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well, according to Edison's blog, they did inform IEM about the meeting beforehand, and get to the arrange Jim's match to start early at 9am. (Turn out they might have met another bad admin or officer, as the match actually start at 10am)
So Jim finish his matches at 12. Probably before they leave, they grab a blizzard guy to talk with 'someone who is responsible for the match stuff'. also from Edison, 'we promised that we may return as late as 4:30pm, and will try our best, if thing doesn't go well, arrange the match tomorrow'.
when they got the mobile after the meeting, it's 4:50pm, and that's when they know Jim dq.
guess they have to wait 2 hours, the meeting with ambassador is at 3pm. It takes 1h at least from the venue to ambassador
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On July 25 2013 21:01 hoemuffin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 20:56 Sbrubbles wrote:On July 25 2013 20:49 revel8 wrote:
It can be very difficult and time-consuming for Chinese citizens to get permission by their Government to travel abroad. As well as various written invitations from abroad which seem mandatory, the process can just take months. It helps if you have connections with the Communist Party but even with this the granting of Visa's can take a somewhat arbitrary amount of time. The bureaucratic process could do with being streamlined but I suspect it is deliberately onerous.
I am not Chinese but my Dad married a Chinese woman and spends half the year in Beijing. He has told me many stories from his wife's relatives about the hassle it can be for Chinese citizens to obtain Passports and Visas to travel abroad (to the UK).
I don't know specifics, but generally the granting of Visas has absolutely nothing to do with your own government. If the issue was the Visa and not the Passport, the domestic government is probably not the culprit. Edit: ninjaed Since around 2011, you cannot travel abroad unless you have the visa already prearranged, even if they allow visas on arrival. So no US visa, and immigration won't let him get on the plane.
Chinese never could in the first place, so doesn't really apply :p
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I thought US was giving athletes visas to Esports players now, or was that only for LoL players because if thats how it is then i am so sad because sc2 players also deserve the same treatment. Look at how much we could avoid. I really thought Jim could go very far in WCS AM
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On July 25 2013 21:02 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 21:01 hoemuffin wrote:On July 25 2013 20:56 Sbrubbles wrote:On July 25 2013 20:49 revel8 wrote:
It can be very difficult and time-consuming for Chinese citizens to get permission by their Government to travel abroad. As well as various written invitations from abroad which seem mandatory, the process can just take months. It helps if you have connections with the Communist Party but even with this the granting of Visa's can take a somewhat arbitrary amount of time. The bureaucratic process could do with being streamlined but I suspect it is deliberately onerous.
I am not Chinese but my Dad married a Chinese woman and spends half the year in Beijing. He has told me many stories from his wife's relatives about the hassle it can be for Chinese citizens to obtain Passports and Visas to travel abroad (to the UK).
I don't know specifics, but generally the granting of Visas has absolutely nothing to do with your own government. If the issue was the Visa and not the Passport, the domestic government is probably not the culprit. Edit: ninjaed Since around 2011, you cannot travel abroad unless you have the visa already prearranged, even if they allow visas on arrival. So no US visa, and immigration won't let him get on the plane. Chinese never could in the first place, so doesn't really apply :p
Indeed. There is no visa-free travel for Chinese citizens going to the US. Its not like if you're, say, Australian, Canadian or from the EU and you can get a B1/B2 visas upon arrival with near-certainty.
On July 25 2013 21:05 zeratul_jf wrote:
I thought US was giving athletes visas to Esports players now, or was that only for LoL players because if thats how it is then i am so sad because sc2 players also deserve the same treatment. Look at how much we could avoid. I really thought Jim could go very far in WCS AM
What Jim is looking for is a B1 visa (business traveller). If he came from a first world country it would be trivial to get, he only has issues because its generally difficult for a Chinese citizen to get a visa to the US.
The visa Riot fought for is only useful if you want to spend a long period of time in the US (it allows you to reside in the US for up to five years, IIRC). Just for a single tournament you don't need to have a long term visa.
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So basically it answers my question. SC2 players aren't entitled to P1 visa. So basically they are screwed.
Blizzard do your thing right.
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On July 25 2013 21:06 Frankon wrote:So basically it answers my question. SC2 players aren't entitled to P1 visa. So basically they are screwed. Blizzard do your thing right.
He needs a B1 visa, not a P1 visa. P1 would be if he wanted to train in the US and reside in the US. B1 is what he needs to compete in a tournament.
Its bad that SCII players can't get a P1 visa but it isn't relevant to this case.
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Start WCS China for next year and move the WCS finals to China and the problem is fixed.
People have no problem getting to China for playing matches, it's just that chinese have a problem getting out. This isn't the first time players getting denied their visas and have to have replacements or just forefeiting.
Although I guess the chinese players are kind of screwed this year despite what.
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On July 25 2013 21:06 Frankon wrote:So basically it answers my question. SC2 players aren't entitled to P1 visa. So basically they are screwed. Blizzard do your thing right.
Wow I agree, i thought this entitled all esports players. I guess Blizzard needs to go and step up like Riot. I mean look how Visas are screwing over this tourney. And they only need the US because thats the one were people are dropping out of because of Visas. Europe everyone fine and then korea is just full of koreans so its fine but AM has a lot of everything.
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On July 25 2013 20:27 figq wrote:Chinese players + WCS = sad story... Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 20:22 Frankon wrote:
Some questions:
1)is E-sport recognised in US as a type of sport?
2)Is it that hard to get P1 Visa to the US?
Just recently some LoL players got official long-term working visas, afaik for something like 3 years. And yes, the visas are officially for playing their game professionally. So esports beginning to be recognized as a US-regulated profession. I guess for Chinese citizens visas are much much more difficult to arrange than for other citizens, unfortunately.
Different situation, LoL is recognized as a sport, SC2 isn't. As such LoL players wanting to travel to the US can get professional athlete visas, SC2 players can't.
Riot is pushing to legitimize esports on several fronts. Blizzard is just trying to imitate LCS. The organisations and people we have involved in WCS are surely doing their best, but clearly they've been coming up short ever since the new structure was thought up. WCS needs much more support from different backgrounds to be even half as successful as LCS (and honestly half is reaching already).
Ironically China was one of the first countries to accept gamers as athletes.
Obviously I do have a dog in this fight. We regret that Jim had to forfeit his match. Every team that plays on an international level has been struck by visa issues one time or another. Daisy vs Jim would've been a very exciting match and Daisy had good chances to progress regardless already beating MC once today. We have to keep promoting esports, legitimizing esports and building a solid foundation for esports. Hopefully as it becomes more mainstream accepted, these issues will occur less and less.
I hope this doesn't sour the tournament for the viewers, there's still a large number of excellent players in the tournament. It'll only get more actionpacked from here.
ps. I totally support the theories that this is just a conspiracy to keep the Chinese from crushing the US players in WCS America.. Even though most of the other players are Korean... I BUILD FOR CHINA! 
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On July 25 2013 21:06 Fischbacher wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 21:02 ragz_gt wrote:On July 25 2013 21:01 hoemuffin wrote:On July 25 2013 20:56 Sbrubbles wrote:On July 25 2013 20:49 revel8 wrote:
It can be very difficult and time-consuming for Chinese citizens to get permission by their Government to travel abroad. As well as various written invitations from abroad which seem mandatory, the process can just take months. It helps if you have connections with the Communist Party but even with this the granting of Visa's can take a somewhat arbitrary amount of time. The bureaucratic process could do with being streamlined but I suspect it is deliberately onerous.
I am not Chinese but my Dad married a Chinese woman and spends half the year in Beijing. He has told me many stories from his wife's relatives about the hassle it can be for Chinese citizens to obtain Passports and Visas to travel abroad (to the UK).
I don't know specifics, but generally the granting of Visas has absolutely nothing to do with your own government. If the issue was the Visa and not the Passport, the domestic government is probably not the culprit. Edit: ninjaed Since around 2011, you cannot travel abroad unless you have the visa already prearranged, even if they allow visas on arrival. So no US visa, and immigration won't let him get on the plane. Chinese never could in the first place, so doesn't really apply :p Indeed. There is no visa-free travel for Chinese citizens going to the US. Its not like if you're, say, Australian, Canadian or from the EU and you can get a B1/B2 visas upon arrival with near-certainty.
Being EU doesnt mean you dont have to get the Visa BEFORE boarding the plane..
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Meh 
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On July 25 2013 21:06 Frankon wrote:So basically it answers my question. SC2 players aren't entitled to P1 visa. So basically they are screwed. Blizzard do your thing right.
There are a bunch of good reasons you don't want to go that route (see Ultradavid's stuff). And its still not trivial to get a P1 visa - WCS is a ton more volatile then LCS, so I imagine (I am neither a lawyer nor an immigration specialist) it would be much harder to get things done.
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Poland3753 Posts
On July 25 2013 19:24 Ketch wrote:
What causes these Visa problems anyway... that's the worst part of it imho. Is it US government regulations? Then we should move WCS Americas to Mexico or something! :p
I can't point any country that can compare to US in terms of how hard it is to get Visa to get into the country? Every now and then there is a problem with someone obtaining a Visa for US tournament - I recall there was a problem with one of the Ukrainians (Kas, Strelok, DIMAGA?), viOLet, now Jim and that's probably not everything. Maybe US is not good for global esports.
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On July 25 2013 21:01 hoemuffin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 20:56 Sbrubbles wrote:On July 25 2013 20:49 revel8 wrote:
It can be very difficult and time-consuming for Chinese citizens to get permission by their Government to travel abroad. As well as various written invitations from abroad which seem mandatory, the process can just take months. It helps if you have connections with the Communist Party but even with this the granting of Visa's can take a somewhat arbitrary amount of time. The bureaucratic process could do with being streamlined but I suspect it is deliberately onerous.
I am not Chinese but my Dad married a Chinese woman and spends half the year in Beijing. He has told me many stories from his wife's relatives about the hassle it can be for Chinese citizens to obtain Passports and Visas to travel abroad (to the UK).
I don't know specifics, but generally the granting of Visas has absolutely nothing to do with your own government. If the issue was the Visa and not the Passport, the domestic government is probably not the culprit. Edit: ninjaed Since around 2011, you cannot travel abroad unless you have the visa already prearranged, even if they allow visas on arrival. So no US visa, and immigration won't let him get on the plane.
Hmm, sounds like the same system between US and BR then (you have to have a visa before you board the plane). Still, can't blame the chinese government for US visa issues (at least not in an individual basis).
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On July 25 2013 21:12 nimdil wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 19:24 Ketch wrote:
What causes these Visa problems anyway... that's the worst part of it imho. Is it US government regulations? Then we should move WCS Americas to Mexico or something! :p I can't point any country that can compare to US in terms of how hard it is to get Visa to get into the country? Every now and then there is a problem with someone obtaining a Visa for US tournament - I recall there was a problem with one of the Ukrainians (Kas, Strelok, DIMAGA?), viOLet, now Jim and that's probably not everything. Maybe US is not good for global esports.
I think Indian visa is just as bad if not worse.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
That really, really sucks.
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I knew this would have been a problem from the start.
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO COME ON
I so fucking wanted to see Jim play
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On July 25 2013 21:12 nimdil wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 19:24 Ketch wrote:
What causes these Visa problems anyway... that's the worst part of it imho. Is it US government regulations? Then we should move WCS Americas to Mexico or something! :p I can't point any country that can compare to US in terms of how hard it is to get Visa to get into the country? Every now and then there is a problem with someone obtaining a Visa for US tournament - I recall there was a problem with one of the Ukrainians (Kas, Strelok, DIMAGA?), viOLet, now Jim and that's probably not everything. Maybe US is not good for global esports.
Try getting into Saudi as an atheist. Putting that crap down on my application form is the stupidest damn thing I've ever done.
Edit: Also, generally it seems like the Indian, Pakistani and Iraqi passports are hugely problematic, at least based on some conversations I've had with some folks with those passports.
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On July 25 2013 20:56 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2013 20:49 revel8 wrote:
It can be very difficult and time-consuming for Chinese citizens to get permission by their Government to travel abroad. As well as various written invitations from abroad which seem mandatory, the process can just take months. It helps if you have connections with the Communist Party but even with this the granting of Visa's can take a somewhat arbitrary amount of time. The bureaucratic process could do with being streamlined but I suspect it is deliberately onerous.
I am not Chinese but my Dad married a Chinese woman and spends half the year in Beijing. He has told me many stories from his wife's relatives about the hassle it can be for Chinese citizens to obtain Passports and Visas to travel abroad (to the UK).
I don't know specifics, but generally the granting of Visas has absolutely nothing to do with your own government. If the issue was the Visa and not the Passport, the domestic government is probably not the culprit. Edit: ninjaed
You are correct, but citizens from different countries are treated differently from each other when applying for Visas. Chinese citizens I know have had great problems obtaining a Visa for Schengen countries (Some EU countries), and elsewhere. Personally, I have travelled to about 20 different countries around the World and as a UK Citizen had no problem getting a Visa at all. It is all to do with the relationship/travel arrangements that countries have with each other.
The US has noticeably tightened up it's immigration controls since 2001. I travelled to New York in Summer 2002 and was shocked at how different the treatment I received going through US Passport Control compared to a few years before. Previously it had been typical friendliness similar to US customer service standards, afterwards it was all thumb prints and pointed questions and suspicious glares and pseudo-interrogation about my choice of flight! They even made me take off my trainers so they could check them out! Understandable, I guess.
Anyway, sucks for Jim.
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EPT
