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On August 13 2013 02:14 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 02:12 Crytash wrote:On August 13 2013 01:59 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:57 nkr wrote:On August 13 2013 01:50 Crytash wrote:On August 13 2013 01:34 Eury wrote:On August 13 2013 01:24 Crytash wrote:On August 13 2013 01:09 Eury wrote:
People should stop focusing so much on moba games and what numbers they are getting, and instead worry about our own community and game. If I run a 3 star restaurant I don't look at what the guys over at McDonalds are doing even though they are much popular. This is on so many level wrong and insulting, that i am not sure if you troll or realy think that way. What are you talking about? Go troll someone else. I will not talk about the complexity difference of a team game vs single player game. You seem confused Crytash Yeah, I am not really sure what he is talking about. I think Eury insulted...someone? I am not sure who, though. Comparing Dota 2 with MC Donalds (as in cheap food, bad working envrioment etc. pp.) is a clear insult to a whole community. All right, clearly you read into that to much, he didn't want to shit on that community. He was pointing out that it had high sales numbers, like Dota 2, but that the other estaurant shouldn't pay attention to their sales numbers and just focus on themselves.
I feel that the hipster/vegan metaphor would fit that as well, wouldn't it? And why is the Sc2 the "high class" restaurant and not just any restaurant?
This is not going anywhere for you, just saying.
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On August 13 2013 02:12 Crytash wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:59 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:57 nkr wrote:On August 13 2013 01:50 Crytash wrote:On August 13 2013 01:34 Eury wrote:On August 13 2013 01:24 Crytash wrote:On August 13 2013 01:09 Eury wrote:
People should stop focusing so much on moba games and what numbers they are getting, and instead worry about our own community and game. If I run a 3 star restaurant I don't look at what the guys over at McDonalds are doing even though they are much popular. This is on so many level wrong and insulting, that i am not sure if you troll or realy think that way. What are you talking about? Go troll someone else. I will not talk about the complexity difference of a team game vs single player game. You seem confused Crytash Yeah, I am not really sure what he is talking about. I think Eury insulted...someone? I am not sure who, though. Comparing Dota 2 with MC Donalds (as in cheap food, bad working envrioment etc. pp.) is a clear insult to a whole community.
Or you just don't like McDonalds... Why are you insulting them ? Apologize now !
Turns out the world didn't end on 11th of August, as it was predicted by some big eSports figures.
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United States33584 Posts
eh, it's possible to feel pride/elitism over pretty much ANYTHING, all analogies fit 
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On August 12 2013 22:53 digmouse wrote:
Pretty decent numbers considering TI3 was going on.
SC2 players don't care about casual-dota as the poll showed. 
Comparing Dota 2 with MC Donalds (as in cheap food, bad working envrioment etc. pp.) is a clear insult to a whole community.
I bet 85% of the community haven't been to a McDonalds in 10years. Its not like were like these american fatasses, who eat this fastfood shit. :D
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Eury didn't insult anyone. Basically Crytash is claiming that SC2 is 30% less popular than it was last year, which strikes me as complete rubbish. You would really need an actuary to look at and crunch all the different statistics:
What % of SC2 players:
watch DOTA2
would watch DOTA2 over SC2
would not watch a PvP final
would not watch a Korean vs Korean final
are fans of Grubby
would not watch the finals if Grubby were not in it
are motivated to watch a tournament by the amount of prize $ given out
like husky or don't like husky
will switch to TI3 if there are sound issues with SC2 *cough cough ahem*
are 50/50 on DOTA2 and SC2 and will watch both tournies
are more interested in TI3 more than SC2
edit: what % don't like WCS
what % only watch the GSL
what % only watch European players
what % only watch NA players
what % of fans live in what timezone
total unique viewers
and on and on and on
what % of DOTA 2 players:
only signed on for the weekend to watch TI3
decided to check out SC2 while on their comps in tourney-watching mode
decided they hate SC2
decided they like SC2
decided to tell a friend about SC2
own SC2 in the first place
had never heard of SC2 before
are going to stop watching the TI3 at any point due to teams losing/production/hours of day or night/to make a hotpocket
are not interested in SC2 more than DOTA2
edit: what % will only watch a MOBA
what % will only play a MOBA
what % of fans are located in what timezones
what % of fans are unhappy with a current patch
what % of fans didn't watch because their other 4+ friends weren't around to watch it with
what % will watch TI3 alone
total unique viewers
and on and on and on
The fact is we just don't have enough of these metrics to really point at what is going on here. All I know is that as long as 78k people care enough about WCS EU to poke their heads in and see what's up, we're doing just fine.
Let's face it, these were only Ro8's. These weren't Ro32's with Innovation, Maru, Flash, Soulkey, and Rain flown in. Imagine the kind of numbers an event like that would garner, especially if hyped beforehand and broadcasted at a good time for the US and Europe to watch simultaneously.
Poll: Do you think we have enough information to determine if SC2 is dying?No (17) 52% Yes (14) 42% Maybe (2) 6% 33 total votes Your vote: Do you think we have enough information to determine if SC2 is dying? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Maybe
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can we please make the distinction between "SC2 eSports profitability" and the amount of money Blizzard makes from developing and selling SC2?
please?
the real question here is, is SC2 bringing enough cash to Blizzard to warrant its continued support and development as a "AAA" title.
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On August 12 2013 23:09 USvBleakill wrote:
Another example of Foreigners > Highest level of play in terms of viewership.
I think if SC2 wants to genereate as much viewers as possible they have to make EU foreigner exclusive. Maybe, because Korean WCS is way harder they could just cut WCS NA (besides 1 or 2 players the NA scene is just loughable) and put this money to korea to balance the higher skill requirments.
Yeah lets kill the NA, SEA and China scenes completely.
Sorry but this comment made me laugh, it's so wrong on so many levels.
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Good work making that tracker. I am relieved to know that SC2 is still quite big in the esports industry!
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It was an ok event. I watched EU more because it had Naniwa and grubby and MMA, 3 players I like to watch. And the finals was pretty good. But I watch more dota 2 than WCS. WCS just didn't seem special at all to me once players I liked got knocked out. Dota 2 on the other hand, I wasn't a fan of Navi or Alliance, but I loved the finals they were special and amazing. The numbers don't surpise me. WCS AM just simply isn't fun to watch for me. Day9 casting can only carry so much, but lets face it polt stomped JD it wasn't close. And considering WCS AM had like one foreign player(i hate using that term....) I just wasn't drawn into watching SC II. But I am honestly expecting closer to 100k at blizzcon. But the problem with SC II is that the personality of the champions is not interesting at all. Like I couldn't care less that Maru won, he is a great player, but it is meaningless to me. Now if Grubby had won, I would have been so excited and happy. My point is, maybe exclusive leagues, let koreans be in there league, and everyone else in there own leagues, and have a special Grand finals to find out who the best in the world is. But blizzard will not do this.
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On August 13 2013 02:19 BrieFanFiction wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Eury didn't insult anyone. Basically Crytash is claiming that SC2 is 30% less popular than it was last year, which strikes me as complete rubbish. You would really need an actuary to look at and crunch all the different statistics: What % of SC2 players: watch DOTA2 would watch DOTA2 over SC2 would not watch a PvP final would not watch a Korean vs Korean final are fans of Grubby would not watch the finals if Grubby were not in it are motivated to watch a tournament by the amount of prize $ given out like husky or don't like husky will switch to TI3 if there are sound issues with SC2 *cough cough ahem* are 50/50 on DOTA2 and SC2 and will watch both tournies are more interested in TI3 more than SC2 what % of DOTA 2 players: only signed on for the weekend to watch TI3 decided to check out SC2 while on their comps in tourney-watching mode decided they hate SC2 decided they like SC2 decided to tell a friend about SC2 own SC2 in the first place had never heard of SC2 before are going to stop watching the TI3 at any point due to teams losing/production/hours of day or night/to make a hotpocket are not interested in SC2 more than DOTA2 The fact is we just don't have enough of these metrics to really point at what is going on here. All I know is that as long as 78k people care enough about WCS EU to poke their heads in and see what's up, we're doing just fine. Let's face it, these were only Ro8's. These weren't Ro32's with Innovation, Maru, Flash, Soulkey, and Rain flown in. Imagine the kind of numbers an event like that would garner, especially if hyped beforehand and broadcasted at a good time for the US and Europe to watch simultaneously. Poll: Do you think we have enough information to determine if SC2 is dying?No (17) 52% Yes (14) 42% Maybe (2) 6% 33 total votes Your vote: Do you think we have enough information to determine if SC2 is dying? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Maybe
It's pretty obviously not dying. It still pulls in respectable numbers of viewers for a tournament scheduled against the biggest event of another game.
Shrinking? Possibly it's resizing because some of the early adopters aren't interested any more for whatever reason.
Not #1? Very clearly LoL is the undisputed #1 eSport in terms of viewership. LoL tournaments and personal streams dwarf any other game, esports or not.
Dying? Most certainly not.
There's definitely room for lots of games and the more the merrier. People should focus on watching what they enjoy and not watching (or making commentary) on what they don't. I enjoy SC2 so I watch it. Simple.
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On August 13 2013 02:18 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 02:12 Crytash wrote:On August 13 2013 01:59 Plansix wrote:On August 13 2013 01:57 nkr wrote:On August 13 2013 01:50 Crytash wrote:On August 13 2013 01:34 Eury wrote:On August 13 2013 01:24 Crytash wrote:On August 13 2013 01:09 Eury wrote:
People should stop focusing so much on moba games and what numbers they are getting, and instead worry about our own community and game. If I run a 3 star restaurant I don't look at what the guys over at McDonalds are doing even though they are much popular. This is on so many level wrong and insulting, that i am not sure if you troll or realy think that way. What are you talking about? Go troll someone else. I will not talk about the complexity difference of a team game vs single player game. You seem confused Crytash Yeah, I am not really sure what he is talking about. I think Eury insulted...someone? I am not sure who, though. Comparing Dota 2 with MC Donalds (as in cheap food, bad working envrioment etc. pp.) is a clear insult to a whole community. Or you just don't like McDonalds... Why are you insulting them ? Apologize now ! Turns out the world didn't end on 11th of August, as it was predicted by some big eSports figures.
you might not be familiar with this meme (it comes from HoN), but delete your lies and apologize! Anyone should have a good laugh :D
Anyway, with the recent strike for more money in the fast food industry in the USA + fast food IS not as good (by clear definitions) as food from a high class restaurant, i think Mc Donalds is not a great company to be compared with.
edit: No i don't "claim" it. I just stated the fact that the average number of viewers is 34%+ less than the last season. This is not debatable, there are facts. I don't think sc2 is dying either. Stop with the strawman argumentation.
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On August 13 2013 00:04 TeeTS wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 23:46 tshi wrote:On August 12 2013 23:42 Nymzee wrote:On August 12 2013 23:29 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Wcs eu finals 2012: 125k
Wcs eu finals 2013 season 1: 80k
Wcs eu finals 2013 season 2: 78k
Dropping? ... -_- Soe said it best: "the international is just better than every other tournament." Exactly, it's made by a professional company who knows what they're doing. They've hyped it up for a long time, and it's on a big stage. Also, it's once a year, so that automatically gives it more meaning. Here is a picture of their numbers: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IqzAkpy.jpg) the "once a year" part in the main thing here. You can't compare TI to those season finals. Blizzcon numbers will tale the story here. Because TI is the absolute highlight of the Dota2 year (as far as I understood) while this were regular season games. Considering the huge satuation of SC2 content this weekend, the number are pretty fine. We'll just have to wait for the 2013 WCS finals at Blizzcon to make a real comparison.
If Blizzcon hit 1 Million, I'm buying you anything you want.
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HeeroFX, your post is proof that this weekend was just too hectic to use as a litmus test for the health of SC2. There was just too much going on with too many overlapping communities, and too many variables within each community.
Also, losing a % of our fan-base to another game doesn't mean our game is "dying." It may be less popular, but before SC2 withers away to nothing SC3 will be out. Take into account the immense infrastructure in South Korea. Even if SC2 dies completely in NA, it will probably still exist there.
SC2 also has an absolute STRANGLEHOLD on the real-time strategy market.
The only thing that would genuinely, truly and for good kill SC2 and our community would be a newer, bigger, better, faster, free to play, amazingly updated and balanced, super-hard-core real-time strategy to replace it.
I think we're doing just fine. Yes we're losing some fanbase to MOBA's, but hell if you didn't know that was already happening then you've been living under a rock for the last year.
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United Kingdom12027 Posts
On August 12 2013 23:03 {ToT}ColmA wrote:
eu finals last season just had "better" players or lets just say more diverse players, that and the dota thing combined probably explain some of the viewer numbers for eu. surprisingly low numbers for wcs am. i think they did a great job and besides the nasl sound guy with some issues it was a great event and the players in the top8 were pretty good.
Not really, the time zone I think personally made it hard for a lot of Europeans to watch.
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well that's some pretty good numbers but i think we could aim higher next time.
a 90 K for europe would be nice.
300k at blizzcon would be freacking cool tho :p
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We need to end the era of everyone looking at the LoL numbers and TI3 numbers with envy and crying about how far behind SC2 is. It is counter productive and only puts the negative, fun sucking shadow over all of SC2. It won’t make the numbers bigger and won’t change anything. If we want to see SC2’s number rise, the best thing the community can do is to stop claiming or attempting to prove it is dying(I don’t know why people think this would do anything good). The endless balance discussions and viewership discussions need to end and we need to just be focused on the next event and how awesome it is.
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On August 13 2013 02:34 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 23:03 {ToT}ColmA wrote:
eu finals last season just had "better" players or lets just say more diverse players, that and the dota thing combined probably explain some of the viewer numbers for eu. surprisingly low numbers for wcs am. i think they did a great job and besides the nasl sound guy with some issues it was a great event and the players in the top8 were pretty good. Not really, the time zone I think personally made it hard for a lot of Europeans to watch.
To be fair the timezone made EU hard for me to watch. I missed most of day 1 and only caught the finals of day 2.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On August 13 2013 01:59 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:57 nkr wrote:On August 13 2013 01:50 Crytash wrote:On August 13 2013 01:34 Eury wrote:On August 13 2013 01:24 Crytash wrote:On August 13 2013 01:09 Eury wrote:
People should stop focusing so much on moba games and what numbers they are getting, and instead worry about our own community and game. If I run a 3 star restaurant I don't look at what the guys over at McDonalds are doing even though they are much popular. This is on so many level wrong and insulting, that i am not sure if you troll or realy think that way. What are you talking about? Go troll someone else. I will not talk about the complexity difference of a team game vs single player game. You seem confused Crytash Yeah, I am not really sure what he is talking about. I think Eury insulted...someone? I am not sure who, though.
My guess is he felt insulted because McDonalds was the moba games in their example(I'm presuming here).
edit: wow, didn't realize how long I had the reply for XD
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Thank you for making this thread.
To be honest these numbers are exactly what should have been expected. I think I predicted EU still hitting around 100k so I was roughly 20k off (which is a LOT) and I didn't expect the peak to drop off THAT much.
Competing with TI3 and being victim to korean over saturation means that these numbers are about what we can expect.
MY HOPE is that Season 3 we aren't competing with TI3 (nailed it) and that NASL/ESL production as well as maybe better foreign representation in EU (come on guys we are counting on you!) we can see these numbers go significantly up.
Remember this was the NASL's first handling of a WCS finals (but really an offline production on this scale since their last NASL final?) they have a LOT of room to grow!
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On August 13 2013 01:05 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:02 wingless666 wrote:On August 12 2013 23:46 tshi wrote:On August 12 2013 23:42 Nymzee wrote:On August 12 2013 23:29 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
Wcs eu finals 2012: 125k
Wcs eu finals 2013 season 1: 80k
Wcs eu finals 2013 season 2: 78k
Dropping? ... -_- Soe said it best: "the international is just better than every other tournament." Exactly, it's made by a professional company who knows what they're doing. They've hyped it up for a long time, and it's on a big stage. Also, it's once a year, so that automatically gives it more meaning. Here is a picture of their numbers: I think you forgot the russian streams :D . But btt : Hey isnt it great that so many people like to watch e-sports ?! I think the numbers are great for both events (wcs / ti3). Lets just celebrate the greatness of esports. Yeah SC2 is not the most watched esport anymore. But so what .. ? As long as esports grows as a whole, everyone will profit in the end. Its was a great weekend, with great games, from great athletes, and with nearly no sleep for me, but i am happy. And i hope you all will be, too. Yeah, once a year event that has been hyped for 6 months with tons of build up and in game hype compaired to the second season of a year league. Guess what? Dota 2 isn't putting up those numbers again for another 12 months.
well dota 2 aint gonna get 1 mil concurrent viewers again but most dota 2 lans get 100k + viewers.
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EPT
