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On August 20 2013 04:07 EkiMGnaW wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 00:36 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 00:32 EkiMGnaW wrote:
How long does it take to get a visa? Is 12 days enough time?
Maybe they (the players, managers, etc.) can apply for a visa to Country X before they know whether or not they need the visa. If the player makes the cut, the visa is ready to go. If the player doesn't make the cut, don't go. Are there negative consequences if a visa isn't used? All right, we are doing this again. Normally, you cannot apply for a visa if you think you “might” need it. You need to apply for a visa if you have confirmed plans to travel to that area and you need to be able to back up those plans. This does not apply to US “waiver visas” between the US and a select group of nations. But for the rest of the world, you normally need to tell them where you are going and provide proof that you are going there. Visas are a pain in the ass to get normally. In that case, when does Blizzard announce the venue/location/country for the season finals? It seems like some visa issues might be solved if teams/players/managers are given enough time to plan for the trip. In short, if getting a visa only takes 3 days total, then the 12 day layoff should be sufficient because this seems like a time/planning issue.
Actually, it´s just as easy as you describe and all people who work in organizing and partaking in these events are not as smart as you are. It´s the only logical explination for all this.
Still props to Plansix for herding the drama kittens. 
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
On August 20 2013 04:12 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 04:07 EkiMGnaW wrote:On August 20 2013 00:36 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 00:32 EkiMGnaW wrote:
How long does it take to get a visa? Is 12 days enough time?
Maybe they (the players, managers, etc.) can apply for a visa to Country X before they know whether or not they need the visa. If the player makes the cut, the visa is ready to go. If the player doesn't make the cut, don't go. Are there negative consequences if a visa isn't used? All right, we are doing this again. Normally, you cannot apply for a visa if you think you “might” need it. You need to apply for a visa if you have confirmed plans to travel to that area and you need to be able to back up those plans. This does not apply to US “waiver visas” between the US and a select group of nations. But for the rest of the world, you normally need to tell them where you are going and provide proof that you are going there. Visas are a pain in the ass to get normally. In that case, when does Blizzard announce the venue/location/country for the season finals? It seems like some visa issues might be solved if teams/players/managers are given enough time to plan for the trip. In short, if getting a visa only takes 3 days total, then the 12 day layoff should be sufficient because this seems like a time/planning issue. they are known for quite some time now. It's been Korea, this season is Germany, next is Canada, right?
Correct. S1 is Korea, S2 is Germany, S3 is Canada, and BlizzCon is US.
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United States23455 Posts
Jim and Violet can compete in a seperate online tourney for "King of Visa issues". On a more serious note, this sucks. Pretty hard. But I hope aLive can do well in his place, and we don't see this kind of thing keep any more players out of tournaments!
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On August 20 2013 04:13 Daswollvieh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 04:07 EkiMGnaW wrote:On August 20 2013 00:36 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 00:32 EkiMGnaW wrote:
How long does it take to get a visa? Is 12 days enough time?
Maybe they (the players, managers, etc.) can apply for a visa to Country X before they know whether or not they need the visa. If the player makes the cut, the visa is ready to go. If the player doesn't make the cut, don't go. Are there negative consequences if a visa isn't used? All right, we are doing this again. Normally, you cannot apply for a visa if you think you “might” need it. You need to apply for a visa if you have confirmed plans to travel to that area and you need to be able to back up those plans. This does not apply to US “waiver visas” between the US and a select group of nations. But for the rest of the world, you normally need to tell them where you are going and provide proof that you are going there. Visas are a pain in the ass to get normally. In that case, when does Blizzard announce the venue/location/country for the season finals? It seems like some visa issues might be solved if teams/players/managers are given enough time to plan for the trip. In short, if getting a visa only takes 3 days total, then the 12 day layoff should be sufficient because this seems like a time/planning issue. Actually, it´s just as easy as you describe and all people who work in organizing and partaking in these events are not as smart as you are. It´s the only logical explination for all this. Still props to Plansix for herding the drama kittens.
I just feel really bad for Jim and think is must be really rough for him right now. I sure he is kicking his own ass and he doesn’t need a bunch of people on TL helping him do that. In the future, we can only hope that folks have minimal issues with visas. But mistakes happen.
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i have to say it was predictable and a huge mistake by all the orgas AND the chinese, if you need months or so to get visa to the usa, and KNOW 2 weeks later are the global finals, well you have to make a visa for the EU too ... nothing else to say then that was just forgotten ... it felt from first second wrong
suuuper sad for jim 
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On August 20 2013 04:00 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 02:44 scintilliaSD wrote:On August 20 2013 02:13 Just_a_Moth wrote:
Why is it so hard for Chinese people to get visas? Is it cause other countries think they are more likely to stay there illegally than, say, Koreans or people from other countries? This is, unfortunately, partially the case. Yeah, just recently there was a piece in the news about the police in Spain and France busting a Chinese trafficking ring Chinese Human Trafficking Ring Busted in Spain and France
From working at Chinese restaurants in America, I can tell you that I have been lightly exposed to these people and I know how these rings function.
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On August 20 2013 04:09 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 04:00 BaneRiders wrote:On August 20 2013 02:44 scintilliaSD wrote:On August 20 2013 02:13 Just_a_Moth wrote:
Why is it so hard for Chinese people to get visas? Is it cause other countries think they are more likely to stay there illegally than, say, Koreans or people from other countries? This is, unfortunately, partially the case. Yeah, just recently there was a piece in the news about the police in Spain and France busting a Chinese trafficking ring Chinese Human Trafficking Ring Busted in Spain and France That being said, I have traveled a lot in my line of work, and the worst place to get a visa for in my experience was Sudan, so I would strongly recommend Blizzard, or anyone else for that matter, not to organize an international even there.  I think it has been clear to absolutely everyone involved that this season's final will take place in Germany for a long time. Thus there is no excuse for not knowing exactly what paperwork needs to be done for a visa application. That is called doing one's homework, and this apparently wasn't done. Visa applications can get rejected nevertheless, but that is a different story. However, if players find it difficult to process a visa application due to short time between online and offline parts of the tournament they are participating in, then it can be argued that the organizer of the event is to blame rather than the player. I don't know how long it takes for a Chinese to get a visa application processed for EU / USA, but this should be something for planners for next years WSC to take into consideration when they make the schedule. So maybe both organizers and participants should learn from this season. I don't doubt for one minute that everyone has tried very hard to solve this and earlier visa issues, but these last minutes fixes simply don't work out all the time. Shouldn't the player then try to make the visa in advance? I mean, yeah sure they cost a lot of money, but you really cannot expect blizzard to accomodate everybody and if you expect blizzard to accomodate somebody in advance (the dates where set probably long before Jim's participation in the finals was clear), where do you draw the line? Moreover, I would like to add that the time would have been sufficient, had they prepared the necessary documents beforehand.
Yes, visas can be applied for in advance, but you might need an accompanying letter from the organizer of the event to get a visa, making it difficult to submit an application way ahead. The organizer could, to be on the safe side, send out invitation letters to all of the Ro32 players who might need one (as suggested above), but that is of course for the organizer to decide on.
I cannot judge if the time would have been sufficient myself, but I suppose it says on the German Embassy China website how long a visa application takes. It usually does. The given time frame and add some days for weird things beyond anyone's control (the dog ate my passport!!) should be enough I suppose.
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On August 20 2013 04:24 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 04:13 Daswollvieh wrote:On August 20 2013 04:07 EkiMGnaW wrote:On August 20 2013 00:36 Plansix wrote:On August 20 2013 00:32 EkiMGnaW wrote:
How long does it take to get a visa? Is 12 days enough time?
Maybe they (the players, managers, etc.) can apply for a visa to Country X before they know whether or not they need the visa. If the player makes the cut, the visa is ready to go. If the player doesn't make the cut, don't go. Are there negative consequences if a visa isn't used? All right, we are doing this again. Normally, you cannot apply for a visa if you think you “might” need it. You need to apply for a visa if you have confirmed plans to travel to that area and you need to be able to back up those plans. This does not apply to US “waiver visas” between the US and a select group of nations. But for the rest of the world, you normally need to tell them where you are going and provide proof that you are going there. Visas are a pain in the ass to get normally. In that case, when does Blizzard announce the venue/location/country for the season finals? It seems like some visa issues might be solved if teams/players/managers are given enough time to plan for the trip. In short, if getting a visa only takes 3 days total, then the 12 day layoff should be sufficient because this seems like a time/planning issue. Actually, it´s just as easy as you describe and all people who work in organizing and partaking in these events are not as smart as you are. It´s the only logical explination for all this. Still props to Plansix for herding the drama kittens. I just feel really bad for Jim and think is must be really rough for him right now. I sure he is kicking his own ass and he doesn’t need a bunch of people on TL helping him do that. In the future, we can only hope that folks have minimal issues with visas. But mistakes happen.
It was even worse for Russian players. There should be a liquipedia page devoted solely to the tournaments BratOK missed because of Visa issues. It´s not a new problem, it just didn´t get as much spotlight as WCS gets naturally.
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On August 19 2013 23:36 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 23:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2013 23:32 stratmatt wrote:
IMO, anyone with a history of forfeiting wcs spots due to visa issues should be suspended for a season. I don't care if its harsh, because the only thing harsher is the fact that numerous players are missing out on a chance to compete due to losing to people who cant even make it to all their matches. How many more future NA spots are going to be robbed by koreans/chinese players who cant even attend the finals or sometimes even the ro16? Such bullshit. Is this actually Jim's fault? Regardless, it's a pity that he had to forfeit his spot. I know the Chinese players have a pretty big following in the community. Best of luck to Alive though! he's not saying it's jim's fault There definitely needs to be a system in place for taking care of players who can't acquire visas, because it takes away opportunities from other players and makes for shitty tournament situations (walkover lottery against viOLet 2 seasons in a row). I'd prefer it be a system where they find replacements for absent players, but given the # of players someone like violet can eliminate on his way up, suspensions for multiple violations might be necessary on top of that.
You got it backwards, There should be a way from tournament organizers to MAKE SURE every participant are present at the event and only in the worst case scenario look for replacements.
And yeah, for this situation, if there's someone to be blamed, it's Blizzard.
(No need to punish a poor guy who did his best but he was denied the chance to participate to the event)
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You should have the visa already approved before the tournament starts in my opinion. Reading all these threads about Macseed and Jim's visa issues really shows the lack of preparation and planning in SC2 tourneys.
No approved Visa should be mean no entry into tournament
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Jim T___T sigh...he could have done so well
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On August 20 2013 04:40 HomeWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2013 23:36 Waxangel wrote:On August 19 2013 23:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On August 19 2013 23:32 stratmatt wrote:
IMO, anyone with a history of forfeiting wcs spots due to visa issues should be suspended for a season. I don't care if its harsh, because the only thing harsher is the fact that numerous players are missing out on a chance to compete due to losing to people who cant even make it to all their matches. How many more future NA spots are going to be robbed by koreans/chinese players who cant even attend the finals or sometimes even the ro16? Such bullshit. Is this actually Jim's fault? Regardless, it's a pity that he had to forfeit his spot. I know the Chinese players have a pretty big following in the community. Best of luck to Alive though! he's not saying it's jim's fault There definitely needs to be a system in place for taking care of players who can't acquire visas, because it takes away opportunities from other players and makes for shitty tournament situations (walkover lottery against viOLet 2 seasons in a row). I'd prefer it be a system where they find replacements for absent players, but given the # of players someone like violet can eliminate on his way up, suspensions for multiple violations might be necessary on top of that. You got it backwards, There should be a way from tournament organizers to MAKE SURE every participant are present at the event and only in the worst case scenario look for replacements. And yeah, for this situation, if there's someone to be blamed, it's Blizzard. (No need to punish a poor guy who did his best but he was denied the chance to participate to the event)
How is Blizzard’s fault that Jim didn’t have a notarized letter from his mother to attend the WCS seasons 2 global finals? How exactly does Blizzard influence German laws or make them issue Visas?
I know this might be hard to accept for people, but it could just be an honest mistake no one is really to blame. I know we love to use our pitchforks here, but this might be the time when we just have to be bummed out and say “That’s to bad. But there is always next season.”
On August 20 2013 04:40 Orcasgt24 wrote:
You should have the visa already approved before the tournament starts in my opinion. Reading all these threads about Macseed and Jim's visa issues really shows the lack of preparation and planning in SC2 tourneys.
No approved Visa should be mean no entry into tournament
If you had read the threads like you claimed, you would not be saying that because you would know they can’t get a visa in advance without some sort of invitation or proof they are going to attend.
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On August 20 2013 04:40 Orcasgt24 wrote:
You should have the visa already approved before the tournament starts in my opinion. Reading all these threads about Macseed and Jim's visa issues really shows the lack of preparation and planning in SC2 tourneys.
No approved Visa should be mean no entry into tournament
You have not read through any thread. Otherwise you'd know that you cannot get a visa in advance.
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Another reason why region locking or residency locking are required if Blizzard wants their product not to look like a giant joke. Oh, i guess at this point nobody is taking that tournament seriously anyways. So who cares.
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Russian Federation66 Posts
On August 20 2013 04:51 TigerKarl wrote:
Another reason why region locking or residency locking are required if Blizzard wants their product not to look like a giant joke. Oh, i guess at this point nobody is taking that tournament seriously anyways. So who cares.
So what region should be China placed in? Korea?
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 20 2013 04:51 TigerKarl wrote:
Another reason why region locking or residency locking are required if Blizzard wants their product not to look like a giant joke. Oh, i guess at this point nobody is taking that tournament seriously anyways. So who cares.
Lol, oh yeah. Region locking will help SOOO much in resolving issues flying to GLOBAL final.
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On August 20 2013 05:00 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 04:51 TigerKarl wrote:
Another reason why region locking or residency locking are required if Blizzard wants their product not to look like a giant joke. Oh, i guess at this point nobody is taking that tournament seriously anyways. So who cares. Lol, oh yeah. Region locking will help SOOO much in resolving issues flying to GLOBAL final.
Damn you, why are you ruining their hate train on Blizzard and SC2 with your wrenched logic and ability to read the thread?!?
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 20 2013 05:03 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 05:00 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 20 2013 04:51 TigerKarl wrote:
Another reason why region locking or residency locking are required if Blizzard wants their product not to look like a giant joke. Oh, i guess at this point nobody is taking that tournament seriously anyways. So who cares. Lol, oh yeah. Region locking will help SOOO much in resolving issues flying to GLOBAL final. Damn you, why are you ruining their hate train on Blizzard and SC2 with your wrenched logic and ability to read the thread?!?
For the sake of it
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At this rate, Blizzard might as well just buy a cruise ship, sail to pick up each players in their home country, then host the damn final offshore in international waters.
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On August 20 2013 02:13 Just_a_Moth wrote:
Why is it so hard for Chinese people to get visas? Is it cause other countries think they are more likely to stay there illegally than, say, Koreans or people from other countries?
Most people who play SC2 are from western friendly nations that allow visa waiver programs. It has less to do with staying illegally or more to do with fear of espionage, terrorism, etc.
I mean you're not wrong. China is still a poor country with significantly lower GDP per a capita than any other country that has a starcraft 2 scene. It also has the largest population of any country. This means they need to control immigration and select qualified individuals.
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EPT
