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On August 09 2013 09:06 Ammanas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 09:01 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:58 Ammanas wrote:
I still don't get why so many people care.
WCS is superior format to anything MLG could bring with ther weekend long tournaments.
I for one think that if I could choose between WCS and MLG, I would always choose WCS.
So yeah, they lose some subscribers, Starcraft will continue being awesome as always, big deal... A lot of people view MLG as a bellwether of which games are doing well in NA. Whether this is true or not, there is a perception of this which is causing a bit of panic and feeds into the whole "SC2 is dying" pathology that we all know and love. lol that's weird. MLG is just a showcase of 'this developer pays more marketing money than this developer'. SC2 was their ONLY game that they had to actually pay for, because it was so big. Now it's still as big, but there are also bigger (and the LoL bubble will pop, just like SC2 did), so now they don't need to pay for it... that's all there is to it.
Which is why the freak out over this announcement is an overreaction, but everyone loves some drama so here we are.
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On August 09 2013 08:56 Cyrak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 08:51 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:48 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:40 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:36 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:31 dutchfriese wrote: Keep in mind without wc3 and blizzard and the old aeon of strife games that date back to brood war, it's entirely possible there is no such thing as lol/dota 2 today. huh? what does this have to do with the fact starcraft is harder game than dota 2? I'm not following. how is this relevant. It's already common knowledge that Blizzard didn't have the presence of mind to capitalize on Dota's popularity. Alleged Blizz insiders have even claimed that blizzard thought the mod was a "joke." There's no reason to give them any credit for Dota's success lol . I was telling you about how dota was created. I realize blizzard didn't create the game, but they created the map editor it was made on, and the reason it became so popular is because it was easier to play than it's cousin wc3. There are a lot of games that are easier to play than DOTA but are less popular. Did I just blow your mind? How is it so hard to understand that difficulty and game popularity have a tenuous correlation at best? It is really pathetic how defensive people are about SC2 as if there has to be some sort of positive justification for playing a different game. "He plays DOTA instead of SC2... but he only does it because DOTA is easier and he isn't man enough to play SC2!" never said anything of that nature. I was saying that dota 2 is enjoyable to a greater amount of people than sc2 because it's an easier game to play. A lot of people don't play sc2 because they see it as a chore and don't enjoy themselves. I can even prove this with brood war vs sc2. The reason sc2 is way more popular globally than brood war was is because sc2 itself is WAY easier to play than brood war was, hence more people enjoy themselves while playing the game, which leads to more people playing an a regular basis. I would be really fascinated to see you prove this, so I will take you up on your offer of that. Hint: noting that SC2 was more popular globally than Brood War and that it is also easier than Brood War doesn't actually prove anything! Wikipedia is your friend! i know very well the difference between correlation and causation, my theory makes perfect sense though. Sorry for using the word proof, the correct term would have been evidence. It's your job to poke holes in it, something you didn't even try to do. here's a wiki link for you my friend http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man You make up a "theory" based on your feelings and convey it in the verbatim form of a classic fallacy, I call you on your bullshit and that is a straw man? Okay then. But wait, you just posted the exact same thing again except now you justify the lack of evidence by saying it makes sense to you? I guess I will just say I disagree with your belief that the most important (or only?) reason SC2 was more internationally popular than BW was the difficulty level and leave it at that.
theory lol. To play sc2 correctly, one must use f keys, control groups and numerous other hotkeys. Dota has... 4 for each character + buying items? Is that just another pesky theory of mine? lol
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On August 09 2013 09:08 negativedge wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 08:56 Highways wrote:
At the end of the day this is all Blizzards fault:
1. Badly designed game - Comparing SC2 to BW is comparing a turd to a masterpiece. SC2 skill level is too low, barely any micro as the AI will micro for you, put everything on one hotkey and attack move, deathballs and a very very badly designed warp gate which kills the fun out of any Protoss matchup.
2. Blizzard money hungry While other companies like Riot are paying events organisers to host the game, Blizzard is demanding loyalties to broadcast the turd of a game that is SC2. Not only do they demand royalties, they even give the pillars of Starcraft a lawsuit (OGN and MBC Game).
The only hope for SC2 is for Blizzard to:
- Increase the skill gap and redesign Protoss in LotV
- Actually support and promote the game rather than being money hungry bastards
- Region lock WCS to support local growth (make Korea WCS have the biggest prize pool)
- Fix up battle.net to make it more social I wonder if all these TL leeches just have a big word document that they barf templates like this into so that they can spam every thread that reaches ten pages or more?
Probably. Reading these threads makes me feel like I'm one of like 5 guys who actually enjoys watching the game and doesn't think that Blizzard is some kind of fusion from Umbrella, Weyland-Yutani and Shin-Ra -_-
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On August 09 2013 09:09 negativedge wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 09:06 Ammanas wrote:On August 09 2013 09:01 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:58 Ammanas wrote:
I still don't get why so many people care.
WCS is superior format to anything MLG could bring with ther weekend long tournaments.
I for one think that if I could choose between WCS and MLG, I would always choose WCS.
So yeah, they lose some subscribers, Starcraft will continue being awesome as always, big deal... A lot of people view MLG as a bellwether of which games are doing well in NA. Whether this is true or not, there is a perception of this which is causing a bit of panic and feeds into the whole "SC2 is dying" pathology that we all know and love. (and the LoL bubble will pop, just like SC2 did) I doubt it, honestly. LoL has a player based at least ten times bigger than SC2, and Riot has nothing else to fall back on so you know they're going to be all in until they run out of money. those are huge factors that SC2 never had (and never will have) going for it.
What LoL has going against it, that SC2 doesn't have, is a strong competitor within its own genre. Dota 2 has every chance of overtaking LoL on every possible measurement tool and if that happens the future is grim for the 'cartoony ezmode pay to win version' of the same game.
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On August 09 2013 09:11 dutchfriese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 08:56 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:51 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:48 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:40 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:36 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:31 dutchfriese wrote: Keep in mind without wc3 and blizzard and the old aeon of strife games that date back to brood war, it's entirely possible there is no such thing as lol/dota 2 today. huh? what does this have to do with the fact starcraft is harder game than dota 2? I'm not following. how is this relevant. It's already common knowledge that Blizzard didn't have the presence of mind to capitalize on Dota's popularity. Alleged Blizz insiders have even claimed that blizzard thought the mod was a "joke." There's no reason to give them any credit for Dota's success lol . I was telling you about how dota was created. I realize blizzard didn't create the game, but they created the map editor it was made on, and the reason it became so popular is because it was easier to play than it's cousin wc3. There are a lot of games that are easier to play than DOTA but are less popular. Did I just blow your mind? How is it so hard to understand that difficulty and game popularity have a tenuous correlation at best? It is really pathetic how defensive people are about SC2 as if there has to be some sort of positive justification for playing a different game. "He plays DOTA instead of SC2... but he only does it because DOTA is easier and he isn't man enough to play SC2!" never said anything of that nature. I was saying that dota 2 is enjoyable to a greater amount of people than sc2 because it's an easier game to play. A lot of people don't play sc2 because they see it as a chore and don't enjoy themselves. I can even prove this with brood war vs sc2. The reason sc2 is way more popular globally than brood war was is because sc2 itself is WAY easier to play than brood war was, hence more people enjoy themselves while playing the game, which leads to more people playing an a regular basis. I would be really fascinated to see you prove this, so I will take you up on your offer of that. Hint: noting that SC2 was more popular globally than Brood War and that it is also easier than Brood War doesn't actually prove anything! Wikipedia is your friend! i know very well the difference between correlation and causation, my theory makes perfect sense though. Sorry for using the word proof, the correct term would have been evidence. It's your job to poke holes in it, something you didn't even try to do. here's a wiki link for you my friend http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man You make up a "theory" based on your feelings and convey it in the verbatim form of a classic fallacy, I call you on your bullshit and that is a straw man? Okay then. But wait, you just posted the exact same thing again except now you justify the lack of evidence by saying it makes sense to you? I guess I will just say I disagree with your belief that the most important (or only?) reason SC2 was more internationally popular than BW was the difficulty level and leave it at that. theory lol. To play sc2 correctly, one must use f keys, control groups and numerous other hotkeys. Dota has... 4 for each character + buying items? Is that just another pesky theory of mine? lol
That actually depends on the hero. Some have passive abilities and others have abilities that have a few different modes.
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To be honest I'm not so sad to see MLG go. I'm tired of arguing why halo rules doesn't suit sc etc. I'm tired of the pr machine that only works for complete idiots. I won't say good riddance, but I'm certainly not sad about it. It is another hit against WCS though. That's mlg and nasl so far. Stretch it a bit and maybe there was an infuence on ipl there too...timing fits conspiracy theories now^^
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On August 09 2013 09:12 xyzz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 09:09 negativedge wrote:On August 09 2013 09:06 Ammanas wrote:On August 09 2013 09:01 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:58 Ammanas wrote:
I still don't get why so many people care.
WCS is superior format to anything MLG could bring with ther weekend long tournaments.
I for one think that if I could choose between WCS and MLG, I would always choose WCS.
So yeah, they lose some subscribers, Starcraft will continue being awesome as always, big deal... A lot of people view MLG as a bellwether of which games are doing well in NA. Whether this is true or not, there is a perception of this which is causing a bit of panic and feeds into the whole "SC2 is dying" pathology that we all know and love. (and the LoL bubble will pop, just like SC2 did) I doubt it, honestly. LoL has a player based at least ten times bigger than SC2, and Riot has nothing else to fall back on so you know they're going to be all in until they run out of money. those are huge factors that SC2 never had (and never will have) going for it. What LoL has going against it, that SC2 doesn't have, is a strong competitor within its own genre. Dota 2 has every chance of overtaking LoL on every possible measurement tool and if that happens the future is grim for the 'cartoony ezmode pay to win version' of the same game.
You seem to just hate LoL and Riot from your posts, but why would you even consider that a bad thing? Competition means that both LoL and Dota2 have to push their games harder and better to stay compeititve in the esports market, its actually a bad thing that SC2 didn't have competition.
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On August 09 2013 09:13 BlackPanther wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 09:11 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:56 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:51 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:48 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:40 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:36 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:31 dutchfriese wrote: Keep in mind without wc3 and blizzard and the old aeon of strife games that date back to brood war, it's entirely possible there is no such thing as lol/dota 2 today. huh? what does this have to do with the fact starcraft is harder game than dota 2? I'm not following. how is this relevant. It's already common knowledge that Blizzard didn't have the presence of mind to capitalize on Dota's popularity. Alleged Blizz insiders have even claimed that blizzard thought the mod was a "joke." There's no reason to give them any credit for Dota's success lol . I was telling you about how dota was created. I realize blizzard didn't create the game, but they created the map editor it was made on, and the reason it became so popular is because it was easier to play than it's cousin wc3. There are a lot of games that are easier to play than DOTA but are less popular. Did I just blow your mind? How is it so hard to understand that difficulty and game popularity have a tenuous correlation at best? It is really pathetic how defensive people are about SC2 as if there has to be some sort of positive justification for playing a different game. "He plays DOTA instead of SC2... but he only does it because DOTA is easier and he isn't man enough to play SC2!" never said anything of that nature. I was saying that dota 2 is enjoyable to a greater amount of people than sc2 because it's an easier game to play. A lot of people don't play sc2 because they see it as a chore and don't enjoy themselves. I can even prove this with brood war vs sc2. The reason sc2 is way more popular globally than brood war was is because sc2 itself is WAY easier to play than brood war was, hence more people enjoy themselves while playing the game, which leads to more people playing an a regular basis. I would be really fascinated to see you prove this, so I will take you up on your offer of that. Hint: noting that SC2 was more popular globally than Brood War and that it is also easier than Brood War doesn't actually prove anything! Wikipedia is your friend! i know very well the difference between correlation and causation, my theory makes perfect sense though. Sorry for using the word proof, the correct term would have been evidence. It's your job to poke holes in it, something you didn't even try to do. here's a wiki link for you my friend http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man You make up a "theory" based on your feelings and convey it in the verbatim form of a classic fallacy, I call you on your bullshit and that is a straw man? Okay then. But wait, you just posted the exact same thing again except now you justify the lack of evidence by saying it makes sense to you? I guess I will just say I disagree with your belief that the most important (or only?) reason SC2 was more internationally popular than BW was the difficulty level and leave it at that. theory lol. To play sc2 correctly, one must use f keys, control groups and numerous other hotkeys. Dota has... 4 for each character + buying items? Is that just another pesky theory of mine? lol That actually depends on the hero. Some have passive abilities and others have abilities that have a few different modes.
that may very well be, still doesn't come close to the amount of hotkeys needed to play sc2.
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[QUOTE]On August 09 2013 08:40 dutchfriese wrote:
[QUOTE]On August 09 2013 08:36 Cyrak wrote:
[QUOTE]On August 09 2013 08:31 dutchfriese wrote:
[QUOTE] Keep in mind without wc3 and blizzard and the old aeon of strife games that date back to brood war, it's entirely possible there is no such thing as lol/dota 2 today. [/QUOTE]
huh? what does this have to do with the fact starcraft is harder game than dota 2? I'm not following.
[quote]how is this relevant. It's already common knowledge that Blizzard didn't have the presence of mind to capitalize on Dota's popularity. Alleged Blizz insiders have even claimed that blizzard thought the mod was a "joke." There's no reason to give them any credit for Dota's success [/QUOTE]
The reason sc2 is way more popular globally than brood war was...[/QUOTE]
this isn't even really the case. of course, as a esport it is, but a lot of that can be attributed to all the esports infrastructure that simply did not exist until very recently. back when sc/bw came out, it was the biggest game on the planet. everyone who followed video games at the very least knew all about starcraft. today, the esport is relatively stable, but the percentage of people who have any interest in SC2 is way lower than BW back in the day. starcraft was the biggest game in the world in the late nineties. it was hyped to hell and back. that has never been the case with SC2.
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On August 09 2013 09:12 xyzz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 09:09 negativedge wrote:On August 09 2013 09:06 Ammanas wrote:On August 09 2013 09:01 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:58 Ammanas wrote:
I still don't get why so many people care.
WCS is superior format to anything MLG could bring with ther weekend long tournaments.
I for one think that if I could choose between WCS and MLG, I would always choose WCS.
So yeah, they lose some subscribers, Starcraft will continue being awesome as always, big deal... A lot of people view MLG as a bellwether of which games are doing well in NA. Whether this is true or not, there is a perception of this which is causing a bit of panic and feeds into the whole "SC2 is dying" pathology that we all know and love. (and the LoL bubble will pop, just like SC2 did) I doubt it, honestly. LoL has a player based at least ten times bigger than SC2, and Riot has nothing else to fall back on so you know they're going to be all in until they run out of money. those are huge factors that SC2 never had (and never will have) going for it. What LoL has going against it, that SC2 doesn't have, is a strong competitor within its own genre. Dota 2 has every chance of overtaking LoL on every possible measurement tool and if that happens the future is grim for the 'cartoony ezmode pay to win version' of the same game.
Oh look, the false correlation between complexity and competition appears again!
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On August 09 2013 09:12 xyzz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 09:09 negativedge wrote:On August 09 2013 09:06 Ammanas wrote:On August 09 2013 09:01 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:58 Ammanas wrote:
I still don't get why so many people care.
WCS is superior format to anything MLG could bring with ther weekend long tournaments.
I for one think that if I could choose between WCS and MLG, I would always choose WCS.
So yeah, they lose some subscribers, Starcraft will continue being awesome as always, big deal... A lot of people view MLG as a bellwether of which games are doing well in NA. Whether this is true or not, there is a perception of this which is causing a bit of panic and feeds into the whole "SC2 is dying" pathology that we all know and love. (and the LoL bubble will pop, just like SC2 did) I doubt it, honestly. LoL has a player based at least ten times bigger than SC2, and Riot has nothing else to fall back on so you know they're going to be all in until they run out of money. those are huge factors that SC2 never had (and never will have) going for it. What LoL has going against it, that SC2 doesn't have, is a strong competitor within its own genre. Dota 2 has every chance of overtaking LoL on every possible measurement tool and if that happens the future is grim for the 'cartoony ezmode pay to win version' of the same game.
I don't want to get into a DOTA 2 vs LOL discussion as I loved the original DOTA and love LOL (haven't tried DOTA 2, but I'd probably love it) but which is bigger, and what is the community consensus on which is going to run the other out of business?
I don't follow the scene's enough to know.
On August 09 2013 09:15 ChaosShadow wrote:
its actually a bad thing that SC2 didn't have competition.
Worst thing to ever happen to SC2.
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On August 09 2013 09:11 dutchfriese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 08:56 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:51 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:48 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:40 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:36 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:31 dutchfriese wrote: Keep in mind without wc3 and blizzard and the old aeon of strife games that date back to brood war, it's entirely possible there is no such thing as lol/dota 2 today. huh? what does this have to do with the fact starcraft is harder game than dota 2? I'm not following. how is this relevant. It's already common knowledge that Blizzard didn't have the presence of mind to capitalize on Dota's popularity. Alleged Blizz insiders have even claimed that blizzard thought the mod was a "joke." There's no reason to give them any credit for Dota's success lol . I was telling you about how dota was created. I realize blizzard didn't create the game, but they created the map editor it was made on, and the reason it became so popular is because it was easier to play than it's cousin wc3. There are a lot of games that are easier to play than DOTA but are less popular. Did I just blow your mind? How is it so hard to understand that difficulty and game popularity have a tenuous correlation at best? It is really pathetic how defensive people are about SC2 as if there has to be some sort of positive justification for playing a different game. "He plays DOTA instead of SC2... but he only does it because DOTA is easier and he isn't man enough to play SC2!" never said anything of that nature. I was saying that dota 2 is enjoyable to a greater amount of people than sc2 because it's an easier game to play. A lot of people don't play sc2 because they see it as a chore and don't enjoy themselves. I can even prove this with brood war vs sc2. The reason sc2 is way more popular globally than brood war was is because sc2 itself is WAY easier to play than brood war was, hence more people enjoy themselves while playing the game, which leads to more people playing an a regular basis. I would be really fascinated to see you prove this, so I will take you up on your offer of that. Hint: noting that SC2 was more popular globally than Brood War and that it is also easier than Brood War doesn't actually prove anything! Wikipedia is your friend! i know very well the difference between correlation and causation, my theory makes perfect sense though. Sorry for using the word proof, the correct term would have been evidence. It's your job to poke holes in it, something you didn't even try to do. here's a wiki link for you my friend Straw manhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man You make up a "theory" based on your feelings and convey it in the verbatim form of a classic fallacy, I call you on your bullshit and that is a straw man? Okay then. But wait, you just posted the exact same thing again except now you justify the lack of evidence by saying it makes sense to you? I guess I will just say I disagree with your belief that the most important (or only?) reason SC2 was more internationally popular than BW was the difficulty level and leave it at that. theory lol. To play sc2 correctly, one must use f keys, control groups and numerous other hotkeys. Dota has... 4 for each character + buying items? Is that just another pesky theory of mine? lol
Is 3 posts the limit of your short term memory? Because at no point in our conversation have I mentioned which game was more difficult, we were talking about whether the difficulty was the driving factor behind which game was more popular.
Having been humiliated by your own stupidity you pretend that I was arguing all along that DOTA was more difficult than SC2 even though I did no such thing. Do you know what that tactic is called? A Straw man!
I guess the limit is 2 posts, not 3.
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On August 09 2013 09:15 ChaosShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 09:12 xyzz wrote:On August 09 2013 09:09 negativedge wrote:On August 09 2013 09:06 Ammanas wrote:On August 09 2013 09:01 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:58 Ammanas wrote:
I still don't get why so many people care.
WCS is superior format to anything MLG could bring with ther weekend long tournaments.
I for one think that if I could choose between WCS and MLG, I would always choose WCS.
So yeah, they lose some subscribers, Starcraft will continue being awesome as always, big deal... A lot of people view MLG as a bellwether of which games are doing well in NA. Whether this is true or not, there is a perception of this which is causing a bit of panic and feeds into the whole "SC2 is dying" pathology that we all know and love. (and the LoL bubble will pop, just like SC2 did) I doubt it, honestly. LoL has a player based at least ten times bigger than SC2, and Riot has nothing else to fall back on so you know they're going to be all in until they run out of money. those are huge factors that SC2 never had (and never will have) going for it. What LoL has going against it, that SC2 doesn't have, is a strong competitor within its own genre. Dota 2 has every chance of overtaking LoL on every possible measurement tool and if that happens the future is grim for the 'cartoony ezmode pay to win version' of the same game. You seem to just hate LoL and Riot from your posts, but why would you even consider that a bad thing? Competition means that both LoL and Dota2 have to push their games harder and better to stay compeititve in the esports market, its actually a bad thing that SC2 didn't have competition.
I can't say that I agree with anything that you just said. Neither do I hate LoL or Riot (a common attack against anyone who doesn't blindly fanboy a company or their products), nor do I think that having half of Starcraft 2 players playing some other RTS would be a good thing for Starcraft 2.
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On August 09 2013 09:11 Ventris wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 09:08 negativedge wrote:On August 09 2013 08:56 Highways wrote:
At the end of the day this is all Blizzards fault:
1. Badly designed game - Comparing SC2 to BW is comparing a turd to a masterpiece. SC2 skill level is too low, barely any micro as the AI will micro for you, put everything on one hotkey and attack move, deathballs and a very very badly designed warp gate which kills the fun out of any Protoss matchup.
2. Blizzard money hungry While other companies like Riot are paying events organisers to host the game, Blizzard is demanding loyalties to broadcast the turd of a game that is SC2. Not only do they demand royalties, they even give the pillars of Starcraft a lawsuit (OGN and MBC Game).
The only hope for SC2 is for Blizzard to:
- Increase the skill gap and redesign Protoss in LotV
- Actually support and promote the game rather than being money hungry bastards
- Region lock WCS to support local growth (make Korea WCS have the biggest prize pool)
- Fix up battle.net to make it more social I wonder if all these TL leeches just have a big word document that they barf templates like this into so that they can spam every thread that reaches ten pages or more? Probably. Reading these threads makes me feel like I'm one of like 5 guys who actually enjoys watching the game and doesn't think that Blizzard is some kind of fusion from Umbrella, Weyland-Yutani and Shin-Ra -_-
Don't take the whining to serious, there is just a small faction of haters who will use every thread to spread their hate.
"Blizzard spends five million dollars to help children in the third world"
Damn bastards, warpgates stuill ruining the game!
They should use their money for a better game, tards
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screw you haters, i support this post
On August 09 2013 08:56 Highways wrote:
At the end of the day this is all Blizzards fault:
1. Badly designed game - Comparing SC2 to BW is comparing a turd to a masterpiece. SC2 skill level is too low, barely any micro as the AI will micro for you, put everything on one hotkey and attack move, deathballs and a very very badly designed warp gate which kills the fun out of any Protoss matchup.
2. Blizzard money hungry While other companies like Riot are paying events organisers to host the game, Blizzard is demanding loyalties to broadcast the turd of a game that is SC2. Not only do they demand royalties, they even give the pillars of Starcraft a lawsuit (OGN and MBC Game).
The only hope for SC2 is for Blizzard to:
- Increase the skill gap and redesign Protoss in LotV
- Actually support and promote the game rather than being money hungry bastards
- Region lock WCS to support local growth (make Korea WCS have the biggest prize pool)
- Fix up battle.net to make it more social
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On August 09 2013 09:17 Cyrak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 09:11 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:56 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:51 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:48 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:40 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:36 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:31 dutchfriese wrote: Keep in mind without wc3 and blizzard and the old aeon of strife games that date back to brood war, it's entirely possible there is no such thing as lol/dota 2 today. huh? what does this have to do with the fact starcraft is harder game than dota 2? I'm not following. how is this relevant. It's already common knowledge that Blizzard didn't have the presence of mind to capitalize on Dota's popularity. Alleged Blizz insiders have even claimed that blizzard thought the mod was a "joke." There's no reason to give them any credit for Dota's success lol . I was telling you about how dota was created. I realize blizzard didn't create the game, but they created the map editor it was made on, and the reason it became so popular is because it was easier to play than it's cousin wc3. There are a lot of games that are easier to play than DOTA but are less popular. Did I just blow your mind? How is it so hard to understand that difficulty and game popularity have a tenuous correlation at best? It is really pathetic how defensive people are about SC2 as if there has to be some sort of positive justification for playing a different game. "He plays DOTA instead of SC2... but he only does it because DOTA is easier and he isn't man enough to play SC2!" never said anything of that nature. I was saying that dota 2 is enjoyable to a greater amount of people than sc2 because it's an easier game to play. A lot of people don't play sc2 because they see it as a chore and don't enjoy themselves. I can even prove this with brood war vs sc2. The reason sc2 is way more popular globally than brood war was is because sc2 itself is WAY easier to play than brood war was, hence more people enjoy themselves while playing the game, which leads to more people playing an a regular basis. I would be really fascinated to see you prove this, so I will take you up on your offer of that. Hint: noting that SC2 was more popular globally than Brood War and that it is also easier than Brood War doesn't actually prove anything! Wikipedia is your friend! i know very well the difference between correlation and causation, my theory makes perfect sense though. Sorry for using the word proof, the correct term would have been evidence. It's your job to poke holes in it, something you didn't even try to do. here's a wiki link for you my friend Straw manhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man You make up a "theory" based on your feelings and convey it in the verbatim form of a classic fallacy, I call you on your bullshit and that is a straw man? Okay then. But wait, you just posted the exact same thing again except now you justify the lack of evidence by saying it makes sense to you? I guess I will just say I disagree with your belief that the most important (or only?) reason SC2 was more internationally popular than BW was the difficulty level and leave it at that. theory lol. To play sc2 correctly, one must use f keys, control groups and numerous other hotkeys. Dota has... 4 for each character + buying items? Is that just another pesky theory of mine? lol Is 3 posts the limit of your short term memory? Because at no point in our conversation have I mentioned which game was more difficult, we were talking about whether the difficulty was the driving factor behind which game was more popular. Having been humiliated by your own stupidity you pretend that I was arguing all along that DOTA was more difficult than SC2 even though I did no such thing. Do you know what that tactic is called? A Straw man! I guess the limit is 2 posts, not 3.
your right i confused you with the other poster, i apologize.
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On August 09 2013 09:00 dutchfriese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 08:56 Quotidian wrote:On August 09 2013 08:52 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:49 Quotidian wrote:On August 09 2013 08:45 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:43 Quotidian wrote:On August 09 2013 08:40 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:36 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:31 dutchfriese wrote: Keep in mind without wc3 and blizzard and the old aeon of strife games that date back to brood war, it's entirely possible there is no such thing as lol/dota 2 today. huh? what does this have to do with the fact starcraft is harder game than dota 2? I'm not following. how is this relevant. It's already common knowledge that Blizzard didn't have the presence of mind to capitalize on Dota's popularity. Alleged Blizz insiders have even claimed that blizzard thought the mod was a "joke." There's no reason to give them any credit for Dota's success lol . I was telling you about how dota was created. I realize blizzard didn't create the game, but they created the map editor it was made on, and the reason it became so popular is because it was easier to play than it's cousin wc3. There are a lot of games that are easier to play than DOTA but are less popular. Did I just blow your mind? How is it so hard to understand that difficulty and game popularity have a tenuous correlation at best? It is really pathetic how defensive people are about SC2 as if there has to be some sort of positive justification for playing a different game. "He plays DOTA instead of SC2... but he only does it because DOTA is easier and he isn't man enough to play SC2!" never said anything of that nature. I was saying that dota 2 is enjoyable to a greater amount of people than sc2 because it's an easier game to play. A lot of people don't play sc2 because they see it as a chore and don't enjoy themselves. I can even prove this with brood war vs sc2. The reason sc2 is way more popular globally than brood war was is because sc2 itself is WAY easier to play than brood war was, hence more people enjoy themselves while playing the game, which leads to more people playing an a regular basis. that's hardly proof. SC2's success over BW can just as easily be attributed to hype, pc gaming being more mainstream and more money spent on marketing just because blizzard marketed it doesn't mean people were going to play it on a regular basis. I know around 8 people who all bought the game and haven't played since the first 2 months of WoL. The hype sure didn't them to continue playing. again, not relevant. You were talking about success, not longevity. This is pointless, you're bad at arguing. I'm switching back to TI3 scream not relevant all you want, i can't think critically for you, sorry. not for yourself either, it seems. Simple observations isn't proof of anything. the proof is wc3 vs dota, like i've already told you numerous times. There is FAR more necessary apm to win in a wc3 game vs a dota game, therefore it is a harder game to play. You really can't understand this?
that's an assertion. An assertion is not proof. There can be3 many other reasons why dota ended up being more played than WC3.. like continued updates, new heroes etc. Most likely it's a combination of things
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On August 09 2013 09:25 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 09:00 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:56 Quotidian wrote:On August 09 2013 08:52 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:49 Quotidian wrote:On August 09 2013 08:45 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:43 Quotidian wrote:On August 09 2013 08:40 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:36 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:31 dutchfriese wrote:
[quote]
huh? what does this have to do with the fact starcraft is harder game than dota 2? I'm not following.
[quote]
lol . I was telling you about how dota was created. I realize blizzard didn't create the game, but they created the map editor it was made on, and the reason it became so popular is because it was easier to play than it's cousin wc3. There are a lot of games that are easier to play than DOTA but are less popular. Did I just blow your mind? How is it so hard to understand that difficulty and game popularity have a tenuous correlation at best? It is really pathetic how defensive people are about SC2 as if there has to be some sort of positive justification for playing a different game. "He plays DOTA instead of SC2... but he only does it because DOTA is easier and he isn't man enough to play SC2!" never said anything of that nature. I was saying that dota 2 is enjoyable to a greater amount of people than sc2 because it's an easier game to play. A lot of people don't play sc2 because they see it as a chore and don't enjoy themselves. I can even prove this with brood war vs sc2. The reason sc2 is way more popular globally than brood war was is because sc2 itself is WAY easier to play than brood war was, hence more people enjoy themselves while playing the game, which leads to more people playing an a regular basis. that's hardly proof. SC2's success over BW can just as easily be attributed to hype, pc gaming being more mainstream and more money spent on marketing just because blizzard marketed it doesn't mean people were going to play it on a regular basis. I know around 8 people who all bought the game and haven't played since the first 2 months of WoL. The hype sure didn't them to continue playing. again, not relevant. You were talking about success, not longevity. This is pointless, you're bad at arguing. I'm switching back to TI3 scream not relevant all you want, i can't think critically for you, sorry. not for yourself either, it seems. Simple observations isn't proof of anything. the proof is wc3 vs dota, like i've already told you numerous times. There is FAR more necessary apm to win in a wc3 game vs a dota game, therefore it is a harder game to play. You really can't understand this? that's an assertion. An assertion is not proof. There can be3 many other reasons why dota ended up being more played than WC3.. like continued updates, new heroes etc. Most likely it's a combination of things
it's the primary reason. Like i've already told you, i have many, many friends who have no fun playing starcraft 2 and had no fun playing warcraft 3 or brood war because the game went too fast for them. It's really obvious which game is harder, try teaching someone new to both games each one sometime and let me know which game was picked up faster.
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On August 09 2013 09:30 dutchfriese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 09:25 Quotidian wrote:On August 09 2013 09:00 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:56 Quotidian wrote:On August 09 2013 08:52 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:49 Quotidian wrote:On August 09 2013 08:45 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:43 Quotidian wrote:On August 09 2013 08:40 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:36 Cyrak wrote:
[quote]
There are a lot of games that are easier to play than DOTA but are less popular. Did I just blow your mind? How is it so hard to understand that difficulty and game popularity have a tenuous correlation at best?
It is really pathetic how defensive people are about SC2 as if there has to be some sort of positive justification for playing a different game. "He plays DOTA instead of SC2... but he only does it because DOTA is easier and he isn't man enough to play SC2!" never said anything of that nature. I was saying that dota 2 is enjoyable to a greater amount of people than sc2 because it's an easier game to play. A lot of people don't play sc2 because they see it as a chore and don't enjoy themselves. I can even prove this with brood war vs sc2. The reason sc2 is way more popular globally than brood war was is because sc2 itself is WAY easier to play than brood war was, hence more people enjoy themselves while playing the game, which leads to more people playing an a regular basis. that's hardly proof. SC2's success over BW can just as easily be attributed to hype, pc gaming being more mainstream and more money spent on marketing just because blizzard marketed it doesn't mean people were going to play it on a regular basis. I know around 8 people who all bought the game and haven't played since the first 2 months of WoL. The hype sure didn't them to continue playing. again, not relevant. You were talking about success, not longevity. This is pointless, you're bad at arguing. I'm switching back to TI3 scream not relevant all you want, i can't think critically for you, sorry. not for yourself either, it seems. Simple observations isn't proof of anything. the proof is wc3 vs dota, like i've already told you numerous times. There is FAR more necessary apm to win in a wc3 game vs a dota game, therefore it is a harder game to play. You really can't understand this? that's an assertion. An assertion is not proof. There can be3 many other reasons why dota ended up being more played than WC3.. like continued updates, new heroes etc. Most likely it's a combination of things it's the primary reason. Like i've already told you, i have many, many friends who have no fun playing starcraft 2 and had no fun playing warcraft 3 or brood war because the game went too fast for them. It's really obvious which game is harder, try teaching someone new to both games each one sometime and let me know which game was picked up faster.
sigh
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On August 09 2013 09:22 jinorazi wrote:screw you haters, i support this post Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 08:56 Highways wrote:
At the end of the day this is all Blizzards fault:
1. Badly designed game - Comparing SC2 to BW is comparing a turd to a masterpiece. SC2 skill level is too low, barely any micro as the AI will micro for you, put everything on one hotkey and attack move, deathballs and a very very badly designed warp gate which kills the fun out of any Protoss matchup.
2. Blizzard money hungry While other companies like Riot are paying events organisers to host the game, Blizzard is demanding loyalties to broadcast the turd of a game that is SC2. Not only do they demand royalties, they even give the pillars of Starcraft a lawsuit (OGN and MBC Game).
The only hope for SC2 is for Blizzard to:
- Increase the skill gap and redesign Protoss in LotV
- Actually support and promote the game rather than being money hungry bastards
- Region lock WCS to support local growth (make Korea WCS have the biggest prize pool)
- Fix up battle.net to make it more social
At the end of the day you will never be happy with SC2. The soon you accept it and move on the better...for us.
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EPT
