EPTNo Starcraft 2 at MLG Columbus (so far) - Page 44
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Integra
Sweden5626 Posts
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On August 09 2013 12:57 J1.au wrote: SC2 has been so badly mismanaged, it's sad. I'm not even a fan of the game and this news depresses me. True. Blizzard are just greedy as fuck and want to control everything. That's why we also don't have a good UMS (SC2's custom map) system yet. Once Blizzard let us have more control and freedom, then SC2 will become better. Currently Blizzard act like they're a mayor and want to do every possible work in town. Sorry but you can't perform well everywhere at once. Edit: I've recently seen a CS related picture that goes along "Graphics can give you a few months fun, gameplay lasts forever". Something like this. Basically, we don't need more shiny stuff. Time to focus on gameplay. Games like CS, D2, BW and WC3 had exactly this, and that's why they live so long. Oh, and I haven't bought HotS for the same reason. | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eUaZdrp.png) Picture tells the tales, even if you omit dota 2 due to international. SC2 has low entertainment value, therefore fewer viewers and less sponsors. Its only up to Blizzard if they want the game to be succesful. They have to do something asap. 1. Fire Dustin Browder and David Kim. 2. Hire new team and redesign SC2's multiplayer. The best candidates are people who make best maps and who have better understanding of what community/viewer needs. And remember: action is always better than noaction User was warned for this post | ||
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askmc70
United States722 Posts
On August 09 2013 14:22 saddaromma wrote: Picture tells the tales, even if you omit dota 2 due to international. SC2 has low entertainment value, therefore fewer viewers and less sponsors. Its only up to Blizzard if they want the game to be succesful. They have to do something asap. 1. Fire Dustin Browder and David Kim. 2. Hire new team and redesign SC2's multiplayer. The best candidates are people who make best maps and who have better understanding of what community/viewer needs. firing dustin and david has been listed several times. Blizzard will do nothing to change this because they dont care and are reeling in the money from other games they have made. Things wont really change until starcraft 3 if there is one. | ||
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scCassius
United States254 Posts
On August 09 2013 14:22 saddaromma wrote: Picture tells the tales, even if you omit dota 2 due to international. SC2 has low entertainment value, therefore fewer viewers and less sponsors. Its only up to Blizzard if they want the game to be succesful. They have to do something asap. 1. Fire Dustin Browder and David Kim. 2. Hire new team and redesign SC2's multiplayer. The best candidates are people who make best maps and who have better understanding of what community/viewer needs. And remember: action is always better than noaction Good job. You posted when there is no SC2 tournament going on. Try again when any WCS is going on and SC2 will most likely be 3rd. | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
On August 09 2013 14:25 askmc70 wrote: firing dustin and david has been listed several times. Blizzard will do nothing to change this because they dont care and are reeling in the money from other games they have made. Things wont really change until starcraft 3 if there is one. I hope you know how diablo 3 turned out. Eventhough Jay Wilson said he needs to move on, I think he left because of community's outrage. Our community is passive and pretend everything is ok, since 'important' people of sc2 remain silent. And whenever someone tells something in public (Destiny) he will get flamed and laughed at. Artosis hints here and there that game has problems but can't say it directly. We can remain this way until LotV and get same shit, or we can act. Send open letter to blizzard via twitter, facebook, TL and battle.net. Make an outrage and announce boycott. We have so much power and yet we dont use it, like in some dictatorship country. | ||
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Erik.TheRed
United States1655 Posts
On August 09 2013 14:22 saddaromma wrote: Picture tells the tales, even if you omit dota 2 due to international. SC2 has low entertainment value, therefore fewer viewers and less sponsors. Its only up to Blizzard if they want the game to be succesful. They have to do something asap. 1. Fire Dustin Browder and David Kim. 2. Hire new team and redesign SC2's multiplayer. The best candidates are people who make best maps and who have better understanding of what community/viewer needs. And remember: action is always better than noaction Holy fuck when will these crap-quality posts stop coming in? You realize that there are probably a LOT of SC2 fans watching TI3 right now? There isn't ANY SC2 tournament going on and not a ton of big people streaming either. Please try and use a little common sense before posting a random screenshot and using it as the backbone of your ludicrous argument. Also... Low entertainment value? Did you watch any of WCS this week? There were a bunch of great games, why don't you watch Grubby vs Hasuobs if you don't believe me. Edit: Of course SC2 isn't a perfect game, but how does demanding that Dustin Browder and David Kim get fired seem like a reasonable/realistic argument and does it really solve any of the current problems? Blizzard is more than just 2 people and AFAIK the game balance is doing fairly well (Kim's main job) and the game design is still being tweaked and developed for the future (LOTV is in development). | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
On August 09 2013 14:30 scCassius wrote: Good job. You posted when there is no SC2 tournament going on. Try again when any WCS is going on and SC2 will most likely be 3rd. When wcs going on its even more pathetic. Some LoL guy, like oddone or froggen playing casual soloQ gets more viewers than whole wcs tournament. | ||
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
On August 09 2013 14:35 Erik.TheRed wrote: Holy fuck when will these crap-quality posts stop coming in? You realize that there are probably a LOT of SC2 fans watching TI3 right now? There isn't ANY SC2 tournament going on and not a ton of big people streaming either. Please try and use a little common sense before posting a random screenshot and using it as the backbone of your ludicrous argument. Also... Low entertainment value? Did you watch any of WCS this week? There were a bunch of great games, why don't you watch Grubby vs Hasuobs if you don't believe me. Edit: Of course SC2 isn't a perfect game, but how does demanding that Dustin Browder and David Kim get fired seem like a reasonable/realistic argument and does it really solve any of the current problems? Blizzard is more than just 2 people and AFAIK the game balance is doing fairly well (Kim's main job) and the game design is still being tweaked and developed for the future (LOTV is in development). Hate to be that guy, buttt Is there any dota 2 tournament going on right now? ? ? | ||
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Erik.TheRed
United States1655 Posts
On August 09 2013 14:41 XXXSmOke wrote: Hate to be that guy, buttt Is there any dota 2 tournament going on right now? ? ? Nope, even better. it's just 2GD and some guy in a funny suit shouting at a live audience. | ||
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packrat386
United States5077 Posts
On August 09 2013 14:41 XXXSmOke wrote: Hate to be that guy, buttt Is there any dota 2 tournament going on right now? ? ? In case this post is serious. The International 3 is a big dota tournament. | ||
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
Epic fail My bad  | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
On August 09 2013 14:35 Erik.TheRed wrote: Holy fuck when will these crap-quality posts stop coming in? You realize that there are probably a LOT of SC2 fans watching TI3 right now? There isn't ANY SC2 tournament going on and not a ton of big people streaming either. Please try and use a little common sense before posting a random screenshot and using it as the backbone of your ludicrous argument. Also... Low entertainment value? Did you watch any of WCS this week? There were a bunch of great games, why don't you watch Grubby vs Hasuobs if you don't believe me. Edit: Of course SC2 isn't a perfect game, but how does demanding that Dustin Browder and David Kim get fired seem like a reasonable/realistic argument and does it really solve any of the current problems? Blizzard is more than just 2 people and AFAIK the game balance is doing fairly well (Kim's main job) and the game design is still being tweaked and developed for the future (LOTV is in development). is that what wanted from sc2 when it was announced, pathetic 4k viewers when no tournaments are going on? If players are retiring, teams disbanding, viewership is falling and tournaments are shutting down you can get general idea that scene is declining. Or you can keep on lying to yourself that everything is ok. DB and DK did a pretty bad job, remember bl/infestors, warhounds, helbats? All their changes are temporal bandages until the game is dumbed down to one-dimensional strategies. | ||
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packrat386
United States5077 Posts
On August 09 2013 14:47 saddaromma wrote: is that what wanted from sc2 when it was announced, pathetic 4k viewers when no tournaments are going on? If players are retiring, teams disbanding, viewership is falling and tournaments are shutting down you can get general idea that scene is declining. Or you can keep on lying to yourself that everything is ok. DB and DK did a pretty bad job, remember bl/infestors, warhounds, helbats? All their changes are temporal bandages until the game is dumbed down to one-dimensional strategies. WCS is huge, plenty of players still making some money streaming, lots of other content. I don't see any cause for alarm. | ||
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Gonzo103
Germany220 Posts
I love SC2 it´s a great game. It´s challenging and hard to play. Hands down best RTS out there. I also love to watch SC2 it´s interesting to see the Metagame unfold in a best of 3 or best of 5 series. BUT there are really few games where i feel truly truly excited through out the hole game. Games in which i can´t believe what is happening on the screen where i really feel that i will never reach that skill. For sure i never will reach the skill but it is about the feeling while watching. I think SC2 is not the best spectator sport. The action is concentrated on very few moments through out the game and they end most likely with a gg on on side. I know what was leading to the gg because i watch a fuck ton of sc2 but if i am not that kind of a fan i will not know what was leading to that gg! Don´t get me wrong there are also a lot of very intense games with back and forward action - see the grubby vs. hasu obs game. But that games are rare and kind of match up specific. The last few days i was watching also a bit of TI3 and i know nothing about this game besides the very Basics. I can´t even see which spell is coming from which hero or what the spell does but i see the green Bars and see a handful of Heros dying. This is happening over 30 or 40 minutes with back and forward action, and i can feel the excitement. Watched the game from Teamliquid a few minutes ago. I am still on adrenalin. Something very rare when i watch SC2. So i think SC2 is sometimes not as exciting to watch then other games. Is this important? Kind of! Is SC2 a bad game? Of course not! There are a lot of Sports out there not so exciting to watch and there are still played professionally. | ||
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Patate
Canada441 Posts
On August 09 2013 14:50 packrat386 wrote: WCS is huge, plenty of players still making some money streaming, lots of other content. I don't see any cause for alarm. You sir are in denial. As I'm writting this, the biggest featured sc2 streamer gets less than 1k viewer ( dragon at 955). The biggest LoL streamer atm is TSM's mid laner with almost 8000 viewers. This is considerably low, especially since TI3 is going on, which is a moba (LoL's direct competition).Most of the time, you will see Phantomlord, or Dyrus, or Wingsofdeathx with around 20k viewers. Every weekend (friday-saturday-sunday) LCS EU and then LCS NA get up to 130k viewers.. EVERY DAY THAT THEY'RE ON. That is to say just how much sc2 streams are empty. I hear people talking about maps.. truth of the matter is, maps barely make a difference in this game. Considering a 200 food army can get through a tiny passage just as fast as they can move on an open field, the only aspect of the map that is important is the rush distance, and the expands set-up. It will take a lot more than that to actually fix the game and make it watchable. First of all, the macro part of the game is just too damn fast: in 10 blizzard minutes, a zerg gets maxed out... where does that leave time for small engagements and clever harassments (corsair killing overlords in BW, for example)? Then the armies move just too damn well: it is just so easy to push an advantage to a win. Take LoL for example ( i don't know DoTA2 enough but I do know its even more pronounced than in LoL), even if you Ace the enemy team in the early to mid game, the best advantage you can get (considering their nexus are not open to be destroyed), is 1 or 2 turrets, maybe a baron buff, or their blue-red buffs. Yes you get gold advantage, yes you get some free farm, but the game is not over for the enemy team.. comebacks happen very often. In BW, a battle win didn't mean a game win, it meant that you could destroy an expand, or secure another base (and base income saturation was better done too, but let's not go there). In SC2, if you win a fight, you can almost certainly snowball it into a win. There is something fundamentally wrong in a strategy game when a 20 minutes game is decided in a 30 seconds fight. | ||
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Gonzo103
Germany220 Posts
On August 09 2013 15:16 Patate wrote: You sir are in denial. As I'm writting this, the biggest featured sc2 streamer gets less than 1k viewer ( dragon at 955). The biggest LoL streamer atm is TSM's mid laner with almost 8000 viewers. This is considerably low, especially since TI3 is going on, which is a moba (LoL's direct competition).Most of the time, you will see Phantomlord, or Dyrus, or Wingsofdeathx with around 20k viewers. Every weekend (friday-saturday-sunday) LCS EU and then LCS NA get up to 130k viewers.. EVERY DAY THAT THEY'RE ON. That is to say just how much sc2 streams are empty. I hear people talking about maps.. truth of the matter is, maps barely make a difference in this game. Considering a 200 food army can get through a tiny passage just as fast as they can move on an open field, the only aspect of the map that is important is the rush distance, and the expands set-up. It will take a lot more than that to actually fix the game and make it watchable. First of all, the macro part of the game is just too damn fast: in 10 blizzard minutes, a zerg gets maxed out... where does that leave time for small engagements and clever harassments (corsair killing overlords in BW, for example)? Then the armies move just too damn well: it is just so easy to push an advantage to a win. Take LoL for example ( i don't know DoTA2 enough but I do know its even more pronounced than in LoL), even if you Ace the enemy team in the early to mid game, the best advantage you can get (considering their nexus are not open to be destroyed), is 1 or 2 turrets, maybe a baron buff, or their blue-red buffs. Yes you get gold advantage, yes you get some free farm, but the game is not over for the enemy team.. comebacks happen very often. In BW, a battle win didn't mean a game win, it meant that you could destroy an expand, or secure another base (and base income saturation was better done too, but let's not go there). In SC2, if you win a fight, you can almost certainly snowball it into a win. There is something fundamentally wrong in a strategy game when a 20 minutes game is decided in a 30 seconds fight. I remeber a lot of games where your statment is true on, but i also know a lot of games where it´s not true! There are a lot of games with back and forward action over a long period of time. They might be rare but they can happen. | ||
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Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
The only danger i suppose is that Blizzard pull out of WCS in the future and the bottom falls out of SC2. MLG cant really go wrong if they add DOTA2, i am watching it now Zenith v IG and it looks exciting. I haven't a clue what's going on to be honest but what i have noticed is the the 2 casters are superb (dont know who they are), they are fluid and really know how to add drama to the game | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
On August 09 2013 15:23 Gonzo103 wrote: I remeber a lot of games where your statment is true on, but i also know a lot of games where it´s not true! There are a lot of games with back and forward action over a long period of time. They might be rare but they can happen. Thats the problem, its rare, I'm not in denial, I admit that there some exceptionally good games in SC2 (Nestea vs sC). But if we want sc2 to be succesful, good games should happen far more often. PvP is so far only matchup I like to watch. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17486 Posts
On August 09 2013 15:16 Patate wrote: You sir are in denial. As I'm writting this, the biggest featured sc2 streamer gets less than 1k viewer ( dragon at 955). The biggest LoL streamer atm is TSM's mid laner with almost 8000 viewers. This is considerably low, especially since TI3 is going on, which is a moba (LoL's direct competition).Most of the time, you will see Phantomlord, or Dyrus, or Wingsofdeathx with around 20k viewers. Every weekend (friday-saturday-sunday) LCS EU and then LCS NA get up to 130k viewers.. EVERY DAY THAT THEY'RE ON. That is to say just how much sc2 streams are empty. MLG Columbus is a live event. Live events generate revenue from GATE RECEIPTS and PAY PER VIEW BUYS, not stream viewers. Neither of these revenue streams is large enough to generate a large enough profit for Sundance to waste his valuable time on SC2. North American SC2 live events have never been profitable and, as a result, fewer and fewer are occurring. Its as simple as that. On August 09 2013 15:31 Topdoller wrote: The only danger i suppose is that Blizzard pull out of WCS in the future and the bottom falls out of SC2. Good point, fortunately, WCS is locked in for 2013 and 2014. | ||
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