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On August 09 2013 11:45 Rhaegal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 11:12 ROOTheognis wrote:On August 09 2013 11:06 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 11:02 ROOTheognis wrote:On August 09 2013 10:52 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 09:36 emythrel wrote:
@incontrol's post SO SAY WE ALL!
Inc makes (as always) a great deal of sense. I sometimes wonder if the average age of the community were a tad higher that the fatalistic talk would be a lot less. I've been on this planet a good while now, and I've seen good times and bad times. The thing is that so long as there are people willing to put in the effort, the good times always return..... maybe not always the lofty heights we would like, but always to a pointyou can be happy with.
Having been professional musician my entire adult life (approaching 20 years now) I certainly have seen many ups and downs. SC2 is doing jus fine, even if its not the top dog anymore.As inc said, thats fine.... we dont need to be top dog, we just need to be in the race. how many pro players has mlg supported? you might think a lot, but i would argue the answer is 0. there are 0 players playing today, who wouldnt be playing if mlg didnt ever pick up sc2. hosting a big event for a weekend is a lot of fun, its great for the viewer, but with the prize pool to player number ratios, and the prize distribution being so top heavy, no one could go to an mlg relying on the payout. I'd disagree with this. Sure, MLG doesn't directly pay for a pro's salary or anything but they've given the opportunity for many pros to establish their name. Naniwa & Huk both won their first major tournaments here which of course lead them to more opportunities and making them more valuable for teams. Of course things are different now then they were back then but it was pretty big for many players. and where did that name help them? at EU events ;/. Those were just some examples I picked. Performing well at tournaments like MLG for a lot of players helps open up opportunities to joining higher profile teams which can send them to the EU events consistently. Suppy, for instance, joined EG right after his breakout performance at MLG Anaheim 2012. Did you know who he was before that MLG? With MLG gone, there's practically no offline chance for players to "prove" themselves. If a player is truly good, he will rise. Period. Simply attaining rank 1 NA with huge win/loss difference would make you stand out, but only Koreans can do that. There are so many online cups and qualifiers too. Foreigners simply aren't good enough.
He keeps saying this like it will become true if he keeps saying it. "If you work hard enough, you can become anything you want on the world."
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On August 09 2013 11:55 playa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 11:49 Plansix wrote:On August 09 2013 11:45 playa wrote:
I haven't read much of this thread, but... from my view, I gather this is a negotiation ploy to some extent. If your game doesn't provide the most viewers/revenue, yet you're the only one charging money for people to be able to play your game at their tournament, then you have 0 leverage and need a reality check.
I'd announce this now. Blizzard would start to wonder how they feel about their monopoly that is making people as eager to pick up playing their game (or getting involved in anyway) as they're eager to get STD's. Right now, chlamydia might be > SC 2.
Since Blizzard is probably more greedy than dumb, they realize some money is greater than no money... They will either start charging MLG less of a fee or they will remove the fee. Then, MLG can act like "we brought SC 2 back due to the public outcry. We love our fans!! Anything for you guys." You know... bs like that.
But honestly, as long as WCS resembles this, the fewer SC tournaments the better. Fuck this game. There aren't even local lans. All kinds of stupid fucking rules if you want to host anything SC related. Destroying any chance at growth worth being excited about.
At this point, I'd rather give up playing this game and just watch Korean pros go back to playing BW. SC 2 might be funner to play, but this game is horrible in comparison as a spectator's sport (only p vs p has an argument for being better imo).
Well super happy this guy told us how he feels, even though he didn't read the the thread. Because of people like you, no need to. All MLG/Blizzard propaganda bs, 24/7 from you. If I was Morhaimes wife, I'd swear he was cheating on me with you.
At least I read the thread, rather than just say a bunch of junk.
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On August 09 2013 11:57 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 11:45 Rhaegal wrote:On August 09 2013 11:12 ROOTheognis wrote:On August 09 2013 11:06 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 11:02 ROOTheognis wrote:On August 09 2013 10:52 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 09:36 emythrel wrote:
@incontrol's post SO SAY WE ALL!
Inc makes (as always) a great deal of sense. I sometimes wonder if the average age of the community were a tad higher that the fatalistic talk would be a lot less. I've been on this planet a good while now, and I've seen good times and bad times. The thing is that so long as there are people willing to put in the effort, the good times always return..... maybe not always the lofty heights we would like, but always to a pointyou can be happy with.
Having been professional musician my entire adult life (approaching 20 years now) I certainly have seen many ups and downs. SC2 is doing jus fine, even if its not the top dog anymore.As inc said, thats fine.... we dont need to be top dog, we just need to be in the race. how many pro players has mlg supported? you might think a lot, but i would argue the answer is 0. there are 0 players playing today, who wouldnt be playing if mlg didnt ever pick up sc2. hosting a big event for a weekend is a lot of fun, its great for the viewer, but with the prize pool to player number ratios, and the prize distribution being so top heavy, no one could go to an mlg relying on the payout. I'd disagree with this. Sure, MLG doesn't directly pay for a pro's salary or anything but they've given the opportunity for many pros to establish their name. Naniwa & Huk both won their first major tournaments here which of course lead them to more opportunities and making them more valuable for teams. Of course things are different now then they were back then but it was pretty big for many players. and where did that name help them? at EU events ;/. Those were just some examples I picked. Performing well at tournaments like MLG for a lot of players helps open up opportunities to joining higher profile teams which can send them to the EU events consistently. Suppy, for instance, joined EG right after his breakout performance at MLG Anaheim 2012. Did you know who he was before that MLG? With MLG gone, there's practically no offline chance for players to "prove" themselves. If a player is truly good, he will rise. Period. Simply attaining rank 1 NA with huge win/loss difference would make you stand out, but only Koreans can do that. There are so many online cups and qualifiers too. Foreigners simply aren't good enough. He keeps saying this like it will become true if he keeps saying it. "If you work hard enough, you can become anything you want on the world."
Well of course that's not true. Most people will never achieve anything of note-- that's the way the world is. But you can either bitch about, or actually try to attain your goals.
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no love lost, sc2 doesnt need mlg..
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On August 09 2013 08:02 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 07:57 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 07:47 GwSC wrote:On August 09 2013 07:43 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 07:25 Noocta wrote:On August 09 2013 07:22 Rhaegal wrote:
Is Dota 2 fun to watch/play?
I haven't tried it out, but I want something to fall back on just in case.
Wasn't a big fan of LoL at all. No denying, no penalty for death, huge mana pools for every champ, and free blink dagger at game start. You're asking that right when the Superbowl of dota is on air ? What are you waiting, just go watch it >< it's pretty boring to watch IMHO. The game is just stupid easy to play so it has that advantage over starcraft to attract new viewers. Unfortunately for starcraft, it's not exactly a game someone can just start playing. There are serious growing pains with it, despite the fact sc2 is infinitely easier than brood war. None of my RL friends play sc2 because there is too many things to do and it becomes chore to them vs a fun game. also dota 5.54 > *. I never got why people say this, SC2 isn't really hard at all to just pick up and quickly get to at least silver/gold league so that you have enough understanding to enjoy watching games. Even a lot of bronze games could probably get you to that point of understanding. it's not necessarily hard to learn, but undeniably hard for someone who has zero experience with RTS games previously. It was easy for me because i grew up playing brood war and wc3 religiously, but for someone with zero knowledge and zero mechanical skill, i'm not sure how you can say it wouldn't be hard for them to learn. dota isn't any easier for someone completely new to the genre either... and in pro games have a ton of dynamics you'll virtually never see in a casual pub game. Basically, anyone claiming SC2 is more difficult than Dota2 is clueless.
Actually, no, they aren't.
DOTA (and MOBAs in general) require much less in-game mechanics, multitasking and decision making (but are still ludicrously hard to play perfectly). What they do require is much more out-of-game knowledge (reflexes and micro are more important in MOBAs than in StarCraft also, as well as communication which isn't present in Starcraft at all). Things like which items to get, etc are essential to getting to any sort of level. Starcraft is mechanically hard to play initially, but conceptually relatively easy. If I tell you which units shoot up, which units detect, give you a picture of any race's tech tree (or you could play one custom game against the very easy AI) then if you are mechanically up to the task, the only thing you need to know is "Probes and Pylons, spend your money, use hotkeys". That can take you to Gold level AT LEAST.
That's why Starcraft is a far better spectator sport (with 1/10 of the players of LoL, Starcraft viewership peaks about almost as high), but far less casual friendly.
Mechanics takes playing games and it takes a long time to learn them. Learning which items to get doesn't take long at all (usually googling can give you the knowledge you need). It takes a long time to learn all the things you need to know though, which is why there's nobody that watches MOBAs but doesn't play them (there's plenty of Starcraft fans that don't play, including some that have never played).
TL;DR: Starcraft is harder to play in terms of in-game requirements, MOBAs are (much) harder to play in terms of other things (communication, learning about items, etc).
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On August 09 2013 11:21 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 11:13 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 09 2013 11:06 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 11:02 ROOTheognis wrote:On August 09 2013 10:52 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 09:36 emythrel wrote:
@incontrol's post SO SAY WE ALL!
Inc makes (as always) a great deal of sense. I sometimes wonder if the average age of the community were a tad higher that the fatalistic talk would be a lot less. I've been on this planet a good while now, and I've seen good times and bad times. The thing is that so long as there are people willing to put in the effort, the good times always return..... maybe not always the lofty heights we would like, but always to a pointyou can be happy with.
Having been professional musician my entire adult life (approaching 20 years now) I certainly have seen many ups and downs. SC2 is doing jus fine, even if its not the top dog anymore.As inc said, thats fine.... we dont need to be top dog, we just need to be in the race. how many pro players has mlg supported? you might think a lot, but i would argue the answer is 0. there are 0 players playing today, who wouldnt be playing if mlg didnt ever pick up sc2. hosting a big event for a weekend is a lot of fun, its great for the viewer, but with the prize pool to player number ratios, and the prize distribution being so top heavy, no one could go to an mlg relying on the payout. I'd disagree with this. Sure, MLG doesn't directly pay for a pro's salary or anything but they've given the opportunity for many pros to establish their name. Naniwa & Huk both won their first major tournaments here which of course lead them to more opportunities and making them more valuable for teams. Of course things are different now then they were back then but it was pretty big for many players. and where did that name help them? at EU events ;/. MLG paid for a lot of airplane trips for a lot of players to come to the US. How many Koreans had absolutely nothing from GSL, but got to go to MLG and became actual well known players? And considering all the invitationals that have happened in the last 3 years, winning an MLG or doing well in one meant a hell of a lot. You're pathetically delusional if you think the SC2 scene would be remotely the same without MLG. the korean scene currently has at least 200 players at the pro level. of them MLG paid maybe 10-20 flights to maybe 10 different people who wouldnt of otherwise been able to justify the cost, of those i can think of 1 player who actually might not be playing today (but thats not for certain). so if you want to call me pathetic and delusional because i dont believe that spending $1,000,000 is an effecient way to help DRG, polt huk and naniwa play sc2 for a living, i think we disagree on what supporting a scene means. Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 11:12 ROOTheognis wrote:On August 09 2013 11:06 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 11:02 ROOTheognis wrote:On August 09 2013 10:52 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 09:36 emythrel wrote:
@incontrol's post SO SAY WE ALL!
Inc makes (as always) a great deal of sense. I sometimes wonder if the average age of the community were a tad higher that the fatalistic talk would be a lot less. I've been on this planet a good while now, and I've seen good times and bad times. The thing is that so long as there are people willing to put in the effort, the good times always return..... maybe not always the lofty heights we would like, but always to a pointyou can be happy with.
Having been professional musician my entire adult life (approaching 20 years now) I certainly have seen many ups and downs. SC2 is doing jus fine, even if its not the top dog anymore.As inc said, thats fine.... we dont need to be top dog, we just need to be in the race. how many pro players has mlg supported? you might think a lot, but i would argue the answer is 0. there are 0 players playing today, who wouldnt be playing if mlg didnt ever pick up sc2. hosting a big event for a weekend is a lot of fun, its great for the viewer, but with the prize pool to player number ratios, and the prize distribution being so top heavy, no one could go to an mlg relying on the payout. I'd disagree with this. Sure, MLG doesn't directly pay for a pro's salary or anything but they've given the opportunity for many pros to establish their name. Naniwa & Huk both won their first major tournaments here which of course lead them to more opportunities and making them more valuable for teams. Of course things are different now then they were back then but it was pretty big for many players. and where did that name help them? at EU events ;/. Those were just some examples I picked. Performing well at tournaments like MLG for a lot of players helps open up opportunities to joining higher profile teams which can send them to the EU events consistently. Suppy, for instance, joined EG right after his breakout performance at MLG Anaheim 2012. Did you know who he was before that MLG? With MLG gone, there's practically no offline chance for players to "prove" themselves. but suppy isnt supported by sc2 or MLG, hes still a student who can afford to get by on bread crumbs from EG because hes not under pressure. he doesnt need a big pay out or a sustainable check, because hes not a full time pro. i get what your saying, that mlg put a lot of names in to the limelight, but i dont think you can say that instantly means mlg was a valuable support to starcraft. maybe i was hyperbolic to say they supported no one, but they certainly didnt set out with the goal of supporting a scene, and that shows.
Is your point that MLG didn't do enough for SC2? Do you have any concept of how much money they probably lost in their SC2 efforts lol.
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On August 09 2013 12:17 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 11:21 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 11:13 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 09 2013 11:06 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 11:02 ROOTheognis wrote:On August 09 2013 10:52 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 09:36 emythrel wrote:
@incontrol's post SO SAY WE ALL!
Inc makes (as always) a great deal of sense. I sometimes wonder if the average age of the community were a tad higher that the fatalistic talk would be a lot less. I've been on this planet a good while now, and I've seen good times and bad times. The thing is that so long as there are people willing to put in the effort, the good times always return..... maybe not always the lofty heights we would like, but always to a pointyou can be happy with.
Having been professional musician my entire adult life (approaching 20 years now) I certainly have seen many ups and downs. SC2 is doing jus fine, even if its not the top dog anymore.As inc said, thats fine.... we dont need to be top dog, we just need to be in the race. how many pro players has mlg supported? you might think a lot, but i would argue the answer is 0. there are 0 players playing today, who wouldnt be playing if mlg didnt ever pick up sc2. hosting a big event for a weekend is a lot of fun, its great for the viewer, but with the prize pool to player number ratios, and the prize distribution being so top heavy, no one could go to an mlg relying on the payout. I'd disagree with this. Sure, MLG doesn't directly pay for a pro's salary or anything but they've given the opportunity for many pros to establish their name. Naniwa & Huk both won their first major tournaments here which of course lead them to more opportunities and making them more valuable for teams. Of course things are different now then they were back then but it was pretty big for many players. and where did that name help them? at EU events ;/. MLG paid for a lot of airplane trips for a lot of players to come to the US. How many Koreans had absolutely nothing from GSL, but got to go to MLG and became actual well known players? And considering all the invitationals that have happened in the last 3 years, winning an MLG or doing well in one meant a hell of a lot. You're pathetically delusional if you think the SC2 scene would be remotely the same without MLG. the korean scene currently has at least 200 players at the pro level. of them MLG paid maybe 10-20 flights to maybe 10 different people who wouldnt of otherwise been able to justify the cost, of those i can think of 1 player who actually might not be playing today (but thats not for certain). so if you want to call me pathetic and delusional because i dont believe that spending $1,000,000 is an effecient way to help DRG, polt huk and naniwa play sc2 for a living, i think we disagree on what supporting a scene means. On August 09 2013 11:12 ROOTheognis wrote:On August 09 2013 11:06 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 11:02 ROOTheognis wrote:On August 09 2013 10:52 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 09:36 emythrel wrote:
@incontrol's post SO SAY WE ALL!
Inc makes (as always) a great deal of sense. I sometimes wonder if the average age of the community were a tad higher that the fatalistic talk would be a lot less. I've been on this planet a good while now, and I've seen good times and bad times. The thing is that so long as there are people willing to put in the effort, the good times always return..... maybe not always the lofty heights we would like, but always to a pointyou can be happy with.
Having been professional musician my entire adult life (approaching 20 years now) I certainly have seen many ups and downs. SC2 is doing jus fine, even if its not the top dog anymore.As inc said, thats fine.... we dont need to be top dog, we just need to be in the race. how many pro players has mlg supported? you might think a lot, but i would argue the answer is 0. there are 0 players playing today, who wouldnt be playing if mlg didnt ever pick up sc2. hosting a big event for a weekend is a lot of fun, its great for the viewer, but with the prize pool to player number ratios, and the prize distribution being so top heavy, no one could go to an mlg relying on the payout. I'd disagree with this. Sure, MLG doesn't directly pay for a pro's salary or anything but they've given the opportunity for many pros to establish their name. Naniwa & Huk both won their first major tournaments here which of course lead them to more opportunities and making them more valuable for teams. Of course things are different now then they were back then but it was pretty big for many players. and where did that name help them? at EU events ;/. Those were just some examples I picked. Performing well at tournaments like MLG for a lot of players helps open up opportunities to joining higher profile teams which can send them to the EU events consistently. Suppy, for instance, joined EG right after his breakout performance at MLG Anaheim 2012. Did you know who he was before that MLG? With MLG gone, there's practically no offline chance for players to "prove" themselves. but suppy isnt supported by sc2 or MLG, hes still a student who can afford to get by on bread crumbs from EG because hes not under pressure. he doesnt need a big pay out or a sustainable check, because hes not a full time pro. i get what your saying, that mlg put a lot of names in to the limelight, but i dont think you can say that instantly means mlg was a valuable support to starcraft. maybe i was hyperbolic to say they supported no one, but they certainly didnt set out with the goal of supporting a scene, and that shows. Is your point that MLG didn't do enough for SC2? Do you have any concept of how much money they probably lost in their SC2 efforts lol.
Please show us.
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I love you Geoff, but unfortunately I think by using yourself to comment on the state of the NA scene you're running the risk of misrepresenting what it is like in actuality.
I really do not want to make an uninformed assumption about how well you're being paid. But it seems like I have to in order to make any kind of point. By virtue of being the captain and long time member of what must be (?) the most profitable (?) team in the game, a regular host/caster of events, and a streamer who fares well in the viewership department, I don't think the fact that you're stable means much. Of course you are, you deserve to be after the years of hard work you've put in. It's everyone else that I really want to hear from.
I'm not talking about up and comers either. Allow yourself to look ahead maybe a year, or even less perhaps. With WCS being run how it is, stream numbers slowly declining, etc, I would think SC2 becoming a Top 3 or 5 game in terms of interest/viewership is actually a scary thought for some people. There's only so many times EG can put an up and comer under their wing like Suppy or Xenocider and offer them stability.
I want to know how stable players like Vibe, Machine, Neeb, Illusion, State, or Major feel. Do they have thoughts about where they might be in a year? Two years? Surely there's a difference here.
Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I am in fact! Maybe these guys are very stable and have no reason to believe they won't be anytime soon. The sponsors seem to be coming in still. Redbull is doing some amazing work. Root has their house. Lots of people moving to the Bay area.
All I'm trying to say, rather poorly I admit, is that the fact that you're stable doesn't say a whole lot about the real state of the NA scene in my opinion. You represent the NA scene well, some might say you're the face of it. But when it comes to stability/the future I just feel as though you're not representative of the majority.
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On August 09 2013 12:19 Strela wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 12:17 Doodsmack wrote:On August 09 2013 11:21 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 11:13 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 09 2013 11:06 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 11:02 ROOTheognis wrote:On August 09 2013 10:52 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 09:36 emythrel wrote:
@incontrol's post SO SAY WE ALL!
Inc makes (as always) a great deal of sense. I sometimes wonder if the average age of the community were a tad higher that the fatalistic talk would be a lot less. I've been on this planet a good while now, and I've seen good times and bad times. The thing is that so long as there are people willing to put in the effort, the good times always return..... maybe not always the lofty heights we would like, but always to a pointyou can be happy with.
Having been professional musician my entire adult life (approaching 20 years now) I certainly have seen many ups and downs. SC2 is doing jus fine, even if its not the top dog anymore.As inc said, thats fine.... we dont need to be top dog, we just need to be in the race. how many pro players has mlg supported? you might think a lot, but i would argue the answer is 0. there are 0 players playing today, who wouldnt be playing if mlg didnt ever pick up sc2. hosting a big event for a weekend is a lot of fun, its great for the viewer, but with the prize pool to player number ratios, and the prize distribution being so top heavy, no one could go to an mlg relying on the payout. I'd disagree with this. Sure, MLG doesn't directly pay for a pro's salary or anything but they've given the opportunity for many pros to establish their name. Naniwa & Huk both won their first major tournaments here which of course lead them to more opportunities and making them more valuable for teams. Of course things are different now then they were back then but it was pretty big for many players. and where did that name help them? at EU events ;/. MLG paid for a lot of airplane trips for a lot of players to come to the US. How many Koreans had absolutely nothing from GSL, but got to go to MLG and became actual well known players? And considering all the invitationals that have happened in the last 3 years, winning an MLG or doing well in one meant a hell of a lot. You're pathetically delusional if you think the SC2 scene would be remotely the same without MLG. the korean scene currently has at least 200 players at the pro level. of them MLG paid maybe 10-20 flights to maybe 10 different people who wouldnt of otherwise been able to justify the cost, of those i can think of 1 player who actually might not be playing today (but thats not for certain). so if you want to call me pathetic and delusional because i dont believe that spending $1,000,000 is an effecient way to help DRG, polt huk and naniwa play sc2 for a living, i think we disagree on what supporting a scene means. On August 09 2013 11:12 ROOTheognis wrote:On August 09 2013 11:06 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 11:02 ROOTheognis wrote:On August 09 2013 10:52 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 09:36 emythrel wrote:
@incontrol's post SO SAY WE ALL!
Inc makes (as always) a great deal of sense. I sometimes wonder if the average age of the community were a tad higher that the fatalistic talk would be a lot less. I've been on this planet a good while now, and I've seen good times and bad times. The thing is that so long as there are people willing to put in the effort, the good times always return..... maybe not always the lofty heights we would like, but always to a pointyou can be happy with.
Having been professional musician my entire adult life (approaching 20 years now) I certainly have seen many ups and downs. SC2 is doing jus fine, even if its not the top dog anymore.As inc said, thats fine.... we dont need to be top dog, we just need to be in the race. how many pro players has mlg supported? you might think a lot, but i would argue the answer is 0. there are 0 players playing today, who wouldnt be playing if mlg didnt ever pick up sc2. hosting a big event for a weekend is a lot of fun, its great for the viewer, but with the prize pool to player number ratios, and the prize distribution being so top heavy, no one could go to an mlg relying on the payout. I'd disagree with this. Sure, MLG doesn't directly pay for a pro's salary or anything but they've given the opportunity for many pros to establish their name. Naniwa & Huk both won their first major tournaments here which of course lead them to more opportunities and making them more valuable for teams. Of course things are different now then they were back then but it was pretty big for many players. and where did that name help them? at EU events ;/. Those were just some examples I picked. Performing well at tournaments like MLG for a lot of players helps open up opportunities to joining higher profile teams which can send them to the EU events consistently. Suppy, for instance, joined EG right after his breakout performance at MLG Anaheim 2012. Did you know who he was before that MLG? With MLG gone, there's practically no offline chance for players to "prove" themselves. but suppy isnt supported by sc2 or MLG, hes still a student who can afford to get by on bread crumbs from EG because hes not under pressure. he doesnt need a big pay out or a sustainable check, because hes not a full time pro. i get what your saying, that mlg put a lot of names in to the limelight, but i dont think you can say that instantly means mlg was a valuable support to starcraft. maybe i was hyperbolic to say they supported no one, but they certainly didnt set out with the goal of supporting a scene, and that shows. Is your point that MLG didn't do enough for SC2? Do you have any concept of how much money they probably lost in their SC2 efforts lol. Please show us.
You think 100k peak viewers (for like 30 mins tops) pays enough in ad revenue for MLG to make a profit?
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I havent enjoyed an MLG run tournament in a long time so no tears but still sucks, I dont think having less tournaments is necessarily the worst thing for starcraft. I feel like longer format tournaments are way more entertaining and the games are way better.
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SC2 has been so badly mismanaged, it's sad. I'm not even a fan of the game and this news depresses me.
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On August 09 2013 12:19 Strela wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 12:17 Doodsmack wrote:On August 09 2013 11:21 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 11:13 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 09 2013 11:06 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 11:02 ROOTheognis wrote:On August 09 2013 10:52 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 09:36 emythrel wrote:
@incontrol's post SO SAY WE ALL!
Inc makes (as always) a great deal of sense. I sometimes wonder if the average age of the community were a tad higher that the fatalistic talk would be a lot less. I've been on this planet a good while now, and I've seen good times and bad times. The thing is that so long as there are people willing to put in the effort, the good times always return..... maybe not always the lofty heights we would like, but always to a pointyou can be happy with.
Having been professional musician my entire adult life (approaching 20 years now) I certainly have seen many ups and downs. SC2 is doing jus fine, even if its not the top dog anymore.As inc said, thats fine.... we dont need to be top dog, we just need to be in the race. how many pro players has mlg supported? you might think a lot, but i would argue the answer is 0. there are 0 players playing today, who wouldnt be playing if mlg didnt ever pick up sc2. hosting a big event for a weekend is a lot of fun, its great for the viewer, but with the prize pool to player number ratios, and the prize distribution being so top heavy, no one could go to an mlg relying on the payout. I'd disagree with this. Sure, MLG doesn't directly pay for a pro's salary or anything but they've given the opportunity for many pros to establish their name. Naniwa & Huk both won their first major tournaments here which of course lead them to more opportunities and making them more valuable for teams. Of course things are different now then they were back then but it was pretty big for many players. and where did that name help them? at EU events ;/. MLG paid for a lot of airplane trips for a lot of players to come to the US. How many Koreans had absolutely nothing from GSL, but got to go to MLG and became actual well known players? And considering all the invitationals that have happened in the last 3 years, winning an MLG or doing well in one meant a hell of a lot. You're pathetically delusional if you think the SC2 scene would be remotely the same without MLG. the korean scene currently has at least 200 players at the pro level. of them MLG paid maybe 10-20 flights to maybe 10 different people who wouldnt of otherwise been able to justify the cost, of those i can think of 1 player who actually might not be playing today (but thats not for certain). so if you want to call me pathetic and delusional because i dont believe that spending $1,000,000 is an effecient way to help DRG, polt huk and naniwa play sc2 for a living, i think we disagree on what supporting a scene means. On August 09 2013 11:12 ROOTheognis wrote:On August 09 2013 11:06 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 11:02 ROOTheognis wrote:On August 09 2013 10:52 turdburgler wrote:On August 09 2013 09:36 emythrel wrote:
@incontrol's post SO SAY WE ALL!
Inc makes (as always) a great deal of sense. I sometimes wonder if the average age of the community were a tad higher that the fatalistic talk would be a lot less. I've been on this planet a good while now, and I've seen good times and bad times. The thing is that so long as there are people willing to put in the effort, the good times always return..... maybe not always the lofty heights we would like, but always to a pointyou can be happy with.
Having been professional musician my entire adult life (approaching 20 years now) I certainly have seen many ups and downs. SC2 is doing jus fine, even if its not the top dog anymore.As inc said, thats fine.... we dont need to be top dog, we just need to be in the race. how many pro players has mlg supported? you might think a lot, but i would argue the answer is 0. there are 0 players playing today, who wouldnt be playing if mlg didnt ever pick up sc2. hosting a big event for a weekend is a lot of fun, its great for the viewer, but with the prize pool to player number ratios, and the prize distribution being so top heavy, no one could go to an mlg relying on the payout. I'd disagree with this. Sure, MLG doesn't directly pay for a pro's salary or anything but they've given the opportunity for many pros to establish their name. Naniwa & Huk both won their first major tournaments here which of course lead them to more opportunities and making them more valuable for teams. Of course things are different now then they were back then but it was pretty big for many players. and where did that name help them? at EU events ;/. Those were just some examples I picked. Performing well at tournaments like MLG for a lot of players helps open up opportunities to joining higher profile teams which can send them to the EU events consistently. Suppy, for instance, joined EG right after his breakout performance at MLG Anaheim 2012. Did you know who he was before that MLG? With MLG gone, there's practically no offline chance for players to "prove" themselves. but suppy isnt supported by sc2 or MLG, hes still a student who can afford to get by on bread crumbs from EG because hes not under pressure. he doesnt need a big pay out or a sustainable check, because hes not a full time pro. i get what your saying, that mlg put a lot of names in to the limelight, but i dont think you can say that instantly means mlg was a valuable support to starcraft. maybe i was hyperbolic to say they supported no one, but they certainly didnt set out with the goal of supporting a scene, and that shows. Is your point that MLG didn't do enough for SC2? Do you have any concept of how much money they probably lost in their SC2 efforts lol. Please show us.
He's probably right. Even if they somehow managed to turn a profit, which is insanely doubtful, that profit wouldn't be anywhere close to money made by MLG showing LoL or Dota2.
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On August 09 2013 12:57 J1.au wrote:
SC2 has been so badly mismanaged, it's sad. I'm not even a fan of the game and this news depresses me.
I'm reluctant to believe that Dota2 would pull more viewer ship than SC2, using TI as a benchmark for Dota viewership isn't necessarily a valid measurement, personally I think were going to eventually see a huge decline in viewer ship for MOBA games with Lol and Dota2 becoming more prominent. Regardless It's such a shame to see the devs work so hard at Blizzard only to be screwed over by the higher ups due to lack of resources, competitive WoW was dropped from MLG as well solely because of Blizzards lack of corporation (like it or hate it there was a huge audience who tuned in), sucks to see yet another Blizzard title succumb to the same fate although other circumstances are in play.
if SC2 ever wants to be able to compete and reclaim it's throne Blizzard has to overhaul the arcade games system and revive the custom map making scene to get more casuals involved, reverting to the old Bnet 1.0 format of custom name lobbies would be an excellent start to do so. I'm really hoping that with this new Battle Net client being implemented SC2 will be able to draw viewers from the WoW audience and potentially the BALLSTARS as well.
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All I see is a lot of people pulling numbers and stats out of their asses in this thread. Maybe mods should make that a bannable offense.
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Am I the only one who thinks starcraft II is actually probably doing better than ever before? Like more viewers at recent events (wcs eu/ Anaheim) better players etc....?
Only thing struggling in NA is NA players I don't think it's NA interest.
And I think LoL will come and go but starcraft will stay.
Edit: aka I still think we are the #1 E-Sport in terms of passion
Basically hype is relative and our growth may be slow but it's inevitably growing despite MLG and despite Dota and lol
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Looks like it was just a business decision from MLG. I didn't know that all the other titles were paying MLG to feature their game while it was the other way around for SC2, combined with the difference in viewership I can't say I blame them. Though it is sad to see.
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Good stuff, InControl 
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Eh, their loss. NEXT MAN UP!
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I have been looking all year to go to MLG Columbus for SC2 as I live in Cincinnati and I'm rather poor at this time. With the decision to drop SC2 from Columbus, I'm just incredibly sad. Its the only real event I can ever go to and that is now taken from me. I want this void filled
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EPT
