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Yoshirou_Iba
Paraguay37 Posts
Whatever the logic behind this is, they smoked some heavy shit before making this public, lol make so little sense makes me feel ashamed on their behalf edit- I mean, one would believe they realize the reason zerg dont use vipers is because they hard counter mech and T never goes mech ever anymore, why would you get vipers then? | ||
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
On August 13 2013 07:56 BronzeKnee wrote: I never watched BW, but my guess is that I would not have like Spider Mines or Scarabs if they were very random. My guess is that Spider Mines were used differently though, because Tanks had a role in the game. It is a lot easier to predict the damage done by Widow Mines protecting Tanks than those that are burrowed and unburrowed quickly supporting a fast moving Bio force. If Widow Mines were such a coin flip unit why is innovation so strong TvZ? It's like there's skill in the matchup or something. Anyway, Mr Kim isn't nerfing terran or buffing Protoss so I am comfortable with this. | ||
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maXX_CZ
Czech Republic19 Posts
Siege except TvT is used only for defensive purposes. Cause it takes half a year to actually reach siege mode. It would be nice to see it at least in TvZ (in TvP it is like dream since WoL honestly). Widow mines are fine, but i would like to see more tanks. Viper buff.... hmm they really are useless after spawn... still think it is maybe too strong? Def great buff vs mech again lol. On the other hand, whatever you buff it will be good vs T mech, cuase its weak as fuck (as it was promised during WoL mech should be solid strat in HotS... weeell...). Overall best buff seems to be OS speed, simple and usefull. | ||
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halfaspider
United States31 Posts
On August 13 2013 08:02 Prog455 wrote: As a Terran i am very disappointed to see Blizzard merging air and mech attack upgrade again. The two biggest problems with Terran mech right now, is that it is very weak to air and the fact that a Protoss army can basicly a-move into Siege tanks and still win. But while a buff to mech units would be very nice, the last thing we want to see if more Sky Terran transitions. If i wanted a-move with a Deathball i would have played Protoss. I would really like to see Blizzard buff Thor anti-air, bring back Siege upgrade and buff Siege Tank damage and last but not least buff Hydralisk hp to make up for Siege Tank buff. I don't see any Zerg players dominating and i doubt that a Hydralisk buff would break any match-ups. EDIT: Have you watched WCS at all? I love how terran players seem to think protoss just a-move to victory all day that being said, pretty good suggestions for terran mech, I think | ||
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Aveng3r
United States2411 Posts
dude above me: there is some truth to that statement. not all the time, but youre naive to think that protoss doesnt have it easier than mech terran in a battle | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
On August 13 2013 08:04 iaguz wrote: If Widow Mines were such a coin flip unit why is innovation so strong TvZ? It's like there's skill in the matchup or something. Anyway, Mr Kim isn't nerfing terran or buffing Protoss so I am comfortable with this. Inca made a GSL finals flipping coins that his opponent wouldn't have detection... some players are just really good with gimmicky units. I didn't mean to say that they require no skill. They do. However, there is an element beyond the players control to them and I think that is bad. That's why I prefer watching Siege Tanks. | ||
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On August 13 2013 07:56 BronzeKnee wrote: I never watched BW, but my guess is that I would not have like Spider Mines or Scarabs if they were very random. My guess is that Spider Mines were used differently though, because Tanks had a role in the game. It is a lot easier to predict the damage done by Widow Mines protecting Tanks than those that are burrow and unburrowed quickly supporting a fast moving Bio force. Spider mines and scarabs AI were a bit weird, probably due to the original Starcraft engine. They tend to be unpredictable. Spider mines are useful for defending your tank line, but sometimes they can do more harm than good, depending on how the mine drags. You can never predict how well mine drag will work until it happens. The mines were also cloaked like Widow mines so it's just as easy to accidentally walk through a mine field with your army. Scarab AI is even more volatile. Sometimes a scarab will "dud" meaning it does zero damage. It usually happens when something obstructs its path. For example, if you are targeting a worker and another worker blocks the scarab, often times the scarab is wasted 15 minerals. Sometimes a singe Reaver can clear an entire mineral line. Other times it does absolutely nothing. In general, the effectiveness of scarabs can be unpredictable. I would say most BW fans are also big fans of the Spider mine and scarabs. | ||
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Blisse
Canada3710 Posts
Something should exist in the transition up to Ultralisks. Blinding Cloud, or even a kind of blinding Fungal would go a long way in allowing Zergs to actually attack an area with so many Widows Mines. There's just no way in the current game to get Hydralisks out like in Brood War to deflect WM since an Hydralisk investment is going to instantly die to MMM, and Mutalisks get shot. With the first change you might hold 2-3 Zerglings in your Mutalisks control group and hope the WM activates on the Zerglings when you attack them, so the splash isn't as dangerous when you attempt to defuse mines. I don't know, but I don't like the state of ZvT where you keep trying to get Banelings to explode on top of WM while running your Zerglings past. Once more people manually target using their WM, that strategy's not going to work, and it's not really working now.. just theorycrafting. We'll see whether instant Blinding Clouds will help a bit in deflecting assaults, but I really feel it's just that entire Lair->Infestation Pit->Hive area that needs something rather than right after Hive. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On August 13 2013 07:55 Zealously wrote: People like to use "Race X or Y doesn't have any bonjwas" or "Race X or Y doesn't win tournaments" as evidence that race X or Y is underpowered, but that's a stupid way to measure balance. There were six Protoss players in the Top 8 of WCS EU, for example - the fact that they didn't happen to win 5 more tournaments over the last few months doesn't make the race underpowered. In a hypothetical scenario, a tournament has 24 Protoss players, 4 Zerg and 4 Terrans, but the finals still end up being TvZ. Is Protoss underpowered? Of course not. I recall they discussed this on META (a show with only impartial people :p ) and the thinking was that it's more difficult for protoss to win based on solid, reactive play. That's why you see more protoss in proleague, but not as many in the later rounds of the GSL/OSL. I don't necessarily agree, but it's an interesting idea. | ||
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camilocraft
Colombia33 Posts
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Milkis
5003 Posts
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Mura19
43 Posts
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-KG-
Denmark1219 Posts
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CajunMan
United States823 Posts
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
Overseer speed buff is fine but a bit boring, it feels like a silly indirect way to fix ZvT with a very small nudge. Sure it helps a lot for overseer + muta and just using overseers to tank widow mine shots but i'd feel another change would be better. For example slightly rebuffing the infestor or just slightly nerfing the widow mine. Combining mech attack upgrades again is a terrible idea. Buffing mech is a great idea but please just use some mech specific buff then... (buff thor, buff tank etc.). This change doesn't work in a good way for gameplay imo, you'd just be getting hellbats in lategame TvP or boring compositions like banshee/hellbat/thor (which looks quite good in this change will go into effect). There are tons of ways to buff a strategy into viability but this is not really a good one, i'd rather had something really mech specific and more fun. Now 'airmech' might be viable but it's just not really too interesting imo, without the tank as a core unit such a style will just be boring units. Vipers with full energy is the worst idea of these bunch by far. First of all the viper is working fairly fine in ZvP doing this opens very strong timings with hydra/roach/viper which may hit a little too hard too soon then. Also it just hits mech again which counteracts a part of trying to buff that in the first place... The viper is not really that bad, it's seeing more and more use in ZvP where more and more zergs embrace them as replacement for corruptors. They are also quite fine against mech actually but that just doesn't see play. So not only does this change needlessly buff a unit that is already fine in some cases, it doesn't really help it see play in the cases where it's not. Vipers still wouldn't see play against biomine and they would even more become a liability against ht. Also this change is about as ugly as it gets from a design point of view, why do you give a unit who has an ability to gain energy full energy at start? you're removing the fun use of that ability... Vipers could use some change to make them better against other compositions, for example change blinding cloud to affect spellcasting too. Blinding cloud would be a fine play against widow mines then and there would be an interesting tension between vipers and ht's. There are many different options to pursue here but some sort of change to make them better against a wider array of compositions is more interesting than just some general buff.. | ||
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Prog455
Denmark970 Posts
On August 13 2013 08:20 camilocraft wrote: how about mines on binding could do not shoot. The problem with the widow mine for me as a Fan is that mines generate a Board Control that is impossible to break in a cost efficient way. I don't see many weakness on a mine field. It shoot aoe, it shoot air, they are cloaked, so the weakness is the reload time? That they cannot move to attack? Well the mines are fast as stim marines (well it appears) burrow almost instantly, and have range. There are some post that can help me understand why this unit is balanced on TvZ? Thanks in advance Ever since the introduction of Widow Mines i always thought it to be a bandage unit. The only reason that Terran need Widow Mines is because Tanks are too weak against ground units, and Thors are too weak against air. If Thors and Tanks both got buffed we wouldn't need Widow Mines as much. Tanks are much more entertaining units because they are obvious drawbacks - Widow Mines on the other hand, have, as you just mentioned, almost no drawbacks that does not already apply to Tanks. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12056 Posts
On August 13 2013 07:47 paddyz wrote: Why are Terran and Zerg being Buffed when its toss that are not winning any tournaments?, toss buff? WCS EU? :p | ||
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Laryleprakon
New Zealand9496 Posts
More mech the better ^_^ | ||
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igay
Australia1178 Posts
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