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No Starcraft 2 at MLG Columbus (so far) - Page 11

Forum Index > SC2 General
1123 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 57 Next
Larkin
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United Kingdom7161 Posts
August 08 2013 14:34 GMT
#201
That would suck massively, but they gotta do what's best.
https://www.twitch.tv/ttalarkin - streams random stuff, high level teamleague, maybe even heroleague
Zenatsu
Profile Joined February 2011
100 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-08 14:43:08
August 08 2013 14:34 GMT
#202
Do you know all the games MLG has supported in the past, that are now gone?

Did you know Quake, counter-strike, Street fighter, marvel, and halo were all games MLG had prize pools for?
(and more I may not have listed)
Did you know Halo is the most recent game to be dropped by MLG? (Replaced by League of legends)
Did you know the Fighting game community is still kicking? (EVO is a good start, along with many smaller tournaments)

This is the nature of MLG. They take games in, and then they drop them. It -could- to be to replace them with bigger, better games, that generate the biggest revenue (I.E You, the viewer, to come to MLG or buy their subscription). or it -could- be based on what their community wants to see the most (The louder the community, and the more money it throw at MLG, the more likely they would show it).

It doesn't surprise me that League exploded like it did, after MLG picked it up. I remember in providence Rhode Island, it started in a dark corner with maybe 10-20 computers. No big screen. Then LoL ultimately took over Halo's stage, and SC2 remained the center piece, COD being the tertiary game.

SC2, in my opinion, wont be dropped. Since the backlash of the community my force MLG to show it at Columbus. But yelling won't get you a whole lot, and will make the community as a whole look like whiny infants wanting their milk (kind of like how COD are known for raging when they lose. AKA COD kids). Instead, if you want to see your game at MLG, support them, buy their T-shirts, their gold membership, their subscritptions on twitch. Support MLG and support SC2. Show them that SC2 can still generate revenue.

edit: i'm not saying SC2 is losing them money, or that it isnt generating revenue, but I am saying its a possible factor, since in the end its about paying the bills, emplyee's, etc. I dont know the whole MLG-Blizzard drama, so I wont comment on it.
NovemberstOrm
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Canada16217 Posts
August 08 2013 14:36 GMT
#203
On August 08 2013 23:32 v_lm wrote:
On the bright side, the french producer of Iron Squid just gave hints that there will be a third edition within 6 months

Oh that's exciting :D
Moderatorlickypiddy
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
August 08 2013 14:41 GMT
#204
On August 08 2013 23:34 Zenatsu wrote:
Do you know all the games MLG has supported in the past, that are now gone?

Did you know Quake, counter-strike, Street fighter, marvel, and halo were all games MLG had prize pools for?
(and more I may not have listed)
Did you know Halo is the most recent game to be dropped by MLG? (Replaced by League of legends)
Did you know the Fighting game community is still kicking? (EVO is a good start, along with many smaller tournaments)

This is the nature of MLG. They take games in, and then they drop them. It -could- to be to replace them with bigger, better games, that generate the biggest revenue (I.E You, the viewer, to come to MLG or buy their subscription). or it -could- be based on what their community wants to see the most (The louder the community, and the more money it throw at MLG, the more likely they would show it).

It doesn't surprise me that League exploded like it did, after MLG picked it up. I remember in providence Rhode Island, it started in a dark corner with maybe 10-20 computers. No big screen. Then LoL ultimately took over Halo's stage, and SC2 remained the center piece, COD being the tertiary game.

SC2, in my opinion, wont be dropped. Since the backlash of the community my force MLG to show it at Columbus. But yelling won't get you a whole lot, and will make the community as a whole look like whiny infants wanting their milk (kind of like how COD are known for raging when they lose. AKA COD kids). Instead, if you want to see your game at MLG, support them, buy their T-shirts, their gold membership, their subscritptions on twitch. Support MLG and support SC2. Show them that SC2 can still generate revenue.


Halo died when MLG dropped it. The Fighting games case is unique, because they're not Esport games to begin with anyway.
Starcraft can live okay with only the european and the korean scene, it's not like the game is gonna vanish any time soon.

But seriously, what do you expect people to do ? Say " It's okay, we'll have a event next time. No big deal. " ?
Why do people and especially Esport personalities are surprised that people are angry and scared about this ?

" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
marcesr
Profile Joined June 2008
Germany1383 Posts
August 08 2013 14:42 GMT
#205
Whoop and there we go. What Ive been saying for almost 2 years is slowly becoming true.

SC2 has no future on the big stage in EU and NA if we keep playing out Top 16 Korean brackets.

20k hardcore fans who go nuts no matter who plays as long as the ingame moves are awesome are not enough to support the scene.
We need the guys who tune in once a month for the big show at MLG/Dreamhack etc. These guys want to see players like Idra, Stephano, Grubby, Naniwa, Incontrol, MC, Flash and Jaedong. They need storylines which are super easy to follow, they dont need Top 20 random Korean bullshit.

When will you finally get that?
Every single mainstream competition in the western world works like that.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-08 14:47:05
August 08 2013 14:43 GMT
#206
On August 08 2013 23:18 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2013 23:15 turdburgler wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:11 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:05 turdburgler wrote:
[
On August 08 2013 23:04 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
On August 08 2013 23:04 Lysanias wrote:
On August 08 2013 22:58 XaCez wrote:
So, let's see what has changed in the NA scene:
IPL: Gone.
MLG: Gone.
NASL: Works with WCS.
WCS: Koreans.

Missed something?


There is SHOUTcraft NA ?


There was.

Whether or not there will be another is not something we know as of now.


if you look at the figures posted by TB after shoutcraft, the whole thing would be profitable if the prize money was actually in line with the quality of play. the people who competed in that event were massively over paid. and thats not being critical of TB, they needed to put on an event people would care about, and to catch interest for a new brand, but the difference between the cost and the income for that was about 50% of the prize pool.


Which is completely against the point, seeing as ShoutCraft NA was brought up in the context of the NA scene, not just as a tournament in general.

I mean don't get me wrong, I agree with you, but if "the people who competed in that event were massively over paid", as you put it, is our way of thinking, then there are two solutions:

a) same players, but paid less (which means less money going into the NA scene)
b) better players, a.k.a. no longer NA players, or at least a roster comprised only partially of NA players

Both of which would be detrimental, again, to the NA scene from XaCez' original post.



if you look at it as an event that goes side by side with more major competitions, and a salary from their team (even if its small. when you want to purely sustain the scene, which was TBs goal, the money you are looking at paying out is probably in the region of $2000 for first place, the actual pay out with $8000 iirc. so sure, if you want to sustain a competitive market purely on TBs charity, 8k seems reasonable. but if you see shoutcraft as something to be along side many other major leagues, and a team system with sponsorship of its own, you can cut the prize funding a lot, as long as the event is fairly regular, bimonthly or so.


Agreed, but currently there aren't "many other major leagues" in the NA scene (which again was the point XaCez was originally making). And I'd also have to ask: if SHOUTCraft became a regular thing, would it keep drawing the same attention every time? And if so, wouldn't that still be a lesser amount than the first SHOUTCraft NA did? (obviously because it came at the right time, had good hype going for it, and an interesting approach in presentation as far as interviews went)


The scene hasn't changed much over the years. If you truly want to be a pro gamer you sort of have to go where all the action is and that isn't for everyone. As the scene stands right now there are only a handful of NA players that I would invest in. Very few. TB already spoke out about the last NA SHOUTCraft, which was less than ideal for him and there were several reasons. It's odd because what you just said is contrary to what I remember lol.

On August 08 2013 23:42 marcesr wrote:
Whoop and there we go. What Ive been saying for almost 2 years is slowly becoming true.

SC2 has no future on the big stage in EU and NA if we keep playing out Top 16 Korean brackets.

20k hardcore fans who go nuts no matter who plays as long as the ingame moves are awesome are not enough to support the scene.
We need the guys who tune in once a month for the big show at MLG/Dreamhack etc. These guys want to see players like Idra, Stephano, Grubby, Naniwa, Incontrol, MC, Flash and Jaedong. They need storylines which are super easy to follow, they dont need Top 20 random Korean bullshit.

When will you finally get that?
Every single mainstream competition in the western world works like that.


That isn't true at all because the scene. This is the direction the scene would go all along. You have to accept the scene for what it is and what it is not. There has been a lot of consistency market wise for quite some time. This is no excuse to start saying, "The sky is falling." Because it isn't. You certainly don't speak for the people when it comes to what they want to see.
plgElwood
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany518 Posts
August 08 2013 14:43 GMT
#207
calling it MLG Columbus 2014, Angry Birds comp
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
gasmeter
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United Kingdom249 Posts
August 08 2013 14:43 GMT
#208
Interesting decision. I wish MLG would announce things a little more professionally than a tweet. This gives us no information about why the decision has been made.
Polt | MMA | MarineKing | Flash | Mvp | NesTea | INnoVation
Jakkerr
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands2549 Posts
August 08 2013 14:44 GMT
#209
Not surprised, it's all about fan and viewerbase. And the cold harth truth is that the SC2 viewerbase isn't even at 30% of LoL and DoTA anymore.
Kleinmuuhg
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Vanuatu4091 Posts
August 08 2013 14:45 GMT
#210
On August 08 2013 23:34 Zenatsu wrote:
Do you know all the games MLG has supported in the past, that are now gone?

Did you know Quake, counter-strike, Street fighter, marvel, and halo were all games MLG had prize pools for?
(and more I may not have listed)
Did you know Halo is the most recent game to be dropped by MLG? (Replaced by League of legends)
Did you know the Fighting game community is still kicking? (EVO is a good start, along with many smaller tournaments)

This is the nature of MLG. They take games in, and then they drop them. It -could- to be to replace them with bigger, better games, that generate the biggest revenue (I.E You, the viewer, to come to MLG or buy their subscription). or it -could- be based on what their community wants to see the most (The louder the community, and the more money it throw at MLG, the more likely they would show it).

It doesn't surprise me that League exploded like it did, after MLG picked it up. I remember in providence Rhode Island, it started in a dark corner with maybe 10-20 computers. No big screen. Then LoL ultimately took over Halo's stage, and SC2 remained the center piece, COD being the tertiary game.

SC2, in my opinion, wont be dropped. Since the backlash of the community my force MLG to show it at Columbus. But yelling won't get you a whole lot, and will make the community as a whole look like whiny infants wanting their milk (kind of like how COD are known for raging when they lose. AKA COD kids). Instead, if you want to see your game at MLG, support them, buy their T-shirts, their gold membership, their subscritptions on twitch. Support MLG and support SC2. Show them that SC2 can still generate revenue.

edit: i'm not saying SC2 is losing them money, or that it isnt generating revenue, but I am saying its a possible factor, since in the end its about paying the bills, emplyee's, etc. I dont know the whole MLG-Blizzard drama, so I wont comment on it.

So as a reaction to MLG dropping SC2 you are suggesting to spend money on their merchandise? I see the logic you are trying to apply, but sorry, nobody should throw money at this organisation hoping to maybe get something back.
This is our town, scrub
Prog455
Profile Joined April 2012
Denmark970 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-08 14:53:43
August 08 2013 14:45 GMT
#211
On August 08 2013 22:22 SpecialistSc wrote:
simply put, sc2 is not a investment that's worth any more
just look at the viewer count
a single LoL pro's stream gets more views than WCS America premiere league early stages

So WHY invest in sc2? MLG good job, nobody can blame you guys for making a sensical decision


SC2 recently had +200.000 viewers at an MLG.

EDIT: It would appear that this number is not correct. It was more like 120.000. Still pretty higher nevertheless.
birchman
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Sweden393 Posts
August 08 2013 14:46 GMT
#212
Good thing there is so many other events to watch.
Oh, the usual. I bowl. Drive around. The occasional acid flashback.
Glioburd
Profile Joined April 2008
France1911 Posts
August 08 2013 14:46 GMT
#213
A big information like that on a tweet ? I thought SC2 still had a lot of sucess (relatively).
"You should hate loosing, but you should never fear defeat." NaDa.
ZAiNs
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom6525 Posts
August 08 2013 14:46 GMT
#214
On August 08 2013 23:42 marcesr wrote:
Whoop and there we go. What Ive been saying for almost 2 years is slowly becoming true.

SC2 has no future on the big stage in EU and NA if we keep playing out Top 16 Korean brackets.

20k hardcore fans who go nuts no matter who plays as long as the ingame moves are awesome are not enough to support the scene.
We need the guys who tune in once a month for the big show at MLG/Dreamhack etc. These guys want to see players like Idra, Stephano, Grubby, Naniwa, Incontrol, MC, Flash and Jaedong. They need storylines which are super easy to follow, they dont need Top 20 random Korean bullshit.

When will you finally get that?
Every single mainstream competition in the western world works like that.

Grouping Incontrol with Flash? lol
Elasticity
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
3420 Posts
August 08 2013 14:46 GMT
#215
I hoep they dont jump the dota train. Dota is better off without MLG -_-
TigerKarl
Profile Joined November 2010
1757 Posts
August 08 2013 14:46 GMT
#216
On August 08 2013 23:42 marcesr wrote:
Whoop and there we go. What Ive been saying for almost 2 years is slowly becoming true.

SC2 has no future on the big stage in EU and NA if we keep playing out Top 16 Korean brackets.

20k hardcore fans who go nuts no matter who plays as long as the ingame moves are awesome are not enough to support the scene.
We need the guys who tune in once a month for the big show at MLG/Dreamhack etc. These guys want to see players like Idra, Stephano, Grubby, Naniwa, Incontrol, MC, Flash and Jaedong. They need storylines which are super easy to follow, they dont need Top 20 random Korean bullshit.

When will you finally get that?
Every single mainstream competition in the western world works like that.

It's sad that it has come this far. SC2 needs some kind of big infusion, otherwise it will die, and with the massive fails of Blizzard in terms of their WCS and the game being really boring and lonely to play, i can't say they don't deserve it, the had it coming honestly.
Zenatsu
Profile Joined February 2011
100 Posts
August 08 2013 14:47 GMT
#217
On August 08 2013 23:41 Noocta wrote:
Halo died when MLG dropped it. The Fighting games case is unique, because they're not Esport games to begin with anyway.
Starcraft can live okay with only the european and the korean scene, it's not like the game is gonna vanish any time soon.

But seriously, what do you expect people to do ? Say " It's okay, we'll have a event next time. No big deal. " ?
Why do people and especially Esport personalities are surprised that people are angry and scared about this ?


Your halo point is true, but the fighting scene is still alive and well. MLG could revive a good portion of the fighting game community, however the fans are pretty toxic (the players themselves are mannered).

I don't think anyone is surprised that people are angry when their favorite game to watch is getting the plug (from their favorite tournament none the less). However, the logic and reasoning, and all the conspiracy people toss about is fun to watch.
radscorpion9
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada2252 Posts
August 08 2013 14:47 GMT
#218
Yup, SC2 is just being reduced to a lower and lower level. People like to think of it now as a game that has large off seasons compared to what it was before to make themselves feel better . What would be really nice is to see the total viewership numbers for the major tournaments since 2010 or so and analyze whether its plateaued or not. Also the number of players of SC2 in general throughout the seasons...I'm going to see if I can find anything.

Also I think many people find the prospect of SC2 dying to be exciting because its dramatic, and this community loves drama (I do too to be honest ). Although I would miss SC2 if it actually died because there isn't much to replace it with.
Nuclease
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1049 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-08 14:49:29
August 08 2013 14:47 GMT
#219
eSports is dead, it's official.

SC2 is done.

One event is not holding SC2, it must be that we will never see our beloved eSport live again.

It's only a matter of time until LoL takes over the minds of every man, woman, and child in America. Maybe even the world. At which point their true Communistic plot will usurp the current world order and enslave the human race.
Zealots, not zee-lots. | Never forget, KTViolet, Go)Space. | You will never be as good as By.Flash, and your drops will never be as sick as MMA.
Dundron2000
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden1140 Posts
August 08 2013 14:47 GMT
#220
honestly with WCS going on constantly in three regions what are you chances you can get quality players to show up to an MLG event, it would be a complete gamble.
n.Die_Jaedong
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