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YyapSsap
New Zealand1511 Posts
On August 13 2013 08:49 TheRabidDeer wrote: When was it last tried? I thought it was already during HotS... The BC becoming too strong was more of a TvT thing last time i remember hence why only the combined armor upgrade was left as it is. | ||
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Green_25
Great Britain696 Posts
On August 13 2013 08:50 A.Alm wrote: Make WM's more expensive or lower their damage and make them 1 supply (so they dont one hit banes f.e) Buff tanks damage. Don't nerf their damage, that would kinda defeat the concept of a 'mine' unit. Just make them more gas intensive. The problem with widow mines is that they are too cheap/easy to reproduce. Thats basically it. | ||
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Terranist
United States2496 Posts
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DavoS
United States4605 Posts
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On August 13 2013 08:49 Doko wrote: lol, your logic for cinematics is hilarious. That shot probably was nearing final render before the game devs even had a clue of what they were gonna add to terran for hots as far as units, seeing a shreder suddenly pop up in the middle of that ultraling charge would be kind of weird don't you think? carbot animations had a widow mine in the cinematic!! all arguments rendered invalid (i guess). =) | ||
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Green_25
Great Britain696 Posts
On August 13 2013 08:52 Terranist wrote: if they wanted to make mech better why would they buff the zerg unit that stops mech completely? Vipers don't 'stop' mech. They shut down early pushes, but as long as you produce vikings and spread your tanks vipers really aren't that scary as a mech player. Swarmhosts are the problem. As well as mass muta tech switches. Its like PvZ, except mech is even less mobile. | ||
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YyapSsap
New Zealand1511 Posts
On August 13 2013 08:52 Terranist wrote: if they wanted to make mech better why would they buff the zerg unit that stops mech completely? Welcome to the Blizzard balance team! /smh | ||
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
On August 13 2013 08:53 DavoS wrote: I still don't see the use of the viper honesty. If there was an upgrade that increased abduct range i think that'd be cool for helping zerg not die to void rays as much I'm perplexed. Vipers are amazing vs. both Terran mech and all Protoss compositions. The abduct range is totally fine in my experience; I've lost a lot of every kind of amazing, expensive tech unit to abduct and not killed a lot of Vipers in return. | ||
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YyapSsap
New Zealand1511 Posts
On August 13 2013 08:55 Green_25 wrote: Vipers don't 'stop' mech. They shut down early pushes, but as long as you produce vikings and spread your tanks vipers really aren't that scary as a mech player. Swarmhosts are the problem. As well as mass muta tech switches. Its like PvZ, except mech is even less mobile. Vipers do stop mech or atleast kill off their mobility even more as if your caught by the zerg army, your doomed since spearing tanks on the go is quite difficult and time consuming. Early pushes? there are no vipers for "early" mech pushes. The moment the tanks are clumped and you siege, your doomed. Even if you have them moderately clumped/spread e.g. 3 tanks here, 2 there.. 5x binding clouds will take out 50~70% of your firepower straight off the bat. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On August 13 2013 08:55 Green_25 wrote: Vipers don't 'stop' mech. They shut down early pushes, but as long as you produce vikings and spread your tanks vipers really aren't that scary as a mech player. Swarmhosts are the problem. As well as mass muta tech switches. Its like PvZ, except mech is even less mobile. You must have never seen a maxed 200/200 Terran mech army with 20 tanks with only 2 of the tanks firing vs vipers because Zerg just put down 8 blinding clouds with 4 vipers... And before you begin to nitpick what i just said, what i just stated above is with the tanks pre-spread apart over almost 1.5 screen lengths. | ||
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Myrddraal
Australia937 Posts
On August 13 2013 04:53 Plansix wrote: Nerfs suck. They make the game worse, punish people for using units well and only limit the meta game. It is better to buff units to deal with the problems, rather than nerf ones people are already using. I think the best solutions are combination buff/nerfs, for example rather than just increase Viper starting energy, why not make it so Blinding Cloud also only reduces range of units by 75%, so that it is more accessible but it doesn't counter Mech quite as hard. And for Immortals, why not reduce their single target damage to armoured to about 35 but give them a very small AOE or piercing shot (hits a unit or two behind the target) so they don't wipe out armoured units so fast, but they open up Protoss's options a lot more since you wouldn't have to invest so heavily for the much needed AOE. | ||
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Crownlol
United States3726 Posts
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Green_25
Great Britain696 Posts
On August 13 2013 08:58 avilo wrote: You must have never seen a maxed 200/200 Terran mech army with 20 tanks with only 2 of the tanks firing vs vipers because Zerg just put down 8 blinding clouds with 4 vipers... And before you begin to nitpick what i just said, what i just stated above is with the tanks pre-spread apart over almost 1.5 screen lengths. By that time you should always have a viking squad out. Just keep scanning and always leave some tanks unsieged. With Thor support you should still trade cost efficiently against roach hydra. See Strelok. I'm not saying Vipers aren't good against tanks, they are decent, but they aren't game breaking the way swarm hosts are. You can prepare for vipers. | ||
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
On August 13 2013 08:52 Terranist wrote: if they wanted to make mech better why would they buff the zerg unit that stops mech completely? They want mech to work for TvP, Thus buffing the viper doesnt affect TvP | ||
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
On August 13 2013 08:55 Green_25 wrote: Vipers don't 'stop' mech. They shut down early pushes, but as long as you produce vikings and spread your tanks vipers really aren't that scary as a mech player. Swarmhosts are the problem. As well as mass muta tech switches. Its like PvZ, except mech is even less mobile. you know viper is hive tech do you? | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On August 13 2013 07:38 SarcasmMonster wrote: The only thing left for this thread is for Avilo to show up I'm already here! And already as confused as the rest of the fanbase why they ever claim to recognize mech needs buffs but then in the very same sentences or interviews or posts state that they are going to make it infinitely worse...-_- | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On August 13 2013 08:55 Green_25 wrote: Vipers don't 'stop' mech. They shut down early pushes, but as long as you produce vikings and spread your tanks vipers really aren't that scary as a mech player. Swarmhosts are the problem. As well as mass muta tech switches. Its like PvZ, except mech is even less mobile. Swarmhosts are not a problem. Swarmhosts just force tanks which than deny the locusts from doing any damage at all if properly positioned. Tanks can even slowly siege forward against swarmhosts. Well, then the Vipers come in, put down a few blinding clouds and all the tanks get overrun by locusts. Or similar things can happen when you think you have enough Tanks against roach/hydra... vipers come in and drop blinding clouds, suddenly everything is dead with the zerg losing hardly anything. Vipers are THE problem. Similarily to ZvP, they may turn out OK in roach/hydra compositions because those units suck balls and Vipers being superduperawesome balances that out. But if used with any reasonably strong ground unit like ultralisks or swarmhosts against any form of bigger Tankplay (also in bio/tank with something like WoL 3factory style) they just rofl over whole armies. | ||
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LittleRedBoy
United States229 Posts
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On August 13 2013 09:02 Green_25 wrote: By that time you should always have a viking squad out. Just keep scanning and always leave some tanks unsieged. With Thor support you should still trade cost efficiently against roach hydra. See Strelok. I'm not saying Vipers aren't good against tanks, they are decent, but they aren't game breaking the way swarm hosts are. You can prepare for vipers. You must have never played any high level mech vs Zerg then. Because blinding cloud can be game breaking against mech, even if you know they have the vipers. You can prepare for vipers and still be in a situation to lose the game if blinding clouds go down on your army. VS Swarmhosts, if you prepare with siege tank accumulation and then accumulating ravens, you can beat swarmhosts, despite it forcing the game to go on for another half an hour. And don't get me wrong. Obviously combining armory upgrades will make mech stronger in terms of having vikings with mech...but mech does not need to be stronger against Zerg honestly, it needs to be stronger against Protoss right now, in combination with the tempest/immortal being toned down vs Terran mech and the siege tank being buffed vs Protoss. | ||
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