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On August 09 2013 08:52 dutchfriese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 08:49 Quotidian wrote:On August 09 2013 08:45 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:43 Quotidian wrote:On August 09 2013 08:40 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:36 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:31 dutchfriese wrote: Keep in mind without wc3 and blizzard and the old aeon of strife games that date back to brood war, it's entirely possible there is no such thing as lol/dota 2 today. huh? what does this have to do with the fact starcraft is harder game than dota 2? I'm not following. how is this relevant. It's already common knowledge that Blizzard didn't have the presence of mind to capitalize on Dota's popularity. Alleged Blizz insiders have even claimed that blizzard thought the mod was a "joke." There's no reason to give them any credit for Dota's success lol . I was telling you about how dota was created. I realize blizzard didn't create the game, but they created the map editor it was made on, and the reason it became so popular is because it was easier to play than it's cousin wc3. There are a lot of games that are easier to play than DOTA but are less popular. Did I just blow your mind? How is it so hard to understand that difficulty and game popularity have a tenuous correlation at best? It is really pathetic how defensive people are about SC2 as if there has to be some sort of positive justification for playing a different game. "He plays DOTA instead of SC2... but he only does it because DOTA is easier and he isn't man enough to play SC2!" never said anything of that nature. I was saying that dota 2 is enjoyable to a greater amount of people than sc2 because it's an easier game to play. A lot of people don't play sc2 because they see it as a chore and don't enjoy themselves. I can even prove this with brood war vs sc2. The reason sc2 is way more popular globally than brood war was is because sc2 itself is WAY easier to play than brood war was, hence more people enjoy themselves while playing the game, which leads to more people playing an a regular basis. that's hardly proof. SC2's success over BW can just as easily be attributed to hype, pc gaming being more mainstream and more money spent on marketing just because blizzard marketed it doesn't mean people were going to play it on a regular basis. I know around 8 people who all bought the game and haven't played since the first 2 months of WoL. The hype sure didn't them to continue playing. again, not relevant. You were talking about success, not longevity. This is pointless, you're bad at arguing. I'm switching back to TI3 scream not relevant all you want, i can't think critically for you, sorry.
not for yourself either, it seems. Simple observations isn't proof of anything.
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On August 09 2013 08:51 dutchfriese wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 08:48 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:40 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:36 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:31 dutchfriese wrote: Keep in mind without wc3 and blizzard and the old aeon of strife games that date back to brood war, it's entirely possible there is no such thing as lol/dota 2 today. huh? what does this have to do with the fact starcraft is harder game than dota 2? I'm not following. how is this relevant. It's already common knowledge that Blizzard didn't have the presence of mind to capitalize on Dota's popularity. Alleged Blizz insiders have even claimed that blizzard thought the mod was a "joke." There's no reason to give them any credit for Dota's success lol . I was telling you about how dota was created. I realize blizzard didn't create the game, but they created the map editor it was made on, and the reason it became so popular is because it was easier to play than it's cousin wc3. There are a lot of games that are easier to play than DOTA but are less popular. Did I just blow your mind? How is it so hard to understand that difficulty and game popularity have a tenuous correlation at best? It is really pathetic how defensive people are about SC2 as if there has to be some sort of positive justification for playing a different game. "He plays DOTA instead of SC2... but he only does it because DOTA is easier and he isn't man enough to play SC2!" never said anything of that nature. I was saying that dota 2 is enjoyable to a greater amount of people than sc2 because it's an easier game to play. A lot of people don't play sc2 because they see it as a chore and don't enjoy themselves. I can even prove this with brood war vs sc2. The reason sc2 is way more popular globally than brood war was is because sc2 itself is WAY easier to play than brood war was, hence more people enjoy themselves while playing the game, which leads to more people playing an a regular basis. I would be really fascinated to see you prove this, so I will take you up on your offer of that. Hint: noting that SC2 was more popular globally than Brood War and that it is also easier than Brood War doesn't actually prove anything! Wikipedia is your friend! i know very well the difference between correlation and causation, my theory makes perfect sense though. Sorry for using the word proof, the correct term would have been evidence. It's your job to poke holes in it, something you didn't even try to do. here's a wiki link for you my friend http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
You make up a "theory" based on your feelings and convey it in the verbatim form of a classic fallacy, I call you on your bullshit and that is a straw man? Okay then. But wait, you just posted the exact same thing again except now you justify the lack of evidence by saying it makes sense to you?
I guess I will just say I disagree with your belief that the most important (or only?) reason SC2 was more internationally popular than BW was the difficulty level and leave it at that.
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At the end of the day this is all Blizzards fault:
1. Badly designed game - Comparing SC2 to BW is comparing a turd to a masterpiece. SC2 skill level is too low, barely any micro as the AI will micro for you, put everything on one hotkey and attack move, deathballs and a very very badly designed warp gate which kills the fun out of any Protoss matchup.
2. Blizzard money hungry While other companies like Riot are paying events organisers to host the game, Blizzard is demanding loyalties to broadcast the turd of a game that is SC2. Not only do they demand royalties, they even give the pillars of Starcraft a lawsuit (OGN and MBC Game).
The only hope for SC2 is for Blizzard to:
- Increase the skill gap and redesign Protoss in LotV
- Actually support and promote the game rather than being money hungry bastards
- Region lock WCS to support local growth (make Korea WCS have the biggest prize pool)
- Fix up battle.net to make it more social
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The way it's worded gives me a little hope. Sundance may be trying to strongarm Blizz into being more flexible with their tournament restrictions/fees (which they really should be as MLG promotes their game).
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Sad for NA and SC2 in general.
I lost more and more interest in SC2 because of the game itself though not the WCS, tournaments or Koreans or anything else.
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I still don't get why so many people care.
WCS is superior format to anything MLG could bring with ther weekend long tournaments.
I for one think that if I could choose between WCS and MLG, I would always choose WCS.
So yeah, they lose some subscribers, Starcraft will continue being awesome as always, big deal...
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On August 09 2013 08:56 Highways wrote:
At the end of the day this is all Blizzards fault:
1. Badly designed game - Comparing SC2 to BW is comparing a turd to a masterpiece. SC2 skill level is too low, barely any micro as the AI will micro for you, put everything on one hotkey and attack move, deathballs and a very very badly designed warp gate which kills the fun out of any Protoss matchup.
2. Blizzard money hungry While other companies like Riot are paying events organisers to host the game, Blizzard is demanding loyalties to broadcast the turd of a game that is SC2. Not only do they demand royalties, they even give the pillars of Starcraft a lawsuit (OGN and MBC Game).
The only hope for SC2 is for Blizzard to:
- Increase the skill gap and redesign Protoss in LotV
- Actually support and promote the game rather than being money hungry bastards
- Region lock WCS to support local growth (make Korea WCS have the biggest prize pool)
- Fix up battle.net to make it more social
agree^∞
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On August 09 2013 08:56 Quotidian wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 08:52 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:49 Quotidian wrote:On August 09 2013 08:45 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:43 Quotidian wrote:On August 09 2013 08:40 dutchfriese wrote:On August 09 2013 08:36 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:31 dutchfriese wrote: Keep in mind without wc3 and blizzard and the old aeon of strife games that date back to brood war, it's entirely possible there is no such thing as lol/dota 2 today. huh? what does this have to do with the fact starcraft is harder game than dota 2? I'm not following. how is this relevant. It's already common knowledge that Blizzard didn't have the presence of mind to capitalize on Dota's popularity. Alleged Blizz insiders have even claimed that blizzard thought the mod was a "joke." There's no reason to give them any credit for Dota's success lol . I was telling you about how dota was created. I realize blizzard didn't create the game, but they created the map editor it was made on, and the reason it became so popular is because it was easier to play than it's cousin wc3. There are a lot of games that are easier to play than DOTA but are less popular. Did I just blow your mind? How is it so hard to understand that difficulty and game popularity have a tenuous correlation at best? It is really pathetic how defensive people are about SC2 as if there has to be some sort of positive justification for playing a different game. "He plays DOTA instead of SC2... but he only does it because DOTA is easier and he isn't man enough to play SC2!" never said anything of that nature. I was saying that dota 2 is enjoyable to a greater amount of people than sc2 because it's an easier game to play. A lot of people don't play sc2 because they see it as a chore and don't enjoy themselves. I can even prove this with brood war vs sc2. The reason sc2 is way more popular globally than brood war was is because sc2 itself is WAY easier to play than brood war was, hence more people enjoy themselves while playing the game, which leads to more people playing an a regular basis. that's hardly proof. SC2's success over BW can just as easily be attributed to hype, pc gaming being more mainstream and more money spent on marketing just because blizzard marketed it doesn't mean people were going to play it on a regular basis. I know around 8 people who all bought the game and haven't played since the first 2 months of WoL. The hype sure didn't them to continue playing. again, not relevant. You were talking about success, not longevity. This is pointless, you're bad at arguing. I'm switching back to TI3 scream not relevant all you want, i can't think critically for you, sorry. not for yourself either, it seems. Simple observations isn't proof of anything.
it's what inspires proof. i thought the proof was obvious, maybe you're the clueless one. the proof is wc3 vs dota, like i've already told you numerous times. There is FAR more necessary apm to win in a wc3 game vs a dota game, therefore it is a harder game to play. You really can't understand this?
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The hipster in me can embrace the idea of being the niche crowd. Just look at the broodwar fans and how cool they are :b
Overall this is sad news though, but like Geoff says, I am okay with being a fan of a top 5 game. Starcraft 2 will never cease to be amazing to me. I love this community and it's fans (most of em anyway). That won't change, as long as they broadcast sc2, I will be watching.
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On August 09 2013 08:58 Ammanas wrote:
I still don't get why so many people care.
WCS is superior format to anything MLG could bring with ther weekend long tournaments.
I for one think that if I could choose between WCS and MLG, I would always choose WCS.
So yeah, they lose some subscribers, Starcraft will continue being awesome as always, big deal...
A lot of people view MLG as a bellwether of which games are doing well in NA. Whether this is true or not, there is a perception of this which is causing a bit of panic and feeds into the whole "SC2 is dying" pathology that we all know and love.
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On August 09 2013 08:56 Highways wrote:
At the end of the day this is all Blizzards fault:
1. Badly designed game - Comparing SC2 to BW is comparing a turd to a masterpiece. SC2 skill level is too low, barely any micro as the AI will micro for you, put everything on one hotkey and attack move, deathballs and a very very badly designed warp gate which kills the fun out of any Protoss matchup.
2. Blizzard money hungry While other companies like Riot are paying events organisers to host the game, Blizzard is demanding loyalties to broadcast the turd of a game that is SC2. Not only do they demand royalties, they even give the pillars of Starcraft a lawsuit (OGN and MBC Game).
Your opinion about the game and actually BW was dead outside of Korea for a long time [Release of WC3: 2002] must be because of it's terrible gamedesign..
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On August 09 2013 08:56 Highways wrote:
At the end of the day this is all Blizzards fault:
1. Badly designed game - Comparing SC2 to BW is comparing a turd to a masterpiece. SC2 skill level is too low, barely any micro as the AI will micro for you, put everything on one hotkey and attack move, deathballs and a very very badly designed warp gate which kills the fun out of any Protoss matchup.
2. Blizzard money hungry While other companies like Riot are paying events organisers to host the game, Blizzard is demanding loyalties to broadcast the turd of a game that is SC2. Not only do they demand royalties, they even give the pillars of Starcraft a lawsuit (OGN and MBC Game).
The only hope for SC2 is for Blizzard to:
- Increase the skill gap and redesign Protoss in LotV
- Actually support and promote the game rather than being money hungry bastards
- Region lock WCS to support local growth (make Korea WCS have the biggest prize pool)
- Fix up battle.net to make it more social
This has to be the worst post in this entire thread. Especially the part about Blizzard being 'money hungry' and Riot being somekind of a benevolent benefactor when the truth is anything but. Your suggestions on how to 'fix SC2' are also completely out of touch. If anything, SC2 has to become easier and less focused on 1v1. In short, it has to become even less like BW.
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On August 09 2013 09:00 JacobShock wrote:
The hipster in me can embrace the idea of being the niche crowd. Just look at the broodwar fans and how cool they are :b
Overall this is sad news though, but like Geoff says, I am okay with being a fan of a top 5 game. Starcraft 2 will never cease to be amazing to me. I love this community and it's fans (most of em anyway). That won't change, as long as they broadcast sc2, I will be watching.
The problem with being a top 5 game is that the skill level will drop dramatically. If you think North Americans are bad at SC2 now, just wait in another year. There will not be any full-time pros in North America. Fans have already proven that they don't care about low level play.
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On August 09 2013 09:04 BlackPanther wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 09:00 JacobShock wrote:
The hipster in me can embrace the idea of being the niche crowd. Just look at the broodwar fans and how cool they are :b
Overall this is sad news though, but like Geoff says, I am okay with being a fan of a top 5 game. Starcraft 2 will never cease to be amazing to me. I love this community and it's fans (most of em anyway). That won't change, as long as they broadcast sc2, I will be watching. The problem with being a top 5 game is that the skill level will drop dramatically. If you think North Americans are bad at SC2 now, just wait in another year. There will not be any full-time pros in North America. Fans have already proven that they don't care about low level play.
they have proven they do not care about boring koreans
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On August 09 2013 09:00 JacobShock wrote:
The hipster in me can embrace the idea of being the niche crowd. Just look at the broodwar fans and how cool they are :b
Overall this is sad news though, but like Geoff says, I am okay with being a fan of a top 5 game. Starcraft 2 will never cease to be amazing to me. I love this community and it's fans (most of em anyway). That won't change, as long as they broadcast sc2, I will be watching.
This is a good attitude to have. I am okay with being a fan of a top 100 game if I love the game. As long as the game retains enough people to have a functional ladder matchmaker and well-commentated streamed games I will be content.
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On August 09 2013 09:05 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 09:04 BlackPanther wrote:On August 09 2013 09:00 JacobShock wrote:
The hipster in me can embrace the idea of being the niche crowd. Just look at the broodwar fans and how cool they are :b
Overall this is sad news though, but like Geoff says, I am okay with being a fan of a top 5 game. Starcraft 2 will never cease to be amazing to me. I love this community and it's fans (most of em anyway). That won't change, as long as they broadcast sc2, I will be watching. The problem with being a top 5 game is that the skill level will drop dramatically. If you think North Americans are bad at SC2 now, just wait in another year. There will not be any full-time pros in North America. Fans have already proven that they don't care about low level play. they have proven they do not care about boring koreans
Which is why Shoutcraft America did so well in comparison to MLG's where the top 8 was all korean....
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On August 09 2013 09:01 Cyrak wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 08:58 Ammanas wrote:
I still don't get why so many people care.
WCS is superior format to anything MLG could bring with ther weekend long tournaments.
I for one think that if I could choose between WCS and MLG, I would always choose WCS.
So yeah, they lose some subscribers, Starcraft will continue being awesome as always, big deal... A lot of people view MLG as a bellwether of which games are doing well in NA. Whether this is true or not, there is a perception of this which is causing a bit of panic and feeds into the whole "SC2 is dying" pathology that we all know and love.
lol that's weird. MLG is just a showcase of 'this developer pays more marketing money than this developer'. SC2 was their ONLY game that they had to actually pay for, because it was so big. Now it's still as big, but there are also bigger (and the LoL bubble will pop, just like SC2 did), so now they don't need to pay for it... that's all there is to it.
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On August 09 2013 08:56 Highways wrote:
At the end of the day this is all Blizzards fault:
1. Badly designed game - Comparing SC2 to BW is comparing a turd to a masterpiece. SC2 skill level is too low, barely any micro as the AI will micro for you, put everything on one hotkey and attack move, deathballs and a very very badly designed warp gate which kills the fun out of any Protoss matchup.
2. Blizzard money hungry While other companies like Riot are paying events organisers to host the game, Blizzard is demanding loyalties to broadcast the turd of a game that is SC2. Not only do they demand royalties, they even give the pillars of Starcraft a lawsuit (OGN and MBC Game).
The only hope for SC2 is for Blizzard to:
- Increase the skill gap and redesign Protoss in LotV
- Actually support and promote the game rather than being money hungry bastards
- Region lock WCS to support local growth (make Korea WCS have the biggest prize pool)
- Fix up battle.net to make it more social
Wow what a retarded post. Nothing in your post makes sense.
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On August 09 2013 08:56 Highways wrote:
At the end of the day this is all Blizzards fault:
1. Badly designed game - Comparing SC2 to BW is comparing a turd to a masterpiece. SC2 skill level is too low, barely any micro as the AI will micro for you, put everything on one hotkey and attack move, deathballs and a very very badly designed warp gate which kills the fun out of any Protoss matchup.
2. Blizzard money hungry While other companies like Riot are paying events organisers to host the game, Blizzard is demanding loyalties to broadcast the turd of a game that is SC2. Not only do they demand royalties, they even give the pillars of Starcraft a lawsuit (OGN and MBC Game).
The only hope for SC2 is for Blizzard to:
- Increase the skill gap and redesign Protoss in LotV
- Actually support and promote the game rather than being money hungry bastards
- Region lock WCS to support local growth (make Korea WCS have the biggest prize pool)
- Fix up battle.net to make it more social
I wonder if all these TL leeches just have a big word document that they barf templates like this into so that they can spam every thread that reaches ten pages or more?
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On August 09 2013 09:06 Ammanas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 09:01 Cyrak wrote:On August 09 2013 08:58 Ammanas wrote:
I still don't get why so many people care.
WCS is superior format to anything MLG could bring with ther weekend long tournaments.
I for one think that if I could choose between WCS and MLG, I would always choose WCS.
So yeah, they lose some subscribers, Starcraft will continue being awesome as always, big deal... A lot of people view MLG as a bellwether of which games are doing well in NA. Whether this is true or not, there is a perception of this which is causing a bit of panic and feeds into the whole "SC2 is dying" pathology that we all know and love. (and the LoL bubble will pop, just like SC2 did)
I doubt it, honestly. LoL has a player based at least ten times bigger than SC2, and Riot has nothing else to fall back on so you know they're going to be all in until they run out of money. those are huge factors that SC2 never had (and never will have) going for it.
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EPT
