieve the efficiency of Infestors AND their "fighting unit" costs 50 energy and requires building squares and thus isnt as spammable and as "concentratable" as the Infested Terrans of the Infestor. Their other two spells are far too expensive to be useable all the time because you wont ever have the 25+ of them as it was possible for the Infestor. Too bad the Seeker Missile got nerfed so much that it doesnt really do AoE anymore (because most of the time only one target gets hit). Even if the Terran had the gas to build 25 Ravens that would take AGES since they cant just do it in one production cycle so the unit has at max a supporting role. Numbers - "critical numbers" at that - affect the power of a unit and in the case of energy units it is important to have enough of them so you can "always have a Fungal" or "always Forcefield" ... and that is simply unrealistic for the Raven. Dont look at them when they are doing something ... look at them over the course of "the whole war". | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On August 21 2013 18:52 Qikz wrote: The way to fix everything in TvZ is to change Blinding Cloud to work like Dark swarm. Seriously. This way it helps zergs against constant bio pushes (as units under it take no ranged damage other than splash) and it doesn't completely shut down tank based mech play. Infact, it'd give tanks more a place even with Bio as you'd need the splash they offer. The current developer team however have repeatedly proven that they have a mental block when it comes to make sc2 more like sc1... <.< | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12027 Posts
On August 21 2013 18:58 SsDrKosS wrote: ummm... if infestors can use them, I wouldn't mind seriously, most zergs can't even get to hive in TvZ. blame 4M. and it will be devastating vs PvZ. something had to go. I've seen plenty of zergs actually get a hive. The issue is they can't afford the ultra transition due to spending all their money constantly trading with bio. It'd also make Hydra/Roach a hell of a lot better vs Bio as the main issue is the marine DPS. | ||
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MiCroLiFe
Norway275 Posts
On August 21 2013 18:49 lolfail9001 wrote: Except that zergs kinda do not get to survive until ultras most of time, without some brilliance or blunder from terran in midgame. That is not correct. Im a mid master on europe and my only way to win a zerg is to do some 2 rak all in. every zerg in master know how to disable mines pretty easy.. move some lings and let them be dead, then a move rest of army. I win every engagemnts until ultras comes and cant do anything.. AND you wasnt beeing relevant to the topic, ultras are alredy to powerfull, why make them even stronger? | ||
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ETisME
12702 Posts
On August 21 2013 17:39 Rabiator wrote: Swap that part with "can go higher tech" ... nothing high tech on the Terran side makes any sense at all and even Ravens - which are awesome when you have the energy to use them - cant keep up with the reproduction rate of Zerg. Battlecruisers have been useless against Zerg ever since the first day of WoL and nothing has changed ... except that they are even more useless nowadays with Abduct added to the Zerg arsenal. + Show Spoiler + /trade WTB scrolls of Irradiate and Defensive Matrix to teach to Ravens since the stupid engineers seem to have forgotten its secrets in just five years. The reason for the "T3 problems" lie in the extremely high concentration of small AA units which maximizes their firepower while the "clump up punishing abilities" have been nerfed. Even Seeker Missile gets a five second warning and nice red glow as a warning so you can get every other unit out of the way. Completely stupid and Blizzard should really stop with that nonsense. You obviously haven't seen skyterran games. Go watch Thorzain games during hots beta, skyterran is possibly the strongest deathball in sc2. Only skytoss can match its power. | ||
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havok55
United States276 Posts
On August 21 2013 18:52 Qikz wrote: The way to fix everything in TvZ is to change Blinding Cloud to work like Dark swarm. Seriously. This way it helps zergs against constant bio pushes (as units under it take no ranged damage other than splash) and it doesn't completely shut down tank based mech play. Infact, it'd give tanks more a place even with Bio as you'd need the splash they offer. Would make attacking zerg bases near impossible. They just cloud leading to the hatchery and you can't even go near it. Tanks won't do anything because vipers still have abduct. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
On August 21 2013 19:03 ETisME wrote: You obviously haven't seen skyterran games. Go watch Thorzain games during hots beta, skyterran is possibly the strongest deathball in sc2. Only skytoss can match its power. I think with "nothing" he meant "nothing reachable". But I agree with you, if you can make a perfect army from scratch according to your wishes, then the terran sky army is not to be underestimated. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On August 21 2013 18:52 Qikz wrote: The way to fix everything in TvZ is to change Blinding Cloud to work like Dark swarm. Seriously. This way it helps zergs against constant bio pushes (as units under it take no ranged damage other than splash) and it doesn't completely shut down tank based mech play. Infact, it'd give tanks more a place even with Bio as you'd need the splash they offer. The way to "fix everything" is to get rid of the massive production of units and the maximized concentration of units. Low economy and therefore reduced unit production coupled with spread out units AND a micro requirement to concentrate your units into a more efficient dense formation gives players more control and allows for far easier balancing of the units. | ||
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Rabiator
Germany3948 Posts
On August 21 2013 19:03 ETisME wrote: You obviously haven't seen skyterran games. Go watch Thorzain games during hots beta, skyterran is possibly the strongest deathball in sc2. Only skytoss can match its power. So why isnt he roflstomping every Zerg with it now if it is so powerful? | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On August 21 2013 02:20 IMplying wrote: Yet another patch that makes you question David Kims understanding of the game. Do you have any credentials to back up your statement? Which games did you develop so far? Are you at least a pro gamer with a deep understanding of the game (even though the reliance on winning game could bias your view)? | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On August 21 2013 17:41 lolfail9001 wrote: I love how you give sample size of exactly one game. I love how you completely missed the point. | ||
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ETisME
12702 Posts
On August 21 2013 19:13 Rabiator wrote: So why isnt he roflstomping every Zerg with it now if it is so powerful? the combined upgrade didn't go through to the actual game. that was the key to make skyterran transition a lot easier and stronger, but the bigger problem is that mech still doesn't work in hots. it is harder for bio style to transition into it, but not impossible. (and not needed some times because zerg staying in lair tech for so long anyway) watch hyun polt game for reference. | ||
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algue
France1436 Posts
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Sissors
1395 Posts
Counter will be mainly abducts + spores + regular anti air, and swarm hosts for pressure. Since a skyterran can't split up his army, he has to keep defending the swarm host pressure, and can get picked of one at a time. Of course he can then also do the frontal assault, but while sky terran is very strong in that fashion, he is then fighting on top of a field of spore crawlers. | ||
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ETisME
12702 Posts
On August 21 2013 19:31 Sissors wrote: Skyterran is a very strong composition, but really not uncounterably for zergs. It just took them a bit of time to figure out skytoss, and skyterran isn't all that different. Counter will be mainly abducts + spores + regular anti air, and swarm hosts for pressure. Since a skyterran can't split up his army, he has to keep defending the swarm host pressure, and can get picked of one at a time. Of course he can then also do the frontal assault, but while sky terran is very strong in that fashion, he is then fighting on top of a field of spore crawlers. sky terran doesn't mean a pure sky unit. It does include some tanks to zone hydras and swarmhosts, mines to add in extra zoning ability and AoE splash for currptors and thor for AoE AA damage then using BCs yamato to snipe and pdds to defend any attempt to snipe units. vikings to snipe vipers and corruptors like how they sniped broodlords and corruptors in WoL | ||
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