EPTtophat and monocle accessories on marines? yes! :D
No Starcraft 2 at MLG Columbus (so far) - Page 42
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julianto
2292 Posts
tophat and monocle accessories on marines? yes! :D | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On August 09 2013 09:36 emythrel wrote: @incontrol's post SO SAY WE ALL! Inc makes (as always) a great deal of sense. I sometimes wonder if the average age of the community were a tad higher that the fatalistic talk would be a lot less. I've been on this planet a good while now, and I've seen good times and bad times. The thing is that so long as there are people willing to put in the effort, the good times always return..... maybe not always the lofty heights we would like, but always to a pointyou can be happy with. Having been professional musician my entire adult life (approaching 20 years now) I certainly have seen many ups and downs. SC2 is doing jus fine, even if its not the top dog anymore.As inc said, thats fine.... we dont need to be top dog, we just need to be in the race. i would take incontrols opinion here with a pinch of salt. if we look at the american scene in a vacuum, ignoring teamliquid for obvious reasons EG is simply strangling everyone out. not to beat the dead horse about incontrol getting a raise, but its easy for him to be optimistic. now im not saying sc2 is dead or anything, just that when 1 team has a strangle hold on 90% of the money, its not good for the scene. and lets have some real talk for a second here. every 5 figure salary EG is putting up, of which up until 3 months ago there was at least 4, is potentially 3-5 players not getting an entry level deal and a spot in a training house. EGs business model of creating super stars is actively hurting the american scene, it means more of the money goes to less of the players. so for incontrol to sit there and go, oh ye we can work through this, is pretty meaningless. eventually in america theres only going to be EG, and they will just play each other all day on EGTV live from california. and this is all tangentially related to why i have no sympathy for MLG either, and again its not for the business practices. for all the talk we are hearing from the predictable voices of "mlg put on the most events" "biggest supporter of sc2 for 3 years" blah blah, lets look at what it really means to support a scene. how many pro players has mlg supported? you might think a lot, but i would argue the answer is 0. there are 0 players playing today, who wouldnt be playing if mlg didnt ever pick up sc2. hosting a big event for a weekend is a lot of fun, its great for the viewer, but with the prize pool to player number ratios, and the prize distribution being so top heavy, no one could go to an mlg relying on the payout. compare this to the german EPS scene. they have 10% of the money, 10% of the exposure but they are actively supporting at least 4-5 players, probably more. and these are just the players surviving off EPS alone, there are obviously a ton of players who use that as a back up. for all the talk of NA sc2 dying, or not being sustainable, it is clear that this is a self inflicted wound. now mlg and EG are free to do whatever they want, no one blames people for making money. but it infuriates me to hear the, as i said, same old tired voices praising MLG when they arent a charity, they arent building a scene, they are hosting advertising events that are a ton of fun. | ||
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ROOTheognis
United States4482 Posts
On August 09 2013 10:52 turdburgler wrote: how many pro players has mlg supported? you might think a lot, but i would argue the answer is 0. there are 0 players playing today, who wouldnt be playing if mlg didnt ever pick up sc2. hosting a big event for a weekend is a lot of fun, its great for the viewer, but with the prize pool to player number ratios, and the prize distribution being so top heavy, no one could go to an mlg relying on the payout. I'd disagree with this. Sure, MLG doesn't directly pay for a pro's salary or anything but they've given the opportunity for many pros to establish their name. Naniwa & Huk both won their first major tournaments here which of course lead them to more opportunities and making them more valuable for teams. Of course things are different now then they were back then but it was pretty big for many players. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On August 09 2013 11:02 ROOTheognis wrote: I'd disagree with this. Sure, MLG doesn't directly pay for a pro's salary or anything but they've given the opportunity for many pros to establish their name. Naniwa & Huk both won their first major tournaments here which of course lead them to more opportunities and making them more valuable for teams. Of course things are different now then they were back then but it was pretty big for many players. and where did that name help them? at EU events ;/. | ||
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ROOTheognis
United States4482 Posts
On August 09 2013 11:06 turdburgler wrote: and where did that name help them? at EU events ;/. Those were just some examples I picked. Performing well at tournaments like MLG for a lot of players helps open up opportunities to joining higher profile teams which can send them to the EU events consistently. Suppy, for instance, joined EG right after his breakout performance at MLG Anaheim 2012. Did you know who he was before that MLG? With MLG gone, there's practically no offline chance for players to "prove" themselves. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On August 09 2013 11:06 turdburgler wrote: and where did that name help them? at EU events ;/. MLG paid for a lot of airplane trips for a lot of players to come to the US. How many Koreans had absolutely nothing from GSL, but got to go to MLG and became actual well known players? And considering all the invitationals that have happened in the last 3 years, winning an MLG or doing well in one meant a hell of a lot. You're pathetically delusional if you think the SC2 scene would be remotely the same without MLG. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On August 09 2013 11:13 WolfintheSheep wrote: MLG paid for a lot of airplane trips for a lot of players to come to the US. How many Koreans had absolutely nothing from GSL, but got to go to MLG and became actual well known players? And considering all the invitationals that have happened in the last 3 years, winning an MLG or doing well in one meant a hell of a lot. You're pathetically delusional if you think the SC2 scene would be remotely the same without MLG. the korean scene currently has at least 200 players at the pro level. of them MLG paid maybe 10-20 flights to maybe 10 different people who wouldnt of otherwise been able to justify the cost, of those i can think of 1 player who actually might not be playing today (but thats not for certain). so if you want to call me pathetic and delusional because i dont believe that spending $1,000,000 is an effecient way to help DRG, polt huk and naniwa play sc2 for a living, i think we disagree on what supporting a scene means. On August 09 2013 11:12 ROOTheognis wrote: Those were just some examples I picked. Performing well at tournaments like MLG for a lot of players helps open up opportunities to joining higher profile teams which can send them to the EU events consistently. Suppy, for instance, joined EG right after his breakout performance at MLG Anaheim 2012. Did you know who he was before that MLG? With MLG gone, there's practically no offline chance for players to "prove" themselves. but suppy isnt supported by sc2 or MLG, hes still a student who can afford to get by on bread crumbs from EG because hes not under pressure. he doesnt need a big pay out or a sustainable check, because hes not a full time pro. i get what your saying, that mlg put a lot of names in to the limelight, but i dont think you can say that instantly means mlg was a valuable support to starcraft. maybe i was hyperbolic to say they supported no one, but they certainly didnt set out with the goal of supporting a scene, and that shows. | ||
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Cababel
United States31 Posts
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Phanekim
United States777 Posts
I think this is more of a reflection on mlg than state of sc2. wcs america was a way for blizz to secure the sucess of its game. to me its been fine. MLg has a role in this as well but its finding it as its adjusting its business model. A lot of people are talking about league. Lol will be a thing of the past real soon. with rising dota and the impending f2p apocalyspe there will be an unending number of captain hindsights. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 09 2013 11:21 turdburgler wrote: the korean scene currently has at least 200 players at the pro level. of them MLG paid maybe 10-20 flights to maybe 10 different people, of whom i can think of 1 player who actually might not be playing today (but thats not for certain). so if you want to call me pathetic and delusional because i dont believe that spending $1,000,000 is an effecient way to help DRG, polt huk and naniwa play sc2 for a living, i think we disagree on what supporting a scene means. but suppy isnt supported by sc2 or MLG, hes still a student who can afford to get by on bread crumbs from EG because hes not under pressure. he doesnt need a big pay out or a sustainable check, because hes not a full time pro. i get what your saying, that mlg put a lot of names in to the limelight, but i dont think you can say that instantly means mlg was a valuable support to starcraft. maybe i was hyperbolic to say they supported no one, but they certainly didnt set out with the goal of supporting a scene, and that shows. Well I don't think they were going to hire them as employees, if that is what you are expecting. And there might not be a Nani'wa if he had not one that first MLG. In fact, there were no NA events before MLG, ever. Nothing at all but a few online events. And it was the success of MLG that lead to IGN diving into the scene and NASL becoming what it is today. But it all started back when and Jinro, Huk won those early MLGs. So when you say not valuable, you are forgetting that MLG was the first one to give SC2 a shot. But forgetting what kinda what this community does. Wow, your edit: LoL, Suppy going full time and bread crumbs. A straight A student a Berkeley going planning on going to medical school. Man, I bet he is struggling. Your view on the reality of Esports is pretty warped. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On August 09 2013 11:21 turdburgler wrote: the korean scene currently has at least 200 players at the pro level. of them MLG paid maybe 10-20 flights to maybe 10 different people who wouldnt of otherwise been able to justify the cost, of those i can think of 1 player who actually might not be playing today (but thats not for certain). so if you want to call me pathetic and delusional because i dont believe that spending $1,000,000 is an effecient way to help DRG, polt huk and naniwa play sc2 for a living, i think we disagree on what supporting a scene means. I think you have a very, very low understanding of how the SC2 grew or the extent that most players are actually supported by anything, let alone MLG. | ||
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
On August 09 2013 09:55 quebecman77 wrote: you can only go ''so far'' with a bad game , my main problem with sc2 that probably because that more ''fps'' that ''rts'' but hey sc2 was fun for ''some time'' got gm and stuft then quited because that just a terrible game after some time... you wonder why 4-5 pro a leaving each week ? well they think the same... and we have no ''new pro'' for take the place of the guy who leave , and the tournament from blizzard kill all chance for foreigner outside korea , realy less tournament and price... most pro gamer in ''na'' would get more money flipping burger.... because of this blizzard tournament.... in broodwar you could win 20-0 vs someone if you are better that him , in sc2 that more about luck , your champion of the week change well... every week , the patch they did and the one who abuse them the most ... make the best ''pro'' can go on and on but you get the point . that was expected . Well put, That is going to be a huge problem with this game is that we have yet to see true domination, There's to many pros that can be all over the place, on the top then in the rut for SC2. I think this hurts viewership more than anything as its just to random. To me theres really no heros, theres no THAT GUY is a bamf hes won every tournament for the last 6 months. Thats what we really need, but at this stage in the game it is not possible. | ||
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Rhaegal
United States678 Posts
On August 09 2013 11:12 ROOTheognis wrote: Those were just some examples I picked. Performing well at tournaments like MLG for a lot of players helps open up opportunities to joining higher profile teams which can send them to the EU events consistently. Suppy, for instance, joined EG right after his breakout performance at MLG Anaheim 2012. Did you know who he was before that MLG? With MLG gone, there's practically no offline chance for players to "prove" themselves. If a player is truly good, he will rise. Period. Simply attaining rank 1 NA with huge win/loss difference would make you stand out, but only Koreans can do that. There are so many online cups and qualifiers too. Foreigners simply aren't good enough. | ||
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playa
United States1284 Posts
I'd announce this now. Blizzard would start to wonder how they feel about their monopoly that is making people as eager to pick up playing their game (or getting involved in anyway) as they're eager to get STD's. Right now, chlamydia might be > SC 2. Since Blizzard is probably more greedy than dumb, they realize some money is greater than no money... They will either start charging MLG less of a fee or they will remove the fee. Then, MLG can act like "we brought SC 2 back due to the public outcry. We love our fans!! Anything for you guys." You know... bs like that. But honestly, as long as WCS resembles this, the fewer SC tournaments the better. Fuck this game. There aren't even local lans. All kinds of stupid fucking rules if you want to host anything SC related. Destroying any chance at growth worth being excited about. At this point, I'd rather give up playing this game and just watch Korean pros go back to playing BW. SC 2 might be funner to play, but this game is horrible in comparison as a spectator's sport (only p vs p has an argument for being better imo). | ||
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Strela
Netherlands1896 Posts
On August 09 2013 09:55 quebecman77 wrote: you can only go ''so far'' with a bad game , my main problem with sc2 that probably because that more ''fps'' that ''rts'' but hey sc2 was fun for ''some time'' got gm and stuft then quited because that just a terrible game after some time... you wonder why 4-5 pro a leaving each week ? well they think the same... and we have no ''new pro'' for take the place of the guy who leave , and the tournament from blizzard kill all chance for foreigner outside korea , realy less tournament and price... most pro gamer in ''na'' would get more money flipping burger.... because of this blizzard tournament.... in broodwar you could win 20-0 vs someone if you are better that him , in sc2 that more about luck , your champion of the week change well... every week , the patch they did and the one who abuse them the most ... make the best ''pro'' can go on and on but you get the point . that was expected . You'd think we would be running out of pro's with that many quiting and non replacing them...Who are the 10 pro's that quit in the last 2 weeks? | ||
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Quakecomm
United States344 Posts
It's not being down to earth, that's what inc is doing A lot of people are being negative for, it seems, the sake of being negative | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 09 2013 11:45 playa wrote: I haven't read much of this thread, but... from my view, I gather this is a negotiation ploy to some extent. If your game doesn't provide the most viewers/revenue, yet you're the only one charging money for people to be able to play your game at their tournament, then you have 0 leverage and need a reality check. I'd announce this now. Blizzard would start to wonder how they feel about their monopoly that is making people as eager to pick up playing their game (or getting involved in anyway) as they're eager to get STD's. Right now, chlamydia might be > SC 2. Since Blizzard is probably more greedy than dumb, they realize some money is greater than no money... They will either start charging MLG less of a fee or they will remove the fee. Then, MLG can act like "we brought SC 2 back due to the public outcry. We love our fans!! Anything for you guys." You know... bs like that. But honestly, as long as WCS resembles this, the fewer SC tournaments the better. Fuck this game. There aren't even local lans. All kinds of stupid fucking rules if you want to host anything SC related. Destroying any chance at growth worth being excited about. At this point, I'd rather give up playing this game and just watch Korean pros go back to playing BW. SC 2 might be funner to play, but this game is horrible in comparison as a spectator's sport (only p vs p has an argument for being better imo). Well super happy this guy told us how he feels, even though he didn't read the the thread. | ||
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hansonslee
United States2027 Posts
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playa
United States1284 Posts
On August 09 2013 11:49 Plansix wrote: Well super happy this guy told us how he feels, even though he didn't read the the thread. Because of people like you, no need to. All MLG/Blizzard propaganda bs, 24/7 from you. If I was Morhaimes wife, I'd swear he was cheating on me with you. | ||
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