EPTMaphack and the problems with protection from it - Page 15
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KnowMe
Germany228 Posts
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Jade
Poland289 Posts
On July 31 2013 22:40 SpecialistSc wrote: + Show Spoiler + The only FAIR solution is this: EVERYONE map hacks in ONLINE tournaments. In online environment, no one is there to actually see if a person map hacks. So if the MHer just acts intelligently enough to not get caught, there simply is no way of knowing whether he hacked or not. Or in the case of imbatoss where he acts so blatantly that he hacked, we can't still prove him 100% guilty. SO WHY NOT everyone just map hack in online tournaments? This seems to be the only fair way. I bet a lot of pros including WCS premiere LAN participants have used MH in online qualification (just a personal thought but when you think about it, it is very feasible). You cannot say simply because a person has LAN result, he won't map hack. MH will give him extra edge in online tournaments without practically any risks. So to make my point short, Maphacking and getting caught = extremely low chance Maphacking's benefit = extremely high = everyone should be at least tempted to map hack. it's only a matter of time before everyone is smart enough to do so That it is "smart" and has high beneficts doesn't mean its the right thing to do, it isn't a moral thing to do, it destroys competition, makes it unfair for those who actually practice hard to do well in those tournaments and get money for example to save up to spend it to go to a LAN tournament like f.e. Dreamhack and make a splash there. "= everyone should be at least tempted to map hack." everyone would like to have things easier and get free money and benefits, but that doesn't mean its the RIGHT thing to do. Smart=/=Right/Moral/Honorable , but sadly, that's how some things work in life. On July 31 2013 22:45 KnowMe wrote: wow. in my opinion your opinion should be reason enough for a ban 1000 times this. | ||
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Durmaz21
Sweden52 Posts
meh, probably never going to happen. but i would love to see this in the next expansion. it would completely remove the issue of hacking and make the game less luck based (at least in games where fog of war is disabled). | ||
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Khalum
Austria831 Posts
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GodOfWarAReS
Germany105 Posts
i just watched some of his games and its soooo funny :D he Never scouts and always has the perfect response. funniest is his pvp. hes not afraid to send his units all over the map to kill proxy pylons / probes / stargates. one unit by one. just straight up over the map, even if he doesnt cover every path, he knows where the proxys are. he just knows whats coming at him in every match up. he doesnt scout he just knows it and he always has the perfect response. hes never catched offguard. when a fight will happen in the next 10 seconds he doesnt look away from his army. he knows its coming. maphacker 100% | ||
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Specialist
United States803 Posts
On July 31 2013 22:48 SearchEU wrote: That it is "smart" and has high beneficts doesn't mean its the right thing to do, it isn't a moral thing to do, it destroys competition, makes it unfair for those who actually practice hard to do well in those tournaments and get money for example to save up to spend it to go to a LAN tournament like f.e. Dreamhack and make a splash there. "= everyone should be at least tempted to map hack." everyone would like to have things easier and get free money and benefits, but that doesn't mean its the RIGHT thing to do. Smart=/=Right/Moral/Honorable , but sadly, that's how some things work in life. 1000 times this. I know that of course it isn't right thing to do. In real life, there is law and police that has authority over people's wrong doings. In the game of starcraft, the law and police equivalent is blizzard company. However, they are not doing literally anything to prevent hacks. If at least, they showed some kind of visible efforts I wouldn't be as frustrated. I am in no shape of form accusing anybody of MH or encouraging MHing, it's just that it's so frutrating how blizzard isn't spending money fixing hackers and game but instead spends millions of money in failed WCS esports endeavors | ||
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Jade
Poland289 Posts
On July 31 2013 23:09 SpecialistSc wrote: + Show Spoiler + On July 31 2013 22:48 SearchEU wrote: That it is "smart" and has high beneficts doesn't mean its the right thing to do, it isn't a moral thing to do, it destroys competition, makes it unfair for those who actually practice hard to do well in those tournaments and get money for example to save up to spend it to go to a LAN tournament like f.e. Dreamhack and make a splash there. "= everyone should be at least tempted to map hack." everyone would like to have things easier and get free money and benefits, but that doesn't mean its the RIGHT thing to do. Smart=/=Right/Moral/Honorable , but sadly, that's how some things work in life. 1000 times this. I know that of course it isn't right thing to do. In real life, there is law and police that has authority over people's wrong doings. In the game of starcraft, the law and police equivalent is blizzard company. However, they are not doing literally anything to prevent hacks. If at least, they showed some kind of visible efforts I wouldn't be as frustrated. I am in no shape of form accusing anybody of MH or encouraging MHing, it's just that it's so frutrating how blizzard isn't spending money fixing hackers and game but instead spends millions of money in failed WCS esports endeavors I know mate  , its k | ||
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Gowerly
United Kingdom916 Posts
From looking at the replays and what people have suggested to look at, there's enough here to fulfill that burden of proof. When you look at this compared to other high level replays, there's a lot going on there that you don't see when watching someone else's replays. "Starsense" or whatever doesn't really cover what we're looking at. Watching other people you can see the patterns of their thought processes. Looking at these you can't see that. There's simply not enough information presented to warrant the decisions that are made in the games. In that respect, it would be good to see what the thought processes are and, if indeed there are no hacks in place, it should be simple enough to show them. Those are the same that anyone else would show, a game stream + cam. It's easy enough to track eye movements and mouse movements that way. | ||
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-IeZaeL-
Spain327 Posts
Proof: After 30-50 secs of game he had his nexus selected and then he had NOTHING selected. U can do this only if the unit u have selected dies. At this time HyuN was doing the 8pool........ gg. BUG? I dont think so. | ||
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TBO
Germany1350 Posts
On August 01 2013 00:50 -IeZaeL- wrote: I caught Imbatoss maphacking 1 year ago when we played for the same team ( Img ) was in a go4sc2 vs HyuN. HyuN started with a 8pool+banelings and ImbaToss ( withouth any scout) made a perfect wall with gate+forge+canons at his ramp xD. Proof: After 30-50 secs of game he had his nexus selected and then he had NOTHING selected. U can do this only if the unit u have selected dies. At this time HyuN was doing the 8pool........ gg. BUG? I dont think so. You can deselect a selected unit with shift clicking on it, to end up with no unit selected (I know it's unlikely he did that, but still it's possible). I always dislike when valid suspicion get mixed with false statements, it just weakens the argument. providing the replay, if you can find it, would be nice. Looking at the actions in sc2gears could reveal if he shift-deselected or used a badly programmed hack. | ||
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Voyage
Germany71 Posts
Of course this would require players to register accounts with their real names, To facilitate casual play an training this could be done by having two types of accounts: 1.Ladder accounts, similar to the already exisiting accounts 2. Tournament/Pro accounts, which are to be verified with personal info (maybe even IDs) Every player would be limited to one Tournament account in his lifetime. Prizes you win go to your account, so it is harder to use somebody else's. Tournaments could choose to require Tournament accounts for participation or not (in case of weekly and smaller tournaments). A problem arises, if big tournaments like WCS, decide to let you qualify based on ladder points. Another option for Blizzard would be, to allocate their resources differently: If it takes as long as it does currently to ban players, of which compromising replays exist en masse, maybe focus more on higher leagues (Master plus) than on lower leagues, where I assume most Maphackers reside. Right now the banning process is too slow anyways to ban MHs, who quickly climb the ladder. So better focus on the ladder regions where MH do the most damage (since I find that mechanical differences account dor less in higher leagues, therefore the MH advantage is relatively bigger). TL;DR real name policy for tournament participants | ||
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( bush
321 Posts
On August 01 2013 01:00 TBO wrote: You can deselect a selected unit with shift clicking on it, to end up with no unit selected (I know it's unlikely he did that, but still it's possible). I always dislike when valid suspicion get mixed with false statements, it just weakens the argument. providing the replay, if you can find it, would be nice. Looking at the actions in sc2gears could reveal if he shift-deselected or used a badly programmed hack. Thats true. I caught a hacker once in a similar situation using sc2 gears, dumbass right-clicked a bunker which was in the fog and he didnt have vision. | ||
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muppetPRIME
Sweden21 Posts
http://blog.counter-strike.net/index.php/overwatch/ Too bad we wont probably never see that kinda thing in SC2 TT | ||
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InSpiReZerG
United States159 Posts
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Voyage
Germany71 Posts
On August 01 2013 03:21 InSpiReZerG wrote: Iccup implemented lagless cross realm play as well as an anti-hack system that ran seamlessly by hackers who were never part of the development team AND THIS WAS 8+ YEARS AGO. Blizzard makes mistake after mistake as well as ignores the community and they wonder why games like LoL are taking over. LISTEN TO YOUR COMMUNITY!!!!! Well.. what is the community (you in this case) advising Blizzard to do practically to solve the problem? Would you rather have a tribunal system like LoL? Everytime you blind counter (by pure luck) you get reported and some bronzelord (I respect bronze players) thinks it is not OK to wall your main w/o scouting a 6pool? Especially in lower leagues you just got to cope with hackers IMHO. Yea, you might lose some games, but it is not like mechanics would grant you the instawin if your opponent did not use hax. In high leagues that is different though. I remember when SeleCT was going for #1M earlier this summer (before GM was open) and he just met hackers again and again. | ||
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InSpiReZerG
United States159 Posts
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InSpiReZerG
United States159 Posts
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RayBeans
Germany331 Posts
On July 31 2013 22:26 kaup wrote: OK. so if you know alot of imbatoss you could answer me why did he played the munich barcraft qualifier http://starcraft2.ingame.de/cup/tournament.php?gid=32&tid=1394&mode=grid&round=3 seen from liquidpedia : http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/The_BCON_Clash and imbatoss account on the website : http://starcraft2.ingame.de/cup/player.php?pid=602923 So the tournament rules are in german: (found here : http://starcraft2.ingame.de/cup/tournament.php?gid=32&tid=1394&mode=info ) Teilnahmebedingungen In der Region München lebend Keine Grandmaster (sonst alle Ligen) -> no grandmaster Keine gesponserten Pro-Gamer -> no sponsored progamer and you(imbatoss/enigma) said he was already very often grandmaster? sounds interesting! and why a barcode account ? to get masters and able to win the tournament sounds cool ! admin of the bcon clash here: we had a little hole in the rules: they actually stated "no grandmaster EU during the time of the qualifier" and he wasn't gm eu at the time of his local qualifier, the munich one (which took place 2nd of June). It was brought to our attention after he qualified that he was GM in NA during the time of the qualifier, but we had that little hole in our rules as stated above, so we finally decided to allow him to play. We know this caused a lot of trouble among the other players and spoiled the fun a bit, and i am personally very sorry for it. Even more sorry after these accusations against imbatoss came up. But there is nothing we can do it about it afterwards. I can only quote myself once again, please take a look at the replays and give a detailed report on it if you find something, be it for or against him. On July 30 2013 20:38 RayBeans wrote: Hi there, (main) organizer of the BCON Clash (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/The_BCON_Clash) here, which Imbatoss won and took 200€ prizemoney. Can some of you please check the replays and tell me/us if there is any evidence. Thanks in advance Link to the whole cup replaypack: http://binarybeast.com/rep/82894/xHotS1307041.zip link to the replays of the finals: http://binarybeast.com/rep/82894/xHotS130704/winners_bracket/round_3/ExZotiK%20(Zurich)%20vs%20ImBaTosS%20(Munich).zip link to the grid: http://binarybeast.com/xHotS1307041 | ||
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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
http://drop.sc/352205 the second the other guys builds the dark srhine imbatoss build a robo. no scout again, checks one (not the right one) base with the msc again, but come on, this is so obvious he has the ressources to tech at any point in time. 5:22 dark shrine goes down, 5:25 robo...6:45 first thing out of the robo: observer, chronoboosted and rallied to his own base | ||
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TBO
Germany1350 Posts
On August 01 2013 05:41 graNite wrote: ok look at this replay: http://drop.sc/352205 the second the other guys builds the dark srhine imbatoss build a robo. no scout again, checks one (not the right one) base with the msc again, but come on, this is so obvious he has the ressources to tech at any point in time. 5:22 dark shrine goes down, 5:25 robo...6:45 first thing out of the robo: observer, chronoboosted and rallied to his own base A single replay can be luck - if he gets lucky in every relevant (tournament) match then it becomes suspicious. I am always a bit wary when it comes to hack accusations, as the consequences for a false positive are really bad. So what should be done is try to get replays from as many tournament replays of him as possible as look through them and see if he is lucky (almost) everytime. | ||
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