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Italy12246 Posts
On August 27 2013 01:33 Kaleidos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 01:28 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 27 2013 01:24 KalWarkov wrote:On August 27 2013 01:22 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 27 2013 01:21 KalWarkov wrote:
PvZ impossible on Polar Night, 1 game and downvote Don't remind me of my wall-in that included natural's CC as part of it (as a terran, obv). Also, what exactly is impossible? Wall-in? i believe it is possible, but hard as **** to do on bottom spawn. walling in is fine when u use brain. taking a 3rd is impossible though Why exactly? And no, argument 'i want to take 3rd with 1 sentry, 1 zealot in wall and 1 MSC' does not work. The 3rd with rocks looks super safe to take as P/T.
They force you to go out in the open with your army and stand there for a long amount of time, giving you two choices:
a) Go out too early, remain out of position for a long time and risk losing all your sentries (or forcing T to delay their third until they have enough marines to clear the rocks)
b) Go out later than usual and end up behind in macro
Additionally, rocks at the third base outright kill any kind of fast third build for P, without anything to compensate.
Finally, all that air space makes mutas and drops INSANELY strong, more so than even Star Station and Derelict Watcher (which is impressive)
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 27 2013 02:02 KingAlphard wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 01:28 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 27 2013 01:24 KalWarkov wrote:On August 27 2013 01:22 lolfail9001 wrote:On August 27 2013 01:21 KalWarkov wrote:
PvZ impossible on Polar Night, 1 game and downvote Don't remind me of my wall-in that included natural's CC as part of it (as a terran, obv). Also, what exactly is impossible? Wall-in? i believe it is possible, but hard as **** to do on bottom spawn. walling in is fine when u use brain. taking a 3rd is impossible though Why exactly? And no, argument 'i want to take 3rd with 1 sentry, 1 zealot in wall and 1 MSC' does not work. The only third you can take is the one in the corner. You need to break 2 rocks to get it but even with a FFE into phoenix opening (which is the worst to break rocks) I could start my nexus at 10:00 which is decent. It's a safe third, but you still can't take it too early, unlike Akilon wastes.
Taking third too early together with easy 4 bases is the main reason Akilon sucks (especially considering, that getting 5th on that map is painful as zerg, unless you go full Soulkey and double expand@10:00 against void ray into 3 stargates into zealot archon void ray with storm). Also, alternative third (i am talking the one on the side, not one forward to opponent) is not star station open either IMO.
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On August 27 2013 00:35 GumBa wrote:
So the new maps any good? Reviews out of a terran perspective?
Frost is horrible to play. It's so huge that you will have hard time pressuring Protoss/Zerg whilst they can do pretty much anything they want. Then again, it's so big that Zerg will have hard time defending drops in the lategame. Protoss can still teleport units all around the damn map.
Polar Nights is pretty huge as well. Coupled with the fact that if the rock base is taken as a fourth it will be pretty much undroppable. Neither of the maps strikes me as a favorable for Terran. Maybe Frost on some spawns is slightly better, but Cross is such a pain.
The 3rd map feels pretty okayish for both match ups.
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yeonsu is a good map for ambush and flank tactics as opposed to 1 control group army movement. lots of ways to reposition your army and a few places where you can overextend and get caught from multiple angles. having good spotting seems fairly important on this map.
frost is more traditional SC2 map design in that you can kind of just waltz out into the middle with your whole army and kind of just spot in front of you since theres not many ways for the enemy to move behind your army without you knowing and there's a lot of open space, making flanks a little less threatening.
i think that polar night does promote aggressive strategies since the middle of the map is so open and focused on the high ground that controlling it is just a matter of numbers rather than tactics. if you take control of either of the watchtowers, it's going to be much easier to deny your opponent from expanding further or moving out to deny your expansions. so i wouldn't say that it's "hard to take a third base," but i think the best way to get it is to work for it by getting aggressive.
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So on that frost map, protoss can wall off with 2 pylons just above my ramp and cannon rush me?
okay lol, guess that's one easy veto
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On August 27 2013 04:09 Aocowns wrote:
So on that frost map, protoss can wall off with 2 pylons just above my ramp and cannon rush me?
okay lol, guess that's one easy veto
Screenshots, please.
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May be wrong, but I think on frost you can cannon rush behind a zergs mineral line.
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On August 27 2013 04:50 S1eth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 04:09 Aocowns wrote:
So on that frost map, protoss can wall off with 2 pylons just above my ramp and cannon rush me?
okay lol, guess that's one easy veto Screenshots, please.
edit: I'm not the guy that was complaining, I just have pictures.
Cannons at the top of the ramp, fully walled:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MBh4TLH.png)
Cannon at the natural, fully walled:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vyJWWh9.png)
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 27 2013 05:05 InfCereal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 04:50 S1eth wrote:On August 27 2013 04:09 Aocowns wrote:
So on that frost map, protoss can wall off with 2 pylons just above my ramp and cannon rush me?
okay lol, guess that's one easy veto Screenshots, please. Cannons at the top of the ramp, fully walled: Cannon at the natural, fully walled:
Way too much surface area for it to be something imbalanced IMO.
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Cheese is possible, therefore map is bad?
Also, a cannon rush, starting at your ramp, means that both you and your opponent are kinda dumb. Why this would be the reason for a veto escapes me.
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I get too mad over stupid shit like that when it does happen that it's worth keeping it. Like fuck me if I'm going to sit there keeping vision of my ramp in case the protoss decides to cannon rush it. You have to react pretty much instantly if you're going to deny on top of the ramp it seemed to me. Happened the very first time I played it  I immediatly flashbacked to the days where there were no depots on ramps
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 27 2013 05:22 Aocowns wrote:I get too mad over stupid shit like that when it does happen that it's worth keeping it. Like fuck me if I'm going to sit there keeping vision of my ramp in case the protoss decides to cannon rush it. You have to react pretty much instantly if you're going to deny on top of the ramp it seemed to me. Happened the very first time I played it I immediatly flashbacked to the days where there were no depots on ramps
Your problems, you miss out on really great map :D
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I like the new maps, but blink is waaaaaay too strong against terran (and probably in pvp too). Just the danger of blink allins is too big here. there is so much surface area to cover, it simply can´t be done and it´s hard to figure out if your opponent actually goes for blink if you are not that lucky to scout the twillight. I wonder when mapmakers will start to put this ability into account, creating maps. All of them are like Antiga Shipyard in this regard, but with way bigger main bases, which even increases the strength of blink....
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blink actually seems really weak on polar night since all terrans go for like 3/4 raxes before factory on this map with the short distances...Oracle proxies are what you have to watch out for there.
1 base terran play is pretty brutal on this map, still haven't figured out a way to stop it (low masters atm) The timing on a 2 rax 2 medivac push on this map off 1 base is insane with the short distances, not even nexus cannon can save you since elevator is so easy.
I think I have to veto it until there is a way to stop the 1 base play. Every terran is starting to catch on and doing it
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i wish the new maps didn't have watch towers, improves the quality of a map so much not having free vision of a large part of the map ;_; RIP Neo Planet S
I think Frost would be better if it served as a replacement to Whirlwind, but having two large 4 player macro maps is a bit much. I also wish there were some three spawn maps ;x
Polar Night seems like it would be a nightmare as protoss but Yeonsu is like a protoss dream map for blink all-ins D:
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On August 27 2013 09:19 VayneAuthority wrote:
blink actually seems really weak on polar night since all terrans go for like 3/4 raxes before factory on this map with the short distances...Oracle proxies are what you have to watch out for there.
1 base terran play is pretty brutal on this map, still haven't figured out a way to stop it (low masters atm) The timing on a 2 rax 2 medivac push on this map off 1 base is insane with the short distances, not even nexus cannon can save you since elevator is so easy.
I think I have to veto it until there is a way to stop the 1 base play. Every terran is starting to catch on and doing it
I for myself try to train my mechanics, not to play abusive builds D:
and the way the mainbases are setup on those maps is just an invitation for the protoss to blink in and do serious dmg...
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Polar Night is A Polar Nightmare... I already vetoed it such a hard map.
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Polar nights is awful. I can't believe someone would make such a map in 2013.
-Open ass third
-Forward expansions and few of them
-rocks everywhere
-abusable cannon positions.
Might as well call it Xelnaga Caverns Part II.
Ugh.
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Polar night is horrible.
Played first games on it,Protoss night no thank you.
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On August 27 2013 23:16 shid0x wrote:
Polar night is horrible.
Played first games on it,Protoss night no thank you.
lol what? this map is completely terrible for protoss. As I already explained, there is an unstoppable 1 base push a lot of terrans are already abusing on this map at masters.
PvZ there is a joke too.
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EPT
