Jin Hui Cao, known by his ID Jim, has been disqualified from IEM Shanghai without dropping a single match in the open bracket. Having to work out Visa issues for his participation in the upcoming Ro16 of WCS America live from Santa Monica, California, Jim had to leave before the winners' bracket final that would have seen him into the group stages against Daisy.
IEM tried to accommodate Jim, playing the second open bracket and finishing the qualification for that before returning back to the first bracket. With the second open bracket finished, IEM gave Jim a time where he had to show up by or be disqualified, and the Chinese player could not meet the final deadline set by the officials. He was then officially disqualified from the tournament, leaving Daisy the winner of the top side of the bracket and MC -- who had lost to Daisy -- the winner of the losers' bracket.
Now the reason why Jim wasn't able to make his games is because of him trying to get his Visa situation resolved so he could travel to America to compete in the Ro16 of WCS America. Jim, who advanced to the Ro16 without a loss against Nestea and Major, was the top seed of Group A and one of the favorites to make a deep run in the tournament.
Also, it is being reported that Jim and Macsed -- another Chinese player who made it to the Ro16 of WCS America - have failed to get their US Visas in time for the Ro16 and might have to forfeit their spots. This would be the third time in two seasons where a player had to forfeit in the Ro16 of WCS America, Violet having to drop out last season.
In response to Jim's disqualification from the tournament, Jim's coach spoke out about the issues:
Regarding today's events.
We've started applying for Visa a month ago, because a lot of people are applying for Visa in the Shanghai area, we were only given two time slots. One is 7am on 24th, another is 3pm today. Because yesterday morning MacSed needed to play his WCS group matches, our only choice left is today's appointment. After we confirmed the time, we've been in constant arrangement with IEM and Chinajoy. Right after we've gotten the schedule from the IEM official Mickeal, we've been negociating with him about Jim's matches, and he agreed to move Jim's matches to start at 9am this morning, asking us to come early at 8am and we can start as soon as both players arrive. This way we would be able to make our visa appointment. Also regarding Blizzard showmatch, we've arraged for Top to play first day's matches. and TT-Esports final, we've also notified to officials. As for today, we arrived early at 8am as promised, but the game was delayed and didn't start until 10am, even this was after my consistant request to the officials. Finally when Jim reached the qualifier finals it's already 12pm. The ambassy takes at least an hour from the venue, with traffic even longer, and that it's difficult to get a taxi outside of the Chinajoy venue. To ensure we make it to the Visa appointment, we have no choice but talk with Blizzard official Jacky and together negociate with IEM official, we promised we'd finish around 4:30pm at the earliest, and if we really can't make it, the possibility of pushing the game back to tomorrow. By the time we finish at the ambassy at 4:50pm, we saw on the our cellphone that Jim has already been disqualified. And most unfortunately, because Blizzard's invitation letter problem, the Visa was denied.
Now there's only two things I can do:
1 .Regarding the Visa we already called Blizzard offcial, asking Blizzard to call US ambassy and explain our Visa situation, and possibly push back our scheduled match on Aug 6th by a day or two, to ensure we have enough time to get the Visa again.
2. I just got off the phone with IEM, because it's hard to hear in the phone, IEM has requested us to show up tomorrow morning at 8am to continue discuss this issue. On this, I pointed out thier problems very clearly, they said they disqualified Jim because they have to follow the scedule. But the truth is, we got delayed two hours this morning, if it weren't for the delay, we have plenty of time to finish the matches before heading to the Embassy. And what's more, Grubby and OZ was allowed to reschedule thier matches to tomorrow because of their own schedule conflicts.
Finally, if you support Jim and like seeing him play, please do cheer for him, he's had the worse luck today.
Update: It appears that Jim has been officially DQ'ed from IEM Shanghai, but will be given a seed into the next IEM tournament qualifer, IEM New York, if he can get his US Visa issues resolved.
Update 2: MacSed will compete in the Ro16 of WCS America, having acquired his US Visa. Jim is still trying and more news to come.
I feel so bad for Jim, the chinese players get so few tournaments and he basically gets DQ'd out of two in the space of a few hours. Unless something changed I doubt he would be able to get a visa for season 3 if he made it again.
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
agreed
The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament?
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
agreed
The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament?
no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that
it sucks but maybe people should have their documents ready before playing a tournament that u have to travel to X place at X time?
in other note what happens to macseds and jim spots, does blizzard just give 2 forfeits or me and puck advance by being 3rd places in respective groups
Random seventeen-year-old Chinese kid comes out of nowhere to show world class SC2 play and possibly be the first SC2 Chinese superstar that can challenge Koreans.
Somehow everything possibly that could go wrong for him goes wrong, pretty much halting the entire hype without him actually losing a match.
Been like that for the Chineses for years (since 2006 maybe). You can only hope that organizers wont get rid of them altogether so that their tournaments wont be screwed up
That's pretty fucked up. He was showing some great play, too. Woulda been a nice story line, Chinese kid comes out of nowhere and smacks everyone around.
On July 25 2013 19:13 Fionn wrote: Random seventeen-year-old Chinese kid comes out of nowhere to show world class SC2 play and possibly be the first SC2 Chinese superstar that can challenge Koreans.
Somehow everything possibly that could go wrong for him goes wrong, pretty much halting the entire hype without him actually losing a match.
Especially with HOTS just coming out in China this could have been such a great time for China to get way more involved in sc2 :/
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
Is there anyone who can suggest this to the IEM admins? It's pretty reasonable he should get that chance to at least play the lower bracket...but he should be able to play both since three group games can be played before he has to play his group anyway...
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
Is there anyone who can suggest this to the IEM admins? It's pretty reasonable he should get that chance to at least play the lower bracket...but he should be able to play both since three group games can be played before he has to play his group anyway...
Also since IEM and WCS is in the same system. and he went for make sure to continue his wcs matches.
On July 25 2013 19:13 Fionn wrote: Random seventeen-year-old Chinese kid comes out of nowhere to show world class SC2 play and possibly be the first SC2 Chinese superstar that can challenge Koreans.
Somehow everything possibly that could go wrong for him goes wrong, pretty much halting the entire hype without him actually losing a match.
What causes these Visa problems anyway... that's the worst part of it imho. Is it US government regulations? Then we should move WCS Americas to Mexico or something! :p
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
agreed
The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament?
no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that
As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match.
On July 25 2013 19:24 Ketch wrote: What causes these Visa problems anyway... that's the worst part of it imho. Is it US government regulations? Then we should move WCS Americas to Mexico or something! :p
It is not just the US government. Getting a VISA for the EU is difficult for many countries too.
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
Is there anyone who can suggest this to the IEM admins? It's pretty reasonable he should get that chance to at least play the lower bracket...but he should be able to play both since three group games can be played before he has to play his group anyway...
They already made the decision, they can't change it now as it would be totally unfair to the qualifying players.
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
Is there anyone who can suggest this to the IEM admins? It's pretty reasonable he should get that chance to at least play the lower bracket...but he should be able to play both since three group games can be played before he has to play his group anyway...
They already made the decision, they can't change it now as it would be totally unfair to the qualifying players.
Unless someone popular stamps their feet takes it to twitter and threatens a boycott.
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
agreed
The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament?
no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that
As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match.
just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
Is there anyone who can suggest this to the IEM admins? It's pretty reasonable he should get that chance to at least play the lower bracket...but he should be able to play both since three group games can be played before he has to play his group anyway...
They already made the decision, they can't change it now as it would be totally unfair to the qualifying players.
Unless someone popular stamps their feet takes it to twitter and threatens a boycott.
Yes, we need more public uproar idiocy on Twitter, that is for sure :/
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
agreed
The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament?
no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that
As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match.
just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played
That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament?
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
agreed
The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament?
no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that
As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match.
just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played
That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament?
Visas are by appointments. If the government only has that time/day, there's not much more you can do.
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
agreed
The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament?
no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that
As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match.
just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played
That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament?
because of extraordinary circumstances
rules don't exist for the sake of having rules, they exist to better the tournament
TBH as soon as Chinese players signed up for WCS AM this possibility popped into my head. Just a bad track record of Chinese players missing events in CS 1.6 that made me think that way. Hopefully they get them though because it would suck if they didn't.
On July 25 2013 19:12 MajOr wrote: it sucks but maybe people should have their documents ready before playing a tournament that u have to travel to X place at X time?
in other note what happens to macseds and jim spots, does blizzard just give 2 forfeits or me and puck advance by being 3rd places in respective groups
i hope 2nd one :D
And you can get a visa with a reason that you might be coming to play some computer game if you first clear preliminary stage for the tournament. Yeah, I also think that it's that easy to get a visa, especially if you are a Chinese.
And no, you aren't getting the 2nd place if Blizzard has any part of their brains still working. It's the same situation as with Violet last season. Seriously this post is just stupid and a kind of disgusting.
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
agreed
The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament?
no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that
As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match.
just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played
That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament?
because of extraordinary circumstances
rules don't exist for the sake of having rules, they exist to better the tournament
extraordinary circumstances he himself (or his team) is/are responsible for. Why wasnt this Visa issue sorted out before taking part in this tournament?
america and their visas ... lol players now get sportvisas ... plz for sc2 too
On July 25 2013 19:37 yawnoC wrote: TBH as soon as Chinese players signed up for WCS AM this possibility popped into my head. Just a bad track record of Chinese players missing events in CS 1.6 that made me think that way. Hopefully they get them though because it would suck if they didn't.
but its not the fail of the chinese that no one wants them in their country. .. for chinese to get visa to usa is ... well lets say "hard"
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
agreed
The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament?
no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that
As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match.
just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played
That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament?
because of extraordinary circumstances
rules don't exist for the sake of having rules, they exist to better the tournament
extraordinary circumstances he himself (or his team) is/are responsible for. Why wasnt this Visa issue sorted out before taking part in this tournament?
because meetings are at the pleasure of the embassy, not yours
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
agreed
The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament?
no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that
As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match.
just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played
That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament?
because of extraordinary circumstances
rules don't exist for the sake of having rules, they exist to better the tournament
extraordinary circumstances he himself (or his team) is/are responsible for. Why wasnt this Visa issue sorted out before taking part in this tournament?
because meetings are at the pleasure of the embassy, not yours
It, indeed, never is a pleasure to have a meeting with an embassy
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
agreed
The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament?
no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that
As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match.
just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played
That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament?
because of extraordinary circumstances
rules don't exist for the sake of having rules, they exist to better the tournament
extraordinary circumstances he himself (or his team) is/are responsible for. Why wasnt this Visa issue sorted out before taking part in this tournament?
because meetings are at the pleasure of the embassy, not yours
This is exactly right, was told by iG.Edison(MacSed/Jim's team coach) that they waited outside the embassy standing for 2 hours in 40 degrees heat and another hour inside the embassy, just to get their visas denied after visa officer looked at their WCS invitation briefly.
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
But it's quite a different situation with these two matches. Oz and Grubby were at the venue and it isn't their fault if it is decided to close the location or whatever.
Although it is very disappointing and sad for eSport, Jim wanted to handle personal issues not related to the IEM tournament. There has to be some deadline. The IEM administrators cooperated by playing the second Open Bracket first - despite that Jim didn't manage to show up in time.
In fact the Chinese embassy is to blame - it's not the first case with visa issues for chinese players.
On July 25 2013 19:09 dignitasDreAm wrote: [quote] agreed
The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament?
no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that
As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match.
just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played
That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament?
because of extraordinary circumstances
rules don't exist for the sake of having rules, they exist to better the tournament
extraordinary circumstances he himself (or his team) is/are responsible for. Why wasnt this Visa issue sorted out before taking part in this tournament?
because meetings are at the pleasure of the embassy, not yours
This is exactly right, was told by iG.Edison(MacSed/Jim's team coach) that they waited outside the embassy standing for 2 hours in 40 degrees heat and another hour inside the embassy, just to get their visas denied after visa officer looked at their WCS invitation briefly.
On July 25 2013 19:09 dignitasDreAm wrote: [quote] agreed
The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament?
no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that
As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match.
just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played
That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament?
because of extraordinary circumstances
rules don't exist for the sake of having rules, they exist to better the tournament
extraordinary circumstances he himself (or his team) is/are responsible for. Why wasnt this Visa issue sorted out before taking part in this tournament?
because meetings are at the pleasure of the embassy, not yours
This is exactly right, was told by iG.Edison(MacSed/Jim's team coach) that they waited outside the embassy standing for 2 hours in 40 degrees heat and another hour inside the embassy, just to get their visas denied after visa officer looked at their WCS invitation briefly.
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
But it's quite a different situation with these two matches. Oz and Grubby were at the venue and it isn't their fault if it is decided to close the location or whatever.
Although it is very disappointing and sad for eSport, Jim wanted to handle personal issues not related to the IEM tournament. There has to be some deadline. The IEM administrators cooperated by playing the second Open Bracket first - despite that Jim didn't manage to show up in time.
In fact the Chinese embassy is to blame - it's not the first case with visa issues for chinese players.
You know Chinese embassy has nothing to do with Chinese traveling abroad, it's US embassy that need approve them, right?
On July 25 2013 19:09 dignitasDreAm wrote: [quote] agreed
The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament?
no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that
As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match.
just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played
That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament?
because of extraordinary circumstances
rules don't exist for the sake of having rules, they exist to better the tournament
extraordinary circumstances he himself (or his team) is/are responsible for. Why wasnt this Visa issue sorted out before taking part in this tournament?
because meetings are at the pleasure of the embassy, not yours
This is exactly right, was told by iG.Edison(MacSed/Jim's team coach) that they waited outside the embassy standing for 2 hours in 40 degrees heat and another hour inside the embassy, just to get their visas denied after visa officer looked at their WCS invitation briefly.
Wow that totally sucks. I'm surprised they would deny them, though it might have something to do with the short notice and the less than stellar US-Chinese relations on the subject of computer hacking/spying. Hopefully there is something that Blizzard's US office can do about it. But they might be just as helpless as the players.
I lost my first job due to couldn't get a working visa to India after 4 month of bickering, for no reason at all... Visa officers outside EU are often powertripping arseholes.
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
agreed
The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament?
no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that
As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match.
just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played
That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament?
because of extraordinary circumstances
rules don't exist for the sake of having rules, they exist to better the tournament
i think there is a certain limit to exeptions a tournament can make. in this case its a REALLY shitty situation because jim now lost 2 premiere tourneys at the same time. but if you look at the tweets from iem guys, they seem to have a tough job dealing with chinese conditions anyways. like no ac for the last 2 hours, having to start later, having the place shut down before they where done with the day. and despite all that they gave jim 5 hours (!!!!). of course it would have been possible to give him a match against daisy on the next day. but i understand their decision to draw a line somewhere, to get things in order again.
I'd agree with the statement "Visa's are killing E-Sports" however, i think surely it is the players/teams fault for leaving it so late? I mean as soon as you know/played your match and your in the RO16 for WCS NA, why didn't you go get a VISA application the next day for 'murica?!
On July 25 2013 19:11 grs wrote: [quote] The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament?
no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that
As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match.
just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played
That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament?
because of extraordinary circumstances
rules don't exist for the sake of having rules, they exist to better the tournament
extraordinary circumstances he himself (or his team) is/are responsible for. Why wasnt this Visa issue sorted out before taking part in this tournament?
because meetings are at the pleasure of the embassy, not yours
This is exactly right, was told by iG.Edison(MacSed/Jim's team coach) that they waited outside the embassy standing for 2 hours in 40 degrees heat and another hour inside the embassy, just to get their visas denied after visa officer looked at their WCS invitation briefly.
On July 25 2013 20:06 Pandemona wrote: I'd agree with the statement "Visa's are killing E-Sports" however, i think surely it is the players/teams fault for leaving it so late? I mean as soon as you know/played your match and your in the RO16 for WCS NA, why didn't you go get a VISA application the next day for 'murica?!
From what I am reading on the subject, it can take months to get a visa to the US for some in China. They may have put in the application the instant they qualified. Sadly, US-Chinese relations are not the same as they were EU or Korea.
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
But it's quite a different situation with these two matches. Oz and Grubby were at the venue and it isn't their fault if it is decided to close the location or whatever.
Although it is very disappointing and sad for eSport, Jim wanted to handle personal issues not related to the IEM tournament. There has to be some deadline. The IEM administrators cooperated by playing the second Open Bracket first - despite that Jim didn't manage to show up in time.
In fact the Chinese embassy is to blame - it's not the first case with visa issues for chinese players.
You know Chinese embassy has nothing to do with Chinese traveling abroad, it's US embassy that need approve them, right?
As far as I understand Chinese citizens need some approval to travel abroad, don't they? By the statements cited in this thread I assumed it was the Chinese embassy first. Sorry if that's not right ...
On July 25 2013 20:06 Pandemona wrote: I'd agree with the statement "Visa's are killing E-Sports" however, i think surely it is the players/teams fault for leaving it so late? I mean as soon as you know/played your match and your in the RO16 for WCS NA, why didn't you go get a VISA application the next day for 'murica?!
From what I know, you have to make appointments with the embassy, and Jim/MacSed had their appointments booked with "extra urgent"(which costed even more) right after they qualified, and then it's up to the embassy on when they want to meet you.
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
But it's quite a different situation with these two matches. Oz and Grubby were at the venue and it isn't their fault if it is decided to close the location or whatever.
Although it is very disappointing and sad for eSport, Jim wanted to handle personal issues not related to the IEM tournament. There has to be some deadline. The IEM administrators cooperated by playing the second Open Bracket first - despite that Jim didn't manage to show up in time.
In fact the Chinese embassy is to blame - it's not the first case with visa issues for chinese players.
You know Chinese embassy has nothing to do with Chinese traveling abroad, it's US embassy that need approve them, right?
As far as I understand Chinese citizens need some approval to travel abroad, don't they? By the statements cited in this thread I assumed it was the Chinese embassy first. Sorry if that's not right ...
Well, they need a passport, like everyone else, and most Chinese don't have one. But other than that no, they do not need special permission, and it would not be handled by Chinese embassy, as there is no Chinese embassy in China, for obvious reason.
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
But it's quite a different situation with these two matches. Oz and Grubby were at the venue and it isn't their fault if it is decided to close the location or whatever.
Although it is very disappointing and sad for eSport, Jim wanted to handle personal issues not related to the IEM tournament. There has to be some deadline. The IEM administrators cooperated by playing the second Open Bracket first - despite that Jim didn't manage to show up in time.
In fact the Chinese embassy is to blame - it's not the first case with visa issues for chinese players.
You know Chinese embassy has nothing to do with Chinese traveling abroad, it's US embassy that need approve them, right?
As far as I understand Chinese citizens need some approval to travel abroad, don't they? By the statements cited in this thread I assumed it was the Chinese embassy first. Sorry if that's not right ...
On July 25 2013 20:15 Mirrikh wrote: It's not the players/coach fault. They needed the invite letter from Blizzard to arrive before applying for visa. Then the interview gets scheduled.
Not a huge timeframe for any of the parts involved, considering ro32 was played this and last week.
As a side note, why not move WCS US to Korea? That would be the most convenient way for teams/players.
LoL, why even have it at that point, when the US players would need to go to Korea. The whole point is to not have everyone flying over the pacific ocean.
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
But it's quite a different situation with these two matches. Oz and Grubby were at the venue and it isn't their fault if it is decided to close the location or whatever.
Although it is very disappointing and sad for eSport, Jim wanted to handle personal issues not related to the IEM tournament. There has to be some deadline. The IEM administrators cooperated by playing the second Open Bracket first - despite that Jim didn't manage to show up in time.
In fact the Chinese embassy is to blame - it's not the first case with visa issues for chinese players.
You know Chinese embassy has nothing to do with Chinese traveling abroad, it's US embassy that need approve them, right?
As far as I understand Chinese citizens need some approval to travel abroad, don't they? By the statements cited in this thread I assumed it was the Chinese embassy first. Sorry if that's not right ...
Well, they need a passport, like everyone else, and most Chinese don't have one. But other than that no, they do not need special permission, and it would not be handled by Chinese embassy, as there is no Chinese embassy in China, for obvious reason.
Not an embassy, but the embassy's headquarter, like an Department for Foreign Affairs - thought about that first.
But these misunderstandings are settled now - sorry to cause this though.
What's left is the following statement: Political issues between the U.S. and China are messing up eSports, as said earlier in this thread.
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
Daisy and MC both waited for 5 nervwrecking hours. Then they hear Jim got DQed and went home to rest and prepare for tomorrow. Now you want to tell them they have to play Jim tomorrow morning. If they had delayed the matches until tomorrow morning in the first place ok, but going back and forth can not be done and Jim said he would be back at 3pm (they still waited util 4:30pm, so close to the venue closing). Now I feel really sorry for Jim and if he doesn't get his visa at all now he must be the unluckiest person in the world and it would be heartbreaking. But I think you also have to think about MC and Daisy. If they both agree to play Jim, OK. But do you really want to put them into that shitty situation where they have to decide themselves? But under no circumstances can Carmac just let Jim back in without contacting MC and Daisy in my opinion.
I also don't think there is another tournament like IEM that would've waited that long and tried to accommodate a player as much as they did.
On July 25 2013 20:05 ragz_gt wrote: I lost my first job due to couldn't get a working visa to India after 4 month of bickering, for no reason at all... Visa officers outside EU are often powertripping arseholes.
Visa officers in eu are huge assholes also. I spent 9 hours waiting at the german embassy for them to correct my name on the visa. 9 fucking hours. For something that was their fault, and was fixed in 2 minutes.
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
Daisy and MC both waited for 5 nervwrecking hours. Then they hear Jim got DQed and went home to rest and prepare for tomorrow. Now you want to tell them they have to play Jim tomorrow morning. If they had delayed the matches until tomorrow morning in the first place ok, but going back and forth can not be done and Jim said he would be back at 3pm (they still waited util 4:30pm, so close to the venue closing). Now I feel really sorry for Jim and if he doesn't get his visa at all now he must be the unluckiest person in the world and it would be heartbreaking. But I think you also have to think about MC and Daisy. If they both agree to play Jim, OK. But do you really want to put them into that shitty situation where they have to decide themselves? But under no circumstances can Carmac just let Jim back in without contacting MC and Daisy in my opinion.
I also don't think there is another tournament like IEM that would've waited that long and tried to accommodate a player as much as they did.
If they ask mc, and mc says no I will lose all respect for him.
We don't have to think about anyone but the person who suffered at the hands of the extremely douche American visa system.
On July 25 2013 20:22 Frankon wrote: Some questions: 1)is E-sport recognised in US as a type of sport? 2)Is it that hard to get P1 Visa to the US?
Just recently some LoL players got official long-term working visas, afaik for something like 3 years. And yes, the visas are officially for playing their game professionally. So esports beginning to be recognized as a US-regulated profession. I guess for Chinese citizens visas are much much more difficult to arrange than for other citizens, unfortunately.
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
Daisy and MC both waited for 5 nervwrecking hours. Then they hear Jim got DQed and went home to rest and prepare for tomorrow. Now you want to tell them they have to play Jim tomorrow morning. If they had delayed the matches until tomorrow morning in the first place ok, but going back and forth can not be done and Jim said he would be back at 3pm (they still waited util 4:30pm, so close to the venue closing). Now I feel really sorry for Jim and if he doesn't get his visa at all now he must be the unluckiest person in the world and it would be heartbreaking. But I think you also have to think about MC and Daisy. If they both agree to play Jim, OK. But do you really want to put them into that shitty situation where they have to decide themselves? But under no circumstances can Carmac just let Jim back in without contacting MC and Daisy in my opinion.
I also don't think there is another tournament like IEM that would've waited that long and tried to accommodate a player as much as they did.
If they ask mc, and mc says no I will lose all respect for him.
We don't have to think about anyone but the person who suffered at the hands of the extremely douche American visa system.
USCIS the biggest assholes in america.
There is zero connection between those two issues: a) Jim is disqualified from IEM China for being not there to play. b) Jim has VISA issues for WCS NA.
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
Daisy and MC both waited for 5 nervwrecking hours. Then they hear Jim got DQed and went home to rest and prepare for tomorrow. Now you want to tell them they have to play Jim tomorrow morning. If they had delayed the matches until tomorrow morning in the first place ok, but going back and forth can not be done and Jim said he would be back at 3pm (they still waited util 4:30pm, so close to the venue closing). Now I feel really sorry for Jim and if he doesn't get his visa at all now he must be the unluckiest person in the world and it would be heartbreaking. But I think you also have to think about MC and Daisy. If they both agree to play Jim, OK. But do you really want to put them into that shitty situation where they have to decide themselves? But under no circumstances can Carmac just let Jim back in without contacting MC and Daisy in my opinion.
I also don't think there is another tournament like IEM that would've waited that long and tried to accommodate a player as much as they did.
If they ask mc, and mc says no I will lose all respect for him.
We don't have to think about anyone but the person who suffered at the hands of the extremely douche American visa system.
USCIS the biggest assholes in america.
that's why you don't ask mc... You can't ever let a player decide like that if they want a walkover or not because they can't properly say they want it without coming over as some asshole.
Jim or his management just screwed up by trying to get the visa's during a tournament and then not properly estimating how long it would take. If he just said straight away, I won't be back today IEM had a reasonable oppurtunity to delay 1 or 2 matches for him. Now IEM just couldn't and it's just poor management for him to be out like this. Not getting a visa for wcs is just unlucky if it happens, US is rediculously strict sometimes...
On July 25 2013 19:09 dignitasDreAm wrote: [quote] agreed
The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament?
no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that
As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match.
just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played
That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament?
because of extraordinary circumstances
rules don't exist for the sake of having rules, they exist to better the tournament
extraordinary circumstances he himself (or his team) is/are responsible for. Why wasnt this Visa issue sorted out before taking part in this tournament?
because meetings are at the pleasure of the embassy, not yours
This is exactly right, was told by iG.Edison(MacSed/Jim's team coach) that they waited outside the embassy standing for 2 hours in 40 degrees heat and another hour inside the embassy, just to get their visas denied after visa officer looked at their WCS invitation briefly.
If this is true I hate my country even more now. Come on....
On July 25 2013 20:06 Pandemona wrote: I'd agree with the statement "Visa's are killing E-Sports" however, i think surely it is the players/teams fault for leaving it so late? I mean as soon as you know/played your match and your in the RO16 for WCS NA, why didn't you go get a VISA application the next day for 'murica?!
Spoken as someone who has no idea about the process. They need to make an appointment at the embassy, after they get the invitation letter. And its at the pleasure of the staff, its in the big cities and the Americans are always on a power trip. I have seen phd students get stuck for 6 months despite intervention from us college presidents. I have just recently seen a US government employee be unable to travel because uscis is full of cunts.
This is the immigration reform we need not something that legalizes illegals.
On July 25 2013 20:22 Frankon wrote: Some questions: 1)is E-sport recognised in US as a type of sport? 2)Is it that hard to get P1 Visa to the US?
Just recently some LoL players got official long-term working visas, afaik for something like 3 years. And yes, the visas are officially for playing their game professionally. So esports beginning to be recognized as a US-regulated profession. I guess for Chinese citizens visas are much much more difficult to arrange than for other citizens, unfortunately.
Well P1 is for 5 years.
Shouldn't be that hard. You get a invitation from Blizzard for WCS on paper, get a paper from yout team that you are professional player, get sth like that from other tournaments organizers (like IEM - with a side note that you got DQ cause you had to visit the embassy at that time ^^)
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
But it's quite a different situation with these two matches. Oz and Grubby were at the venue and it isn't their fault if it is decided to close the location or whatever.
Although it is very disappointing and sad for eSport, Jim wanted to handle personal issues not related to the IEM tournament. There has to be some deadline. The IEM administrators cooperated by playing the second Open Bracket first - despite that Jim didn't manage to show up in time.
In fact the Chinese embassy is to blame - it's not the first case with visa issues for chinese players.
You know Chinese embassy has nothing to do with Chinese traveling abroad, it's US embassy that need approve them, right?
As far as I understand Chinese citizens need some approval to travel abroad, don't they? By the statements cited in this thread I assumed it was the Chinese embassy first. Sorry if that's not right ...
Well, they need a passport, like everyone else, and most Chinese don't have one. But other than that no, they do not need special permission, and it would not be handled by Chinese embassy, as there is no Chinese embassy in China, for obvious reason.
Not an embassy, but the embassy's headquarter, like an Department for Foreign Affairs - thought about that first.
But these misunderstandings are settled now - sorry to cause this though.
What's left is the following statement: Political issues between the U.S. and China are messing up eSports, as said earlier in this thread.
It is a pretty curious as short term visa from China to US, such as travel visa has not been difficult to get for a decade. Maybe just an arsehole officer (wouldn't be first, or 1001th time) trying to make a point.
But in all seriousness, this is disastrous for the Chinese scene, and I do mean disastrous. Two players, one with a serious shot of winning a WCS regional season may not even be able to compete. And that situation leading to same said player being DQ'd from a tournament he had a great chance of doing well in, IN HIS OWN BACK YARD! Keep your politics out of my Starcraft!!!
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
But it's quite a different situation with these two matches. Oz and Grubby were at the venue and it isn't their fault if it is decided to close the location or whatever.
Although it is very disappointing and sad for eSport, Jim wanted to handle personal issues not related to the IEM tournament. There has to be some deadline. The IEM administrators cooperated by playing the second Open Bracket first - despite that Jim didn't manage to show up in time.
In fact the Chinese embassy is to blame - it's not the first case with visa issues for chinese players.
You know Chinese embassy has nothing to do with Chinese traveling abroad, it's US embassy that need approve them, right?
As far as I understand Chinese citizens need some approval to travel abroad, don't they? By the statements cited in this thread I assumed it was the Chinese embassy first. Sorry if that's not right ...
Well, they need a passport, like everyone else, and most Chinese don't have one. But other than that no, they do not need special permission, and it would not be handled by Chinese embassy, as there is no Chinese embassy in China, for obvious reason.
Not an embassy, but the embassy's headquarter, like an Department for Foreign Affairs - thought about that first.
But these misunderstandings are settled now - sorry to cause this though.
What's left is the following statement: Political issues between the U.S. and China are messing up eSports, as said earlier in this thread.
It is a pretty curious as short term visa from China to US, such as travel visa has not been difficult to get for a decade. Maybe just an arsehole officer (wouldn't be first, or 1001th time) trying to make a point.
Visas that let you work are different. Much harder.
Team Liquid is one of the places where the majority thinks that admins should always decide, never ask the opponents on their opinion. This is applied here, in a case clear as a whistle, so I don't see any base for complaints. It sucks, yes, but other calls weren't really an option.
And the situation where Daisy would get a default win but MC not isn't really fair in the system. If you consider Jim the strongest of the three, it would be unfair to give Daisy a free pass and MC having to play the strongest when he should have been playing Daisy. Even if Jim wasn't the strongest of the three in actuality (and as a tournament you should consider all players equal after the seeding) the mere thought of this being a possibility is why you should avoid such rulings.
On July 25 2013 20:06 Pandemona wrote: I'd agree with the statement "Visa's are killing E-Sports" however, i think surely it is the players/teams fault for leaving it so late? I mean as soon as you know/played your match and your in the RO16 for WCS NA, why didn't you go get a VISA application the next day for 'murica?!
Spoken as someone who has no idea about the process. They need to make an appointment at the embassy, after they get the invitation letter. And its at the pleasure of the staff, its in the big cities and the Americans are always on a power trip. I have seen phd students get stuck for 6 months despite intervention from us college presidents. I have just recently seen a US government employee be unable to travel because uscis is full of cunts.
This is the immigration reform we need not something that legalizes illegals.
Not only you need an appoint... You actually need the ticket booked in order to apply for visa (yes, if you get rejected you take a big lose on the ticket as well). Also, they need the official invitation from WCS to arrive, not that it helped them.
So the timing goes like Win your group > buy ticket > get invitation > call embassy and get a random appointment time > stand inline for embassy (up to 6-8 hours in some cases) > hope you get a non-arsehole (coin flip) > profit!
It can be very difficult and time-consuming for Chinese citizens to get permission by their Government to travel abroad. As well as various written invitations from abroad which seem mandatory, the process can just take months. It helps if you have connections with the Communist Party but even with this the granting of Visa's can take a somewhat arbitrary amount of time. The bureaucratic process could do with being streamlined but I suspect it is deliberately onerous.
I am not Chinese but my Dad married a Chinese woman and spends half the year in Beijing. He has told me many stories from his wife's relatives about the hassle it can be for Chinese citizens to obtain Passports and Visas to travel abroad (to the UK).
On July 25 2013 20:45 pesshaulol wrote: China and Russia always have probems with this, wonder why....
Because the USA has a grudge, and being beaten by china in esports on your own soil would make you look even worse XD
Holy shit, it didn't even occur to me that the officer at the embassy probably was a SC2 fan, recognized Jim and didn't want him to crush his favourite pro in WCS AM.
On July 25 2013 20:49 revel8 wrote: It can be very difficult and time-consuming for Chinese citizens to get permission by their Government to travel abroad. As well as various written invitations from abroad which seem mandatory, the process can just take months. It helps if you have connections with the Communist Party but even with this the granting of Visa's can take a somewhat arbitrary amount of time. The bureaucratic process could do with being streamlined but I suspect it is deliberately onerous.
I am not Chinese but my Dad married a Chinese woman and spends half the year in Beijing. He has told me many stories from his wife's relatives about the hassle it can be for Chinese citizens to obtain Passports and Visas to travel abroad (to the UK).
There is no special permission Chinese need get to travel abroad. They need their passport, and it's somewhat harder to get than western passport, but not by much. And obviously they both have passport already. They do need special permission to travel to HK and Macau though.
Also visa is granted by visiting country; it has NOTHING to do with Chinese government (unless you get a diplomatic visa).
On July 25 2013 20:45 pesshaulol wrote: China and Russia always have probems with this, wonder why....
Because the USA has a grudge, and being beaten by china in esports on your own soil would make you look even worse XD
Holy shit, it didn't even occur to me that the officer at the embassy probably was a SC2 fan, recognized Jim and didn't want him to crush his favourite pro in WCS AM.
On July 25 2013 20:45 pesshaulol wrote: China and Russia always have probems with this, wonder why....
Because the USA has a grudge, and being beaten by china in esports on your own soil would make you look even worse XD
Holy shit, it didn't even occur to me that the officer at the embassy probably was a SC2 fan, recognized Jim and didn't want him to crush his favourite pro in WCS AM.
Nah he was probably a secret Dota fan who didn't want a Chinese guy possibly stealing views from the International.
On July 25 2013 20:45 pesshaulol wrote: China and Russia always have probems with this, wonder why....
Because the USA has a grudge, and being beaten by china in esports on your own soil would make you look even worse XD
Holy shit, it didn't even occur to me that the officer at the embassy probably was a SC2 fan, recognized Jim and didn't want him to crush his favourite pro in WCS AM.
Someone obviously isn't a fan of humour.
You didn't get my sarcasm, I am a fan of humour and thought you post was funny and I wanted to jump on and be funny too, but why do you hate me so much? Makes me sad .
On July 25 2013 20:49 revel8 wrote: It can be very difficult and time-consuming for Chinese citizens to get permission by their Government to travel abroad. As well as various written invitations from abroad which seem mandatory, the process can just take months. It helps if you have connections with the Communist Party but even with this the granting of Visa's can take a somewhat arbitrary amount of time. The bureaucratic process could do with being streamlined but I suspect it is deliberately onerous.
I am not Chinese but my Dad married a Chinese woman and spends half the year in Beijing. He has told me many stories from his wife's relatives about the hassle it can be for Chinese citizens to obtain Passports and Visas to travel abroad (to the UK).
I don't know specifics, but generally the granting of Visas has absolutely nothing to do with your own government. If the issue was the Visa and not the Passport, the domestic government is probably not the culprit.
After putting so much effort in to helping to internationalize these players, get them more repute, etc. And putting my back in to helping them, I just have to say this:
I'm guessing that WCS ro16 is likely a much harder sell simply because Jim would be in the US a lot longer then a weekend for an MLG. And there are plenty of really good reasons why Riot's approach can be hugely problematic (see Ultradavid's post on the matter).
More importantly, embassies (no direct experience with the US since I'm American, but have had to deal with the Saudi) deal with TONS of people asking for visas, so they give you a time, and you show up or they tell you to go pound sand. If the guy you're dealing with is having a bad day, well, hopefully you know a guy.
If they don't get to go, and tommorows ro32 group is taken by both Koreans the ro16 will consist of 12 Koreans, minigun and scarlett...... Gooooooo americanada
On July 25 2013 20:06 Pandemona wrote: I'd agree with the statement "Visa's are killing E-Sports" however, i think surely it is the players/teams fault for leaving it so late? I mean as soon as you know/played your match and your in the RO16 for WCS NA, why didn't you go get a VISA application the next day for 'murica?!
Spoken as someone who has no idea about the process. They need to make an appointment at the embassy, after they get the invitation letter. And its at the pleasure of the staff, its in the big cities and the Americans are always on a power trip. I have seen phd students get stuck for 6 months despite intervention from us college presidents. I have just recently seen a US government employee be unable to travel because uscis is full of cunts.
This is the immigration reform we need not something that legalizes illegals.
Not only you need an appointment... You actually need the ticket booked in order to apply for visa (yes, if you get rejected you take a big lose on the ticket as well). Also, they need the official invitation from WCS to arrive, not that it helped them.
So the timing goes like Win your group > buy ticket > get invitation > call embassy and get a random appointment time > stand inline for embassy (up to 6-8 hours in some cases) > hope you get a non-arsehole (coin flip) > profit!
On July 25 2013 20:49 revel8 wrote: It can be very difficult and time-consuming for Chinese citizens to get permission by their Government to travel abroad. As well as various written invitations from abroad which seem mandatory, the process can just take months. It helps if you have connections with the Communist Party but even with this the granting of Visa's can take a somewhat arbitrary amount of time. The bureaucratic process could do with being streamlined but I suspect it is deliberately onerous.
I am not Chinese but my Dad married a Chinese woman and spends half the year in Beijing. He has told me many stories from his wife's relatives about the hassle it can be for Chinese citizens to obtain Passports and Visas to travel abroad (to the UK).
I don't know specifics, but generally the granting of Visas has absolutely nothing to do with your own government. If the issue was the Visa and not the Passport, the domestic government is probably not the culprit.
Edit: ninjaed
Since around 2011, you cannot travel abroad unless you have the visa already prearranged, even if they allow visas on arrival. So no US visa, and immigration won't let him get on the plane.
well, according to Edison's blog, they did inform IEM about the meeting beforehand, and get to the arrange Jim's match to start early at 9am. (Turn out they might have met another bad admin or officer, as the match actually start at 10am)
So Jim finish his matches at 12. Probably before they leave, they grab a blizzard guy to talk with 'someone who is responsible for the match stuff'. also from Edison, 'we promised that we may return as late as 4:30pm, and will try our best, if thing doesn't go well, arrange the match tomorrow'.
when they got the mobile after the meeting, it's 4:50pm, and that's when they know Jim dq.
guess they have to wait 2 hours, the meeting with ambassador is at 3pm. It takes 1h at least from the venue to ambassador
On July 25 2013 20:49 revel8 wrote: It can be very difficult and time-consuming for Chinese citizens to get permission by their Government to travel abroad. As well as various written invitations from abroad which seem mandatory, the process can just take months. It helps if you have connections with the Communist Party but even with this the granting of Visa's can take a somewhat arbitrary amount of time. The bureaucratic process could do with being streamlined but I suspect it is deliberately onerous.
I am not Chinese but my Dad married a Chinese woman and spends half the year in Beijing. He has told me many stories from his wife's relatives about the hassle it can be for Chinese citizens to obtain Passports and Visas to travel abroad (to the UK).
I don't know specifics, but generally the granting of Visas has absolutely nothing to do with your own government. If the issue was the Visa and not the Passport, the domestic government is probably not the culprit.
Edit: ninjaed
Since around 2011, you cannot travel abroad unless you have the visa already prearranged, even if they allow visas on arrival. So no US visa, and immigration won't let him get on the plane.
Chinese never could in the first place, so doesn't really apply :p
I thought US was giving athletes visas to Esports players now, or was that only for LoL players because if thats how it is then i am so sad because sc2 players also deserve the same treatment. Look at how much we could avoid. I really thought Jim could go very far in WCS AM
On July 25 2013 20:49 revel8 wrote: It can be very difficult and time-consuming for Chinese citizens to get permission by their Government to travel abroad. As well as various written invitations from abroad which seem mandatory, the process can just take months. It helps if you have connections with the Communist Party but even with this the granting of Visa's can take a somewhat arbitrary amount of time. The bureaucratic process could do with being streamlined but I suspect it is deliberately onerous.
I am not Chinese but my Dad married a Chinese woman and spends half the year in Beijing. He has told me many stories from his wife's relatives about the hassle it can be for Chinese citizens to obtain Passports and Visas to travel abroad (to the UK).
I don't know specifics, but generally the granting of Visas has absolutely nothing to do with your own government. If the issue was the Visa and not the Passport, the domestic government is probably not the culprit.
Edit: ninjaed
Since around 2011, you cannot travel abroad unless you have the visa already prearranged, even if they allow visas on arrival. So no US visa, and immigration won't let him get on the plane.
Chinese never could in the first place, so doesn't really apply :p
Indeed. There is no visa-free travel for Chinese citizens going to the US. Its not like if you're, say, Australian, Canadian or from the EU and you can get a B1/B2 visas upon arrival with near-certainty.
On July 25 2013 21:05 zeratul_jf wrote: I thought US was giving athletes visas to Esports players now, or was that only for LoL players because if thats how it is then i am so sad because sc2 players also deserve the same treatment. Look at how much we could avoid. I really thought Jim could go very far in WCS AM
What Jim is looking for is a B1 visa (business traveller). If he came from a first world country it would be trivial to get, he only has issues because its generally difficult for a Chinese citizen to get a visa to the US.
The visa Riot fought for is only useful if you want to spend a long period of time in the US (it allows you to reside in the US for up to five years, IIRC). Just for a single tournament you don't need to have a long term visa.
Start WCS China for next year and move the WCS finals to China and the problem is fixed.
People have no problem getting to China for playing matches, it's just that chinese have a problem getting out. This isn't the first time players getting denied their visas and have to have replacements or just forefeiting.
Although I guess the chinese players are kind of screwed this year despite what.
So basically it answers my question. SC2 players aren't entitled to P1 visa. So basically they are screwed.
Blizzard do your thing right.
Wow I agree, i thought this entitled all esports players. I guess Blizzard needs to go and step up like Riot. I mean look how Visas are screwing over this tourney. And they only need the US because thats the one were people are dropping out of because of Visas. Europe everyone fine and then korea is just full of koreans so its fine but AM has a lot of everything.
On July 25 2013 20:22 Frankon wrote: Some questions: 1)is E-sport recognised in US as a type of sport? 2)Is it that hard to get P1 Visa to the US?
Just recently some LoL players got official long-term working visas, afaik for something like 3 years. And yes, the visas are officially for playing their game professionally. So esports beginning to be recognized as a US-regulated profession. I guess for Chinese citizens visas are much much more difficult to arrange than for other citizens, unfortunately.
Different situation, LoL is recognized as a sport, SC2 isn't. As such LoL players wanting to travel to the US can get professional athlete visas, SC2 players can't.
Riot is pushing to legitimize esports on several fronts. Blizzard is just trying to imitate LCS. The organisations and people we have involved in WCS are surely doing their best, but clearly they've been coming up short ever since the new structure was thought up. WCS needs much more support from different backgrounds to be even half as successful as LCS (and honestly half is reaching already).
Ironically China was one of the first countries to accept gamers as athletes.
Obviously I do have a dog in this fight. We regret that Jim had to forfeit his match. Every team that plays on an international level has been struck by visa issues one time or another. Daisy vs Jim would've been a very exciting match and Daisy had good chances to progress regardless already beating MC once today. We have to keep promoting esports, legitimizing esports and building a solid foundation for esports. Hopefully as it becomes more mainstream accepted, these issues will occur less and less.
I hope this doesn't sour the tournament for the viewers, there's still a large number of excellent players in the tournament. It'll only get more actionpacked from here.
ps. I totally support the theories that this is just a conspiracy to keep the Chinese from crushing the US players in WCS America.. Even though most of the other players are Korean... I BUILD FOR CHINA!
On July 25 2013 20:49 revel8 wrote: It can be very difficult and time-consuming for Chinese citizens to get permission by their Government to travel abroad. As well as various written invitations from abroad which seem mandatory, the process can just take months. It helps if you have connections with the Communist Party but even with this the granting of Visa's can take a somewhat arbitrary amount of time. The bureaucratic process could do with being streamlined but I suspect it is deliberately onerous.
I am not Chinese but my Dad married a Chinese woman and spends half the year in Beijing. He has told me many stories from his wife's relatives about the hassle it can be for Chinese citizens to obtain Passports and Visas to travel abroad (to the UK).
I don't know specifics, but generally the granting of Visas has absolutely nothing to do with your own government. If the issue was the Visa and not the Passport, the domestic government is probably not the culprit.
Edit: ninjaed
Since around 2011, you cannot travel abroad unless you have the visa already prearranged, even if they allow visas on arrival. So no US visa, and immigration won't let him get on the plane.
Chinese never could in the first place, so doesn't really apply :p
Indeed. There is no visa-free travel for Chinese citizens going to the US. Its not like if you're, say, Australian, Canadian or from the EU and you can get a B1/B2 visas upon arrival with near-certainty.
Being EU doesnt mean you dont have to get the Visa BEFORE boarding the plane..
So basically it answers my question. SC2 players aren't entitled to P1 visa. So basically they are screwed.
Blizzard do your thing right.
There are a bunch of good reasons you don't want to go that route (see Ultradavid's stuff). And its still not trivial to get a P1 visa - WCS is a ton more volatile then LCS, so I imagine (I am neither a lawyer nor an immigration specialist) it would be much harder to get things done.
On July 25 2013 19:24 Ketch wrote: What causes these Visa problems anyway... that's the worst part of it imho. Is it US government regulations? Then we should move WCS Americas to Mexico or something! :p
I can't point any country that can compare to US in terms of how hard it is to get Visa to get into the country? Every now and then there is a problem with someone obtaining a Visa for US tournament - I recall there was a problem with one of the Ukrainians (Kas, Strelok, DIMAGA?), viOLet, now Jim and that's probably not everything. Maybe US is not good for global esports.
On July 25 2013 20:49 revel8 wrote: It can be very difficult and time-consuming for Chinese citizens to get permission by their Government to travel abroad. As well as various written invitations from abroad which seem mandatory, the process can just take months. It helps if you have connections with the Communist Party but even with this the granting of Visa's can take a somewhat arbitrary amount of time. The bureaucratic process could do with being streamlined but I suspect it is deliberately onerous.
I am not Chinese but my Dad married a Chinese woman and spends half the year in Beijing. He has told me many stories from his wife's relatives about the hassle it can be for Chinese citizens to obtain Passports and Visas to travel abroad (to the UK).
I don't know specifics, but generally the granting of Visas has absolutely nothing to do with your own government. If the issue was the Visa and not the Passport, the domestic government is probably not the culprit.
Edit: ninjaed
Since around 2011, you cannot travel abroad unless you have the visa already prearranged, even if they allow visas on arrival. So no US visa, and immigration won't let him get on the plane.
Hmm, sounds like the same system between US and BR then (you have to have a visa before you board the plane). Still, can't blame the chinese government for US visa issues (at least not in an individual basis).
On July 25 2013 19:24 Ketch wrote: What causes these Visa problems anyway... that's the worst part of it imho. Is it US government regulations? Then we should move WCS Americas to Mexico or something! :p
I can't point any country that can compare to US in terms of how hard it is to get Visa to get into the country? Every now and then there is a problem with someone obtaining a Visa for US tournament - I recall there was a problem with one of the Ukrainians (Kas, Strelok, DIMAGA?), viOLet, now Jim and that's probably not everything. Maybe US is not good for global esports.
On July 25 2013 19:24 Ketch wrote: What causes these Visa problems anyway... that's the worst part of it imho. Is it US government regulations? Then we should move WCS Americas to Mexico or something! :p
I can't point any country that can compare to US in terms of how hard it is to get Visa to get into the country? Every now and then there is a problem with someone obtaining a Visa for US tournament - I recall there was a problem with one of the Ukrainians (Kas, Strelok, DIMAGA?), viOLet, now Jim and that's probably not everything. Maybe US is not good for global esports.
Try getting into Saudi as an atheist. Putting that crap down on my application form is the stupidest damn thing I've ever done.
Edit: Also, generally it seems like the Indian, Pakistani and Iraqi passports are hugely problematic, at least based on some conversations I've had with some folks with those passports.
On July 25 2013 20:49 revel8 wrote: It can be very difficult and time-consuming for Chinese citizens to get permission by their Government to travel abroad. As well as various written invitations from abroad which seem mandatory, the process can just take months. It helps if you have connections with the Communist Party but even with this the granting of Visa's can take a somewhat arbitrary amount of time. The bureaucratic process could do with being streamlined but I suspect it is deliberately onerous.
I am not Chinese but my Dad married a Chinese woman and spends half the year in Beijing. He has told me many stories from his wife's relatives about the hassle it can be for Chinese citizens to obtain Passports and Visas to travel abroad (to the UK).
I don't know specifics, but generally the granting of Visas has absolutely nothing to do with your own government. If the issue was the Visa and not the Passport, the domestic government is probably not the culprit.
Edit: ninjaed
You are correct, but citizens from different countries are treated differently from each other when applying for Visas. Chinese citizens I know have had great problems obtaining a Visa for Schengen countries (Some EU countries), and elsewhere. Personally, I have travelled to about 20 different countries around the World and as a UK Citizen had no problem getting a Visa at all. It is all to do with the relationship/travel arrangements that countries have with each other.
The US has noticeably tightened up it's immigration controls since 2001. I travelled to New York in Summer 2002 and was shocked at how different the treatment I received going through US Passport Control compared to a few years before. Previously it had been typical friendliness similar to US customer service standards, afterwards it was all thumb prints and pointed questions and suspicious glares and pseudo-interrogation about my choice of flight! They even made me take off my trainers so they could check them out! Understandable, I guess.
On July 25 2013 19:24 Ketch wrote: What causes these Visa problems anyway... that's the worst part of it imho. Is it US government regulations? Then we should move WCS Americas to Mexico or something! :p
I can't point any country that can compare to US in terms of how hard it is to get Visa to get into the country? Every now and then there is a problem with someone obtaining a Visa for US tournament - I recall there was a problem with one of the Ukrainians (Kas, Strelok, DIMAGA?), viOLet, now Jim and that's probably not everything. Maybe US is not good for global esports.
I think Indian visa is just as bad if not worse.
Even for Pakistanis Indian visa is trivial. While I only had Pakistani citizenship I traveled to many countries, and no where did I meet the class of racist assholes that dominate uscis. Even with a citizenship, I am constantly harassed at cbp. In the last year while travelling for a family emergency, I messed not one but two connecting flights because of the red room interrogation that I thought was jut for foreigners.
No where in the world have I felt more like a cockroach than the uscis offices and at CBP.
Some excerpt of iG coach Edison's statement (sorry in a hurry to explain, didn't check if there were any translations already) : Their visa agency arranged two possible interview times: 9am 24th and 2pm 25th which is today, MacSed has his WCS matches to play on 24th so they can only go today. So they talked with ESL to have Jim's Open Bracket matches playing at 9am in the morning so they can finish it early but his matches were delayed for two hours, when he went to winner's finals it's already 12pm so he have to go, ESL gave them a deadline of 4pm, if he can return by that time they can delay his matches till then but they did not make it in time, and their visas didn't work out.
Well blizz should push some money towards lobby in the US to acknowledge SC2 as an esport same as LoL, but knowing them we would get the trademark "Soon" answer.
On July 25 2013 22:03 vidium wrote: Well blizz should push some money towards lobby in the US to acknowledge SC2 as an esport same as LoL, but knowing them we would get the trademark "Soon" answer.
That is a super hard process to get done and it costs a lot. Also, I think it is easier for LoL, since Riot controls the entire LCS, who enteres and provides them with salary. Still, Blizzard should try to at least reach out to the US and find out what they would need to do help player like Jim get Visa's.
On July 25 2013 22:18 geokilla wrote: I don't understand the hate.. Visas aren't given out overnight, especially in China.
Its not hate, people are just upset because they wanted Jim to be able to play. They applied for the Visa awhile ago, but only got an appointment recently.
On July 25 2013 19:08 TAMinator wrote: Hopefully he gets his visa in time for WCS. If not, I know Rotterdam said he'll ask Blizzard for some help if it needs to come down to that.
Not possible, visa interview to US for Chinese usually needs a long time to be able to get an appointment, students usually arrange visa interview at least couple months in advance. And a rejection is very hard to reverse to an approval, some people can interview 3 to 4 times and never get an approval.
A company can't do much, this is politics and diplomatic procedure between US and China, and his reason to US to attend an e-sports tournament is not too strong also, even students with scholarship got denied sometimes. Even if Blizzard put 100k dollars into Jim's Bank account in China, and he can get an appointment in such a short time, probably still a rejection.
On July 25 2013 22:18 geokilla wrote: I don't understand the hate.. Visas aren't given out overnight, especially in China.
Its not hate, people are just upset because they wanted Jim to be able to play. They applied for the Visa awhile ago, but only got an appointment recently.
Most European who never traveled outside Eurozone tends to think visa as something you just go pick up during lunch break (which I did multiple times while living in Finland).
On July 25 2013 19:08 TAMinator wrote: Hopefully he gets his visa in time for WCS. If not, I know Rotterdam said he'll ask Blizzard for some help if it needs to come down to that.
Not possible, visa interview to US for Chinese usually needs a long time to be able to get an appointment, students usually arrange visa interview at least couple months in advance. And a rejection is very hard to reverse to an approve, some people can interview 3 to 4 times and never get an approve.
A company can't do much, this is politics and diplomatic procedure between US and China, and his reason to US to attend an e-sports tournament is not too strong also, even students with scholarship got denied sometimes.
Ouch, that is really rough if it turns out that way. I know Blizzard and other companies have been able to clear up Visa issues in the past, but they were never with China and mostly countries the US is on good terms with.
On July 25 2013 19:08 TAMinator wrote: Hopefully he gets his visa in time for WCS. If not, I know Rotterdam said he'll ask Blizzard for some help if it needs to come down to that.
Not possible, visa interview to US for Chinese usually needs a long time to be able to get an appointment, students usually arrange visa interview at least couple months in advance. And a rejection is very hard to reverse to an approve, some people can interview 3 to 4 times and never get an approve.
A company can't do much, this is politics and diplomatic procedure between US and China, and his reason to US to attend an e-sports tournament is not too strong also, even students with scholarship got denied sometimes.
From my experience, the easiest method to rejection overturned is to have a congressman or a senator make a phone call. Nearly all cases I know that took less than 6 months were done that way. Not that it's easy by any means but just maybe Blizz can get something done. Is there any esports loving congressman out there?
sc2 progamer: yes id like to get a visa to travel to the USA to play starcraft 2. US government: sounds sketchy. visa denied for possible terrorism threat
On July 25 2013 22:44 dantawangzi wrote: I dont get it, all the dota 2 players from China get us visa like no problem, why it is so hard for a sc2 player??
It's totally random, 75% of success depends on what kind of mood the interview officer was in.
On July 25 2013 19:08 TAMinator wrote: Hopefully he gets his visa in time for WCS. If not, I know Rotterdam said he'll ask Blizzard for some help if it needs to come down to that.
Not possible, visa interview to US for Chinese usually needs a long time to be able to get an appointment, students usually arrange visa interview at least couple months in advance. And a rejection is very hard to reverse to an approve, some people can interview 3 to 4 times and never get an approve.
A company can't do much, this is politics and diplomatic procedure between US and China, and his reason to US to attend an e-sports tournament is not too strong also, even students with scholarship got denied sometimes.
From my experience, the easiest method to rejection overturned is to have a congressman or a senator make a phone call. Nearly all cases I know that took less than 6 months were done that way. Not that it's easy by any means but just maybe Blizz can get something done. Is there any esports loving congressman out there?
Not sure what Blizzard must do, but it is what they always say when players can't come to their events. I cannot remember an instance where they were succesful.
Work visas are a pain in the ass, I had to get one once when I moved to South Africa and their home affairs office gave me the runaround for almost three months. Lesson learned: do that shit way ahead of time or you'll regret it.
On topic, is there any possibility left to get an visa on time or is there only one chance you can get?
For US Visas you got the possibility to appeal, but since it was chinese administration which denied the visa apparently (at least how I understand this thread), it is not gonna be that easy.
I am really wondering how E-Sport teams like iG do not have success with applying for visas. Other "athletes" (plus trainers etc.) from china travel the world.
On July 25 2013 19:09 dignitasDreAm wrote: [quote] agreed
The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament?
no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that
As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match.
just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played
That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament?
because of extraordinary circumstances
rules don't exist for the sake of having rules, they exist to better the tournament
extraordinary circumstances he himself (or his team) is/are responsible for. Why wasnt this Visa issue sorted out before taking part in this tournament?
because meetings are at the pleasure of the embassy, not yours
This is exactly right, was told by iG.Edison(MacSed/Jim's team coach) that they waited outside the embassy standing for 2 hours in 40 degrees heat and another hour inside the embassy, just to get their visas denied after visa officer looked at their WCS invitation briefly.
On topic, is there any possibility left to get an visa on time or is there only one chance you can get?
For US Visas you got the possibility to appeal, but since it was chinese administration which denied the visa apparently (at least how I understand this thread), it is not gonna be that easy.
I am really wondering how E-Sport teams like iG do not have success with applying for visas. Other "athletes" (plus trainers etc.) from china travel the world.
No it was not. It was American embassy.
Chinese can't deny Visa to other countries >.<
I don't get where people get the idea that it's Chinese administration that rejected them as multiple people said that, but nothing in the OP would suggest so.
On topic, is there any possibility left to get an visa on time or is there only one chance you can get?
For US Visas you got the possibility to appeal, but since it was chinese administration which denied the visa apparently (at least how I understand this thread), it is not gonna be that easy.
I am really wondering how E-Sport teams like iG do not have success with applying for visas. Other "athletes" (plus trainers etc.) from china travel the world.
To be simple, other "athletes" have money, e-sports kids don't, much higher chance to be denied.
On topic, is there any possibility left to get an visa on time or is there only one chance you can get?
For US Visas you got the possibility to appeal, but since it was chinese administration which denied the visa apparently (at least how I understand this thread), it is not gonna be that easy.
I am really wondering how E-Sport teams like iG do not have success with applying for visas. Other "athletes" (plus trainers etc.) from china travel the world.
To be simple, other "athletes" have money, e-sports kids don't, much higher chance to be denied.
Jim comes from an extremely wealthy family that doesn't need him to take care of them when they get old. That's how he was able to go pro at 17 years of age when his classmates were forced to study 14 hours a day to get their shot at taking university entrance exams.
Trust me. I lived in China for a year, my major is Chinese. I know what I'm talking about when I say this.
On topic, is there any possibility left to get an visa on time or is there only one chance you can get?
For US Visas you got the possibility to appeal, but since it was chinese administration which denied the visa apparently (at least how I understand this thread), it is not gonna be that easy.
I am really wondering how E-Sport teams like iG do not have success with applying for visas. Other "athletes" (plus trainers etc.) from china travel the world.
To be simple, other "athletes" have money, e-sports kids don't, much higher chance to be denied.
Jim comes from an extremely wealthy family that doesn't need him to take care of them when they get old. That's how he was able to go pro at 17 years of age when his classmates were forced to study 14 hours a day to get their shot at taking university entrance exams.
Trust me. I lived in China for a year, my major is Chinese. I know what I'm talking about when I say this.
Then it must be a preparation or language problem. The reason of attending an e-sports tournament is pretty weak too, and they probably met an officer with sour mood today.
On July 25 2013 22:44 dantawangzi wrote: I dont get it, all the dota 2 players from China get us visa like no problem, why it is so hard for a sc2 player??
Its a time thing. If you know 4 months in advance that you're going to TI3 its not that hard to get a visa. If you know two weeks in advance that you're going to WCS it suddenly becomes very hard to get a visa.
On July 25 2013 22:51 Jampackedeon wrote: Didn't I just read that the US now recognizes Esports as a valid reason to give visas (thanks to some lobbying by LoL apparently).
Does that not also apply to SC2 players?
It has nothing to do with Jim and Macsed's situation. Riot's lobying is related to P1 visas, which allows the players to reside in the US long term (3-5 years) and to be salaried. More than likely Jim and Macsed tried to get a B1 visa, which is the easiest US visa to get (along with the B2 visa) and would be sufficient to come to the US and compete for a tournament that offers prize money.
On July 25 2013 23:09 FSKi wrote: Blizzard clearly needs to get on Riot's level in terms of government involvement. Unfortunately for them, its a lot tougher when you have single players instead of teams like in traditional American sports. I say this because it is a lot easier for an organization to say "Yeah this player will be guaranteed X amount of time in on one of our teams for $Y" compared to something like "Yeah we want to fly this foreigner in for one weekend, maybe two, so he can possibly have a chance at $X, and after that we have no idea what his/her plans are."
Again, that's covered by B1 visas. A B1 visa is easier to get than a P1 anyway, you don't need to demonstrate that you are "world class". The problem is likely that there wasn't enough time between the Ro32 and the Ro16.
If Blizzard required residency to compete in WCS then, yes, allowing SC players to get a P1 visa would become a necessity. But the problem would likely have been solved has Jim and Macsed been able to book their travel to the US three or four months ago.
Trust me. I lived in China for a year, my major is Chinese. I know what I'm talking about when I say this.
So it's enough to live in the same 1,3 billion population country and study it's language, and you're suddenly an expert on particular progamers biography.
On July 25 2013 19:08 TAMinator wrote: Hopefully he gets his visa in time for WCS. If not, I know Rotterdam said he'll ask Blizzard for some help if it needs to come down to that.
Not possible, visa interview to US for Chinese usually needs a long time to be able to get an appointment, students usually arrange visa interview at least couple months in advance. And a rejection is very hard to reverse to an approve, some people can interview 3 to 4 times and never get an approve.
A company can't do much, this is politics and diplomatic procedure between US and China, and his reason to US to attend an e-sports tournament is not too strong also, even students with scholarship got denied sometimes.
Ouch, that is really rough if it turns out that way. I know Blizzard and other companies have been able to clear up Visa issues in the past, but they were never with China and mostly countries the US is on good terms with.
Illegal immigration also plays a part in it. The US doesn't care much when people visiting are from other developed countries. My former country is friendly to the US and it is still hard to get a visa because of the volume of people who want to live in the US and overstay their visas.
On July 25 2013 19:08 TAMinator wrote: Hopefully he gets his visa in time for WCS. If not, I know Rotterdam said he'll ask Blizzard for some help if it needs to come down to that.
Not possible, visa interview to US for Chinese usually needs a long time to be able to get an appointment, students usually arrange visa interview at least couple months in advance. And a rejection is very hard to reverse to an approve, some people can interview 3 to 4 times and never get an approve.
A company can't do much, this is politics and diplomatic procedure between US and China, and his reason to US to attend an e-sports tournament is not too strong also, even students with scholarship got denied sometimes.
Ouch, that is really rough if it turns out that way. I know Blizzard and other companies have been able to clear up Visa issues in the past, but they were never with China and mostly countries the US is on good terms with.
Illegal immigration also plays a part in it. The US doesn't care much when people visiting are from other developed countries. My former country is friendly to the US and it is still hard to get a visa because of the volume of people who want to live in the US and overstay their visas.
People want live in Europe as well, but most European treat visitors as guest, but US treat them as thieves and beggars.
Trust me. I lived in China for a year, my major is Chinese. I know what I'm talking about when I say this.
So it's enough to live in the same 1,3 billion population country and study it's language, and you're suddenly an expert on particular progamers biography.
Enders116 probably could have referenced his knowledge a little better but he does actually know what he's talking about. He's been really into the sc2 scene (CN/TW) as a bilingual caster.
On July 25 2013 23:09 FSKi wrote: Blizzard clearly needs to get on Riot's level in terms of government involvement. Unfortunately for them, its a lot tougher when you have single players instead of teams like in traditional American sports. I say this because it is a lot easier for an organization to say "Yeah this player will be guaranteed X amount of time in on one of our teams for $Y" compared to something like "Yeah we want to fly this foreigner in for one weekend, maybe two, so he can possibly have a chance at $X, and after that we have no idea what his/her plans are."
Again, that's covered by B1 visas. A B1 visa is easier to get than a P1 anyway, you don't need to demonstrate that you are "world class". The problem is likely that there wasn't enough time between the Ro32 and the Ro16.
If Blizzard required residency to compete in WCS then, yes, allowing SC players to get a P1 visa would become a necessity. But the problem would likely have been solved has Jim and Macsed been able to book their travel to the US three or four months ago.
It's still Blizzard's fault for not planning this event out. This should have been worked out months ago.
That might not have made a difference. People are saying that it can take several months(3-4) to get approval. There are any number of events that don't provide that much notice. I don't know what Jim was required to provide, but they likely have to say how long they are going to be in the US, which they wouldn't know until the exact dates of the matches are known. Even the GSL doesn't have their matched planned out 3-4 months in advance.
On July 25 2013 23:09 FSKi wrote: Blizzard clearly needs to get on Riot's level in terms of government involvement. Unfortunately for them, its a lot tougher when you have single players instead of teams like in traditional American sports. I say this because it is a lot easier for an organization to say "Yeah this player will be guaranteed X amount of time in on one of our teams for $Y" compared to something like "Yeah we want to fly this foreigner in for one weekend, maybe two, so he can possibly have a chance at $X, and after that we have no idea what his/her plans are."
Again, that's covered by B1 visas. A B1 visa is easier to get than a P1 anyway, you don't need to demonstrate that you are "world class". The problem is likely that there wasn't enough time between the Ro32 and the Ro16.
If Blizzard required residency to compete in WCS then, yes, allowing SC players to get a P1 visa would become a necessity. But the problem would likely have been solved has Jim and Macsed been able to book their travel to the US three or four months ago.
It's still Blizzard's fault for not planning this event out. This should have been worked out months ago.
Agreed, but its really not an issue for people from developed countries (getting a B1 visa is typically trivial for those in developed countries). Violet's case was somewhat unique due to the fact that he was already an alien living in the US, which can cause all sort of funky situations to come up and you can't really blame Blizzard for that one. But Blizzard knew that the Chinese players would be pushed into playing WCS NA due to now having a SEA or China region, they knew that visas could be a problem (they have had visa issues in the past) and they should have had contingencies in place.
On July 25 2013 23:09 FSKi wrote: Blizzard clearly needs to get on Riot's level in terms of government involvement. Unfortunately for them, its a lot tougher when you have single players instead of teams like in traditional American sports. I say this because it is a lot easier for an organization to say "Yeah this player will be guaranteed X amount of time in on one of our teams for $Y" compared to something like "Yeah we want to fly this foreigner in for one weekend, maybe two, so he can possibly have a chance at $X, and after that we have no idea what his/her plans are."
Again, that's covered by B1 visas. A B1 visa is easier to get than a P1 anyway, you don't need to demonstrate that you are "world class". The problem is likely that there wasn't enough time between the Ro32 and the Ro16.
If Blizzard required residency to compete in WCS then, yes, allowing SC players to get a P1 visa would become a necessity. But the problem would likely have been solved has Jim and Macsed been able to book their travel to the US three or four months ago.
It's still Blizzard's fault for not planning this event out. This should have been worked out months ago.
That might not have made a difference. People are saying that it can take several months(3-4) to get approval. There are any number of events that don't provide that much notice. I don't know what Jim was required to provide, but they likely have to say how long they are going to be in the US, which they wouldn't know until the exact dates of the matches are known. Even the GSL doesn't have their matched planned out 3-4 months in advance.
There would be a few possible solutions for that, including booking accommodation and travel any Chinese players that qualify for Premier (or even challenger from the previous season) right away and get them to apply for a visa then, regardless of whether or not they qualify for the live event. Alternatively, they could fly the players that can't get a visa to another location in another country (that has decent lag to the AM server) and get them to play from there. Not optimal, but it does beat the alternatives.
This really sucks that he got DQed cause of time while trying to fix his visa issues T_T hopefully in a year or so when WCS is super solid the US will recognize Sc2 players with LoL players.
On July 25 2013 23:09 FSKi wrote: Blizzard clearly needs to get on Riot's level in terms of government involvement. Unfortunately for them, its a lot tougher when you have single players instead of teams like in traditional American sports. I say this because it is a lot easier for an organization to say "Yeah this player will be guaranteed X amount of time in on one of our teams for $Y" compared to something like "Yeah we want to fly this foreigner in for one weekend, maybe two, so he can possibly have a chance at $X, and after that we have no idea what his/her plans are."
Again, that's covered by B1 visas. A B1 visa is easier to get than a P1 anyway, you don't need to demonstrate that you are "world class". The problem is likely that there wasn't enough time between the Ro32 and the Ro16.
If Blizzard required residency to compete in WCS then, yes, allowing SC players to get a P1 visa would become a necessity. But the problem would likely have been solved has Jim and Macsed been able to book their travel to the US three or four months ago.
It's still Blizzard's fault for not planning this event out. This should have been worked out months ago.
That might not have made a difference. People are saying that it can take several months(3-4) to get approval. There are any number of events that don't provide that much notice. I don't know what Jim was required to provide, but they likely have to say how long they are going to be in the US, which they wouldn't know until the exact dates of the matches are known. Even the GSL doesn't have their matched planned out 3-4 months in advance.
That's my point. This issue should have been known about and worked out long ago.
Clearly that would have been nice, but I don't know if they could have done it. They switched production companies part way through WCS and Jim would have needed to apply in May to get the fully 3-4 month. But yes, in an perfect world Blizzard would know the date of every single match for every season when WCS was announced.
On July 25 2013 22:44 dantawangzi wrote: I dont get it, all the dota 2 players from China get us visa like no problem, why it is so hard for a sc2 player??
Its a time thing. If you know 4 months in advance that you're going to TI3 its not that hard to get a visa. If you know two weeks in advance that you're going to WCS it suddenly becomes very hard to get a visa.
You need a valid invitation and confirmed plane tickets. Can't get those unless you already qualified. It's a real pain in the ass to get visas when you hold a Chinese passport
On July 25 2013 22:03 vidium wrote: Well blizz should push some money towards lobby in the US to acknowledge SC2 as an esport same as LoL, but knowing them we would get the trademark "Soon" answer.
LoL is waaay bigger so its easier to convince people and it still costs a ton not to mention this is not a decision made it in a day, god knows how long the negotiations went on.
On July 25 2013 20:49 revel8 wrote: It can be very difficult and time-consuming for Chinese citizens to get permission by their Government to travel abroad. As well as various written invitations from abroad which seem mandatory, the process can just take months. It helps if you have connections with the Communist Party but even with this the granting of Visa's can take a somewhat arbitrary amount of time. The bureaucratic process could do with being streamlined but I suspect it is deliberately onerous.
I am not Chinese but my Dad married a Chinese woman and spends half the year in Beijing. He has told me many stories from his wife's relatives about the hassle it can be for Chinese citizens to obtain Passports and Visas to travel abroad (to the UK).
I don't know specifics, but generally the granting of Visas has absolutely nothing to do with your own government. If the issue was the Visa and not the Passport, the domestic government is probably not the culprit.
Edit: ninjaed
Since around 2011, you cannot travel abroad unless you have the visa already prearranged, even if they allow visas on arrival. So no US visa, and immigration won't let him get on the plane.
Chinese never could in the first place, so doesn't really apply :p
Indeed. There is no visa-free travel for Chinese citizens going to the US. Its not like if you're, say, Australian, Canadian or from the EU and you can get a B1/B2 visas upon arrival with near-certainty.
Being EU doesnt mean you dont have to get the Visa BEFORE boarding the plane..
Wait... when visiting the US a while back, I'm pretty sure I simply showed up at the airport with a passport and just flew to the US, though I don't quite remember at what point people looked at my documents. This was because of the German passport, not EU?
On July 25 2013 20:49 revel8 wrote: It can be very difficult and time-consuming for Chinese citizens to get permission by their Government to travel abroad. As well as various written invitations from abroad which seem mandatory, the process can just take months. It helps if you have connections with the Communist Party but even with this the granting of Visa's can take a somewhat arbitrary amount of time. The bureaucratic process could do with being streamlined but I suspect it is deliberately onerous.
I am not Chinese but my Dad married a Chinese woman and spends half the year in Beijing. He has told me many stories from his wife's relatives about the hassle it can be for Chinese citizens to obtain Passports and Visas to travel abroad (to the UK).
I don't know specifics, but generally the granting of Visas has absolutely nothing to do with your own government. If the issue was the Visa and not the Passport, the domestic government is probably not the culprit.
Edit: ninjaed
Since around 2011, you cannot travel abroad unless you have the visa already prearranged, even if they allow visas on arrival. So no US visa, and immigration won't let him get on the plane.
Chinese never could in the first place, so doesn't really apply :p
Indeed. There is no visa-free travel for Chinese citizens going to the US. Its not like if you're, say, Australian, Canadian or from the EU and you can get a B1/B2 visas upon arrival with near-certainty.
Being EU doesnt mean you dont have to get the Visa BEFORE boarding the plane..
Wait... when visiting the US a while back, I'm pretty sure I simply showed up at the airport with a passport and just flew to the US, though I don't quite remember at what point people looked at my documents. This was because of the German passport, not EU?
Germany is not China. No country treats all other countries equally when it comes to Visas and passports. You may not have to do through the same process the Chinese players need to.
On July 25 2013 20:49 revel8 wrote: It can be very difficult and time-consuming for Chinese citizens to get permission by their Government to travel abroad. As well as various written invitations from abroad which seem mandatory, the process can just take months. It helps if you have connections with the Communist Party but even with this the granting of Visa's can take a somewhat arbitrary amount of time. The bureaucratic process could do with being streamlined but I suspect it is deliberately onerous.
I am not Chinese but my Dad married a Chinese woman and spends half the year in Beijing. He has told me many stories from his wife's relatives about the hassle it can be for Chinese citizens to obtain Passports and Visas to travel abroad (to the UK).
I don't know specifics, but generally the granting of Visas has absolutely nothing to do with your own government. If the issue was the Visa and not the Passport, the domestic government is probably not the culprit.
Edit: ninjaed
Since around 2011, you cannot travel abroad unless you have the visa already prearranged, even if they allow visas on arrival. So no US visa, and immigration won't let him get on the plane.
Chinese never could in the first place, so doesn't really apply :p
Indeed. There is no visa-free travel for Chinese citizens going to the US. Its not like if you're, say, Australian, Canadian or from the EU and you can get a B1/B2 visas upon arrival with near-certainty.
Being EU doesnt mean you dont have to get the Visa BEFORE boarding the plane..
Wait... when visiting the US a while back, I'm pretty sure I simply showed up at the airport with a passport and just flew to the US, though I don't quite remember at what point people looked at my documents. This was because of the German passport, not EU?
Germany is not China. No country treats all other countries equally when it comes to Visas and passports. You may not have to do through the same process the Chinese players need to.
My question is if it's like this for all of EU or not.
On July 25 2013 20:49 revel8 wrote: It can be very difficult and time-consuming for Chinese citizens to get permission by their Government to travel abroad. As well as various written invitations from abroad which seem mandatory, the process can just take months. It helps if you have connections with the Communist Party but even with this the granting of Visa's can take a somewhat arbitrary amount of time. The bureaucratic process could do with being streamlined but I suspect it is deliberately onerous.
I am not Chinese but my Dad married a Chinese woman and spends half the year in Beijing. He has told me many stories from his wife's relatives about the hassle it can be for Chinese citizens to obtain Passports and Visas to travel abroad (to the UK).
I don't know specifics, but generally the granting of Visas has absolutely nothing to do with your own government. If the issue was the Visa and not the Passport, the domestic government is probably not the culprit.
Edit: ninjaed
Since around 2011, you cannot travel abroad unless you have the visa already prearranged, even if they allow visas on arrival. So no US visa, and immigration won't let him get on the plane.
Chinese never could in the first place, so doesn't really apply :p
Indeed. There is no visa-free travel for Chinese citizens going to the US. Its not like if you're, say, Australian, Canadian or from the EU and you can get a B1/B2 visas upon arrival with near-certainty.
Being EU doesnt mean you dont have to get the Visa BEFORE boarding the plane..
Wait... when visiting the US a while back, I'm pretty sure I simply showed up at the airport with a passport and just flew to the US, though I don't quite remember at what point people looked at my documents. This was because of the German passport, not EU?
Germany is not China. No country treats all other countries equally when it comes to Visas and passports. You may not have to do through the same process the Chinese players need to.
My question is if it's like this for all of EU or not.
It's not. This is the case only for rich, western country so probably any country west of Poland + Scandinavia. Polish citizens need visa though I don't know if the procedure is the same as for the Chinese people. In case of Poland the visa problem with US comes and goes every year or so but truth be told - american presidents/senators don't feel like it's too important and for polish people I think it's less and less important to be able to freely fly to US.
Is there any practical reason why Jim and MacSed couldn't participate in WCS anyway from China?
I mean, lag sucks but I'm sure they'd rather play with the lag than not at all. And they can do interview through Skype or whatnot.They can even stick a dummy in the booth.
That's some serious bullshit. You don't see regular athletes not being able to compete in other countries. Perhaps tournaments could do something to make everything more compelling and easier for foreign players to get a visa, forfeiting a spot because of visa issues is really unfair.
On July 25 2013 23:58 vhapter wrote: That's some serious bullshit. You don't see regular athletes not being able to compete in other countries. Perhaps tournaments could do something to make everything more compelling and easier for foreign players to get a visa, forfeiting a spot because of visa issues is really unfair.
It actually happens quite frequently, just not with Olympics and such as they have special arrangement.
USA is very restrictive towards mainland Chinese on granting VISA access to country.
Many times people come on short-term VISA and then just move to the USA which the USA is trying to prevent. The USA has no good system for enforcing immigration so the USA does its "enforcement" up front by being very restrictive in granting VISA's to China and some other countries.
Chinese citizens are asked to prove that they will go back to China after their short-term stay and the US likes to see that they own a house in China or have significant financial assets in China. This standard works fine for most rich Chinese tourists to the US but puts esports players who often don't have significant financial assets in a rough spot.
On July 25 2013 23:57 ragz_gt wrote: Is there any practical reason why Jim and MacSed couldn't participate in WCS anyway from China?
I mean, lag sucks but I'm sure they'd rather play with the lag than not at all. And they can do interview through Skype or whatnot.They can even stick a dummy in the booth.
Beyond the reason of "rules are rules" Blizzard would likely need to check with their in house counsel to make sure they aren't violating any weird California law about competing for money. States have weird laws in regards to this stuff and changing the rules or requirements once the event has started is a good way to get in trouble. I don’t know the rules for California, but Massachusetts has very explicit laws about changing rules part way through, no matter what the reason is, if money is involved.
I think some ppl are under the misconception that "if they just planned ahead this wouldn't be a problem". There are many different types of visas, the ones you apply for when you go on vacation (a travel visa) are much easier to obtain.
What Macsed and Jim need are work visas (they are professional players, playing for money professionally, ie. working) and this is a much more difficult and much lengthier process for everyone regardless of nationality. Put on the fact that they're from China (as mentioned above its even more difficult for ppl from China to obtain visas) and this isn't really the fault of iG management or their players having "poor planning".
It was already mentioned above that they applied the moment the found out they qualified.
On July 25 2013 20:49 revel8 wrote: It can be very difficult and time-consuming for Chinese citizens to get permission by their Government to travel abroad. As well as various written invitations from abroad which seem mandatory, the process can just take months. It helps if you have connections with the Communist Party but even with this the granting of Visa's can take a somewhat arbitrary amount of time. The bureaucratic process could do with being streamlined but I suspect it is deliberately onerous.
I am not Chinese but my Dad married a Chinese woman and spends half the year in Beijing. He has told me many stories from his wife's relatives about the hassle it can be for Chinese citizens to obtain Passports and Visas to travel abroad (to the UK).
I don't know specifics, but generally the granting of Visas has absolutely nothing to do with your own government. If the issue was the Visa and not the Passport, the domestic government is probably not the culprit.
Edit: ninjaed
Since around 2011, you cannot travel abroad unless you have the visa already prearranged, even if they allow visas on arrival. So no US visa, and immigration won't let him get on the plane.
Chinese never could in the first place, so doesn't really apply :p
Indeed. There is no visa-free travel for Chinese citizens going to the US. Its not like if you're, say, Australian, Canadian or from the EU and you can get a B1/B2 visas upon arrival with near-certainty.
Being EU doesnt mean you dont have to get the Visa BEFORE boarding the plane..
Wait... when visiting the US a while back, I'm pretty sure I simply showed up at the airport with a passport and just flew to the US, though I don't quite remember at what point people looked at my documents. This was because of the German passport, not EU?
Germany is not China. No country treats all other countries equally when it comes to Visas and passports. You may not have to do through the same process the Chinese players need to.
My question is if it's like this for all of EU or not.
For all EU members except Poland, Croatia, Bulgaria. Romania and Cyprus. It's not an agreement with the EU though, but with the individual governments.
On July 26 2013 00:07 Gamegene wrote: somewhat sad considering LoL just removed this problem permanently for them.
It helps the Riot pays the players directly, which removes the need for the US government to worry about the players becoming stranded in the US without money. Unless Blizzard was willing to do the same, it will be hard for them to get the same level of Visa that Riot obtained for its players.
On July 25 2013 23:58 vhapter wrote: That's some serious bullshit. You don't see regular athletes not being able to compete in other countries. Perhaps tournaments could do something to make everything more compelling and easier for foreign players to get a visa, forfeiting a spot because of visa issues is really unfair.
Other sports are legally recognized as sports by both federal and state governments. If you want to see e-sports recognized as such, you are going to open a catastrophic can of worms.
Also, other sports have way more money then e-sports, and it makes it much, much easier to demonstrate that you're "legit". You may no bugger all about soccer, but when Man City drops by with their credentials, its pretty easy to get things done.
What a horrible day for Jim. Disqualified because he had to work on visa, then doesn`t get the visa. He would have deserved a big tournament appearence and now lost out on two.
On topic, is there any possibility left to get an visa on time or is there only one chance you can get?
For US Visas you got the possibility to appeal, but since it was chinese administration which denied the visa apparently (at least how I understand this thread), it is not gonna be that easy.
I am really wondering how E-Sport teams like iG do not have success with applying for visas. Other "athletes" (plus trainers etc.) from china travel the world.
To be simple, other "athletes" have money, e-sports kids don't, much higher chance to be denied.
Jim comes from an extremely wealthy family that doesn't need him to take care of them when they get old. That's how he was able to go pro at 17 years of age when his classmates were forced to study 14 hours a day to get their shot at taking university entrance exams.
Trust me. I lived in China for a year, my major is Chinese. I know what I'm talking about when I say this.
If his family is extremely wealthy, then his folks probably have the guanxi to get it done. Which means we'll probably hearing an update fairly soon.
On July 25 2013 19:11 grs wrote: [quote] The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament?
no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that
As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match.
just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played
That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament?
because of extraordinary circumstances
rules don't exist for the sake of having rules, they exist to better the tournament
extraordinary circumstances he himself (or his team) is/are responsible for. Why wasnt this Visa issue sorted out before taking part in this tournament?
because meetings are at the pleasure of the embassy, not yours
This is exactly right, was told by iG.Edison(MacSed/Jim's team coach) that they waited outside the embassy standing for 2 hours in 40 degrees heat and another hour inside the embassy, just to get their visas denied after visa officer looked at their WCS invitation briefly.
If this is true I hate my country even more now. Come on....
Trust me, it's not just the United States. Visas are a pain in the ass to get from any country, and a lot of the times the bullshit they throw your way was completely unnecessary.
I think a bit of fault could be put on Jim manager. It was written in this thread that they were given two possible dates for the visa interview. On 24th and 25th. Wasnt it possible to have Jim go on 24th and MacSed on 25th? There is a proverb dont put all your eggs into one basket, especially if its a known issue that in some cases the visa rejection is based on the official mood.
PS. If Jim went on 24th he would have no problems playing in the IEM and wouldnt be DQ,
On July 26 2013 00:31 Frankon wrote: I think a bit of fault could be put on Jim manager. It was written in this thread that they were given two possible dates for the visa interview. On 24th and 25th. Wasnt it possible to have Jim go on 24th and MacSed on 25th?
you get to 'choose' _1_ of they date they set for you not both...
no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that
As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match.
just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played
That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament?
because of extraordinary circumstances
rules don't exist for the sake of having rules, they exist to better the tournament
extraordinary circumstances he himself (or his team) is/are responsible for. Why wasnt this Visa issue sorted out before taking part in this tournament?
because meetings are at the pleasure of the embassy, not yours
This is exactly right, was told by iG.Edison(MacSed/Jim's team coach) that they waited outside the embassy standing for 2 hours in 40 degrees heat and another hour inside the embassy, just to get their visas denied after visa officer looked at their WCS invitation briefly.
If this is true I hate my country even more now. Come on....
Trust me, it's not just the United States. Visas are a pain in the ass to get from any country, and a lot of the times the bullshit they throw your way was completely unnecessary.
I just recently got my VISA for the US. It took me 6 months to get it. 6 months full of fail communication, slow institutions, probably getting all of my emails observed by the NSA, paying a lot of money and having generally a lot of stress. A lot of colleagues shared their experience with getting VISA for other countries. No comparison. VISA for the US is the most annoying one, by far.
On July 26 2013 00:31 Frankon wrote: I think a bit of fault could be put on Jim manager. It was written in this thread that they were given two possible dates for the visa interview. On 24th and 25th. Wasnt it possible to have Jim go on 24th and MacSed on 25th?
you get to 'choose' _1_ of they date they set for you not both...
And i thought that each case is done separately...
On topic, is there any possibility left to get an visa on time or is there only one chance you can get?
For US Visas you got the possibility to appeal, but since it was chinese administration which denied the visa apparently (at least how I understand this thread), it is not gonna be that easy.
I am really wondering how E-Sport teams like iG do not have success with applying for visas. Other "athletes" (plus trainers etc.) from china travel the world.
To be simple, other "athletes" have money, e-sports kids don't, much higher chance to be denied.
Jim comes from an extremely wealthy family that doesn't need him to take care of them when they get old. That's how he was able to go pro at 17 years of age when his classmates were forced to study 14 hours a day to get their shot at taking university entrance exams.
Trust me. I lived in China for a year, my major is Chinese. I know what I'm talking about when I say this.
If his family is extremely wealthy, then his folks probably have the guanxi to get it done. Which means we'll probably hearing an update fairly soon.
They need help on US sides, not Chinese side, so not gonna help much.
On July 25 2013 19:24 grs wrote: [quote] As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match.
just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played
That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament?
because of extraordinary circumstances
rules don't exist for the sake of having rules, they exist to better the tournament
extraordinary circumstances he himself (or his team) is/are responsible for. Why wasnt this Visa issue sorted out before taking part in this tournament?
because meetings are at the pleasure of the embassy, not yours
This is exactly right, was told by iG.Edison(MacSed/Jim's team coach) that they waited outside the embassy standing for 2 hours in 40 degrees heat and another hour inside the embassy, just to get their visas denied after visa officer looked at their WCS invitation briefly.
If this is true I hate my country even more now. Come on....
Trust me, it's not just the United States. Visas are a pain in the ass to get from any country, and a lot of the times the bullshit they throw your way was completely unnecessary.
I just recently got my VISA for the US. It took me 6 months to get it. 6 months full of fail communication, slow institutions, probably getting all of my emails observed by the NSA, paying a lot of money and having generally a lot of stress. A lot of colleagues shared their experience with getting VISA for other countries. No comparison. VISA for the US is the most annoying one, by far.
It's because U.S. visas tend to be exploited for other matters. It's very hard because people do things with the visa to attempt to stay in the U.S., that makes our immigration policies fairly rigid, and visas harder to get.
no it's just him vs MC 1v1 for spot in groups, there's nothign after that
As I see the bracket, it is him vs Daisy and the loser vs MC. It would be not right just to have him play the last match.
just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played
That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament?
because of extraordinary circumstances
rules don't exist for the sake of having rules, they exist to better the tournament
extraordinary circumstances he himself (or his team) is/are responsible for. Why wasnt this Visa issue sorted out before taking part in this tournament?
because meetings are at the pleasure of the embassy, not yours
This is exactly right, was told by iG.Edison(MacSed/Jim's team coach) that they waited outside the embassy standing for 2 hours in 40 degrees heat and another hour inside the embassy, just to get their visas denied after visa officer looked at their WCS invitation briefly.
If this is true I hate my country even more now. Come on....
Trust me, it's not just the United States. Visas are a pain in the ass to get from any country, and a lot of the times the bullshit they throw your way was completely unnecessary.
That is a true statement. When I was graduating college I tried to get a visa to Italy for a family trip. But they kept having issues with my application with the same information that they let my parents in on... The ones that require an interview are worse as the interview slots can fill up way in advance.
just say daisy gets the defwin but have the loser final be played
That would be unreasonable. Why should Daisy get the freeride and MC not? Also again: Why does he just leave the venue during a tournament?
because of extraordinary circumstances
rules don't exist for the sake of having rules, they exist to better the tournament
extraordinary circumstances he himself (or his team) is/are responsible for. Why wasnt this Visa issue sorted out before taking part in this tournament?
because meetings are at the pleasure of the embassy, not yours
This is exactly right, was told by iG.Edison(MacSed/Jim's team coach) that they waited outside the embassy standing for 2 hours in 40 degrees heat and another hour inside the embassy, just to get their visas denied after visa officer looked at their WCS invitation briefly.
If this is true I hate my country even more now. Come on....
Trust me, it's not just the United States. Visas are a pain in the ass to get from any country, and a lot of the times the bullshit they throw your way was completely unnecessary.
I just recently got my VISA for the US. It took me 6 months to get it. 6 months full of fail communication, slow institutions, probably getting all of my emails observed by the NSA, paying a lot of money and having generally a lot of stress. A lot of colleagues shared their experience with getting VISA for other countries. No comparison. VISA for the US is the most annoying one, by far.
It's because U.S. visas tend to be exploited for other matters. It's very hard because people do things with the visa to attempt to stay in the U.S., that makes our immigration policies fairly rigid, and visas harder to get.
This is correct. Still felt like a slap to my german engineering face.
So if Jim/Macsed can't make WCS Ro16 (which I hope they end up making it to for the record) are they just going to eave 1/4 of the matches as walkovers or bump people up?
It sucks balls for the Chinese players that they can't get visas, but it would also suck balls for viewers to have the WCS AM finals have matches cut out.
On July 26 2013 01:12 jinorazi wrote: I bet riot has a huge grin
Uh huh.
I love that no matter what happens, its always turns into "I bet this other game is laughing now". Like the NFL is laughing at all the MLB stars being dragged in for drug use.
lets be honest: the only reason eastern european and chinese players have so many problems is because of diplomatic relations.
this is a byproduct of politics. these guys would need a whole half year to prepare for the visa and argue about it. The us embassy in shanghai is also exceptionally shitty they have you wait in line outside lol
I might be the only one with this thought process, but couldn't they have scheduled the meeting long before it was known that he was going to qualify? I know the visa system is crap in most cases, but I find it hard to believe that there are constantly Koreans able to come to America to take part in tournaments without any issues and yet these guys who get denied have done everything they need to do according to the word of the officials who handle these things.
I know personally that if I was in the same position I would have made sure I crossed all my t's and dotted all my i's when I decided to take part in a tournament that would require me to go to another country if I did well.
I don't know the whole situation, and I mean no disrespect, but I do think that there being so many other cases with players getting visas to get to the US working without an issue that something had to have been done incorrectly or not at all long enough in advance.
As for the IEM thing, didn't they have the WB final take place last to give him as much time as possible to get to that match? I think that allowing him to play the LB final but not requiring that he play the WB final as well would be an unfair decision placed upon the LB finalist for the extenuating circumstances. Who's to say Jim wouldn't have beaten Daisy and MC also would have beaten Daisy the second time around? Too many factors. Everything else about the postponing of matches etc. was out of the tournament's control (closing venue, Jim's visa issues) so I see nothing at all wrong with how they handled this.
It's unfortunate, and I don't want to lose out on games that I'd like to see, but I don't fault the tournament in the least here.
Well, this type of thing happens when dealing in a globally competitive environment....and IEM could go either way, if you are late for matches then you are disqualified, if they want to make an exception they can
On July 26 2013 01:23 Noobity wrote: I might be the only one with this thought process, but couldn't they have scheduled the meeting long before it was known that he was going to qualify? I know the visa system is crap in most cases, but I find it hard to believe that there are constantly Koreans able to come to America to take part in tournaments without any issues and yet these guys who get denied have done everything they need to do according to the word of the officials who handle these things.
I know personally that if I was in the same position I would have made sure I crossed all my t's and dotted all my i's when I decided to take part in a tournament that would require me to go to another country if I did well.
I don't know the whole situation, and I mean no disrespect, but I do think that there being so many other cases with players getting visas to get to the US working without an issue that something had to have been done incorrectly or not at all long enough in advance.
As for the IEM thing, didn't they have the WB final take place last to give him as much time as possible to get to that match? I think that allowing him to play the LB final but not requiring that he play the WB final as well would be an unfair decision placed upon the LB finalist for the extenuating circumstances. Who's to say Jim wouldn't have beaten Daisy and MC also would have beaten Daisy the second time around? Too many factors. Everything else about the postponing of matches etc. was out of the tournament's control (closing venue, Jim's visa issues) so I see nothing at all wrong with how they handled this.
It's unfortunate, and I don't want to lose out on games that I'd like to see, but I don't fault the tournament in the least here.
For US, Korean is basically another state. However, China is the front line enemy, can't equal these two. Even Iranian can get Visa to US easier than Chinese.
Without certain document, you can't even schedule the interview, let alone pass it. Once you get the proper document from inviting company, you probably have only couple days to choose from in such a short period. Interview process are totally subjective, interview officer don't need to give you reason to reject you. And interview fee can't be ignored, couple hundred dollars per person probably. It's a grueling process, I went through it many years ago at the very same office in Shanghai.
This really deflates IEM Shanghai for me. Not that I'm angry with IEM or anything, it's just that there's something insanely interesting about this "unknown" making a splash on the scene. It reminds me so much of Scarlett's rise.
I don't know if the decision (to DQ) is irreversible, but if not, I sincerely hope the IEM admins can find some alternative. Those Chinese guys get screwed enough as it is and this is their "hometown". =(
On July 26 2013 00:59 desRow wrote: I tried to look for his fanclub here on TL but he doesn't have one Where can we show our support for Jim and cheer him up? T.QQ?
Thing is, Riot is an esports company. They need to push for that stuff because it's their business. Blizzard has always been a game developer. Esports isnt what they do, and it only involves one of the games they make. They have to explain to their board and investors why they should be putting resources towards such things.
It should be the teams themselves to push for getting SC2 recognized as an sport. They are the ones in the business of esports, not Blizzard. It would probably be a lot easier if teams were organized like Kespa (but without being overly tyrannical).
Oh and we should totally pitchfork IEM until they Un-disquialify Jim. It's the right thing for them to do, so I dont feel bad about raising some pitchforks. I don't see the issue here. No one is crying foul and saying these players shouldn't get to play. People want to see them play, and I'm sure IEM doesnt want to be known for screwing Chinese players on Chinese soil.
On July 26 2013 01:12 jinorazi wrote: I bet riot has a huge grin
Uh huh.
I love that no matter what happens, its always turns into "I bet this other game is laughing now". Like the NFL is laughing at all the MLB stars being dragged in for drug use.
no, its because riot took care of visa issues, they saw things like this coming. nothing to do with game vs game, i guess i should have made it clear but i assumed many knew of that esports athlete thing already.
Sucks about the visa but... This exact scearnio is the manager's fault. Knowing how difficult it is to get visas for the US from China, taking the risk of being DQ'd from IEM for it is a bad decision. It's Edison trying to have his cake and eat it too. For another person in another circumstance, that's a valid risk to take. But for Jim, a 17 year old Chinese player, it is not.
It's all Blizzard's fault. Plain and simple. After all, WCS is their tournament and they should take care of every issues that arises (even uncommon ones like visas).
I read IEM officials waited (together with Jims opponents) for almost 5 hours (30 Minutes before the Event closes) and only then DQed him. I know this sucks, but they just have to follow the rules.
On July 26 2013 01:12 jinorazi wrote: I bet riot has a huge grin
Uh huh.
I love that no matter what happens, its always turns into "I bet this other game is laughing now". Like the NFL is laughing at all the MLB stars being dragged in for drug use.
no, its because riot took care of visa issues, they saw things like this coming. nothing to do with game vs game, i guess i should have made it clear but i assumed many knew of that esports athlete thing already.
Its easier to do that when the players in your league are employees(aka, you pay them money). It much harder to do that when your request is
"Can you approve visas for the random people who qualify for our events? We dont' pay them or anything, they just qualify and we would like them to attend. By the way, we don't really run the events, other people we employ do. Also, we can't confirm who the people are that qualify or provide any documents or information on who they are. The only thing we can confirm is that they are really good at our game.
Thanks Blizzard We are big on the internet, trust us"
On July 26 2013 01:12 jinorazi wrote: I bet riot has a huge grin
Uh huh.
I love that no matter what happens, its always turns into "I bet this other game is laughing now". Like the NFL is laughing at all the MLB stars being dragged in for drug use.
no, its because riot took care of visa issues, they saw things like this coming. nothing to do with game vs game, i guess i should have made it clear but i assumed many knew of that esports athlete thing already.
Its easier to do that when the players in your league are employees(aka, you pay them money). It much harder to do that when your request is
"Can you approve visas for the random people who qualify for our events? We dont' pay them or anything, they just qualify and we would like them to attend. By the way, we don't really run the events, other people we employ do. Also, we can't confirm who the people are that qualify or provide any documents or information on who they are. The only thing we can confirm is that they are really good at our game.
Thanks Blizzard We are big on the internet, trust us"
Getting a working visa is not a bit easier. See my posts above.
On July 26 2013 01:42 ssxsilver wrote: This really deflates IEM Shanghai for me. Not that I'm angry with IEM or anything, it's just that there's something insanely interesting about this "unknown" making a splash on the scene. It reminds me so much of Scarlett's rise.
I don't know if the decision (to DQ) is irreversible, but if not, I sincerely hope the IEM admins can find some alternative. Those Chinese guys get screwed enough as it is and this is their "hometown". =(
however, another reason why open play in WCS is stupid--especially for countries that dont have the best of ties with the US as far as immigration goes.
On July 26 2013 02:21 Azarkon wrote: Sucks about the visa but... This exact scearnio is the manager's fault. Knowing how difficult it is to get visas for the US from China, taking the risk of being DQ'd from IEM for it is a bad decision. It's Edison trying to have his cake and eat it too. For another person in another circumstance, that's a valid risk to take. But for Jim, a 17 year old Chinese player, it is not.
Now he has neither.
Hindsight is 20/20. You are suggesting iG to forfeit their possibility of going to US for Ro16. While they didn't work out, the chance of they get visa is still better than 50/50 (they did come for MLG without issue). Also, they would have to make the decision before knowing how they will do in IEM, perhaps even what IEM schedule would be like, as I'm sure US embassy just LOVE it when you schedule an appointment and not show up.
On July 25 2013 20:49 ragz_gt wrote: Usually the only thing that helps is get a letter or phone call from a congressman / senate. Is there any esports loving ones anyone can think of?
Don't worry. Obamatoss has already called obama to plead jim's case!
On July 26 2013 02:21 Azarkon wrote: Sucks about the visa but... This exact scearnio is the manager's fault. Knowing how difficult it is to get visas for the US from China, taking the risk of being DQ'd from IEM for it is a bad decision. It's Edison trying to have his cake and eat it too. For another person in another circumstance, that's a valid risk to take. But for Jim, a 17 year old Chinese player, it is not.
Now he has neither.
Hindsight is 20/20. You are suggesting iG to forfeit their possibility of going to US for Ro16. While they didn't work out, the chance of they get visa is still better than 50/50 (they did come for MLG without issue). Also, they would have to make the decision before knowing how they will do in IEM, perhaps even what IEM schedule would be like, as I'm sure US embassy just LOVE it when you schedule an appointment and not show up.
Edison should have sheduled Jim to go to embassy on 24th and MacSed on 25th. Since those were the two available dates. Each visa case is reviewed independently so there should be no problem with the guys going at different dates. Just more work for Edison.
On July 26 2013 02:33 dabom88 wrote: Wasn't there just a ruling that LoL players count as Athletes? Can't this be applied to SC2 as well?
Aparently LoL is sport, sc2 isnt (according to US government)
On July 26 2013 01:12 jinorazi wrote: I bet riot has a huge grin
Uh huh.
I love that no matter what happens, its always turns into "I bet this other game is laughing now". Like the NFL is laughing at all the MLB stars being dragged in for drug use.
no, its because riot took care of visa issues, they saw things like this coming. nothing to do with game vs game, i guess i should have made it clear but i assumed many knew of that esports athlete thing already.
Both Plansix and I made several comments in that thread. Your comment was cheap and baseless. Why? Because you make it look like it's us versus them. You say it has nothing to do with game versus game yet you just took it there.
On July 26 2013 01:12 jinorazi wrote: I bet riot has a huge grin
Uh huh.
I love that no matter what happens, its always turns into "I bet this other game is laughing now". Like the NFL is laughing at all the MLB stars being dragged in for drug use.
no, its because riot took care of visa issues, they saw things like this coming. nothing to do with game vs game, i guess i should have made it clear but i assumed many knew of that esports athlete thing already.
Its easier to do that when the players in your league are employees(aka, you pay them money). It much harder to do that when your request is
"Can you approve visas for the random people who qualify for our events? We dont' pay them or anything, they just qualify and we would like them to attend. By the way, we don't really run the events, other people we employ do. Also, we can't confirm who the people are that qualify or provide any documents or information on who they are. The only thing we can confirm is that they are really good at our game.
Thanks Blizzard We are big on the internet, trust us"
Getting a working visa is not a bit easier. See my posts above.
I know its not easier, but its POSSIBLE. Blizzard can't ask them for work visa, since they don't employee the players. They would need to work with the US government to fit the players into a current visa system or create a new one, which may not work.
On July 26 2013 02:21 Azarkon wrote: Sucks about the visa but... This exact scearnio is the manager's fault. Knowing how difficult it is to get visas for the US from China, taking the risk of being DQ'd from IEM for it is a bad decision. It's Edison trying to have his cake and eat it too. For another person in another circumstance, that's a valid risk to take. But for Jim, a 17 year old Chinese player, it is not.
Now he has neither.
Hindsight is 20/20. You are suggesting iG to forfeit their possibility of going to US for Ro16. While they didn't work out, the chance of they get visa is still better than 50/50 (they did come for MLG without issue). Also, they would have to make the decision before knowing how they will do in IEM, perhaps even what IEM schedule would be like, as I'm sure US embassy just LOVE it when you schedule an appointment and not show up.
Edison should have sheduled Jim to go to embassy on 24th and MacSed on 25th. Since those were the two available dates. Each visa case is reviewed independently so there should be no problem with the guys going at different dates. Just more work for Edison.
Don't forget the 2 dates were the case when they 2 filed as same case, so who knows what date they would get if filed separately, it could be more disastrous. As MacSed play today, so if they give Jim 24th and 25th, but MacSed 24th 26th to choose from, they'd be in the same situation.
Also, two trips = more things could potential go wrong. If they filed separately, and Jim got through but MacSed didn't, everyone would be like "OMG Edison is such a moron why didn't he do them both at same time", which, coincidentally, was exactly what they said last time.
On July 26 2013 01:12 jinorazi wrote: I bet riot has a huge grin
Uh huh.
I love that no matter what happens, its always turns into "I bet this other game is laughing now". Like the NFL is laughing at all the MLB stars being dragged in for drug use.
no, its because riot took care of visa issues, they saw things like this coming. nothing to do with game vs game, i guess i should have made it clear but i assumed many knew of that esports athlete thing already.
Both Plansix and I made several comments in that thread. Your comment was cheap and baseless. Why? Because you make it look like it's us versus them. You say it has nothing to do with game versus game yet you just took it there.
...it was a joke T.T
WHY AM I BEING RIDICULED!!! (<-- thats a joke too, empty words just to poke fun)
On July 26 2013 00:59 desRow wrote: I tried to look for his fanclub here on TL but he doesn't have one Where can we show our support for Jim and cheer him up? T.QQ?
On July 26 2013 01:12 jinorazi wrote: I bet riot has a huge grin
Uh huh.
I love that no matter what happens, its always turns into "I bet this other game is laughing now". Like the NFL is laughing at all the MLB stars being dragged in for drug use.
no, its because riot took care of visa issues, they saw things like this coming. nothing to do with game vs game, i guess i should have made it clear but i assumed many knew of that esports athlete thing already.
Both Plansix and I made several comments in that thread. Your comment was cheap and baseless. Why? Because you make it look like it's us versus them. You say it has nothing to do with game versus game yet you just took it there.
...it was a joke T.T
WHY AM I BEING RIDICULED!!! (<-- thats a joke too)
I realize it can be a joke but you have to realize it's very easy to take it the wrong way even with context.
On July 26 2013 01:12 jinorazi wrote: I bet riot has a huge grin
Uh huh.
I love that no matter what happens, its always turns into "I bet this other game is laughing now". Like the NFL is laughing at all the MLB stars being dragged in for drug use.
no, its because riot took care of visa issues, they saw things like this coming. nothing to do with game vs game, i guess i should have made it clear but i assumed many knew of that esports athlete thing already.
Both Plansix and I made several comments in that thread. Your comment was cheap and baseless. Why? Because you make it look like it's us versus them. You say it has nothing to do with game versus game yet you just took it there.
...it was a joke T.T
WHY AM I BEING RIDICULED!!! (<-- thats a joke too)
I realize it can be a joke but you have to realize it's very easy to take it the wrong way even with context.
On July 26 2013 01:12 jinorazi wrote: I bet riot has a huge grin
Uh huh.
I love that no matter what happens, its always turns into "I bet this other game is laughing now". Like the NFL is laughing at all the MLB stars being dragged in for drug use.
no, its because riot took care of visa issues, they saw things like this coming. nothing to do with game vs game, i guess i should have made it clear but i assumed many knew of that esports athlete thing already.
Its easier to do that when the players in your league are employees(aka, you pay them money). It much harder to do that when your request is
"Can you approve visas for the random people who qualify for our events? We dont' pay them or anything, they just qualify and we would like them to attend. By the way, we don't really run the events, other people we employ do. Also, we can't confirm who the people are that qualify or provide any documents or information on who they are. The only thing we can confirm is that they are really good at our game.
Thanks Blizzard We are big on the internet, trust us"
Getting a working visa is not a bit easier. See my posts above.
I know its not easier, but its POSSIBLE. Blizzard can't ask them for work visa, since they don't employee the players. They would need to work with the US government to fit the players into a current visa system or create a new one, which may not work.
What I m saying is that you need several month to get a work visa while it doesnt take that long to get a tourist/ visiting visa. Thats why in my eyes working visa wouldnt make sense even if they were employed.
On July 26 2013 01:12 jinorazi wrote: I bet riot has a huge grin
Uh huh.
I love that no matter what happens, its always turns into "I bet this other game is laughing now". Like the NFL is laughing at all the MLB stars being dragged in for drug use.
no, its because riot took care of visa issues, they saw things like this coming. nothing to do with game vs game, i guess i should have made it clear but i assumed many knew of that esports athlete thing already.
Its easier to do that when the players in your league are employees(aka, you pay them money). It much harder to do that when your request is
"Can you approve visas for the random people who qualify for our events? We dont' pay them or anything, they just qualify and we would like them to attend. By the way, we don't really run the events, other people we employ do. Also, we can't confirm who the people are that qualify or provide any documents or information on who they are. The only thing we can confirm is that they are really good at our game.
Thanks Blizzard We are big on the internet, trust us"
Getting a working visa is not a bit easier. See my posts above.
I know its not easier, but its POSSIBLE. Blizzard can't ask them for work visa, since they don't employee the players. They would need to work with the US government to fit the players into a current visa system or create a new one, which may not work.
What I m saying is that you need several month to get a work visa while it doesnt take that long to get a tourist/ visiting visa. Thats why in my eyes working visa wouldnt make sense even if they were employed.
I am addressing the dumb comments where people are saying "Riot did this, why can't Blizzard. Such a joke, disgusting." Of couse, these are the same people who don't even understand what a visa is or that there is more than one type.
Well if Jim and Macsed cant make it shouldnt they at least replace them? 3 player brackets suck, and HerO and Suppy are fan favorites and had the best map scores out of all the players that didnt get into the ro16
On July 26 2013 01:12 jinorazi wrote: I bet riot has a huge grin
Uh huh.
I love that no matter what happens, its always turns into "I bet this other game is laughing now". Like the NFL is laughing at all the MLB stars being dragged in for drug use.
no, its because riot took care of visa issues, they saw things like this coming. nothing to do with game vs game, i guess i should have made it clear but i assumed many knew of that esports athlete thing already.
Its easier to do that when the players in your league are employees(aka, you pay them money). It much harder to do that when your request is
"Can you approve visas for the random people who qualify for our events? We dont' pay them or anything, they just qualify and we would like them to attend. By the way, we don't really run the events, other people we employ do. Also, we can't confirm who the people are that qualify or provide any documents or information on who they are. The only thing we can confirm is that they are really good at our game.
Thanks Blizzard We are big on the internet, trust us"
Getting a working visa is not a bit easier. See my posts above.
I know its not easier, but its POSSIBLE. Blizzard can't ask them for work visa, since they don't employee the players. They would need to work with the US government to fit the players into a current visa system or create a new one, which may not work.
What I m saying is that you need several month to get a work visa while it doesnt take that long to get a tourist/ visiting visa. Thats why in my eyes working visa wouldnt make sense even if they were employed.
I am addressing the dumb comments where people are saying "Riot did this, why can't Blizzard. Such a joke, disgusting." Of couse, these are the same people who don't even understand what a visa is or that there is more than one type.
Okay, sounds reasonable. You may continue with your noble quest.
On July 26 2013 02:54 ShadowBrood wrote: Well if Jim and Macsed cant make it shouldnt they at least replace them? 3 player brackets suck, and HerO and Suppy are fan favorites and had the best map scores out of all the players that didnt get into the ro16
I think it would be pretty unfair to give them a second chance with the number of WCS points on the line. It may suck to have 3 person groups but it's still more fair
They definitely have taken this into consideration early on. Chinese esport player failing to get US/EU visa is such a familiar story to all Chinese esport players. There have been many many cases like this in BW, WC3, etc (The situation is actually getting better though). They still participated in WCS NA in the first place because they are willing to take the risk and want to give a shot, and it's much better than not even trying.
Why they don't lobby with the US Government like Riot does? LoL players had P1 Visa. SC2 players? Go figure.
We all know that Blizzard is screwing the scene. BW became in the monster it once was because of the korean scene and KeSPA in particular, not because of Blizzard's actions.
These VISA issues are a direct consequence of Blizzard's negligence. Same as the TI3 and WCS scheduling issues.
On July 26 2013 03:26 Apoteosis wrote: This is directly Blizzard's fault.
Why they don't lobby with the US Government like Riot does? LoL players had P1 Visa. SC2 players? Go figure.
We all know that Blizzard is screwing the scene. BW became in the monster it once was because of the korean scene and KeSPA in particular, not because of Blizzard's actions.
These VISA issues are a direct consequence of Blizzard's negligence. Same as the TI3 and WCS scheduling issues.
You can't get a P1 visa for people you don't employee. Blizzard does not pay the players in WCS, so they can't get those visas. This has been addressed previously in the thread like five times.
On July 26 2013 03:26 Apoteosis wrote: This is directly Blizzard's fault.
Why they don't lobby with the US Government like Riot does? LoL players had P1 Visa. SC2 players? Go figure.
We all know that Blizzard is screwing the scene. BW became in the monster it once was because of the korean scene and KeSPA in particular, not because of Blizzard's actions.
These VISA issues are a direct consequence of Blizzard's negligence. Same as the TI3 and WCS scheduling issues.
You can't get a P1 visa for people you don't employee. Blizzard does not pay the players in WCS, so they can't get those visas. This has been addressed previously in the thread like five times.
dont the teams petition for the P1 visa, not related to blizzard? only thing blizzard needs to do is help these players and the game get "internationally recognized" so they can get a p1 visa.
On July 26 2013 03:26 Apoteosis wrote: This is directly Blizzard's fault.
Why they don't lobby with the US Government like Riot does? LoL players had P1 Visa. SC2 players? Go figure.
We all know that Blizzard is screwing the scene. BW became in the monster it once was because of the korean scene and KeSPA in particular, not because of Blizzard's actions.
These VISA issues are a direct consequence of Blizzard's negligence. Same as the TI3 and WCS scheduling issues.
You can't get a P1 visa for people you don't employee. Blizzard does not pay the players in WCS, so they can't get those visas. This has been addressed previously in the thread like five times.
Lobby does wonders...
No it doesn't, Riot paid a lot of money to sponsor those visa and likely has to do a ton of leg work to get their players visas when they need them(providing documents). Blizzard would be asking for Visas for players they have ZERO information on and no documents or other evidence as to who they were. It is not an easy process and they dont just hand out Visas because a big company like Blizzard asks.
Here is a list of things you need to provide for PI visa:
Supporting Documents The Form I-129 must include the following documents:
A written consultation from an appropriate labor organization A copy of the contract with a major U.S. sports league or team or a contract in an individual sport commensurate with international recognition in the sport, if such contracts are normally utilized in the sport An explanation of the event and itinerary
Documentation of at least two of the following: Evidence of having participated to a significant extent in a prior season with a major United States sports league Evidence of having participated to a significant extent in international competition with a national team Evidence of having participated to a significant extent in a prior season for a U.S. college or university in intercollegiate competition A written statement from an official of a major U.S. sports league or an official of the governing body of the sport which details how you or your team is internationally recognized A written statement from a member of the sports media or a recognized expert in the sport which details how you or your team is internationally recognized Evidence that you or your team is ranked, if the sport has international rankings Evidence that you or your team has received a significant honor or award in the sport
That is a lot of stuff that simply does not exist, including the contract with a major sports league.
Note that this is not 100% - iG's coach recently posted that IEM is meeting with the coach/players to discuss the situation and see if anything can be done. Also note that in IEM's official release they failed to mention that the ref gave the option of playing the match the next day (~ to other players).
With regards to the visa, if Blizzard gets their shit together and contacts the US embassy immediately there's still hope that both players will get it.
On July 26 2013 03:33 jinorazi wrote: dont the teams petition for the P1 visa, not related to blizzard? only thing blizzard needs to do is help these players and the game get "internationally recognized" so they can get a p1 visa.
iG has no US presence. P1 is only for US based teams or teams that have a US presence.
On July 26 2013 03:34 Glon wrote: Note that this is not 100% - iG's coach recently posted that IEM is meeting with the coach/players to discuss the situation and see if anything can be done. Also note that in IEM's official release they failed to mention that the ref gave the option of playing the match the next day (~ to other players).
With regards to the visa, if Blizzard gets their shit together and contacts the US embassy immediately there's still hope that both players will get it.
We'll see what comes in the next few days.
USCIS is like a 5,000 pound elephant. Blizzard is like a gnat, if that.
Blizzard doesnt get to go in to the embassy and say "hey, USCIS, stop following the law, because this dude wants to play video games in 'merica."
On July 26 2013 03:34 Glon wrote: Note that this is not 100% - iG's coach recently posted that IEM is meeting with the coach/players to discuss the situation and see if anything can be done. Also note that in IEM's official release they failed to mention that the ref gave the option of playing the match the next day (~ to other players).
With regards to the visa, if Blizzard gets their shit together and contacts the US embassy immediately there's still hope that both players will get it.
On July 26 2013 03:26 Apoteosis wrote: This is directly Blizzard's fault.
Why they don't lobby with the US Government like Riot does? LoL players had P1 Visa. SC2 players? Go figure.
We all know that Blizzard is screwing the scene. BW became in the monster it once was because of the korean scene and KeSPA in particular, not because of Blizzard's actions.
These VISA issues are a direct consequence of Blizzard's negligence. Same as the TI3 and WCS scheduling issues.
On July 26 2013 03:26 Apoteosis wrote: This is directly Blizzard's fault.
Why they don't lobby with the US Government like Riot does? LoL players had P1 Visa. SC2 players? Go figure.
We all know that Blizzard is screwing the scene. BW became in the monster it once was because of the korean scene and KeSPA in particular, not because of Blizzard's actions.
These VISA issues are a direct consequence of Blizzard's negligence. Same as the TI3 and WCS scheduling issues.
On July 26 2013 03:34 Glon wrote: Note that this is not 100% - iG's coach recently posted that IEM is meeting with the coach/players to discuss the situation and see if anything can be done. Also note that in IEM's official release they failed to mention that the ref gave the option of playing the match the next day (~ to other players).
With regards to the visa, if Blizzard gets their shit together and contacts the US embassy immediately there's still hope that both players will get it.
We'll see what comes in the next few days.
USCIS is like a 5,000 pound elephant. Blizzard is like a gnat, if that.
Blizzard doesnt get to go in to the embassy and say "hey, USCIS, stop following the law, because this dude wants to play video games in 'merica."
this is the weirdest thread.
Yeah, for some reason people think that making SC2 and WoW somehow gives Blizzard special powers over the US government and USCIS. Or that they can somehow make up a new "WCS Visa" that players could use.
On July 26 2013 03:33 jinorazi wrote: dont the teams petition for the P1 visa, not related to blizzard? only thing blizzard needs to do is help these players and the game get "internationally recognized" so they can get a p1 visa.
iG has no US presence. P1 is only for US based teams or teams that have a US presence.
i see so the ones petitioning, iG, needs to be based in US or something so that they can get their people to come over.
just out of curiosity, would forming a group such as eSF (bunch of teams organized as single entity, based in US and internationally) help in creating these petitions?
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
Is there anyone who can suggest this to the IEM admins? It's pretty reasonable he should get that chance to at least play the lower bracket...but he should be able to play both since three group games can be played before he has to play his group anyway...
They already made the decision, they can't change it now as it would be totally unfair to the qualifying players.
Unless someone popular stamps their feet takes it to twitter and threatens a boycott.
At this point, I think the only possibility is if MC publicly (and to the IEM officials) says that he wants to play the last qualification match against Jim. Then maybe, just maybe, they'd be willing to play that match, which would push their schedule back even further (since they already have to play a postponed match from yesterday).
On July 26 2013 03:26 Apoteosis wrote: This is directly Blizzard's fault.
Why they don't lobby with the US Government like Riot does? LoL players had P1 Visa. SC2 players? Go figure.
We all know that Blizzard is screwing the scene. BW became in the monster it once was because of the korean scene and KeSPA in particular, not because of Blizzard's actions.
These VISA issues are a direct consequence of Blizzard's negligence. Same as the TI3 and WCS scheduling issues.
You can't get a P1 visa for people you don't employee. Blizzard does not pay the players in WCS, so they can't get those visas. This has been addressed previously in the thread like five times.
Does Riot pay the LCS players? I think the reason people are so up in arms over calling for Blizzard to do more is because of the recent news that LCS players were granted similar status to pro athletes for the purposes of visas.
On July 26 2013 03:33 jinorazi wrote: dont the teams petition for the P1 visa, not related to blizzard? only thing blizzard needs to do is help these players and the game get "internationally recognized" so they can get a p1 visa.
iG has no US presence. P1 is only for US based teams or teams that have a US presence.
i see so the ones petitioning, iG, needs to be based in US or something so that they can get their people to come over.
just out of curiosity, would forming a group such as eSF (bunch of teams organized in single entity, based in US and internationally) help in creating these petitions?
No, because you still need a contract with a major sports league, which Blizzard would need to work with the government to recognize. Then they would need a contract with that league and contracts require that people get paid some amount of money.
On July 26 2013 03:26 Apoteosis wrote: This is directly Blizzard's fault.
Why they don't lobby with the US Government like Riot does? LoL players had P1 Visa. SC2 players? Go figure.
We all know that Blizzard is screwing the scene. BW became in the monster it once was because of the korean scene and KeSPA in particular, not because of Blizzard's actions.
These VISA issues are a direct consequence of Blizzard's negligence. Same as the TI3 and WCS scheduling issues.
You can't get a P1 visa for people you don't employee. Blizzard does not pay the players in WCS, so they can't get those visas. This has been addressed previously in the thread like five times.
Does Riot pay the LCS players? I think the reason people are so up in arms over calling for Blizzard to do more is because of the recent news that LCS players were granted similar status to pro athletes for the purposes of visas.
On July 26 2013 03:26 Apoteosis wrote: This is directly Blizzard's fault.
Why they don't lobby with the US Government like Riot does? LoL players had P1 Visa. SC2 players? Go figure.
We all know that Blizzard is screwing the scene. BW became in the monster it once was because of the korean scene and KeSPA in particular, not because of Blizzard's actions.
These VISA issues are a direct consequence of Blizzard's negligence. Same as the TI3 and WCS scheduling issues.
Blizzard lets the scene do their own thing: OMG Blizard, you should get involved! Blizzard gets involved: OMG Blizard, before you messed up everything it was fine! Blizzard doesn't do everything: OMG Blizzard it's all your fault!
This is so weird. Normally the US government gets blamed for all kinds of stuff they did or didnt do which was or wasnt their fault. In this situation it would be reasonnable to critizise them for the ridiculous visa process yet people blame IG or Blizzard. Dont hate the player, hate the game. (No bandwagons please)
On July 26 2013 03:26 Apoteosis wrote: This is directly Blizzard's fault.
Why they don't lobby with the US Government like Riot does? LoL players had P1 Visa. SC2 players? Go figure.
We all know that Blizzard is screwing the scene. BW became in the monster it once was because of the korean scene and KeSPA in particular, not because of Blizzard's actions.
These VISA issues are a direct consequence of Blizzard's negligence. Same as the TI3 and WCS scheduling issues.
You can't get a P1 visa for people you don't employee. Blizzard does not pay the players in WCS, so they can't get those visas. This has been addressed previously in the thread like five times.
Does Riot pay the LCS players? I think the reason people are so up in arms over calling for Blizzard to do more is because of the recent news that LCS players were granted similar status to pro athletes for the purposes of visas.
Yes LCS players are paid a salary/stipend from Riot.
Anyways, sorry to hear this about Jim. He's such a nice guy and works really really hard. Hope something can be worked out!
On July 26 2013 03:26 Apoteosis wrote: This is directly Blizzard's fault.
Why they don't lobby with the US Government like Riot does? LoL players had P1 Visa. SC2 players? Go figure.
We all know that Blizzard is screwing the scene. BW became in the monster it once was because of the korean scene and KeSPA in particular, not because of Blizzard's actions.
These VISA issues are a direct consequence of Blizzard's negligence. Same as the TI3 and WCS scheduling issues.
Blizzard lets the scene do their own thing: OMG Blizard, you should get involved! Blizzard gets involved: OMG Blizard, before you messed up everything it was fine! Blizzard doesn't do everything: OMG Blizzard it's all your fault!
On July 26 2013 03:26 Apoteosis wrote: This is directly Blizzard's fault.
Why they don't lobby with the US Government like Riot does? LoL players had P1 Visa. SC2 players? Go figure.
We all know that Blizzard is screwing the scene. BW became in the monster it once was because of the korean scene and KeSPA in particular, not because of Blizzard's actions.
These VISA issues are a direct consequence of Blizzard's negligence. Same as the TI3 and WCS scheduling issues.
Blizzard lets the scene do their own thing: OMG Blizard, you should get involved! Blizzard gets involved: OMG Blizard, before you messed up everything it was fine! Blizzard doesn't do everything: OMG Blizzard it's all your fault for not doing x and y!
did you intentionally quote your post immediately after for emphasis? because i find that hilarious. =)
On July 26 2013 03:26 Apoteosis wrote: This is directly Blizzard's fault.
Why they don't lobby with the US Government like Riot does? LoL players had P1 Visa. SC2 players? Go figure.
We all know that Blizzard is screwing the scene. BW became in the monster it once was because of the korean scene and KeSPA in particular, not because of Blizzard's actions.
These VISA issues are a direct consequence of Blizzard's negligence. Same as the TI3 and WCS scheduling issues.
You can't get a P1 visa for people you don't employee. Blizzard does not pay the players in WCS, so they can't get those visas. This has been addressed previously in the thread like five times.
Does Riot pay the LCS players? I think the reason people are so up in arms over calling for Blizzard to do more is because of the recent news that LCS players were granted similar status to pro athletes for the purposes of visas.
Yes LCS players are paid a salary/stipend from Riot.
Anyways, sorry to hear this about Jim. He's such a nice guy and works really really hard. Hope something can be worked out!
Yea it is really frustrating. Let us hope that next time will be a better organization.
Kind of silly that they raised a fuss about being let into WCS AM but then couldn't get their visas straightened out. I remember back when everyone was pillaging MLG for not bending over backwards for the Chinese players (oh the poor Chinese players), I was thinking that they probably wouldn't even be able to get visas. I find it hard to believe there's no fault on iG for this disqualification and visa failure.
On July 26 2013 04:18 Doodsmack wrote: Kind of silly that they raised a fuss about being let into WCS AM but then couldn't get their visas straightened out. I remember back when everyone was pillaging MLG for not bending over backwards for the Chinese players (oh the poor Chinese players), I was thinking that they probably wouldn't even be able to get visas. I find it hard to believe there's no fault on iG for this disqualification and visa failure.
They "might" did something that's not optimal, who knows. But getting working visa in US for Chinese is more like a case of eeny, meeny, miny, moe.
Also how can you both "think that they probably wouldn't even be able to get visas" and "find it hard to believe there's no fault on iG for this disqualification and visa failure"? So were you expecting them to get visa or not?
On July 26 2013 04:27 UnKooL wrote: Wait why would you try a go work on your visa stuff mid tournament?
Because 1: You can only apply for visa after you get invited (qualify + receive physical invitation from Blizzard), AND book your flight (yes, if you get rejected you are screwed). 2: Once you apply embassy will pick a time out of a hat for you to show up for interview, but you still have to wait in line for hours even with appointment.
It's a very fun and exciting system, you should try it sometime...
On July 26 2013 01:00 docvoc wrote: It's because U.S. visas tend to be exploited for other matters. It's very hard because people do things with the visa to attempt to stay in the U.S., that makes our immigration policies fairly rigid, and visas harder to get.
That is not 'rigid', that is capricious. there is no rules or policies, just the mood of the guy the review the application. randomly making it hard for people that have a legitimate reason to be in and out on a given schdule to get timely paper is doing nothing to stop visa abuse and overstay... people that want to overstay do not care _when_ they get in.
But of course now that congress has passed law to make Visa a profitable business, that is not going to change anytime soon... they created incentive to reject application... to make you pay again to re-apply... with an extra non-refundable fee for so-called 'expedited processing'....
Anyway, the only viable solution as mentioned earlier is to avoid the US altogether. let's have the WCS AM somewhere else in the continent... Canada would be a fine choice.
On July 26 2013 03:26 Apoteosis wrote: This is directly Blizzard's fault.
Why they don't lobby with the US Government like Riot does? LoL players had P1 Visa. SC2 players? Go figure.
We all know that Blizzard is screwing the scene. BW became in the monster it once was because of the korean scene and KeSPA in particular, not because of Blizzard's actions.
These VISA issues are a direct consequence of Blizzard's negligence. Same as the TI3 and WCS scheduling issues.
Blizzard lets the scene do their own thing: OMG Blizard, you should get involved! Blizzard gets involved: OMG Blizard, before you messed up everything it was fine! Blizzard doesn't do everything: OMG Blizzard it's all your fault for not doing x and y!
did you intentionally quote your post immediately after for emphasis? because i find that hilarious. =)
On July 26 2013 03:26 Apoteosis wrote: This is directly Blizzard's fault.
Why they don't lobby with the US Government like Riot does? LoL players had P1 Visa. SC2 players? Go figure.
We all know that Blizzard is screwing the scene. BW became in the monster it once was because of the korean scene and KeSPA in particular, not because of Blizzard's actions.
These VISA issues are a direct consequence of Blizzard's negligence. Same as the TI3 and WCS scheduling issues.
Blizzard lets the scene do their own thing: OMG Blizard, you should get involved! Blizzard gets involved: OMG Blizard, before you messed up everything it was fine! Blizzard doesn't do everything: OMG Blizzard it's all your fault for not doing x and y!
did you intentionally quote your post immediately after for emphasis? because i find that hilarious. =)
Nah, was a double post i just found out
well, that isnt nearly as funny. =) someone apparently wasnt amused at all since they reported you. haha.
This is just another reason why the wcs needs to be region locked. I feel bad but at the same time thats what happens when you don't plan ahead. It said they tried getting the visa just one month ago. America isn't the easiest country to gain access too, need more than one month of time. Especially when your from a communist country...
On July 26 2013 04:27 UnKooL wrote: Wait why would you try a go work on your visa stuff mid tournament?
Wait why are you so ignorant after this has been explained many times earlier in the thread
An issue where I think iem can be blamed for is if Jim's early matches were delayed. In that case he isn't responsible for having to leave for the appointment and iem should let him play.
On July 26 2013 05:00 rshawer wrote: Here is the problem, Blizzard doesn't do anything when we need them to. When they do something its only when we don't need them to do it.
Here is another problem, people don't read the thread or understand that Blizzard can't do anythign to make the USCIS issue Visas
USCIS is like a 5,000 pound elephant. Blizzard is like a gnat, if that.
Blizzard doesnt get to go in to the embassy and say "hey, USCIS, stop following the law, because this dude wants to play video games in 'merica."
this is the weirdest thread.
of course they can't say 'stop the following' law... since there is no law to stop. there is no law that stipulate that "capricious and random decision shall be made wrt the application of chinese e-sport athlete."
And guess what, as was said before, with enough money and the right people to give it too, you'd get anything from the USCIS. Why do you thing so many people tout the merit of 'lobbying'... as if institutionalized corruption was something to be proud about....
USCIS is like a 5,000 pound elephant. Blizzard is like a gnat, if that.
Blizzard doesnt get to go in to the embassy and say "hey, USCIS, stop following the law, because this dude wants to play video games in 'merica."
this is the weirdest thread.
of course they can't say 'stop the following' law... since there is no law to stop. there is no law that stipulate that "capricious and random decision shall be made wrt the application of chinese e-sport athlete."
And guess what, as was said before, with enough money and the right people to give it too, you'd get anything from the USCIS. Why do you thing so many people tout the merit of 'lobbying'... as if institutionalized corruption was something to be proud about....
USCIS is like a 5,000 pound elephant. Blizzard is like a gnat, if that.
Blizzard doesnt get to go in to the embassy and say "hey, USCIS, stop following the law, because this dude wants to play video games in 'merica."
this is the weirdest thread.
of course they can't say 'stop the following' law... since there is no law to stop. there is no law that stipulate that "capricious and random decision shall be made wrt the application of chinese e-sport athlete."
And guess what, as was said before, with enough money and the right people to give it too, you'd get anything from the USCIS. Why do you thing so many people tout the merit of 'lobbying'... as if institutionalized corruption was something to be proud about....
So what you are saying is that Blizzard should bribe them? I don't think you are fully grasping what people are talking about here.
Pretty sad considering he can't participate in WCS season 2 and he lost his IEM spot when he went to try and fix that :/ These visa issues are a pain to deal with. Maybe SCII will be recognized as a sport like LoL where visas will be easier to obtain.
On July 26 2013 03:42 aksfjh wrote: Situations like this really make me want region locks, or at least a requirement on physical presence in the region.
Like you did not want that _before_ already ? Situation like this make me want that WCS AM be held in Canada.
USCIS is like a 5,000 pound elephant. Blizzard is like a gnat, if that.
Blizzard doesnt get to go in to the embassy and say "hey, USCIS, stop following the law, because this dude wants to play video games in 'merica."
this is the weirdest thread.
of course they can't say 'stop the following' law... since there is no law to stop. there is no law that stipulate that "capricious and random decision shall be made wrt the application of chinese e-sport athlete."
And guess what, as was said before, with enough money and the right people to give it too, you'd get anything from the USCIS. Why do you thing so many people tout the merit of 'lobbying'... as if institutionalized corruption was something to be proud about....
oh my. there are so many false assumptions and blatant misstatements that i am not sure its worth responding to.
also, for people bitching about the U.S.'s system, the Chinese system aint so great as well. we did a southeast asia backbacking trip and wanted to go to china from northern vietnam--you know the trains and buses that go across the border. nope. not allowed. you have to buy a plane ticket to go in to the country before you can get the visa.
oh, like lonely planet? nope. china confiscates lonely planet travel books. why? because lonely planet has the audacity to recognize taiwan.
On July 26 2013 05:28 dAPhREAk wrote: also, for people bitching about the U.S.'s system, the Chinese system aint so great as well. we did a southeast asia backbacking trip and wanted to go to china from northern vietnam--you know the trains and buses that go across the border. nope. not allowed. you have to buy a plane ticket to go in to the country before you can get the visa.
oh, like lonely planet? nope. china confiscates lonely planet travel books. why? because lonely planet has the audacity to recognize taiwan.
Somehow that will be blamed on Blizzard. Someone is working on the post right now.
On July 26 2013 04:55 skatblast wrote: This is just another reason why the wcs needs to be region locked. I feel bad but at the same time thats what happens when you don't plan ahead. It said they tried getting the visa just one month ago. America isn't the easiest country to gain access too, need more than one month of time. Especially when your from a communist country...
Did you even bother to read at least _some_ of this thread ? you CANNOT GET an appointment BEFORE you 1/ Qualify 2/ get an invite letter from the organizer (that is why 1/ is 1/), 3/ have your plane ticket (and you get screwed once they reject your application) 4/ have paid $160 for the B-visa appointment (non refundable) -- which is a _lot_ btw: see http://www.worldsalaries.org/china.shtml
Especially when your from a communist country...
What does has to do with anything ? beside China is more capitalistic than the US these days, which is incidentally why the US are so upset... they are no so fond at being beaten at their own game....
On July 26 2013 04:55 skatblast wrote: This is just another reason why the wcs needs to be region locked. I feel bad but at the same time thats what happens when you don't plan ahead. It said they tried getting the visa just one month ago. America isn't the easiest country to gain access too, need more than one month of time. Especially when your from a communist country...
Did you even bother to read at least _some_ of this thread ? you CANNOT GET an appointment BEFORE you 1/ Qualify 2/ get an invite letter from the organizer (that is why 1/ is 1/), 3/ have your plane ticket (and you get screwed once they reject your application) 4/ have paid $160 for the B-visa appointment (non refundable) -- which is a _lot_ btw: see http://www.worldsalaries.org/china.shtml
What does has to do with anything ? beside China is more capitalistic than the US these days, which is incidentally why the US are so upset... they are no so fond at being beaten at their own game....
Yes, the US denied Jim's visa request because they are mad at China for being better capitalists than they are. This makes perfect sense.
On July 26 2013 05:00 rshawer wrote: Here is the problem, Blizzard doesn't do anything when we need them to. When they do something its only when we don't need them to do it.
Your one of those people who immediately comes into a thread, blames Blizzard and leaves. They can't do anything about this, its a Visa issue that is out of their control entirely.
On July 25 2013 19:13 Fionn wrote: Random seventeen-year-old Chinese kid comes out of nowhere to show world class SC2 play and possibly be the first SC2 Chinese superstar that can challenge Koreans.
Somehow everything possibly that could go wrong for him goes wrong, pretty much halting the entire hype without him actually losing a match.
Sigh
Yeah I was watching him in WCS AM and he was seriously amazing, yet very few people seemed to know about him really--he'd been around before, but recently he's been emerging as a dominant player. Right now it definitely seems like he's on the cusp of getting to that next level :\ hope they can let him play it out, as wax was saying.
On July 26 2013 01:00 docvoc wrote: Anyway, the only viable solution as mentioned earlier is to avoid the US altogether. let's have the WCS AM somewhere else in the continent... Canada would be a fine choice.
NASL is the only org that has experience holding a major SC2 event in Canada, too And guess who is going to be running WCS Season 2 RO8 onwards and Season 3...? #cometoYVR
Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...
So what you are saying is that Blizzard should bribe them? I don't think you are fully grasping what people are talking about here.
Should? no... but some people says that nothing _could_ be done... other use the euphemism 'lobby'... which is indeed just a nicer word for 'bribe'. so let's call a spade a spade. and yes if you 'lobby' the right set of congressman and/or senator, you could get Jim a visa... there is absolutely no doubt about it... in fact, the person in the embassy would have magically found him perfectly suitable for entry.... no question asked.
USCIS is like a 5,000 pound elephant. Blizzard is like a gnat, if that.
Blizzard doesnt get to go in to the embassy and say "hey, USCIS, stop following the law, because this dude wants to play video games in 'merica."
this is the weirdest thread.
of course they can't say 'stop the following' law... since there is no law to stop. there is no law that stipulate that "capricious and random decision shall be made wrt the application of chinese e-sport athlete."
And guess what, as was said before, with enough money and the right people to give it too, you'd get anything from the USCIS. Why do you thing so many people tout the merit of 'lobbying'... as if institutionalized corruption was something to be proud about....
So what you are saying is that Blizzard should bribe them? I don't think you are fully grasping what people are talking about here.
You can get an immigrant visa by investing $500k in some destitute PoS place in the middle of nowhere. I believe it's double that if you invest somewhere good.
I just find these people funny since they don't realize that issuing visas is mostly an economic decision.
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote: Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...
I wouldn't see why they couldn't
I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports
I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.
On July 26 2013 06:14 andrewlt wrote: You can get an immigrant visa by investing $500k in some destitute PoS place in the middle of nowhere. I believe it's double that if you invest somewhere good.
I just find these people funny since they don't realize that issuing visas is mostly an economic decision.
On July 26 2013 05:00 rshawer wrote: Here is the problem, Blizzard doesn't do anything when we need them to. When they do something its only when we don't need them to do it.
Your one of those people who immediately comes into a thread, blames Blizzard and leaves. They can't do anything about this, its a Visa issue that is out of their control entirely.
No, it is something they can completely control.
Riot got their players P-1 'Athlete' Visas for the sake of travelling for tournaments
What does has to do with anything ? beside China is more capitalistic than the US these days, which is incidentally why the US are so upset... they are no so fond at being beaten at their own game....
People in the usa arnt fond of communist I dont really need to much of an explanation doesn't matter how capitalistic they are.
What does has to do with anything ? beside China is more capitalistic than the US these days, which is incidentally why the US are so upset... they are no so fond at being beaten at their own game....
People in the usa arnt fond of communist I dont really need to much of an explanation doesn't matter how capitalistic they are.
nothing to be proud of....(only the ignorant supports this fondness)
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote: Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...
I wouldn't see why they couldn't
I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports
I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.
Have you seen the difference between what Riot does for LoL and what Blizzard does for SC2? Fat chance.
On July 26 2013 05:00 rshawer wrote: Here is the problem, Blizzard doesn't do anything when we need them to. When they do something its only when we don't need them to do it.
hmm i notice my room is getting messy...i should cle-....nevermind! goddamnit Blizzard clean my room! good for nothing.
On July 26 2013 01:12 jinorazi wrote: I bet riot has a huge grin
Uh huh.
I love that no matter what happens, its always turns into "I bet this other game is laughing now". Like the NFL is laughing at all the MLB stars being dragged in for drug use.
no, its because riot took care of visa issues, they saw things like this coming. nothing to do with game vs game, i guess i should have made it clear but i assumed many knew of that esports athlete thing already.
Its easier to do that when the players in your league are employees(aka, you pay them money). It much harder to do that when your request is
"Can you approve visas for the random people who qualify for our events? We dont' pay them or anything, they just qualify and we would like them to attend. By the way, we don't really run the events, other people we employ do. Also, we can't confirm who the people are that qualify or provide any documents or information on who they are. The only thing we can confirm is that they are really good at our game.
Thanks Blizzard We are big on the internet, trust us"
Getting a working visa is not a bit easier. See my posts above.
I know its not easier, but its POSSIBLE. Blizzard can't ask them for work visa, since they don't employee the players. They would need to work with the US government to fit the players into a current visa system or create a new one, which may not work.
What I m saying is that you need several month to get a work visa while it doesnt take that long to get a tourist/ visiting visa. Thats why in my eyes working visa wouldnt make sense even if they were employed.
I am addressing the dumb comments where people are saying "Riot did this, why can't Blizzard. Such a joke, disgusting." Of couse, these are the same people who don't even understand what a visa is or that there is more than one type.
Okay, sounds reasonable. You may continue with your noble quest.
It's always a losing cause but if we can get through to one or two people then I say job well done. Someone's got to do it anyway. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Oh the amount of times I used that one in the last month.
On July 26 2013 03:26 Apoteosis wrote: This is directly Blizzard's fault.
Why they don't lobby with the US Government like Riot does? LoL players had P1 Visa. SC2 players? Go figure.
We all know that Blizzard is screwing the scene. BW became in the monster it once was because of the korean scene and KeSPA in particular, not because of Blizzard's actions.
These VISA issues are a direct consequence of Blizzard's negligence. Same as the TI3 and WCS scheduling issues.
Blizzard lets the scene do their own thing: OMG Blizard, you should get involved! Blizzard gets involved: OMG Blizard, before you messed up everything it was fine! Blizzard doesn't do everything: OMG Blizzard it's all your fault for not doing x and y!
did you intentionally quote your post immediately after for emphasis? because i find that hilarious. =)
Nah, was a double post i just found out
well, that isnt nearly as funny. =) someone apparently wasnt amused at all since they reported you. haha.
Yea just saw the warning, quite funny you can get reported for accidents
On July 26 2013 03:26 Apoteosis wrote: This is directly Blizzard's fault.
Why they don't lobby with the US Government like Riot does? LoL players had P1 Visa. SC2 players? Go figure.
We all know that Blizzard is screwing the scene. BW became in the monster it once was because of the korean scene and KeSPA in particular, not because of Blizzard's actions.
These VISA issues are a direct consequence of Blizzard's negligence. Same as the TI3 and WCS scheduling issues.
Blizzard lets the scene do their own thing: OMG Blizard, you should get involved! Blizzard gets involved: OMG Blizard, before you messed up everything it was fine! Blizzard doesn't do everything: OMG Blizzard it's all your fault!
League of Legends players are considered athletes in the united states after Riot lobbied hard to get it passed, now LoL players can play with athletes visa in the united states.. What I don't understand is why Blizzard doesn't do the same? It's just sad that Riot care so much for esports than Blizzard.
On July 26 2013 07:11 SuperFanBoy wrote: League of Legends players are considered athletes in the united states after Riot lobbied hard to get it passed, now LoL players can play with athletes visa in the united states.. What I don't understand is why Blizzard doesn't do the same? It's just sad that Riot care so much for esports than Blizzard.
On July 25 2013 22:44 dantawangzi wrote: I dont get it, all the dota 2 players from China get us visa like no problem, why it is so hard for a sc2 player??
Its a time thing. If you know 4 months in advance that you're going to TI3 its not that hard to get a visa. If you know two weeks in advance that you're going to WCS it suddenly becomes very hard to get a visa.
On July 25 2013 22:51 Jampackedeon wrote: Didn't I just read that the US now recognizes Esports as a valid reason to give visas (thanks to some lobbying by LoL apparently).
Does that not also apply to SC2 players?
It has nothing to do with Jim and Macsed's situation. Riot's lobying is related to P1 visas, which allows the players to reside in the US long term (3-5 years) and to be salaried. More than likely Jim and Macsed tried to get a B1 visa, which is the easiest US visa to get (along with the B2 visa) and would be sufficient to come to the US and compete for a tournament that offers prize money.
Reportedly, iG's coach said this: "I just got off the phone with IEM, because it's hard to hear in the phone, IEM has requested us to show up tomorrow morning at 8am to continue discuss this issue." That's 1.5 hours from the time of this post... :S I dunno if IEM is seriously considering any changes, though.
On July 26 2013 05:00 rshawer wrote: Here is the problem, Blizzard doesn't do anything when we need them to. When they do something its only when we don't need them to do it.
Your one of those people who immediately comes into a thread, blames Blizzard and leaves. They can't do anything about this, its a Visa issue that is out of their control entirely.
No, it is something they can completely control.
Riot got their players P-1 'Athlete' Visas for the sake of travelling for tournaments
I don't see why Blizzard can't do it.
Riot got their Athlete classifications because their viewership for major tournaments is comparable to some cable television numbers, and their prize pool for the finals is $8million.
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote: Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...
I wouldn't see why they couldn't
I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports
I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.
Riot has a set number of players per season, with a season being a set time out of the year. Players are not added/subtracted nearly as often as blizzard's WCS system does. Riot also region locks their stuff, so you don't have people from China in their NA tournament. It's a totally separate situation. Because Riot also employs their players (they're paid a salary and I believe a housing stipend?) they're employees of Riot. It's an entirely different situation.
No its more likely, man, i got a messy room, oh wait here comes blizzard coming with a flamethrower to torch the entire house down, you can't have a messy room without a house right?
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote: Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...
I wouldn't see why they couldn't
I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports
I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.
Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS. Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter. Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.
Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so. Nothing to hope from blizzard.
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote: Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...
I wouldn't see why they couldn't
I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports
I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.
Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS. Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter. Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.
Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so. Nothing to hope from blizzard.
Love it when people comment on thing with the sole purpose of blaming Blizzard. Not matter how little they know, it will always be LoL or Dota vs Blizzard and how it's all blizzards fault.
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote: Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...
I wouldn't see why they couldn't
I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports
I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.
Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS. Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter. Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.
Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so. Nothing to hope from blizzard.
On July 26 2013 08:27 Iodem wrote: Blizzard just keeps giving me more and more reasons not to watch WCS Korea: Code B.
............And this is why I've stopped going to the SC2 boards.
US make it very dificult to get Visa in some countries. I remeber in Russia in 1997 one had to stay in line for 12 hours like 3-5 days in a row in order to apply for US visa.
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote: Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...
I wouldn't see why they couldn't
I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports
I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.
Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS. Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter. Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.
Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so. Nothing to hope from blizzard.
On July 26 2013 08:27 Iodem wrote: Blizzard just keeps giving me more and more reasons not to watch WCS Korea: Code B.
............And this is why I've stopped going to the SC2 boards.
Yeah, I think the general discussion are the balance/blizzard whine sections of the community. No matter what, it's alway a balance to blizzard problem.
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote: Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...
I wouldn't see why they couldn't
I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports
I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.
Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS. Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter. Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.
Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so. Nothing to hope from blizzard.
On July 26 2013 08:27 Iodem wrote: Blizzard just keeps giving me more and more reasons not to watch WCS Korea: Code B.
............And this is why I've stopped going to the SC2 boards.
Erm, what? Why?
Blizzard expresses interest but doesn't seem to put forth as much effort as other companies do into expanding their esport. We've gone for three years without LAN(except those who are willing to pay for a security squad to keep it out of the hands of pirates), and we still have lag/dropout issues in tournaments. When LoL started having crashing issues in tournaments Riot immediately came out with a LAN solution.
Also, I misspoke in my initial post. There have been a lot of elements that have made WCS America a tournament that I don't care about. Some are in blizzard's hands, while others(like this one) are not. We don't know what's going on under wraps at blizzard and if they're lobbying with the government right now or not.
But things like the fact that they let Violet compete in the Ro32 after admitting to having no way to get into America for the Ro16 just baffles me. It screws over the two people who lost to him, while others get a free ride in the Ro16. At that time, not all challenger league qualifiers had been completed, and they could've offered him a region transfer to somewhere he could actually compete.
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote: Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...
I wouldn't see why they couldn't
I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports
I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.
Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS. Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter. Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.
Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so. Nothing to hope from blizzard.
On July 26 2013 08:27 Iodem wrote: Blizzard just keeps giving me more and more reasons not to watch WCS Korea: Code B.
............And this is why I've stopped going to the SC2 boards.
Erm, what? Why?
Blizzard expresses interest but doesn't seem to put forth as much effort as other companies do into expanding their esport. We've gone for three years without LAN(except those who are willing to pay for a security squad to keep it out of the hands of pirates), and we still have lag/dropout issues in tournaments. When LoL started having crashing issues in tournaments Riot immediately came out with a LAN solution.
Also, I misspoke in my initial post. There have been a lot of elements that have made WCS America a tournament that I don't care about. Some are in blizzard's hands, while others(like this one) are not. We don't know what's going on under wraps at blizzard and if they're lobbying with the government right now or not.
Because he knows what will be here, endless complaining about things may or not be Blizzards fault. No one is happy and everyone says "we are holding them to higher standards because we care! If they did better we wouldn't whine." Because blizzard controls the USCIS...
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote: Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...
I wouldn't see why they couldn't
I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports
I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.
Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS. Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter. Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.
Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so. Nothing to hope from blizzard.
Love it when people comment on thing with the sole purpose of blaming Blizzard. Not matter how little they know, it will always be LoL or Dota vs Blizzard and how it's all blizzards fault.
And some others come and say "no, it's normal that a bigger, well established company give less support to their game than new companies jumping into it. And it's normal to extort money from the actors of your esport scene, the ones who keep your game alive. It's totally not blizzard fault if they have a shitty business plan esport wise compared to every other company implicated in it. No, definitely, it must be the evil and angry poster imagining things".
It's just facts. Riot, a smaller company with less influence can do it, can throw a lot of money to help esport and help their players get their visas. And it works for them. But blizzard is known to be very stubborn and won't change it's ways, even if the concurrent companies are doing better going another way. They'll keep trying to get a short term return from esport instead of trying to build on it long term to attract people, and for sure won't throw more efforts to help it.
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote: Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...
I wouldn't see why they couldn't
I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports
I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.
Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS. Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter. Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.
Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so. Nothing to hope from blizzard.
On July 26 2013 08:27 Iodem wrote: Blizzard just keeps giving me more and more reasons not to watch WCS Korea: Code B.
............And this is why I've stopped going to the SC2 boards.
Erm, what? Why?
Blizzard expresses interest but doesn't seem to put forth as much effort as other companies do into expanding their esport. We've gone for three years without LAN(except those who are willing to pay for a security squad to keep it out of the hands of pirates), and we still have lag/dropout issues in tournaments. When LoL started having crashing issues in tournaments Riot immediately came out with a LAN solution.
Also, I misspoke in my initial post. There have been a lot of elements that have made WCS America a tournament that I don't care about. Some are in blizzard's hands, while others(like this one) are not. We don't know what's going on under wraps at blizzard and if they're lobbying with the government right now or not.
But things like the fact that they let Violet compete in the Ro32 after admitting to having no way to get into America for the Ro16 just baffles me. It screws over the two people who lost to him, while others get a free ride in the Ro16. At that time, not all challenger league qualifiers had been completed, and they could've offered him a region transfer to somewhere he could actually compete.
Yeah...I'm not rehashing these arguments again...
I'm sick of seeing every thread turning into Blizzard bashing by people who can't read or comprehend context. I'm sick of people thinking "Riot did it" is a valid argument for anything. I'm sick of anything and everything turning into an excuse for pitchforks.
The Starcraft community, as a whole, has become toxic and pathetic, and the only way I can enjoy SC2 competition anymore is by watching and never, ever visiting any SC2 topic.
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote: Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...
I wouldn't see why they couldn't
I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports
I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.
Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS. Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter. Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.
Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so. Nothing to hope from blizzard.
Love it when people comment on thing with the sole purpose of blaming Blizzard. Not matter how little they know, it will always be LoL or Dota vs Blizzard and how it's all blizzards fault.
And some others come and say "no, it's normal that a bigger, well established company give less support to their game than new companies jumping into it. And it's normal to extort money from the actors of your esport scene, the ones who keep your game alive. It's totally not blizzard fault if they have a shitty business plan esport wise compared to every other company implicated in it. No, definitely, it must be the evil and angry poster imagining things".
It's just facts. Riot, a smaller company with less influence can do it, can throw a lot of money to help esport and help their players get their visas. And it works for them. But blizzard is known to be very stubborn and won't change it's ways, even if the concurrent companies are doing better going another way. They'll keep trying to get a short term return from esport instead of trying to build on it long term to attract people, and for sure won't throw more efforts to help it.
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote: Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...
I wouldn't see why they couldn't
I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports
I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.
Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS. Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter. Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.
Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so. Nothing to hope from blizzard.
Love it when people comment on thing with the sole purpose of blaming Blizzard. Not matter how little they know, it will always be LoL or Dota vs Blizzard and how it's all blizzards fault.
And some others come and say "no, it's normal that a bigger, well established company give less support to their game than new companies jumping into it. And it's normal to extort money from the actors of your esport scene, the ones who keep your game alive. It's totally not blizzard fault if they have a shitty business plan esport wise compared to every other company implicated in it. No, definitely, it must be the evil and angry poster imagining things".
It's just facts. Riot, a smaller company with less influence can do it, can throw a lot of money to help esport and help their players get their visas. And it works for them. But blizzard is known to be very stubborn and won't change it's ways, even if the concurrent companies are doing better going another way. They'll keep trying to get a short term return from esport instead of trying to build on it long term to attract people, and for sure won't throw more efforts to help it.
Your wrong, you can't get P1 visas unless the player has a contract with a major sports league. Unless Blizzard is willing to employ everyone who qualifies, they can't get visas of that kind. But it's not like you care, it's all about the Blizzard hate train and praising Riot, who still doesn't have replays 4 years later.
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote: Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...
I wouldn't see why they couldn't
I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports
I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.
Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS. Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter. Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.
Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so. Nothing to hope from blizzard.
Love it when people comment on thing with the sole purpose of blaming Blizzard. Not matter how little they know, it will always be LoL or Dota vs Blizzard and how it's all blizzards fault.
And some others come and say "no, it's normal that a bigger, well established company give less support to their game than new companies jumping into it. And it's normal to extort money from the actors of your esport scene, the ones who keep your game alive. It's totally not blizzard fault if they have a shitty business plan esport wise compared to every other company implicated in it. No, definitely, it must be the evil and angry poster imagining things".
It's just facts. Riot, a smaller company with less influence can do it, can throw a lot of money to help esport and help their players get their visas. And it works for them. But blizzard is known to be very stubborn and won't change it's ways, even if the concurrent companies are doing better going another way. They'll keep trying to get a short term return from esport instead of trying to build on it long term to attract people, and for sure won't throw more efforts to help it.
and, there is nothing wrong with blizzard doing any of that. they are in it for the money; they are a commercial organization after all. i am not sure anyone believes blizzard is a charitable organization.
On July 26 2013 08:49 WolfintheSheep wrote: I'm sick of people thinking "Riot did it" is a valid argument for anything.
It's on the same level of people asking "Why doesn't soccer use instant replay when determining calls when almost every other modern sport does?" How is it wrong to compare SC2 to other eSports in the same regard?
On July 26 2013 08:49 WolfintheSheep wrote: I'm sick of people thinking "Riot did it" is a valid argument for anything.
It's on the same level of people asking "Why doesn't soccer use instant replay when determining calls when almost every other modern sport does?" How is it wrong to compare SC2 to other eSports in the same regard?
No, it's on the same level as "ants lift 50 times their weight, why can't people?"
If you think "Riot did it" is remotely relevant when it comes to work visas, you are complete and utterly clueless.
On July 26 2013 08:49 WolfintheSheep wrote: I'm sick of people thinking "Riot did it" is a valid argument for anything.
It's on the same level of people asking "Why doesn't soccer use instant replay when determining calls when almost every other modern sport does?" How is it wrong to compare SC2 to other eSports in the same regard?
No, it's on the same level as "ants lift 50 times their weight, why can't people?"
If you think "Riot did it" is remotely relevant when it comes to work visas, you are complete and utterly clueless.
Like I said before, there's no proof that Blizzard isn't already trying to lobby for work visas. What I have mentioned is their stubbornness on LAN.
On July 26 2013 08:49 WolfintheSheep wrote: I'm sick of people thinking "Riot did it" is a valid argument for anything.
It's on the same level of people asking "Why doesn't soccer use instant replay when determining calls when almost every other modern sport does?" How is it wrong to compare SC2 to other eSports in the same regard?
No, it's on the same level as "ants lift 50 times their weight, why can't people?"
If you think "Riot did it" is remotely relevant when it comes to work visas, you are complete and utterly clueless.
Like I said before, there's no proof that Blizzard isn't already trying to lobby for work visas. What I have mentioned is their stubbornness on LAN.
and how is that comparison even close to mine?
No other company has LAN either. It's all online only. Yet you blame Blizzard for something everyone else does too.
On July 26 2013 08:49 WolfintheSheep wrote: I'm sick of people thinking "Riot did it" is a valid argument for anything.
It's on the same level of people asking "Why doesn't soccer use instant replay when determining calls when almost every other modern sport does?" How is it wrong to compare SC2 to other eSports in the same regard?
No, it's on the same level as "ants lift 50 times their weight, why can't people?"
If you think "Riot did it" is remotely relevant when it comes to work visas, you are complete and utterly clueless.
Like I said before, there's no proof that Blizzard isn't already trying to lobby for work visas. What I have mentioned is their stubbornness on LAN.
and how is that comparison even close to mine?
Okay, let's play a fun game!
SC2 DotA2 LoL HoN CoD World of Tanks
Which of these has official LAN support? And which of these spent millions to have a tournament in the Staples Centre and to lobby the government for athlete status?
Comparisons are fun when you make them as bad as possible!
so in Season 3 or next year, i hope Blizzard will have obatined athlete visas or alternative entertainer/performer-of-special-skillset visas for players in the WCS system in the way that Riot has done so all this poopstorm can be avoided.
Here's the deal: to get a US work visa for esports that you (largely) non-americans can't seem to understand page after page in this thread is that you have to be employed in a stable sports league. The reason this worked out for Riot after a lot of time and effort is because their LCS system is a regularly scheduled league that pays its players with clear documentation. WCS does NOT have a stable roster of salaried, consistent players and is essentially no different from regular SC2 tournaments apart from scale and some stability in the form of Challenger-Premier. Players may get a consistent reward from staying in the WCS system in the form of prizepool but they are NOT employed by Blizzard in any form like the LCS players are by Riot.
If you want Blizzard to throw more money at WCS to make it a salaried, regularly scheduled sports league like LCS then that's completely different from thinking that players can't get visas because Blizzard is evil and isn't throwing whatever weight you think it has at the US government. LCS does not make a profit for Riot and is largely for the sake of maintaining their competitive scene and attracting new players. SC2 is not free to play and if you think there is some big untapped market of players who will be attracted to it because of some sponsored competitive league you will be sorely mistaken. Sure Blizzard could run it at a loss for the sake of #ESPORTS but in no way are they obligated to.
On July 26 2013 09:49 wptlzkwjd wrote: Weird...front page says IEM Shanghai but the finals are held in U.S?
WCS AM finals, not IEM finals.
Sorry, I haven't been paying much attention to the pro SC2 scene lately but...what do the WCS AM finals have to do with IEM Shanghai?
Jim was playing in IEM Shanghai but had to leave for his visa appointment. That took a while so IEM DQ'd him. Not only that, his visa application for WCS AM was denied so he got screwed both ways.
On a sidenote: Really annoying how people seem to be unable to comprehend visa policy in the US even after it has been explained multiple times in this very thread. I always thought the ability to read was one of the basics in education <.<
On July 26 2013 09:46 haduken wrote: Haven't read the thread, but a quick one...
How come Dota chinese players can get visa easily?
Because they apply much further in advance. The applications for Jim and Macsed had to be last minute since they didn't know they'd be playing until last week, while in reality they would probably need a 3 to 4 months heads-up to be safe.
On July 26 2013 09:46 haduken wrote: Haven't read the thread, but a quick one...
How come Dota chinese players can get visa easily?
Because they apply much further in advance. The applications for Jim and Macsed had to be last minute since they didn't know they'd be playing until last week, while in reality they would probably need a 3 to 4 months heads-up to be safe.
hmmm
seems that maybe
they should have ordered the plane tickets and got the visas several months beforehand, even before they knew if they were in top 16 or not
only risk is canceling the plane ticket and getting refund, if dont make it to top 16?
Depending on airline and destination, cancellation fees can be as high as $250 Reservations must be cancelled prior to the flight departure.
basically, just order the plane tickets and get visa 1 year earlier, then if dont make it to top of 16, pay the cancel fee, and get refund on tickets
also, why does he need Blizzard invitation to get a travelers visa?
if people want to go to US for sightseeing, they dont need someone to make an invitation letter for them, they just simply apply for a non-immigrant traveler visa...
I really don't get the IEM DQ things. They already rescheduled Grubby's game but DQed Jim? My only explanation is they value Korean and European more than Chinese.
It's like the last WCS DQed incident all over again. And the event is even held in China. How ironic!
On July 26 2013 10:52 Baroninthetree wrote: I really don't get the IEM DQ things. They already rescheduled Grubby's game but DQed Jim? My only explanation is they value Korean and European more than Chinese.
It's like the last WCS DQed incident all over again. And the event is even held in China. How ironic!
Grubby's match was rescheduled because the venue they were at closed (because they're at a trade show which ended). Jim's match was postponed for as long as they could that day so he could deal with his visa issue, but he was not able to make it back in time so he was DQed.
Clearly it was foreseeable by iG and Jim that he wouldn't be able to apply for a visa until after qualifying for the Ro16. It's questionable whether he should even sign up for the tournament under these conditions. He basically took a gamble that he'd be able to play in the Ro16 and beyond.
On July 26 2013 11:03 Doodsmack wrote: Clearly it was foreseeable by iG and Jim that he wouldn't be able to apply for a visa until after qualifying for the Ro16. It's questionable whether he should even sign up for the tournament under these conditions. He basically took a gamble that he'd be able to play in the Ro16 and beyond.
why not make reservations for plane ticket and apply for visa 8 months in advance?
if you dont make it into round of 16, then just cancel the plane ticket?
Wow, if the coach's statement is true, this is pretty much as dumb as it gets. The reason he was late for his matches is because someone else was late for their matches earlier in the day, but they just keep him waiting for 2 hours then DQ him after he is 30 minutes late? Like, wat.
On July 26 2013 10:52 Baroninthetree wrote: I really don't get the IEM DQ things. They already rescheduled Grubby's game but DQed Jim? My only explanation is they value Korean and European more than Chinese.
It's like the last WCS DQed incident all over again. And the event is even held in China. How ironic!
Grubby's match was rescheduled because the venue they were at closed (because they're at a trade show which ended). Jim's match was postponed for as long as they could that day so he could deal with his visa issue, but he was not able to make it back in time so he was DQed.
Well that make sense then. Still, they DQed Jim due to their schedule makes no sense, since they delayed their schedule on both day due to "technical issue." Consider China is the host of the event, give Jim a chance is not unreasonable.
Update from the neotv forum, jim is definitely DQ'd this time, but he's going to be given a seed to the next IEM (which will be in New York, so if he doesn't get a visa it still won't work -_-")
On July 26 2013 11:03 Doodsmack wrote: Clearly it was foreseeable by iG and Jim that he wouldn't be able to apply for a visa until after qualifying for the Ro16. It's questionable whether he should even sign up for the tournament under these conditions. He basically took a gamble that he'd be able to play in the Ro16 and beyond.
why not make reservations for plane ticket and apply for visa 8 months in advance?
if you dont make it into round of 16, then just cancel the plane ticket?
Read the thread. You just can't show up at the US embassy "Hi I may qualify in 6 month for a video game competition in the US, give me a visa pretty please"
On July 26 2013 11:03 Doodsmack wrote: Clearly it was foreseeable by iG and Jim that he wouldn't be able to apply for a visa until after qualifying for the Ro16. It's questionable whether he should even sign up for the tournament under these conditions. He basically took a gamble that he'd be able to play in the Ro16 and beyond.
why not make reservations for plane ticket and apply for visa 8 months in advance?
if you dont make it into round of 16, then just cancel the plane ticket?
Read the thread. You just can't show up at the US embassy "Hi I may qualify in 6 month for a video game competition in the US, give me a visa pretty please"
...
what? why cant you apply for a visa 6 months in advance to go sightseeing in US?
it doesnt matter whether you make it into the round of 16 or not, apply for Visa anyway
simply say," I have bought tickets for a trip to US in 8 months, for sightseeing and meeting friends, I want to apply for a non-immigrant visa."
only time they reject someone from sightseeing, if you have a criminal record or some other stuff like that, or it seems that you want to go to US and never leave
Why cant someone just apply for a visa to visit friends in US?
The first thing that one needs to set before even attempting to go to the States is to have a purpose for going there in the first place. That purpose has to be extremely clear at the outset and should answer these four basic questions:
1. What are you going to do in the US?
meet my friends, vacation, and compete in a tournament for a few days/week
2. How long will you be staying there?
few days/week
3. Who is paying for your expenses? myself and my team company that I represent
4. And most importantly, When are you coming back?
All the big esports organizations hate chinese players apparently. First MLG now IEM. It's kind of a joke that they used the having to follow schedule excuse btw. No big tournaments aside from GSL actually keep up with their promised schedules.
On July 26 2013 11:03 Doodsmack wrote: Clearly it was foreseeable by iG and Jim that he wouldn't be able to apply for a visa until after qualifying for the Ro16. It's questionable whether he should even sign up for the tournament under these conditions. He basically took a gamble that he'd be able to play in the Ro16 and beyond.
why not make reservations for plane ticket and apply for visa 8 months in advance?
if you dont make it into round of 16, then just cancel the plane ticket?
Read the thread. You just can't show up at the US embassy "Hi I may qualify in 6 month for a video game competition in the US, give me a visa pretty please"
...
what? why cant you apply for a visa 6 months in advance to go sightseeing in US?
it doesnt matter whether you make it into the round of 16 or not, apply for Visa anyway
simply say," I have bought tickets for a trip to US in 8 months, for sightseeing and meeting friends, I want to apply for a non-immigrant visa."
only time they reject someone from sightseeing, if if you have a criminal record or some other stuff like that
Why cant someone just apply for a visa to visit friends in US?
The first thing that one needs to set before even attempting to go to the States is to have a purpose for going there in the first place. That purpose has to be extremely clear at the outset and should answer these four basic questions:
1. What are you going to do in the US?
meet my friends, and compete in a tournament for a few days/week
2. How long will you be staying there?
few days/week
3. Who is paying for your expenses? myself and my team company that I represent
4. And most importantly, When are you coming back?
after a few days/week on "etc etc date"
So basically lie your ass off... Edit: you changed your post cause there was nothing about playing in a tournament first but just outright lying your are going only to sightsee.
On July 26 2013 11:03 Doodsmack wrote: Clearly it was foreseeable by iG and Jim that he wouldn't be able to apply for a visa until after qualifying for the Ro16. It's questionable whether he should even sign up for the tournament under these conditions. He basically took a gamble that he'd be able to play in the Ro16 and beyond.
why not make reservations for plane ticket and apply for visa 8 months in advance?
if you dont make it into round of 16, then just cancel the plane ticket?
Read the thread. You just can't show up at the US embassy "Hi I may qualify in 6 month for a video game competition in the US, give me a visa pretty please"
...
what? why cant you apply for a visa 6 months in advance to go sightseeing in US?
it doesnt matter whether you make it into the round of 16 or not, apply for Visa anyway
simply say," I have bought tickets for a trip to US in 8 months, for sightseeing and meeting friends, I want to apply for a non-immigrant visa."
only time they reject someone from sightseeing, if if you have a criminal record or some other stuff like that
Why cant someone just apply for a visa to visit friends in US?
The first thing that one needs to set before even attempting to go to the States is to have a purpose for going there in the first place. That purpose has to be extremely clear at the outset and should answer these four basic questions:
1. What are you going to do in the US?
meet my friends, and compete in a tournament for a few days/week
2. How long will you be staying there?
few days/week
3. Who is paying for your expenses? myself and my team company that I represent
4. And most importantly, When are you coming back?
after a few days/week on "etc etc date"
So because lie your ass off... Edit: you changed your post cause there was nothing about playing in a tournament first but just outright lying your are going only to sightsee.
change post cause of what?
they reason you tell the Consular can be anything from sightseeing, to meeting friends, to competing in tournament
i just listed more stuff that you can say, when they ask you
its not lying to them if its true that you are there in US to sightsee or playing in a tournament
thats not a immigrant/work visa, thats only a non-immgrant/traveling visa
in fact, you probably dont even have to talk about the tournament, you just want to go to US for a vacation trip
if somehow they think you want to stow away in US and never leave and thus deny your Visa application, just reapply ASAP
since you started 8 months earlier, you have plenty of time to reapply if necessary
On July 26 2013 11:03 Doodsmack wrote: Clearly it was foreseeable by iG and Jim that he wouldn't be able to apply for a visa until after qualifying for the Ro16. It's questionable whether he should even sign up for the tournament under these conditions. He basically took a gamble that he'd be able to play in the Ro16 and beyond.
why not make reservations for plane ticket and apply for visa 8 months in advance?
if you dont make it into round of 16, then just cancel the plane ticket?
Read the thread. You just can't show up at the US embassy "Hi I may qualify in 6 month for a video game competition in the US, give me a visa pretty please"
...
what? why cant you apply for a visa 6 months in advance to go sightseeing in US?
it doesnt matter whether you make it into the round of 16 or not, apply for Visa anyway
simply say," I have bought tickets for a trip to US in 8 months, for sightseeing and meeting friends, I want to apply for a non-immigrant visa."
only time they reject someone from sightseeing, if if you have a criminal record or some other stuff like that
Why cant someone just apply for a visa to visit friends in US?
The first thing that one needs to set before even attempting to go to the States is to have a purpose for going there in the first place. That purpose has to be extremely clear at the outset and should answer these four basic questions:
1. What are you going to do in the US?
meet my friends, and compete in a tournament for a few days/week
2. How long will you be staying there?
few days/week
3. Who is paying for your expenses? myself and my team company that I represent
4. And most importantly, When are you coming back?
after a few days/week on "etc etc date"
So basically lie your ass off... Edit: you changed your post cause there was nothing about playing in a tournament first but just outright lying your are going only to sightsee.
Yes, because lieing to USCIS is a GREAT idea. I am sure they will let you back in for Season 3. "Hey guys, going sight seeing again. What? This mouse and keyboard? That's for sight seeing. Wait, you want do you mean I have to come with you? Where?"
I am sure that will work out.
Edit: saw you second post. You clearly don't understand how the visa and passport system works. If they figure out you are over here for ANYTHING but your stated purpose, you could end up locked up, deported and never able to travel to the US again. If he wins WCS NA and and the USCIS found out, he would never be able to come back to the US. Spot posting when you have no idea what you are talking about.
On July 26 2013 11:03 Doodsmack wrote: Clearly it was foreseeable by iG and Jim that he wouldn't be able to apply for a visa until after qualifying for the Ro16. It's questionable whether he should even sign up for the tournament under these conditions. He basically took a gamble that he'd be able to play in the Ro16 and beyond.
why not make reservations for plane ticket and apply for visa 8 months in advance?
if you dont make it into round of 16, then just cancel the plane ticket?
Read the thread. You just can't show up at the US embassy "Hi I may qualify in 6 month for a video game competition in the US, give me a visa pretty please"
...
what? why cant you apply for a visa 6 months in advance to go sightseeing in US?
it doesnt matter whether you make it into the round of 16 or not, apply for Visa anyway
simply say," I have bought tickets for a trip to US in 8 months, for sightseeing and meeting friends, I want to apply for a non-immigrant visa."
only time they reject someone from sightseeing, if if you have a criminal record or some other stuff like that
Why cant someone just apply for a visa to visit friends in US?
The first thing that one needs to set before even attempting to go to the States is to have a purpose for going there in the first place. That purpose has to be extremely clear at the outset and should answer these four basic questions:
1. What are you going to do in the US?
meet my friends, and compete in a tournament for a few days/week
2. How long will you be staying there?
few days/week
3. Who is paying for your expenses? myself and my team company that I represent
4. And most importantly, When are you coming back?
after a few days/week on "etc etc date"
So basically lie your ass off... Edit: you changed your post cause there was nothing about playing in a tournament first but just outright lying your are going only to sightsee.
Yes, because lieing to USCIS is a GREAT idea. I am sure they will let you back in for Season 3. "Hey guys, going sight seeing again. What? This mouse and keyboard? That's for sight seeing. Wait, you want do you mean I have to come with you? Where?"
I am sure that will work out.
Ok so you dont want to give a general reason to them cause you think its lying, then specifically say, "going because of a video game tournament."
and okay, if you want to tell them you play video games tournament, whats so bad about that? you think they will deny you because you told them you are going to US for a videogame tournament?
the main reason they deny people is if they have criminal records or seem like they want to say in US forever, main thing is that they want to be sure you will return to where you came from
Many people travel to EVOLUTION video game tournament each year in US, i dont know exactly what they tell the US consulars, but they are going for a video game tournament, and they get their visa accepted (which they apply for like atleast 8 months in advance)
fucking sucks. kid has some unique playstyle and a ton of talent. hes gonna be a beast internationally in no time at all, already owns the korean gms with weird ass strats.
On July 26 2013 11:03 Doodsmack wrote: Clearly it was foreseeable by iG and Jim that he wouldn't be able to apply for a visa until after qualifying for the Ro16. It's questionable whether he should even sign up for the tournament under these conditions. He basically took a gamble that he'd be able to play in the Ro16 and beyond.
why not make reservations for plane ticket and apply for visa 8 months in advance?
if you dont make it into round of 16, then just cancel the plane ticket?
Read the thread. You just can't show up at the US embassy "Hi I may qualify in 6 month for a video game competition in the US, give me a visa pretty please"
...
what? why cant you apply for a visa 6 months in advance to go sightseeing in US?
it doesnt matter whether you make it into the round of 16 or not, apply for Visa anyway
simply say," I have bought tickets for a trip to US in 8 months, for sightseeing and meeting friends, I want to apply for a non-immigrant visa."
only time they reject someone from sightseeing, if if you have a criminal record or some other stuff like that
Why cant someone just apply for a visa to visit friends in US?
The first thing that one needs to set before even attempting to go to the States is to have a purpose for going there in the first place. That purpose has to be extremely clear at the outset and should answer these four basic questions:
1. What are you going to do in the US?
meet my friends, and compete in a tournament for a few days/week
2. How long will you be staying there?
few days/week
3. Who is paying for your expenses? myself and my team company that I represent
4. And most importantly, When are you coming back?
after a few days/week on "etc etc date"
So basically lie your ass off... Edit: you changed your post cause there was nothing about playing in a tournament first but just outright lying your are going only to sightsee.
Yes, because lieing to USCIS is a GREAT idea. I am sure they will let you back in for Season 3. "Hey guys, going sight seeing again. What? This mouse and keyboard? That's for sight seeing. Wait, you want do you mean I have to come with you? Where?"
I am sure that will work out.
Its not lying just vacation, you cant go to US for vacation?
and okay, if you want to tell them you play video games tournament, whats so bad about that? you think they will deny you because you told them you are going to US for a videogame tournament?
the main reason they deny people is if they have criminal records or seem like they want to say in US forever
Many people travel to EVOLUTION video game tournament each year in US, i dont know exactly what they tell the US consulars, but they are going for a video game tournament, and they get their visa accepted (which they apply for like atleast 8 months in advance)
Once again, you don't know what you are talking about. There are people who are better informed and the difficulties of traveling form China who have said the process takes months and you can't apply until you have evidence as to what you are doing. He can't say "I'm going sightseeing", they will just deny in visa request. There are tons of countries that we do not let people "just sight see", including China. Stop posting when you don't know what your talking about.
On July 26 2013 11:03 Doodsmack wrote: Clearly it was foreseeable by iG and Jim that he wouldn't be able to apply for a visa until after qualifying for the Ro16. It's questionable whether he should even sign up for the tournament under these conditions. He basically took a gamble that he'd be able to play in the Ro16 and beyond.
why not make reservations for plane ticket and apply for visa 8 months in advance?
if you dont make it into round of 16, then just cancel the plane ticket?
Read the thread. You just can't show up at the US embassy "Hi I may qualify in 6 month for a video game competition in the US, give me a visa pretty please"
...
what? why cant you apply for a visa 6 months in advance to go sightseeing in US?
it doesnt matter whether you make it into the round of 16 or not, apply for Visa anyway
simply say," I have bought tickets for a trip to US in 8 months, for sightseeing and meeting friends, I want to apply for a non-immigrant visa."
only time they reject someone from sightseeing, if if you have a criminal record or some other stuff like that
Why cant someone just apply for a visa to visit friends in US?
The first thing that one needs to set before even attempting to go to the States is to have a purpose for going there in the first place. That purpose has to be extremely clear at the outset and should answer these four basic questions:
1. What are you going to do in the US?
meet my friends, and compete in a tournament for a few days/week
2. How long will you be staying there?
few days/week
3. Who is paying for your expenses? myself and my team company that I represent
4. And most importantly, When are you coming back?
after a few days/week on "etc etc date"
So basically lie your ass off... Edit: you changed your post cause there was nothing about playing in a tournament first but just outright lying your are going only to sightsee.
Yes, because lieing to USCIS is a GREAT idea. I am sure they will let you back in for Season 3. "Hey guys, going sight seeing again. What? This mouse and keyboard? That's for sight seeing. Wait, you want do you mean I have to come with you? Where?"
I am sure that will work out.
Its not lying just vacation, you cant go to US for vacation?
and okay, if you want to tell them you play video games tournament, whats so bad about that? you think they will deny you because you told them you are going to US for a videogame tournament?
the main reason they deny people is if they have criminal records or seem like they want to say in US forever
Many people travel to EVOLUTION video game tournament each year in US, i dont know exactly what they tell the US consulars, but they are going for a video game tournament, and they get their visa accepted (which they apply for like atleast 8 months in advance)
Once again, you don't know what you are talking about. There are people who are better informed and the difficulties of traveling form China who have said the process takes months and you can't apply until you have evidence as to what you are doing. He can't say "I'm going sightseeing", they will just deny in visa request. Stop posting when you don't know what your talking about.
Dude do you know what you are talking about? you think its hard to get a non-immigrant visa for traveling purpose if you do it 8 months in advance?
its only hard if you wait till the last minute
so basically you are saying noone can go to US?
yes the process can take months, that why you start very early, no matter if you are in top 16 or not, start applying early, just say you are going to video game tournament
again, for example thousands of people from around the world go to EVOLUTION Videogame tournament each year they all start on their visas a year in advance or so
their purpose? sightseeing/play videogames, and they dont get denied
another example, my friends Cousin from China wanted to visit us and then we go to Anaheim Disneyland
he applied for visa many months in advance
while in US, we went to Disneyland, and also Comic-con and other events in LA, did he need to tell the US Consulate that he was going to Comic-con also, going to cosplay also, etc? nope
On July 26 2013 11:03 Doodsmack wrote: Clearly it was foreseeable by iG and Jim that he wouldn't be able to apply for a visa until after qualifying for the Ro16. It's questionable whether he should even sign up for the tournament under these conditions. He basically took a gamble that he'd be able to play in the Ro16 and beyond.
why not make reservations for plane ticket and apply for visa 8 months in advance?
if you dont make it into round of 16, then just cancel the plane ticket?
Read the thread. You just can't show up at the US embassy "Hi I may qualify in 6 month for a video game competition in the US, give me a visa pretty please"
...
what? why cant you apply for a visa 6 months in advance to go sightseeing in US?
it doesnt matter whether you make it into the round of 16 or not, apply for Visa anyway
simply say," I have bought tickets for a trip to US in 8 months, for sightseeing and meeting friends, I want to apply for a non-immigrant visa."
only time they reject someone from sightseeing, if if you have a criminal record or some other stuff like that
Why cant someone just apply for a visa to visit friends in US?
The first thing that one needs to set before even attempting to go to the States is to have a purpose for going there in the first place. That purpose has to be extremely clear at the outset and should answer these four basic questions:
1. What are you going to do in the US?
meet my friends, and compete in a tournament for a few days/week
2. How long will you be staying there?
few days/week
3. Who is paying for your expenses? myself and my team company that I represent
4. And most importantly, When are you coming back?
after a few days/week on "etc etc date"
So basically lie your ass off... Edit: you changed your post cause there was nothing about playing in a tournament first but just outright lying your are going only to sightsee.
Yes, because lieing to USCIS is a GREAT idea. I am sure they will let you back in for Season 3. "Hey guys, going sight seeing again. What? This mouse and keyboard? That's for sight seeing. Wait, you want do you mean I have to come with you? Where?"
I am sure that will work out.
Its not lying just vacation, you cant go to US for vacation?
and okay, if you want to tell them you play video games tournament, whats so bad about that? you think they will deny you because you told them you are going to US for a videogame tournament?
the main reason they deny people is if they have criminal records or seem like they want to say in US forever
Many people travel to EVOLUTION video game tournament each year in US, i dont know exactly what they tell the US consulars, but they are going for a video game tournament, and they get their visa accepted (which they apply for like atleast 8 months in advance)
Once again, you don't know what you are talking about. There are people who are better informed and the difficulties of traveling form China who have said the process takes months and you can't apply until you have evidence as to what you are doing. He can't say "I'm going sightseeing", they will just deny in visa request. Stop posting when you don't know what your talking about.
Dude do you know what you are talking about? you think its hard to get a non-immigrant visa for traveling purpose if you do it 8 months in advance?
its only hard if you want till the last minute
so basically you are saying noone can go to US?
yes the process can take months, that why you start very early, no matter if you are in top 16 or not, start applying early, just say you are going to video game tournament
No I am saying people from CHINA can't come to the US whenever they please. They need to have a reason and it can't be "sight seeing". Read the read, people from China will confirm this. The US has very poor relations with China and they don't let anyone come over for whatever reason they want.
On July 26 2013 11:03 Doodsmack wrote: Clearly it was foreseeable by iG and Jim that he wouldn't be able to apply for a visa until after qualifying for the Ro16. It's questionable whether he should even sign up for the tournament under these conditions. He basically took a gamble that he'd be able to play in the Ro16 and beyond.
why not make reservations for plane ticket and apply for visa 8 months in advance?
if you dont make it into round of 16, then just cancel the plane ticket?
Read the thread. You just can't show up at the US embassy "Hi I may qualify in 6 month for a video game competition in the US, give me a visa pretty please"
...
what? why cant you apply for a visa 6 months in advance to go sightseeing in US?
it doesnt matter whether you make it into the round of 16 or not, apply for Visa anyway
simply say," I have bought tickets for a trip to US in 8 months, for sightseeing and meeting friends, I want to apply for a non-immigrant visa."
only time they reject someone from sightseeing, if if you have a criminal record or some other stuff like that
Why cant someone just apply for a visa to visit friends in US?
The first thing that one needs to set before even attempting to go to the States is to have a purpose for going there in the first place. That purpose has to be extremely clear at the outset and should answer these four basic questions:
1. What are you going to do in the US?
meet my friends, and compete in a tournament for a few days/week
2. How long will you be staying there?
few days/week
3. Who is paying for your expenses? myself and my team company that I represent
4. And most importantly, When are you coming back?
after a few days/week on "etc etc date"
So basically lie your ass off... Edit: you changed your post cause there was nothing about playing in a tournament first but just outright lying your are going only to sightsee.
Yes, because lieing to USCIS is a GREAT idea. I am sure they will let you back in for Season 3. "Hey guys, going sight seeing again. What? This mouse and keyboard? That's for sight seeing. Wait, you want do you mean I have to come with you? Where?"
I am sure that will work out.
Its not lying just vacation, you cant go to US for vacation?
and okay, if you want to tell them you play video games tournament, whats so bad about that? you think they will deny you because you told them you are going to US for a videogame tournament?
the main reason they deny people is if they have criminal records or seem like they want to say in US forever
Many people travel to EVOLUTION video game tournament each year in US, i dont know exactly what they tell the US consulars, but they are going for a video game tournament, and they get their visa accepted (which they apply for like atleast 8 months in advance)
Once again, you don't know what you are talking about. There are people who are better informed and the difficulties of traveling form China who have said the process takes months and you can't apply until you have evidence as to what you are doing. He can't say "I'm going sightseeing", they will just deny in visa request. Stop posting when you don't know what your talking about.
Dude do you know what you are talking about? you think its hard to get a non-immigrant visa for traveling purpose if you do it 8 months in advance?
its only hard if you want till the last minute
so basically you are saying noone can go to US?
yes the process can take months, that why you start very early, no matter if you are in top 16 or not, start applying early, just say you are going to video game tournament
No I am saying people from CHINA can't come to the US whenever they please. They need to have a reason and it can't be "sight seeing". Read the read, people from China will confirm this. The US has very poor relations with China and they don't let anyone come over for whatever reason they want.
Friends cousin was from Guangzhou, he was able to get to US to visit family and see Disneyland how? cause he applied early and showed he would return to China not sure if he had to do application multiple times or not
but yes its possible for Chinese to visit US lol you think there is a ban on Chinese, and dont allow them into US or something?....
getting a visa is not impossible but it may be difficult. US visa officers (in embassies & consulates) are trained to view every applicant (not just Chinese) as a potential illegal immigrant, and are especially suspicious of single, young females. basically has to prove - in advance - he/she will return home (or at least leave the USA) on schedule.
why not make reservations for plane ticket and apply for visa 8 months in advance?
if you dont make it into round of 16, then just cancel the plane ticket?
Read the thread. You just can't show up at the US embassy "Hi I may qualify in 6 month for a video game competition in the US, give me a visa pretty please"
...
what? why cant you apply for a visa 6 months in advance to go sightseeing in US?
it doesnt matter whether you make it into the round of 16 or not, apply for Visa anyway
simply say," I have bought tickets for a trip to US in 8 months, for sightseeing and meeting friends, I want to apply for a non-immigrant visa."
only time they reject someone from sightseeing, if if you have a criminal record or some other stuff like that
Why cant someone just apply for a visa to visit friends in US?
The first thing that one needs to set before even attempting to go to the States is to have a purpose for going there in the first place. That purpose has to be extremely clear at the outset and should answer these four basic questions:
1. What are you going to do in the US?
meet my friends, and compete in a tournament for a few days/week
2. How long will you be staying there?
few days/week
3. Who is paying for your expenses? myself and my team company that I represent
4. And most importantly, When are you coming back?
after a few days/week on "etc etc date"
So basically lie your ass off... Edit: you changed your post cause there was nothing about playing in a tournament first but just outright lying your are going only to sightsee.
Yes, because lieing to USCIS is a GREAT idea. I am sure they will let you back in for Season 3. "Hey guys, going sight seeing again. What? This mouse and keyboard? That's for sight seeing. Wait, you want do you mean I have to come with you? Where?"
I am sure that will work out.
Its not lying just vacation, you cant go to US for vacation?
and okay, if you want to tell them you play video games tournament, whats so bad about that? you think they will deny you because you told them you are going to US for a videogame tournament?
the main reason they deny people is if they have criminal records or seem like they want to say in US forever
Many people travel to EVOLUTION video game tournament each year in US, i dont know exactly what they tell the US consulars, but they are going for a video game tournament, and they get their visa accepted (which they apply for like atleast 8 months in advance)
Once again, you don't know what you are talking about. There are people who are better informed and the difficulties of traveling form China who have said the process takes months and you can't apply until you have evidence as to what you are doing. He can't say "I'm going sightseeing", they will just deny in visa request. Stop posting when you don't know what your talking about.
Dude do you know what you are talking about? you think its hard to get a non-immigrant visa for traveling purpose if you do it 8 months in advance?
its only hard if you want till the last minute
so basically you are saying noone can go to US?
yes the process can take months, that why you start very early, no matter if you are in top 16 or not, start applying early, just say you are going to video game tournament
No I am saying people from CHINA can't come to the US whenever they please. They need to have a reason and it can't be "sight seeing". Read the read, people from China will confirm this. The US has very poor relations with China and they don't let anyone come over for whatever reason they want.
Friends cousin was from Guangzhou, he was able to get to US to visit family and see Disneyland how? cause he applied early and showed he would return to China
Read the thread. You just can't show up at the US embassy "Hi I may qualify in 6 month for a video game competition in the US, give me a visa pretty please"
...
what? why cant you apply for a visa 6 months in advance to go sightseeing in US?
it doesnt matter whether you make it into the round of 16 or not, apply for Visa anyway
simply say," I have bought tickets for a trip to US in 8 months, for sightseeing and meeting friends, I want to apply for a non-immigrant visa."
only time they reject someone from sightseeing, if if you have a criminal record or some other stuff like that
Why cant someone just apply for a visa to visit friends in US?
The first thing that one needs to set before even attempting to go to the States is to have a purpose for going there in the first place. That purpose has to be extremely clear at the outset and should answer these four basic questions:
1. What are you going to do in the US?
meet my friends, and compete in a tournament for a few days/week
2. How long will you be staying there?
few days/week
3. Who is paying for your expenses? myself and my team company that I represent
4. And most importantly, When are you coming back?
after a few days/week on "etc etc date"
So basically lie your ass off... Edit: you changed your post cause there was nothing about playing in a tournament first but just outright lying your are going only to sightsee.
Yes, because lieing to USCIS is a GREAT idea. I am sure they will let you back in for Season 3. "Hey guys, going sight seeing again. What? This mouse and keyboard? That's for sight seeing. Wait, you want do you mean I have to come with you? Where?"
I am sure that will work out.
Its not lying just vacation, you cant go to US for vacation?
and okay, if you want to tell them you play video games tournament, whats so bad about that? you think they will deny you because you told them you are going to US for a videogame tournament?
the main reason they deny people is if they have criminal records or seem like they want to say in US forever
Many people travel to EVOLUTION video game tournament each year in US, i dont know exactly what they tell the US consulars, but they are going for a video game tournament, and they get their visa accepted (which they apply for like atleast 8 months in advance)
Once again, you don't know what you are talking about. There are people who are better informed and the difficulties of traveling form China who have said the process takes months and you can't apply until you have evidence as to what you are doing. He can't say "I'm going sightseeing", they will just deny in visa request. Stop posting when you don't know what your talking about.
Dude do you know what you are talking about? you think its hard to get a non-immigrant visa for traveling purpose if you do it 8 months in advance?
its only hard if you want till the last minute
so basically you are saying noone can go to US?
yes the process can take months, that why you start very early, no matter if you are in top 16 or not, start applying early, just say you are going to video game tournament
No I am saying people from CHINA can't come to the US whenever they please. They need to have a reason and it can't be "sight seeing". Read the read, people from China will confirm this. The US has very poor relations with China and they don't let anyone come over for whatever reason they want.
Friends cousin was from Guangzhou, he was able to get to US to visit family and see Disneyland how? cause he applied early and showed he would return to China
It's obviously because he has family in the US.
That fact is lost on him. Clearly there is a huge difference between someone visiting family and a random 17 year old kid saying "I'm coming here for sight seeing and video games".
Read the thread. You just can't show up at the US embassy "Hi I may qualify in 6 month for a video game competition in the US, give me a visa pretty please"
...
what? why cant you apply for a visa 6 months in advance to go sightseeing in US?
it doesnt matter whether you make it into the round of 16 or not, apply for Visa anyway
simply say," I have bought tickets for a trip to US in 8 months, for sightseeing and meeting friends, I want to apply for a non-immigrant visa."
only time they reject someone from sightseeing, if if you have a criminal record or some other stuff like that
Why cant someone just apply for a visa to visit friends in US?
The first thing that one needs to set before even attempting to go to the States is to have a purpose for going there in the first place. That purpose has to be extremely clear at the outset and should answer these four basic questions:
1. What are you going to do in the US?
meet my friends, and compete in a tournament for a few days/week
2. How long will you be staying there?
few days/week
3. Who is paying for your expenses? myself and my team company that I represent
4. And most importantly, When are you coming back?
after a few days/week on "etc etc date"
So basically lie your ass off... Edit: you changed your post cause there was nothing about playing in a tournament first but just outright lying your are going only to sightsee.
Yes, because lieing to USCIS is a GREAT idea. I am sure they will let you back in for Season 3. "Hey guys, going sight seeing again. What? This mouse and keyboard? That's for sight seeing. Wait, you want do you mean I have to come with you? Where?"
I am sure that will work out.
Its not lying just vacation, you cant go to US for vacation?
and okay, if you want to tell them you play video games tournament, whats so bad about that? you think they will deny you because you told them you are going to US for a videogame tournament?
the main reason they deny people is if they have criminal records or seem like they want to say in US forever
Many people travel to EVOLUTION video game tournament each year in US, i dont know exactly what they tell the US consulars, but they are going for a video game tournament, and they get their visa accepted (which they apply for like atleast 8 months in advance)
Once again, you don't know what you are talking about. There are people who are better informed and the difficulties of traveling form China who have said the process takes months and you can't apply until you have evidence as to what you are doing. He can't say "I'm going sightseeing", they will just deny in visa request. Stop posting when you don't know what your talking about.
Dude do you know what you are talking about? you think its hard to get a non-immigrant visa for traveling purpose if you do it 8 months in advance?
its only hard if you want till the last minute
so basically you are saying noone can go to US?
yes the process can take months, that why you start very early, no matter if you are in top 16 or not, start applying early, just say you are going to video game tournament
No I am saying people from CHINA can't come to the US whenever they please. They need to have a reason and it can't be "sight seeing". Read the read, people from China will confirm this. The US has very poor relations with China and they don't let anyone come over for whatever reason they want.
Friends cousin was from Guangzhou, he was able to get to US to visit family and see Disneyland how? cause he applied early and showed he would return to China
It's obviously because he has family in the US.
Ok forget that example then if you think family is the major factor
are you saying Chinese people cannot go to US for travelers non-immgrant visa?
complete ban on non-family Chinese or something?
Chinese people have made it to EVOLUTION videogame tournament in US which happens each year their purpose? to sightsee and play video games
they must have family in US cause if they didnt they would have been banned?
it may be difficult, but its possible, and you may need to try more than once, thats why you gota start early
what? why cant you apply for a visa 6 months in advance to go sightseeing in US?
it doesnt matter whether you make it into the round of 16 or not, apply for Visa anyway
simply say," I have bought tickets for a trip to US in 8 months, for sightseeing and meeting friends, I want to apply for a non-immigrant visa."
only time they reject someone from sightseeing, if if you have a criminal record or some other stuff like that
Why cant someone just apply for a visa to visit friends in US?
The first thing that one needs to set before even attempting to go to the States is to have a purpose for going there in the first place. That purpose has to be extremely clear at the outset and should answer these four basic questions:
1. What are you going to do in the US?
meet my friends, and compete in a tournament for a few days/week
2. How long will you be staying there?
few days/week
3. Who is paying for your expenses? myself and my team company that I represent
4. And most importantly, When are you coming back?
after a few days/week on "etc etc date"
So basically lie your ass off... Edit: you changed your post cause there was nothing about playing in a tournament first but just outright lying your are going only to sightsee.
Yes, because lieing to USCIS is a GREAT idea. I am sure they will let you back in for Season 3. "Hey guys, going sight seeing again. What? This mouse and keyboard? That's for sight seeing. Wait, you want do you mean I have to come with you? Where?"
I am sure that will work out.
Its not lying just vacation, you cant go to US for vacation?
and okay, if you want to tell them you play video games tournament, whats so bad about that? you think they will deny you because you told them you are going to US for a videogame tournament?
the main reason they deny people is if they have criminal records or seem like they want to say in US forever
Many people travel to EVOLUTION video game tournament each year in US, i dont know exactly what they tell the US consulars, but they are going for a video game tournament, and they get their visa accepted (which they apply for like atleast 8 months in advance)
Once again, you don't know what you are talking about. There are people who are better informed and the difficulties of traveling form China who have said the process takes months and you can't apply until you have evidence as to what you are doing. He can't say "I'm going sightseeing", they will just deny in visa request. Stop posting when you don't know what your talking about.
Dude do you know what you are talking about? you think its hard to get a non-immigrant visa for traveling purpose if you do it 8 months in advance?
its only hard if you want till the last minute
so basically you are saying noone can go to US?
yes the process can take months, that why you start very early, no matter if you are in top 16 or not, start applying early, just say you are going to video game tournament
No I am saying people from CHINA can't come to the US whenever they please. They need to have a reason and it can't be "sight seeing". Read the read, people from China will confirm this. The US has very poor relations with China and they don't let anyone come over for whatever reason they want.
Friends cousin was from Guangzhou, he was able to get to US to visit family and see Disneyland how? cause he applied early and showed he would return to China
It's obviously because he has family in the US.
Ok forget that example then if you think family is the major factor
are you saying Chinese people cannot go to US for sightseeing non-immgrant visa?
complete ban on non-family Chinese or something?
it may be difficult, but its possible, and you may need to try more than once, thats why you gota start early
Yes, we are saying that a 17 year old kid can't just get a visa to come over to sight see. That is 100% correct. Student visas get denied when they are fully accepted, with financing and everything.
why not make reservations for plane ticket and apply for visa 8 months in advance?
if you dont make it into round of 16, then just cancel the plane ticket?
Read the thread. You just can't show up at the US embassy "Hi I may qualify in 6 month for a video game competition in the US, give me a visa pretty please"
...
what? why cant you apply for a visa 6 months in advance to go sightseeing in US?
it doesnt matter whether you make it into the round of 16 or not, apply for Visa anyway
simply say," I have bought tickets for a trip to US in 8 months, for sightseeing and meeting friends, I want to apply for a non-immigrant visa."
only time they reject someone from sightseeing, if if you have a criminal record or some other stuff like that
Why cant someone just apply for a visa to visit friends in US?
The first thing that one needs to set before even attempting to go to the States is to have a purpose for going there in the first place. That purpose has to be extremely clear at the outset and should answer these four basic questions:
1. What are you going to do in the US?
meet my friends, and compete in a tournament for a few days/week
2. How long will you be staying there?
few days/week
3. Who is paying for your expenses? myself and my team company that I represent
4. And most importantly, When are you coming back?
after a few days/week on "etc etc date"
So basically lie your ass off... Edit: you changed your post cause there was nothing about playing in a tournament first but just outright lying your are going only to sightsee.
Yes, because lieing to USCIS is a GREAT idea. I am sure they will let you back in for Season 3. "Hey guys, going sight seeing again. What? This mouse and keyboard? That's for sight seeing. Wait, you want do you mean I have to come with you? Where?"
I am sure that will work out.
Its not lying just vacation, you cant go to US for vacation?
and okay, if you want to tell them you play video games tournament, whats so bad about that? you think they will deny you because you told them you are going to US for a videogame tournament?
the main reason they deny people is if they have criminal records or seem like they want to say in US forever
Many people travel to EVOLUTION video game tournament each year in US, i dont know exactly what they tell the US consulars, but they are going for a video game tournament, and they get their visa accepted (which they apply for like atleast 8 months in advance)
Once again, you don't know what you are talking about. There are people who are better informed and the difficulties of traveling form China who have said the process takes months and you can't apply until you have evidence as to what you are doing. He can't say "I'm going sightseeing", they will just deny in visa request. Stop posting when you don't know what your talking about.
Dude do you know what you are talking about? you think its hard to get a non-immigrant visa for traveling purpose if you do it 8 months in advance?
its only hard if you want till the last minute
so basically you are saying noone can go to US?
yes the process can take months, that why you start very early, no matter if you are in top 16 or not, start applying early, just say you are going to video game tournament
No I am saying people from CHINA can't come to the US whenever they please. They need to have a reason and it can't be "sight seeing". Read the read, people from China will confirm this. The US has very poor relations with China and they don't let anyone come over for whatever reason they want.
Friends cousin was from Guangzhou, he was able to get to US to visit family and see Disneyland how? cause he applied early and showed he would return to China not sure if he had to do application multiple times or not
but yes its possible for Chinese to visit US lol you think there is a ban on Chinese, and dont allow them into US or something?....
getting a visa is not impossible but it may be difficult. US visa officers (in embassies & consulates) are trained to view every applicant (not just Chinese) as a potential illegal immigrant, and are especially suspicious of single, young females. basically has to prove - in advance - he/she will return home (or at least leave the USA) on schedule.
Traveler Visa vs Work Visa... not exactly same thing.
LOL IEM
"You DQ because can't get Visa to US? We invite you to US so you can get DQed again."
I, as an American, actually received some heat from Netherlands customs when I stopped in Amsterdam for a 3 day extended layover because I didnt have a ticket with me for my flight out of the country back to the US. Customs agents in developed countries are always on the lookout for people who may be trying to enter the country with the intent to stay.
On July 26 2013 12:27 ragz_gt wrote: Traveler Visa vs Work Visa... not exactly same thing.
I think way too many in this thread have glossed over this fact. Jim is going to the US to WORK, to make money. In other words, in the eyes of US embassy, he be taking American jobs from hard working Americans.
Basically it boils down to this.
1. It's extra difficult for a Chinese person to get visa to the US, because of the current political climate and the countries' relationships
2. It's extra difficult to get a work visa in the US, because the US is currently not exactly the most welcoming of foreign workers.
3. It's extra difficult to get a visa within a short period of time short of just being a no-brainer visa. And the above two points ensure this.
All things considered, it's not exactly a surprise. Not saying it's impossible, but a Chinese national getting a visa to the US has always been quite a crapshoot. Something you shouldn't count on. However, one must wonder why team IG chose to participate in WCS America knowing all this. This visa issue is hardly a new thing.
On July 26 2013 12:27 ragz_gt wrote: Traveler Visa vs Work Visa... not exactly same thing.
All things considered, it's not exactly a surprise. Not saying it's impossible, but a Chinese national getting a visa to the US has always been quite a crapshoot. Something you shouldn't count on. However, one must wonder why team IG chose to participate in WCS America knowing all this. This visa issue is hardly a new thing.
Because WCS EU and WCS KR are even worse options. WCS EU has worse lag than China <-> NA and WCS KR requires you to live there atm (plus, nobody wants to play against all the Koreans).
I see a lot of misinformation regarding getting a VISA in the thread. This probably comes from people who have never applied for a VISA. The process can sometimes take a very long time and it costs a fair amount of money too. That's why you don't just randomly get a visa just in case you have to travel overseas to a country that requires it. You can also get denied for any reason and is not a given right like some of you make it out be.
mikumegurine has no fucking clue about applying visa from china to USA. listen to what the chinese says. I'm from Asia as well and its hard as fuck to get a US Visa. its not like i have money and i can pop over for sightseeing. worse for chinese.
as above mentioned, he is going to US to work, to win money, to take money away from USA citizens. not to splurge on vacation and help stimulate your economy by buying prada and LV.
btw, chinese LoL players have no such problem because Riot made those progamers their staff, a business invite is another case, its much easier. because Riot becomes their company sponsor and will be responsible for all the chinese players doing in USA (pay for their travel, accomm, salary, and even to answer if they flee and become illegal immigrant) . its something blizzard will never do.
EDIT: also just like students, you can't apply for a visa 8 months in advance saying that, I applied for Harvard, I MIGHT make it into Harvard so just give me my visa. see, i have money to study in harvard, i am sure harvard wants me too, so give me the damn visa. it doesnt work this way.........you have to wait for the official admission letter (or official employment letter for a job in USA) then only you can start applying.
LOL. There are tons of people sitting there and imagining the visa application is like calling the US embassy and saying I want to "pick" my visa from you on a random date I am available.
There're only handful of countries can get Visa to US easily, the rest of the world definitely cannot get Visa to US in a month, let alone couple weeks lol.
Chinese players should not be allowed to participate WCS. They mess up tournaments. It might be "wrong" but It is always a same thing and three player group is really shitty situation. It better for everyone if they just dont play.
On July 26 2013 16:39 Relaaja wrote: Chinese players should not be allowed to participate WCS. They mess up tournaments. It might be "wrong" but It is always a same thing and three player group is really shitty situation. It better for everyone if they just dont play.
People like you should not be allowed to post on TL. They mess up threads. It might be "wrong" but It is always a same thing and dumb posts create really shitty situation. It better for everyone if they just dont post.
more on topic: Really sad for Jim that it went down this way. Falling out of two tourneys in the span of a few hours is pretty harsh. Still hoping that they can work some magic and get the situation sorted out in time, but it seems like that's unlikely.
I'll be mad if Jim won't be able to play, was so happy he was going to play in IEM and WCS but if he can't play either I'll be mad, he's so fucking good and has a very interesting style, fuck t.t
On July 26 2013 11:03 Doodsmack wrote: Clearly it was foreseeable by iG and Jim that he wouldn't be able to apply for a visa until after qualifying for the Ro16. It's questionable whether he should even sign up for the tournament under these conditions. He basically took a gamble that he'd be able to play in the Ro16 and beyond.
why not make reservations for plane ticket and apply for visa 8 months in advance?
if you dont make it into round of 16, then just cancel the plane ticket?
Read the thread. You just can't show up at the US embassy "Hi I may qualify in 6 month for a video game competition in the US, give me a visa pretty please"
...
what? why cant you apply for a visa 6 months in advance to go sightseeing in US?
it doesnt matter whether you make it into the round of 16 or not, apply for Visa anyway
simply say," I have bought tickets for a trip to US in 8 months, for sightseeing and meeting friends, I want to apply for a non-immigrant visa."
only time they reject someone from sightseeing, if if you have a criminal record or some other stuff like that
Why cant someone just apply for a visa to visit friends in US?
The first thing that one needs to set before even attempting to go to the States is to have a purpose for going there in the first place. That purpose has to be extremely clear at the outset and should answer these four basic questions:
1. What are you going to do in the US?
meet my friends, and compete in a tournament for a few days/week
2. How long will you be staying there?
few days/week
3. Who is paying for your expenses? myself and my team company that I represent
4. And most importantly, When are you coming back?
after a few days/week on "etc etc date"
So basically lie your ass off... Edit: you changed your post cause there was nothing about playing in a tournament first but just outright lying your are going only to sightsee.
Yes, because lieing to USCIS is a GREAT idea. I am sure they will let you back in for Season 3. "Hey guys, going sight seeing again. What? This mouse and keyboard? That's for sight seeing. Wait, you want do you mean I have to come with you? Where?"
I am sure that will work out.
Its not lying just vacation, you cant go to US for vacation?
and okay, if you want to tell them you play video games tournament, whats so bad about that? you think they will deny you because you told them you are going to US for a videogame tournament?
the main reason they deny people is if they have criminal records or seem like they want to say in US forever
Many people travel to EVOLUTION video game tournament each year in US, i dont know exactly what they tell the US consulars, but they are going for a video game tournament, and they get their visa accepted (which they apply for like atleast 8 months in advance)
Once again, you don't know what you are talking about. There are people who are better informed and the difficulties of traveling form China who have said the process takes months and you can't apply until you have evidence as to what you are doing. He can't say "I'm going sightseeing", they will just deny in visa request. Stop posting when you don't know what your talking about.
Dude do you know what you are talking about? you think its hard to get a non-immigrant visa for traveling purpose if you do it 8 months in advance?
its only hard if you want till the last minute
so basically you are saying noone can go to US?
yes the process can take months, that why you start very early, no matter if you are in top 16 or not, start applying early, just say you are going to video game tournament
No I am saying people from CHINA can't come to the US whenever they please. They need to have a reason and it can't be "sight seeing". Read the read, people from China will confirm this. The US has very poor relations with China and they don't let anyone come over for whatever reason they want.
Its nothing to do the poor relationship, if the relationship does count, why US citizens can easliy grant China Visa, or just the "poor relationship" comes from one side~~LOL
On July 26 2013 14:38 quest_5692 wrote: mikumegurine has no fucking clue about applying visa from china to USA. listen to what the chinese says. I'm from Asia as well and its hard as fuck to get a US Visa. its not like i have money and i can pop over for sightseeing. worse for chinese.
as above mentioned, he is going to US to work, to win money, to take money away from USA citizens. not to splurge on vacation and help stimulate your economy by buying prada and LV.
btw, chinese LoL players have no such problem because Riot made those progamers their staff, a business invite is another case, its much easier. because Riot becomes their company sponsor and will be responsible for all the chinese players doing in USA (pay for their travel, accomm, salary, and even to answer if they flee and become illegal immigrant) . its something blizzard will never do.
EDIT: also just like students, you can't apply for a visa 8 months in advance saying that, I applied for Harvard, I MIGHT make it into Harvard so just give me my visa. see, i have money to study in harvard, i am sure harvard wants me too, so give me the damn visa. it doesnt work this way.........you have to wait for the official admission letter (or official employment letter for a job in USA) then only you can start applying.
I had heard the story that a student applied Harvard Univeristy for his PHD. And during the interview with the Visa Officer, He asked the student to talk about his graduated paper of the Master Degree. Talk about the professor who will mentor him in Harvard, and asked for the public journal if he had, and then asked "do you married?" WOW， you are single, you can't go to USA. Vias rejected.
On July 26 2013 11:03 Doodsmack wrote: Clearly it was foreseeable by iG and Jim that he wouldn't be able to apply for a visa until after qualifying for the Ro16. It's questionable whether he should even sign up for the tournament under these conditions. He basically took a gamble that he'd be able to play in the Ro16 and beyond.
Its all arranged by the manager of iG, but IEM start 2 hours late than it should be.
I had refrained from posting in this thread because I assumed most people already understood some of the most obvious factors related to this case, but apparently I was wrong, so I want to point out some things that really should be taken into consideration.
Getting a visa into the U.S. is difficult for a lot of reasons, and it's not because the U.S. is some "big, bad wolf" trying to eat the dreams of young Chinese. The first and foremost reason why it's so difficult for Chinese to get a visa to the U.S. is because of the insanely high volume of people from China trying to go to the U.S. every single day. You wonder why they had to wait in line for almost 3 hours? Go check out the nearest U.S. consulate when you're in China. See how many people are out there (coincidentally, I was at the one in Guangzhou 2 days ago. Wasn't pretty.). Whether they love it or hate it, for rational reasons or irrational reasons, mainland Chinese are absolutely obsessed with the U.S., and it's not hard to see once you've spent any significant time living here. For many Chinese, it's their ultimate dream to go to the U.S., whether it be for studying, traveling, or whatever. There are a lot of factors at play, but the end result is you have an insanely high volume of Chinese trying to immigrate or get visas every day. It's unfortunate, but some people have to get denied. When there are so many applying, sometimes the reasons may seem a bit arbitrary, sure. But there aren't a lot of alternatives, and one has to remember, at the end of the day, these officers have to do what's best for their country. To expect them not to act in such a way would be quite ignorant, and in some cases even hypocritical, I think.
If you doubt any of the above, do a little experiment. Go check out other consulates in China, and see what they're like. Then go back to the U.S. consulate. The differences are extraordinary. Just for reference, the other day I visited 3 separate consulates (Indian, Russian, and U.S.) in the same day, and the Indian and Russian ones were essentially empty. Relatively small, inside office buildings. The U.S. one however was huge, and yet there were still Chinese lined up all the way around the block, in two separate lines. That should help put things in perspective a bit.
It's also quite ignorant to assume that this is simply because of politics, or that the U.S. is just bullying Chinese. There are a LOT of Chinese in the U.S., and there have been for a very long time. As a whole they aren't being denied, there's just so many of them trying to immigrate. You also have to remember that there are a lot of them that really do try to lie and overstay their visa. As an immigration officer, you have to use your best judgement to prevent such issues, and that's not something you can get down to an accurate science. The U.S. is also far from the only country that Chinese have issues getting into, it's just understandably more difficult.
Finally, I just want to point out that plenty of Chinese that DON'T have family in the U.S. have no trouble traveling there for short times, even for work. There are a lot of factors involved, but the most important ones are that you can show you have money and/or a stable job, and that you have a reason to return to China. If you give them any reason to question those things, or if you're unclear about what exactly your purpose is, don't be surprised if you get denied. It's unfortunate, but consider all of the factors at play before you get too up into arms over the issue.
Either way, the situation with Jim is quite unfortunate. He may have done everything he was supposed to and had bad luck. It's sad, but it seems the entire thing wasn't planned very well. He may not have been able to provide proof of his reasoning before knowing he could compete in America, BUT he very well could have begun the process long before so that if he qualified he'd be more than ready. You don't need all of your documents to start scheduling appointments and preparing. Regardless of the preparation, it's still unfortunate, but you have to remember why this sort of thing happens. A young Chinese male going to the U.S. for a short term to essentially play video games isn't exactly the most solid of reasons for visiting, and isn't exactly the most convincing argument to an immigration officer, whether your family is wealthy or not. Don't forget, plenty of people have tried to cheat the system before (especially Chinese). Blame them, not the ones who are responsible for preventing it.
Anyway I'm not claiming to be an expert on visa-related issues with the U.S., but I have lived in China for a hell of a lot longer than a year, I have many friends here who have gone through these experiences, and I have a background in areas far more valuable than a degree in Chinese from the U.S. (not to be condescending, but a student who's learned even just 6 months of Chinese in China will be way ahead of a recent graduate with a Chinese degree from the U.S.), and these are all things I've witnessed and dealt with quite often (they aren't just random thoughts). Whether there are other factors at play or not is arguable for sure, but I can guarantee you that the things I mentioned here are absolutely relevant, and it seems most people aren't taking them into consideration when they really need to. You have to look at the bigger picture, not just what you see from the relatively isolated world of StarCraft 2.
Regardless, I hope everything works out for the Chinese players and I'd absolutely love to see them succeed. These unfortunate incidents will happen, and maybe it is best to move WCS America to a more neutral location, but we mustn't forget to look at the bigger picture when these things happen. Otherwise we're only moving further away from legitimizing this sort of thing in the eyes of the rest of the world.
On July 26 2013 18:36 Orlandu wrote: I had refrained from posting in this thread because I assumed most people already understood some of the most obvious factors related to this case, but apparently I was wrong, so I want to point out some things that really should be taken into consideration.
Getting a visa into the U.S. is difficult for a lot of reasons, and it's not because the U.S. is some "big, bad wolf" trying to eat the dreams of young Chinese. The first and foremost reason why it's so difficult for Chinese to get a visa to the U.S. is because of the insanely high volume of people from China trying to go to the U.S. every single day. You wonder why they had to wait in line for almost 3 hours? Go check out the nearest U.S. consulate when you're in China. See how many people are out there (coincidentally, I was at the one in Guangzhou 2 days ago. Wasn't pretty.). Whether they love it or hate it, for rational reasons or irrational reasons, mainland Chinese are absolutely obsessed with the U.S., and it's not hard to see once you've spent any significant time living here. For many Chinese, it's their ultimate dream to go to the U.S., whether it be for studying, traveling, or whatever. There are a lot of factors at play, but the end result is you have an insanely high volume of Chinese trying to immigrate or get visas every day. It's unfortunate, but some people have to get denied. When there are so many applying, sometimes the reasons may seem a bit arbitrary, sure. But there aren't a lot of alternatives, and one has to remember, at the end of the day, these officers have to do what's best for their country. To expect them not to act in such a way would be quite ignorant, and in some cases even hypocritical, I think.
If you doubt any of the above, do a little experiment. Go check out other consulates in China, and see what they're like. Then go back to the U.S. consulate. The differences are extraordinary. Just for reference, the other day I visited 3 separate consulates (Indian, Russian, and U.S.) in the same day, and the Indian and Russian ones were essentially empty. Relatively small, inside office buildings. The U.S. one however was huge, and yet there were still Chinese lined up all the way around the block, in two separate lines. That should help put things in perspective a bit.
It's also quite ignorant to assume that this is simply because of politics, or that the U.S. is just bullying Chinese. There are a LOT of Chinese in the U.S., and there have been for a very long time. As a whole they aren't being denied, there's just so many of them trying to immigrate. You also have to remember that there are a lot of them that really do try to lie and overstay their visa. As an immigration officer, you have to use your best judgement to prevent such issues, and that's not something you can get down to an accurate science. The U.S. is also far from the only country that Chinese have issues getting into, it's just understandably more difficult.
Finally, I just want to point out that plenty of Chinese that DON'T have family in the U.S. have no trouble traveling there for short times, even for work. There are a lot of factors involved, but the most important ones are that you can show you have money and/or a stable job, and that you have a reason to return to China. If you give them any reason to question those things, or if you're unclear about what exactly your purpose is, don't be surprised if you get denied. It's unfortunate, but consider all of the factors at play before you get too up into arms over the issue.
Either way, the situation with Jim is quite unfortunate. He may have done everything he was supposed to and had bad luck. It's sad, but it seems the entire thing wasn't planned very well. He may not have been able to provide proof of his reasoning before knowing he could compete in America, BUT he very well could have begun the process long before so that if he qualified he'd be more than ready. You don't need all of your documents to start scheduling appointments and preparing. Regardless of the preparation, it's still unfortunate, but you have to remember why this sort of thing happens. A young Chinese male going to the U.S. for a short term to essentially play video games isn't exactly the most solid of reasons for visiting, and isn't exactly the most convincing argument to an immigration officer, whether your family is wealthy or not. Don't forget, plenty of people have tried to cheat the system before (especially Chinese). Blame them, not the ones who are responsible for preventing it.
Anyway I'm not claiming to be an expert on visa-related issues with the U.S., but I have lived in China for a hell of a lot longer than a year, I have many friends here who have gone through these experiences, and I have a background in areas far more valuable than a degree in Chinese from the U.S. (not to be condescending, but a student who's learned even just 6 months of Chinese in China will be way ahead of a recent graduate with a Chinese degree from the U.S.), and these are all things I've witnessed and dealt with quite often (they aren't just random thoughts). Whether there are other factors at play or not is arguable for sure, but I can guarantee you that the things I mentioned here are absolutely relevant, and it seems most people aren't taking them into consideration when they really need to. You have to look at the bigger picture, not just what you see from the relatively isolated world of StarCraft 2.
Regardless, I hope everything works out for the Chinese players and I'd absolutely love to see them succeed. These unfortunate incidents will happen, and maybe it is best to move WCS America to a more neutral location, but we mustn't forget to look at the bigger picture when these things happen. Otherwise we're only moving further away from legitimizing this sort of thing in the eyes of the rest of the world.
A really nice thought out post explaining the situation to those unfamiliar. 5/5 eSports.
On July 26 2013 18:36 Orlandu wrote: I had refrained from posting in this thread because I assumed most people already understood some of the most obvious factors related to this case, but apparently I was wrong, so I want to point out some things that really should be taken into consideration.
Getting a visa into the U.S. is difficult for a lot of reasons, and it's not because the U.S. is some "big, bad wolf" trying to eat the dreams of young Chinese. The first and foremost reason why it's so difficult for Chinese to get a visa to the U.S. is because of the insanely high volume of people from China trying to go to the U.S. every single day. You wonder why they had to wait in line for almost 3 hours? Go check out the nearest U.S. consulate when you're in China. See how many people are out there (coincidentally, I was at the one in Guangzhou 2 days ago. Wasn't pretty.). Whether they love it or hate it, for rational reasons or irrational reasons, mainland Chinese are absolutely obsessed with the U.S., and it's not hard to see once you've spent any significant time living here. For many Chinese, it's their ultimate dream to go to the U.S., whether it be for studying, traveling, or whatever. There are a lot of factors at play, but the end result is you have an insanely high volume of Chinese trying to immigrate or get visas every day. It's unfortunate, but some people have to get denied. When there are so many applying, sometimes the reasons may seem a bit arbitrary, sure. But there aren't a lot of alternatives, and one has to remember, at the end of the day, these officers have to do what's best for their country. To expect them not to act in such a way would be quite ignorant, and in some cases even hypocritical, I think.
If you doubt any of the above, do a little experiment. Go check out other consulates in China, and see what they're like. Then go back to the U.S. consulate. The differences are extraordinary. Just for reference, the other day I visited 3 separate consulates (Indian, Russian, and U.S.) in the same day, and the Indian and Russian ones were essentially empty. Relatively small, inside office buildings. The U.S. one however was huge, and yet there were still Chinese lined up all the way around the block, in two separate lines. That should help put things in perspective a bit.
It's also quite ignorant to assume that this is simply because of politics, or that the U.S. is just bullying Chinese. There are a LOT of Chinese in the U.S., and there have been for a very long time. As a whole they aren't being denied, there's just so many of them trying to immigrate. You also have to remember that there are a lot of them that really do try to lie and overstay their visa. As an immigration officer, you have to use your best judgement to prevent such issues, and that's not something you can get down to an accurate science. The U.S. is also far from the only country that Chinese have issues getting into, it's just understandably more difficult.
Finally, I just want to point out that plenty of Chinese that DON'T have family in the U.S. have no trouble traveling there for short times, even for work. There are a lot of factors involved, but the most important ones are that you can show you have money and/or a stable job, and that you have a reason to return to China. If you give them any reason to question those things, or if you're unclear about what exactly your purpose is, don't be surprised if you get denied. It's unfortunate, but consider all of the factors at play before you get too up into arms over the issue.
Either way, the situation with Jim is quite unfortunate. He may have done everything he was supposed to and had bad luck. It's sad, but it seems the entire thing wasn't planned very well. He may not have been able to provide proof of his reasoning before knowing he could compete in America, BUT he very well could have begun the process long before so that if he qualified he'd be more than ready. You don't need all of your documents to start scheduling appointments and preparing. Regardless of the preparation, it's still unfortunate, but you have to remember why this sort of thing happens. A young Chinese male going to the U.S. for a short term to essentially play video games isn't exactly the most solid of reasons for visiting, and isn't exactly the most convincing argument to an immigration officer, whether your family is wealthy or not. Don't forget, plenty of people have tried to cheat the system before (especially Chinese). Blame them, not the ones who are responsible for preventing it.
Anyway I'm not claiming to be an expert on visa-related issues with the U.S., but I have lived in China for a hell of a lot longer than a year, I have many friends here who have gone through these experiences, and I have a background in areas far more valuable than a degree in Chinese from the U.S. (not to be condescending, but a student who's learned even just 6 months of Chinese in China will be way ahead of a recent graduate with a Chinese degree from the U.S.), and these are all things I've witnessed and dealt with quite often (they aren't just random thoughts). Whether there are other factors at play or not is arguable for sure, but I can guarantee you that the things I mentioned here are absolutely relevant, and it seems most people aren't taking them into consideration when they really need to. You have to look at the bigger picture, not just what you see from the relatively isolated world of StarCraft 2.
Regardless, I hope everything works out for the Chinese players and I'd absolutely love to see them succeed. These unfortunate incidents will happen, and maybe it is best to move WCS America to a more neutral location, but we mustn't forget to look at the bigger picture when these things happen. Otherwise we're only moving further away from legitimizing this sort of thing in the eyes of the rest of the world.
But shouldn't Jim, unlike the vast majority of the Chinese applying for visa, have the backing of Activision / Blizzard, a huge American company?
And depending on what you understand under "cheating", I certainly won't blame the Chinese for trying to cheat the system (though they are at fault). Same like I won't blame companies for abusing tax loopholes, but rather for the government of not fixing the situation.
On July 26 2013 18:36 Orlandu wrote: I had refrained from posting in this thread because I assumed most people already understood some of the most obvious factors related to this case, but apparently I was wrong, so I want to point out some things that really should be taken into consideration.
Getting a visa into the U.S. is difficult for a lot of reasons, and it's not because the U.S. is some "big, bad wolf" trying to eat the dreams of young Chinese. The first and foremost reason why it's so difficult for Chinese to get a visa to the U.S. is because of the insanely high volume of people from China trying to go to the U.S. every single day. You wonder why they had to wait in line for almost 3 hours? Go check out the nearest U.S. consulate when you're in China. See how many people are out there (coincidentally, I was at the one in Guangzhou 2 days ago. Wasn't pretty.). Whether they love it or hate it, for rational reasons or irrational reasons, mainland Chinese are absolutely obsessed with the U.S., and it's not hard to see once you've spent any significant time living here. For many Chinese, it's their ultimate dream to go to the U.S., whether it be for studying, traveling, or whatever. There are a lot of factors at play, but the end result is you have an insanely high volume of Chinese trying to immigrate or get visas every day. It's unfortunate, but some people have to get denied. When there are so many applying, sometimes the reasons may seem a bit arbitrary, sure. But there aren't a lot of alternatives, and one has to remember, at the end of the day, these officers have to do what's best for their country. To expect them not to act in such a way would be quite ignorant, and in some cases even hypocritical, I think.
If you doubt any of the above, do a little experiment. Go check out other consulates in China, and see what they're like. Then go back to the U.S. consulate. The differences are extraordinary. Just for reference, the other day I visited 3 separate consulates (Indian, Russian, and U.S.) in the same day, and the Indian and Russian ones were essentially empty. Relatively small, inside office buildings. The U.S. one however was huge, and yet there were still Chinese lined up all the way around the block, in two separate lines. That should help put things in perspective a bit.
It's also quite ignorant to assume that this is simply because of politics, or that the U.S. is just bullying Chinese. There are a LOT of Chinese in the U.S., and there have been for a very long time. As a whole they aren't being denied, there's just so many of them trying to immigrate. You also have to remember that there are a lot of them that really do try to lie and overstay their visa. As an immigration officer, you have to use your best judgement to prevent such issues, and that's not something you can get down to an accurate science. The U.S. is also far from the only country that Chinese have issues getting into, it's just understandably more difficult.
Finally, I just want to point out that plenty of Chinese that DON'T have family in the U.S. have no trouble traveling there for short times, even for work. There are a lot of factors involved, but the most important ones are that you can show you have money and/or a stable job, and that you have a reason to return to China. If you give them any reason to question those things, or if you're unclear about what exactly your purpose is, don't be surprised if you get denied. It's unfortunate, but consider all of the factors at play before you get too up into arms over the issue.
Either way, the situation with Jim is quite unfortunate. He may have done everything he was supposed to and had bad luck. It's sad, but it seems the entire thing wasn't planned very well. He may not have been able to provide proof of his reasoning before knowing he could compete in America, BUT he very well could have begun the process long before so that if he qualified he'd be more than ready. You don't need all of your documents to start scheduling appointments and preparing. Regardless of the preparation, it's still unfortunate, but you have to remember why this sort of thing happens. A young Chinese male going to the U.S. for a short term to essentially play video games isn't exactly the most solid of reasons for visiting, and isn't exactly the most convincing argument to an immigration officer, whether your family is wealthy or not. Don't forget, plenty of people have tried to cheat the system before (especially Chinese). Blame them, not the ones who are responsible for preventing it.
Anyway I'm not claiming to be an expert on visa-related issues with the U.S., but I have lived in China for a hell of a lot longer than a year, I have many friends here who have gone through these experiences, and I have a background in areas far more valuable than a degree in Chinese from the U.S. (not to be condescending, but a student who's learned even just 6 months of Chinese in China will be way ahead of a recent graduate with a Chinese degree from the U.S.), and these are all things I've witnessed and dealt with quite often (they aren't just random thoughts). Whether there are other factors at play or not is arguable for sure, but I can guarantee you that the things I mentioned here are absolutely relevant, and it seems most people aren't taking them into consideration when they really need to. You have to look at the bigger picture, not just what you see from the relatively isolated world of StarCraft 2.
Regardless, I hope everything works out for the Chinese players and I'd absolutely love to see them succeed. These unfortunate incidents will happen, and maybe it is best to move WCS America to a more neutral location, but we mustn't forget to look at the bigger picture when these things happen. Otherwise we're only moving further away from legitimizing this sort of thing in the eyes of the rest of the world.
But shouldn't Jim, unlike the vast majority of the Chinese applying for visa, have the backing of Activision / Blizzard, a huge American company?
And depending on what you understand under "cheating", I certainly won't blame the Chinese for trying to cheat the system (though they are at fault). Same like I won't blame companies for abusing tax loopholes, but rather for the government of not fixing the situation.
I think there's a big difference between the two situations you mention - cheating the immigration system here involves lying, while abusing a tax loophole is taking advantage of someone's mistake. Personally I think that's the difference between taking a 5 dollar bill from someone else versus picking it up off the floor.
More on topic, even if Jim has the backing of Activision/Blizzard, he may still have difficulties getting the visa on such short notice. I think expecting Blizzard to take charge of sponsoring people is unreasonable - it may help when entering the US, but then people will expect Blizzard's help when getting visas to the season finals in Europe, and so on. There are plenty of competitions in the world that count on the entrant to take care of transportation and visas.
Also, not to be a conspiracy theorist but everyone seems to assume that Blizzard really wants to help Jim and Macsed make it to the WCS Ro16. Not to say that they'd actually prevent them from competing, but given how much flak Blizzard has gotten for not having enough NA players in WCS NA, I'm sure they wouldn't miss the Chinese players the way they might miss Hero or something.
On July 26 2013 18:36 Orlandu wrote: I had refrained from posting in this thread because I assumed most people already understood some of the most obvious factors related to this case, but apparently I was wrong, so I want to point out some things that really should be taken into consideration.
Getting a visa into the U.S. is difficult for a lot of reasons, and it's not because the U.S. is some "big, bad wolf" trying to eat the dreams of young Chinese. The first and foremost reason why it's so difficult for Chinese to get a visa to the U.S. is because of the insanely high volume of people from China trying to go to the U.S. every single day. You wonder why they had to wait in line for almost 3 hours? Go check out the nearest U.S. consulate when you're in China. See how many people are out there (coincidentally, I was at the one in Guangzhou 2 days ago. Wasn't pretty.). Whether they love it or hate it, for rational reasons or irrational reasons, mainland Chinese are absolutely obsessed with the U.S., and it's not hard to see once you've spent any significant time living here. For many Chinese, it's their ultimate dream to go to the U.S., whether it be for studying, traveling, or whatever. There are a lot of factors at play, but the end result is you have an insanely high volume of Chinese trying to immigrate or get visas every day. It's unfortunate, but some people have to get denied. When there are so many applying, sometimes the reasons may seem a bit arbitrary, sure. But there aren't a lot of alternatives, and one has to remember, at the end of the day, these officers have to do what's best for their country. To expect them not to act in such a way would be quite ignorant, and in some cases even hypocritical, I think.
If you doubt any of the above, do a little experiment. Go check out other consulates in China, and see what they're like. Then go back to the U.S. consulate. The differences are extraordinary. Just for reference, the other day I visited 3 separate consulates (Indian, Russian, and U.S.) in the same day, and the Indian and Russian ones were essentially empty. Relatively small, inside office buildings. The U.S. one however was huge, and yet there were still Chinese lined up all the way around the block, in two separate lines. That should help put things in perspective a bit.
It's also quite ignorant to assume that this is simply because of politics, or that the U.S. is just bullying Chinese. There are a LOT of Chinese in the U.S., and there have been for a very long time. As a whole they aren't being denied, there's just so many of them trying to immigrate. You also have to remember that there are a lot of them that really do try to lie and overstay their visa. As an immigration officer, you have to use your best judgement to prevent such issues, and that's not something you can get down to an accurate science. The U.S. is also far from the only country that Chinese have issues getting into, it's just understandably more difficult.
Finally, I just want to point out that plenty of Chinese that DON'T have family in the U.S. have no trouble traveling there for short times, even for work. There are a lot of factors involved, but the most important ones are that you can show you have money and/or a stable job, and that you have a reason to return to China. If you give them any reason to question those things, or if you're unclear about what exactly your purpose is, don't be surprised if you get denied. It's unfortunate, but consider all of the factors at play before you get too up into arms over the issue.
Either way, the situation with Jim is quite unfortunate. He may have done everything he was supposed to and had bad luck. It's sad, but it seems the entire thing wasn't planned very well. He may not have been able to provide proof of his reasoning before knowing he could compete in America, BUT he very well could have begun the process long before so that if he qualified he'd be more than ready. You don't need all of your documents to start scheduling appointments and preparing. Regardless of the preparation, it's still unfortunate, but you have to remember why this sort of thing happens. A young Chinese male going to the U.S. for a short term to essentially play video games isn't exactly the most solid of reasons for visiting, and isn't exactly the most convincing argument to an immigration officer, whether your family is wealthy or not. Don't forget, plenty of people have tried to cheat the system before (especially Chinese). Blame them, not the ones who are responsible for preventing it.
Anyway I'm not claiming to be an expert on visa-related issues with the U.S., but I have lived in China for a hell of a lot longer than a year, I have many friends here who have gone through these experiences, and I have a background in areas far more valuable than a degree in Chinese from the U.S. (not to be condescending, but a student who's learned even just 6 months of Chinese in China will be way ahead of a recent graduate with a Chinese degree from the U.S.), and these are all things I've witnessed and dealt with quite often (they aren't just random thoughts). Whether there are other factors at play or not is arguable for sure, but I can guarantee you that the things I mentioned here are absolutely relevant, and it seems most people aren't taking them into consideration when they really need to. You have to look at the bigger picture, not just what you see from the relatively isolated world of StarCraft 2.
Regardless, I hope everything works out for the Chinese players and I'd absolutely love to see them succeed. These unfortunate incidents will happen, and maybe it is best to move WCS America to a more neutral location, but we mustn't forget to look at the bigger picture when these things happen. Otherwise we're only moving further away from legitimizing this sort of thing in the eyes of the rest of the world.
But shouldn't Jim, unlike the vast majority of the Chinese applying for visa, have the backing of Activision / Blizzard, a huge American company?
And depending on what you understand under "cheating", I certainly won't blame the Chinese for trying to cheat the system (though they are at fault). Same like I won't blame companies for abusing tax loopholes, but rather for the government of not fixing the situation.
They have a invite from Blizzard, but they don't work for them, which makes it iffy. Also, Blizzard is a TINY company as these things go. They are just more relevant to us because they make video games and we play them. So when Blizzard saying "we don't REALLY know them, but they are good at this game and we'd like them over for a event" it is not terribly impressive to a Visa officer.
On July 26 2013 18:36 Orlandu wrote: I had refrained from posting in this thread because I assumed most people already understood some of the most obvious factors related to this case, but apparently I was wrong, so I want to point out some things that really should be taken into consideration.
Getting a visa into the U.S. is difficult for a lot of reasons, and it's not because the U.S. is some "big, bad wolf" trying to eat the dreams of young Chinese. The first and foremost reason why it's so difficult for Chinese to get a visa to the U.S. is because of the insanely high volume of people from China trying to go to the U.S. every single day. You wonder why they had to wait in line for almost 3 hours? Go check out the nearest U.S. consulate when you're in China. See how many people are out there (coincidentally, I was at the one in Guangzhou 2 days ago. Wasn't pretty.). Whether they love it or hate it, for rational reasons or irrational reasons, mainland Chinese are absolutely obsessed with the U.S., and it's not hard to see once you've spent any significant time living here. For many Chinese, it's their ultimate dream to go to the U.S., whether it be for studying, traveling, or whatever. There are a lot of factors at play, but the end result is you have an insanely high volume of Chinese trying to immigrate or get visas every day. It's unfortunate, but some people have to get denied. When there are so many applying, sometimes the reasons may seem a bit arbitrary, sure. But there aren't a lot of alternatives, and one has to remember, at the end of the day, these officers have to do what's best for their country. To expect them not to act in such a way would be quite ignorant, and in some cases even hypocritical, I think.
If you doubt any of the above, do a little experiment. Go check out other consulates in China, and see what they're like. Then go back to the U.S. consulate. The differences are extraordinary. Just for reference, the other day I visited 3 separate consulates (Indian, Russian, and U.S.) in the same day, and the Indian and Russian ones were essentially empty. Relatively small, inside office buildings. The U.S. one however was huge, and yet there were still Chinese lined up all the way around the block, in two separate lines. That should help put things in perspective a bit.
It's also quite ignorant to assume that this is simply because of politics, or that the U.S. is just bullying Chinese. There are a LOT of Chinese in the U.S., and there have been for a very long time. As a whole they aren't being denied, there's just so many of them trying to immigrate. You also have to remember that there are a lot of them that really do try to lie and overstay their visa. As an immigration officer, you have to use your best judgement to prevent such issues, and that's not something you can get down to an accurate science. The U.S. is also far from the only country that Chinese have issues getting into, it's just understandably more difficult.
Finally, I just want to point out that plenty of Chinese that DON'T have family in the U.S. have no trouble traveling there for short times, even for work. There are a lot of factors involved, but the most important ones are that you can show you have money and/or a stable job, and that you have a reason to return to China. If you give them any reason to question those things, or if you're unclear about what exactly your purpose is, don't be surprised if you get denied. It's unfortunate, but consider all of the factors at play before you get too up into arms over the issue.
Either way, the situation with Jim is quite unfortunate. He may have done everything he was supposed to and had bad luck. It's sad, but it seems the entire thing wasn't planned very well. He may not have been able to provide proof of his reasoning before knowing he could compete in America, BUT he very well could have begun the process long before so that if he qualified he'd be more than ready. You don't need all of your documents to start scheduling appointments and preparing. Regardless of the preparation, it's still unfortunate, but you have to remember why this sort of thing happens. A young Chinese male going to the U.S. for a short term to essentially play video games isn't exactly the most solid of reasons for visiting, and isn't exactly the most convincing argument to an immigration officer, whether your family is wealthy or not. Don't forget, plenty of people have tried to cheat the system before (especially Chinese). Blame them, not the ones who are responsible for preventing it.
Anyway I'm not claiming to be an expert on visa-related issues with the U.S., but I have lived in China for a hell of a lot longer than a year, I have many friends here who have gone through these experiences, and I have a background in areas far more valuable than a degree in Chinese from the U.S. (not to be condescending, but a student who's learned even just 6 months of Chinese in China will be way ahead of a recent graduate with a Chinese degree from the U.S.), and these are all things I've witnessed and dealt with quite often (they aren't just random thoughts). Whether there are other factors at play or not is arguable for sure, but I can guarantee you that the things I mentioned here are absolutely relevant, and it seems most people aren't taking them into consideration when they really need to. You have to look at the bigger picture, not just what you see from the relatively isolated world of StarCraft 2.
Regardless, I hope everything works out for the Chinese players and I'd absolutely love to see them succeed. These unfortunate incidents will happen, and maybe it is best to move WCS America to a more neutral location, but we mustn't forget to look at the bigger picture when these things happen. Otherwise we're only moving further away from legitimizing this sort of thing in the eyes of the rest of the world.
Thank you!!
You did my work. As i read the thread, i thought that i had to write this wall of text...
It is NOT ALWAYS the bad and asshole goverments on the one side and the poor and rightousness people on the other side. The big picture is way more complex in most cases.
I dont care about chinese players because of they are chinese, but i feel so bad for jim. I absolutly deserves his spot! But Visa issues even come out for ukraine players in EU sometimes....very sad for the players and esports.
Maybe Blizzard can do something...given they want to do something...
why not make reservations for plane ticket and apply for visa 8 months in advance?
if you dont make it into round of 16, then just cancel the plane ticket?
Read the thread. You just can't show up at the US embassy "Hi I may qualify in 6 month for a video game competition in the US, give me a visa pretty please"
...
what? why cant you apply for a visa 6 months in advance to go sightseeing in US?
it doesnt matter whether you make it into the round of 16 or not, apply for Visa anyway
simply say," I have bought tickets for a trip to US in 8 months, for sightseeing and meeting friends, I want to apply for a non-immigrant visa."
only time they reject someone from sightseeing, if if you have a criminal record or some other stuff like that
Why cant someone just apply for a visa to visit friends in US?
The first thing that one needs to set before even attempting to go to the States is to have a purpose for going there in the first place. That purpose has to be extremely clear at the outset and should answer these four basic questions:
1. What are you going to do in the US?
meet my friends, and compete in a tournament for a few days/week
2. How long will you be staying there?
few days/week
3. Who is paying for your expenses? myself and my team company that I represent
4. And most importantly, When are you coming back?
after a few days/week on "etc etc date"
So basically lie your ass off... Edit: you changed your post cause there was nothing about playing in a tournament first but just outright lying your are going only to sightsee.
Yes, because lieing to USCIS is a GREAT idea. I am sure they will let you back in for Season 3. "Hey guys, going sight seeing again. What? This mouse and keyboard? That's for sight seeing. Wait, you want do you mean I have to come with you? Where?"
I am sure that will work out.
Its not lying just vacation, you cant go to US for vacation?
and okay, if you want to tell them you play video games tournament, whats so bad about that? you think they will deny you because you told them you are going to US for a videogame tournament?
the main reason they deny people is if they have criminal records or seem like they want to say in US forever
Many people travel to EVOLUTION video game tournament each year in US, i dont know exactly what they tell the US consulars, but they are going for a video game tournament, and they get their visa accepted (which they apply for like atleast 8 months in advance)
Once again, you don't know what you are talking about. There are people who are better informed and the difficulties of traveling form China who have said the process takes months and you can't apply until you have evidence as to what you are doing. He can't say "I'm going sightseeing", they will just deny in visa request. Stop posting when you don't know what your talking about.
Dude do you know what you are talking about? you think its hard to get a non-immigrant visa for traveling purpose if you do it 8 months in advance?
its only hard if you want till the last minute
so basically you are saying noone can go to US?
yes the process can take months, that why you start very early, no matter if you are in top 16 or not, start applying early, just say you are going to video game tournament
No I am saying people from CHINA can't come to the US whenever they please. They need to have a reason and it can't be "sight seeing". Read the read, people from China will confirm this. The US has very poor relations with China and they don't let anyone come over for whatever reason they want.
Its nothing to do the poor relationship, if the relationship does count, why US citizens can easliy grant China Visa, or just the "poor relationship" comes from one side~~LOL
It's not a hard concept at all...............
one of the reasons is poor relationship.. For instance, one of my passports is Canadian and I can travel to 100+ countries and stay for 90 days without the need of a VISA, because all those countries are in good standings with Canada. China isn't one of them is obviously due to not so great political relations. And yes, it may be harder to get an US VISA from China because of the sheer number of people who would just land in the US and not leave. <- causes the relationship to worsen as well.
It's like the land border between the US and Mexico. When you drive into Mexico from the US, there's literally no guards there, you don't even have to stop for inspection, but when you return to the US, you get frisked.
Why? Mexico doesn't give a damn if you wanna enter, because ordinary murrican citizens wouldn't wanna smuggle there anyways. And the US? Mexicans try to smuggle to the US all the time, thus why it's harder to get into.
On July 26 2013 18:36 Orlandu wrote: I had refrained from posting in this thread because I assumed most people already understood some of the most obvious factors related to this case, but apparently I was wrong, so I want to point out some things that really should be taken into consideration.
Getting a visa into the U.S. is difficult for a lot of reasons, and it's not because the U.S. is some "big, bad wolf" trying to eat the dreams of young Chinese. The first and foremost reason why it's so difficult for Chinese to get a visa to the U.S. is because of the insanely high volume of people from China trying to go to the U.S. every single day. You wonder why they had to wait in line for almost 3 hours? Go check out the nearest U.S. consulate when you're in China. See how many people are out there (coincidentally, I was at the one in Guangzhou 2 days ago. Wasn't pretty.). Whether they love it or hate it, for rational reasons or irrational reasons, mainland Chinese are absolutely obsessed with the U.S., and it's not hard to see once you've spent any significant time living here. For many Chinese, it's their ultimate dream to go to the U.S., whether it be for studying, traveling, or whatever. There are a lot of factors at play, but the end result is you have an insanely high volume of Chinese trying to immigrate or get visas every day. It's unfortunate, but some people have to get denied. When there are so many applying, sometimes the reasons may seem a bit arbitrary, sure. But there aren't a lot of alternatives, and one has to remember, at the end of the day, these officers have to do what's best for their country. To expect them not to act in such a way would be quite ignorant, and in some cases even hypocritical, I think.
If you doubt any of the above, do a little experiment. Go check out other consulates in China, and see what they're like. Then go back to the U.S. consulate. The differences are extraordinary. Just for reference, the other day I visited 3 separate consulates (Indian, Russian, and U.S.) in the same day, and the Indian and Russian ones were essentially empty. Relatively small, inside office buildings. The U.S. one however was huge, and yet there were still Chinese lined up all the way around the block, in two separate lines. That should help put things in perspective a bit.
It's also quite ignorant to assume that this is simply because of politics, or that the U.S. is just bullying Chinese. There are a LOT of Chinese in the U.S., and there have been for a very long time. As a whole they aren't being denied, there's just so many of them trying to immigrate. You also have to remember that there are a lot of them that really do try to lie and overstay their visa. As an immigration officer, you have to use your best judgement to prevent such issues, and that's not something you can get down to an accurate science. The U.S. is also far from the only country that Chinese have issues getting into, it's just understandably more difficult.
Finally, I just want to point out that plenty of Chinese that DON'T have family in the U.S. have no trouble traveling there for short times, even for work. There are a lot of factors involved, but the most important ones are that you can show you have money and/or a stable job, and that you have a reason to return to China. If you give them any reason to question those things, or if you're unclear about what exactly your purpose is, don't be surprised if you get denied. It's unfortunate, but consider all of the factors at play before you get too up into arms over the issue.
Either way, the situation with Jim is quite unfortunate. He may have done everything he was supposed to and had bad luck. It's sad, but it seems the entire thing wasn't planned very well. He may not have been able to provide proof of his reasoning before knowing he could compete in America, BUT he very well could have begun the process long before so that if he qualified he'd be more than ready. You don't need all of your documents to start scheduling appointments and preparing. Regardless of the preparation, it's still unfortunate, but you have to remember why this sort of thing happens. A young Chinese male going to the U.S. for a short term to essentially play video games isn't exactly the most solid of reasons for visiting, and isn't exactly the most convincing argument to an immigration officer, whether your family is wealthy or not. Don't forget, plenty of people have tried to cheat the system before (especially Chinese). Blame them, not the ones who are responsible for preventing it.
Anyway I'm not claiming to be an expert on visa-related issues with the U.S., but I have lived in China for a hell of a lot longer than a year, I have many friends here who have gone through these experiences, and I have a background in areas far more valuable than a degree in Chinese from the U.S. (not to be condescending, but a student who's learned even just 6 months of Chinese in China will be way ahead of a recent graduate with a Chinese degree from the U.S.), and these are all things I've witnessed and dealt with quite often (they aren't just random thoughts). Whether there are other factors at play or not is arguable for sure, but I can guarantee you that the things I mentioned here are absolutely relevant, and it seems most people aren't taking them into consideration when they really need to. You have to look at the bigger picture, not just what you see from the relatively isolated world of StarCraft 2.
Regardless, I hope everything works out for the Chinese players and I'd absolutely love to see them succeed. These unfortunate incidents will happen, and maybe it is best to move WCS America to a more neutral location, but we mustn't forget to look at the bigger picture when these things happen. Otherwise we're only moving further away from legitimizing this sort of thing in the eyes of the rest of the world.
But shouldn't Jim, unlike the vast majority of the Chinese applying for visa, have the backing of Activision / Blizzard, a huge American company?
Did you even read the original article? It clearly said there was something wrong with the invitation from Blizzard..................
I know it would never happen and to be honest this problem is not just a US thing, but it seems like a pretty good reason to host wcs America elsewhere.
On July 26 2013 21:19 _SpiRaL_ wrote: I know it would never happen and to be honest this problem is not just a US thing, but it seems like a pretty good reason to host wcs America elsewhere.
well, Riot has been pretty successful with pushing VISA for LoL players..
On July 26 2013 21:19 _SpiRaL_ wrote: I know it would never happen and to be honest this problem is not just a US thing, but it seems like a pretty good reason to host wcs America elsewhere.
well, Riot has been pretty successful with pushing VISA for LoL players..
Yes, Blizzard, I am staring at you!
There are like 15 pages in this thread explaining why that is not possible for Blizzard unless they want to employ every player in SC2. And there was nothing wrong with the invitation from Blizzard. Blizzard had NOTHING to do with this.
On July 26 2013 21:19 _SpiRaL_ wrote: I know it would never happen and to be honest this problem is not just a US thing, but it seems like a pretty good reason to host wcs America elsewhere.
well, Riot has been pretty successful with pushing VISA for LoL players..
Yes, Blizzard, I am staring at you!
I'm getting tired of posting this, but here goes nothing: the visa Riot is getting for LoL players is a work visa that allows athletes to work (play) for an American-based organization. It works for Riot since all the LCS teams are essentially employed by Riot and stay in the US for months at a time.
This kind of visa would only work for Blizzard if 1. they wanted to start paying all the player's salaries and 2. wanted all the players in WCS AM to live in the US permanently. It has nothing to do with Jim not being able to get a visa.
On July 25 2013 19:12 MajOr wrote: it sucks but maybe people should have their documents ready before playing a tournament that u have to travel to X place at X time?
in other note what happens to macseds and jim spots, does blizzard just give 2 forfeits or me and puck advance by being 3rd places in respective groups
i hope 2nd one :D
And you can get a visa with a reason that you might be coming to play some computer game if you first clear preliminary stage for the tournament. Yeah, I also think that it's that easy to get a visa, especially if you are a Chinese.
And no, you aren't getting the 2nd place if Blizzard has any part of their brains still working. It's the same situation as with Violet last season. Seriously this post is just stupid and a kind of disgusting.
Agreed so much, the ignorance in his post astounds and disgusts me. The Chinese-US visa process from what I've heard is a pain the butt and I have had couple friends who have had non-stop issues dealing with teaching over in China and their visas so it can be a real chore, especially as you brought up with the saying "Ya... i need a visa to leave China so I can play a video game"
On July 26 2013 18:36 Orlandu wrote: Finally, I just want to point out that plenty of Chinese that DON'T have family in the U.S. have no trouble traveling there for short times, even for work. There are a lot of factors involved, but the most important ones are that you can show you have money and/or a stable job, and that you have a reason to return to China. If you give them any reason to question those things, or if you're unclear about what exactly your purpose is, don't be surprised if you get denied. It's unfortunate, but consider all of the factors at play before you get too up into arms over the issue.
Ah, good ole American Xenophobia. Isn't this the reason why we're building higher border fences at the Mexican border and trying to weed out any illegal immigrant hoping to clean our restrooms and pick our fruits?
It's the American way to look at a teenage kid, not even old enough to smoke or drink legally, asking to work in the US for a weekend tournament, and think, "Hmm... do I want to risk this kid staying in the US long term, playing SC2, and taking the jobs of hard working American SC2 players? I mean, I know that he can't actually get his tournament winnings without having a valid visa and all that, so there shouldn't be any reason why he would stay in the US beyond the tournament... But ya never know! Can't take the chance! I mean look at him. He looks nervous. I bet he has something to hide. Nevermind he's 16 and probably doesn't talk to a lot of Americans in his everyday life. He's probably trying to weasel his way into the glory land that is the USA and spend the rest of his life there washing dishes and busing tables."
On July 26 2013 18:36 Orlandu wrote: Finally, I just want to point out that plenty of Chinese that DON'T have family in the U.S. have no trouble traveling there for short times, even for work. There are a lot of factors involved, but the most important ones are that you can show you have money and/or a stable job, and that you have a reason to return to China. If you give them any reason to question those things, or if you're unclear about what exactly your purpose is, don't be surprised if you get denied. It's unfortunate, but consider all of the factors at play before you get too up into arms over the issue.
Ah, good ole American Xenophobia. Isn't this the reason why we're building higher border fences at the Mexican border and trying to weed out any illegal immigrant hoping to clean our restrooms and pick our fruits?
It's the American way to look at a teenage kid, not even old enough to smoke or drink legally, asking to work in the US for a weekend tournament, and think, "Hmm... do I want to risk this kid staying in the US long term, playing SC2, and taking the jobs of hard working American SC2 players? I mean, I know that he can't actually get his tournament winnings without having a valid visa and all that, so there shouldn't be any reason why he would stay in the US beyond the tournament... But ya never know! Can't take the chance! I mean look at him. He looks nervous. I bet he has something to hide. Nevermind he's 16 and probably doesn't talk to a lot of Americans in his everyday life. He's probably trying to weasel his way into the glory land that is the USA and spend the rest of his life there washing dishes and busing tables."
Visa Rejected!
You sound as if you have a very liberal view of how things should work in the world. If you really think that's xenophobia, you badly need to go out into the world and see for yourself what it's like out there (just for reference, if you want to bring up the subject of xenophobia, the U.S. is nowhere close to China regarding that topic). Ideally, you may be right that people should just be allowed to go wherever, but in reality things aren't that simple. What would you suggest, then? That all of the thousands of Chinese trying to go over to the U.S. every single day, many of whom have much better reasons and support for going to the U.S. than a young StarCraft 2 player who doesn't even have a personal guardian guaranteeing responsibility for him if he overstays or breaks the law (Blizzard does NOT count), should all be granted their visas? If only the world could be so simple.
You're confusing xenophobia with something entirely different. It's not the fault of the U.S. immigration officers that some people in the world don't understand that countries simply can't handle the type of massive immigration that so many people in the world expect to be able to do when it comes to the U.S.. You really, really need to live outside of the U.S. for a few years if you truly believe everything you wrote.
EDIT: For the record, if you're really familiar with China as your location might imply, you'd know that despite your sarcasm, that's exactly what many people DO try to do (push the boundaries of the law and/or stay illegally), especially in China, as for many Chinese it's an obsessive dream.
You basically need someone to pay a 'bond' for you to ensure your return from the U.S.
I remember being told it was around 10 million RMB, approx $1.6 million USD in assets and you could pretty much get a tourist VISA in most places in the world for 30 days with a tour group.
This was a few years ago and ppl with 10 milli in China grow on trees now days so I have no idea what it is now.
On July 26 2013 21:19 _SpiRaL_ wrote: I know it would never happen and to be honest this problem is not just a US thing, but it seems like a pretty good reason to host wcs America elsewhere.
well, Riot has been pretty successful with pushing VISA for LoL players..
Yes, Blizzard, I am staring at you!
There are like 15 pages in this thread explaining why that is not possible for Blizzard unless they want to employ every player in SC2. And there was nothing wrong with the invitation from Blizzard. Blizzard had NOTHING to do with this.
straight from the article: "And most unfortunately, because Blizzard's invitation letter problem, the Visa was denied. " "And most unfortunately, because Blizzard's invitation letter problem, the Visa was denied. " "And most unfortunately, because Blizzard's invitation letter problem, the Visa was denied. "
And how is it not possible for Blizzard to do the same? Riot sponsors every team, so why can't Blizzard sponsor the professional teams as well?
On July 26 2013 21:19 _SpiRaL_ wrote: I know it would never happen and to be honest this problem is not just a US thing, but it seems like a pretty good reason to host wcs America elsewhere.
well, Riot has been pretty successful with pushing VISA for LoL players..
Yes, Blizzard, I am staring at you!
I'm getting tired of posting this, but here goes nothing: the visa Riot is getting for LoL players is a work visa that allows athletes to work (play) for an American-based organization. It works for Riot since all the LCS teams are essentially employed by Riot and stay in the US for months at a time.
This kind of visa would only work for Blizzard if 1. they wanted to start paying all the player's salaries and 2. wanted all the players in WCS AM to live in the US permanently. It has nothing to do with Jim not being able to get a visa.
I'm sorry, this is obviously and completely wrong lol.. 1. you don't need to pay all the players' salaries, and 2, you don't need to have the players in WCS AM to live in the US permanently lol
On July 26 2013 21:19 _SpiRaL_ wrote: I know it would never happen and to be honest this problem is not just a US thing, but it seems like a pretty good reason to host wcs America elsewhere.
well, Riot has been pretty successful with pushing VISA for LoL players..
Yes, Blizzard, I am staring at you!
I'm getting tired of posting this, but here goes nothing: the visa Riot is getting for LoL players is a work visa that allows athletes to work (play) for an American-based organization. It works for Riot since all the LCS teams are essentially employed by Riot and stay in the US for months at a time.
This kind of visa would only work for Blizzard if 1. they wanted to start paying all the player's salaries and 2. wanted all the players in WCS AM to live in the US permanently. It has nothing to do with Jim not being able to get a visa.
I'm sorry, this is obviously and completely wrong lol.. 1. you don't need to pay all the players' salaries, and 2, you don't need to have the players in WCS AM to live in the US permanently lol
No, you are 100% wrong:
Here is a list of requirements needed to get the P1 visa Riot players have:
Supporting Documents The Form I-129 must include the following documents:
A written consultation from an appropriate labor organization A copy of the contract with a major U.S. sports league or team or a contract in an individual sport commensurate with international recognition in the sport, if such contracts are normally utilized in the sport An explanation of the event and itinerary
Documentation of at least two of the following: Evidence of having participated to a significant extent in a prior season with a major United States sports league Evidence of having participated to a significant extent in international competition with a national team Evidence of having participated to a significant extent in a prior season for a U.S. college or university in intercollegiate competition A written statement from an official of a major U.S. sports league or an official of the governing body of the sport which details how you or your team is internationally recognized A written statement from a member of the sports media or a recognized expert in the sport which details how you or your team is internationally recognized Evidence that you or your team is ranked, if the sport has international rankings Evidence that you or your team has received a significant honor or award in the sport
You will notice the part where it says "a copy of a contract" is a requirement to get the Visa. Contracts require consideration, or payment, to be valid. This means the players MUST be paid by the major US sports league to receive the Visa. People have already gone over this several times in this thread.
On July 26 2013 21:19 _SpiRaL_ wrote: I know it would never happen and to be honest this problem is not just a US thing, but it seems like a pretty good reason to host wcs America elsewhere.
well, Riot has been pretty successful with pushing VISA for LoL players..
Yes, Blizzard, I am staring at you!
There are like 15 pages in this thread explaining why that is not possible for Blizzard unless they want to employ every player in SC2. And there was nothing wrong with the invitation from Blizzard. Blizzard had NOTHING to do with this.
straight from the article: "And most unfortunately, because Blizzard's invitation letter problem, the Visa was denied. " "And most unfortunately, because Blizzard's invitation letter problem, the Visa was denied. " "And most unfortunately, because Blizzard's invitation letter problem, the Visa was denied. "
And how is it not possible for Blizzard to do the same? Riot sponsors every team, so why can't Blizzard sponsor the professional teams as well?
That isn't Blizzard's fault. I doubt they wrote the invitation letter to meet the specific requirements for every player to get a visa in every country. There could be any number of problems that Blizzard would not be aware of, including it not being dated or being to vague.
On July 26 2013 18:36 Orlandu wrote: I had refrained from posting in this thread because I assumed most people already understood some of the most obvious factors related to this case, but apparently I was wrong, so I want to point out some things that really should be taken into consideration.
Getting a visa into the U.S. is difficult for a lot of reasons, and it's not because the U.S. is some "big, bad wolf" trying to eat the dreams of young Chinese. The first and foremost reason why it's so difficult for Chinese to get a visa to the U.S. is because of the insanely high volume of people from China trying to go to the U.S. every single day. You wonder why they had to wait in line for almost 3 hours? Go check out the nearest U.S. consulate when you're in China. See how many people are out there (coincidentally, I was at the one in Guangzhou 2 days ago. Wasn't pretty.). Whether they love it or hate it, for rational reasons or irrational reasons, mainland Chinese are absolutely obsessed with the U.S., and it's not hard to see once you've spent any significant time living here. For many Chinese, it's their ultimate dream to go to the U.S., whether it be for studying, traveling, or whatever. There are a lot of factors at play, but the end result is you have an insanely high volume of Chinese trying to immigrate or get visas every day. It's unfortunate, but some people have to get denied. When there are so many applying, sometimes the reasons may seem a bit arbitrary, sure. But there aren't a lot of alternatives, and one has to remember, at the end of the day, these officers have to do what's best for their country. To expect them not to act in such a way would be quite ignorant, and in some cases even hypocritical, I think.
If you doubt any of the above, do a little experiment. Go check out other consulates in China, and see what they're like. Then go back to the U.S. consulate. The differences are extraordinary. Just for reference, the other day I visited 3 separate consulates (Indian, Russian, and U.S.) in the same day, and the Indian and Russian ones were essentially empty. Relatively small, inside office buildings. The U.S. one however was huge, and yet there were still Chinese lined up all the way around the block, in two separate lines. That should help put things in perspective a bit.
It's also quite ignorant to assume that this is simply because of politics, or that the U.S. is just bullying Chinese. There are a LOT of Chinese in the U.S., and there have been for a very long time. As a whole they aren't being denied, there's just so many of them trying to immigrate. You also have to remember that there are a lot of them that really do try to lie and overstay their visa. As an immigration officer, you have to use your best judgement to prevent such issues, and that's not something you can get down to an accurate science. The U.S. is also far from the only country that Chinese have issues getting into, it's just understandably more difficult.
Finally, I just want to point out that plenty of Chinese that DON'T have family in the U.S. have no trouble traveling there for short times, even for work. There are a lot of factors involved, but the most important ones are that you can show you have money and/or a stable job, and that you have a reason to return to China. If you give them any reason to question those things, or if you're unclear about what exactly your purpose is, don't be surprised if you get denied. It's unfortunate, but consider all of the factors at play before you get too up into arms over the issue.
Either way, the situation with Jim is quite unfortunate. He may have done everything he was supposed to and had bad luck. It's sad, but it seems the entire thing wasn't planned very well. He may not have been able to provide proof of his reasoning before knowing he could compete in America, BUT he very well could have begun the process long before so that if he qualified he'd be more than ready. You don't need all of your documents to start scheduling appointments and preparing. Regardless of the preparation, it's still unfortunate, but you have to remember why this sort of thing happens. A young Chinese male going to the U.S. for a short term to essentially play video games isn't exactly the most solid of reasons for visiting, and isn't exactly the most convincing argument to an immigration officer, whether your family is wealthy or not. Don't forget, plenty of people have tried to cheat the system before (especially Chinese). Blame them, not the ones who are responsible for preventing it.
Anyway I'm not claiming to be an expert on visa-related issues with the U.S., but I have lived in China for a hell of a lot longer than a year, I have many friends here who have gone through these experiences, and I have a background in areas far more valuable than a degree in Chinese from the U.S. (not to be condescending, but a student who's learned even just 6 months of Chinese in China will be way ahead of a recent graduate with a Chinese degree from the U.S.), and these are all things I've witnessed and dealt with quite often (they aren't just random thoughts). Whether there are other factors at play or not is arguable for sure, but I can guarantee you that the things I mentioned here are absolutely relevant, and it seems most people aren't taking them into consideration when they really need to. You have to look at the bigger picture, not just what you see from the relatively isolated world of StarCraft 2.
Regardless, I hope everything works out for the Chinese players and I'd absolutely love to see them succeed. These unfortunate incidents will happen, and maybe it is best to move WCS America to a more neutral location, but we mustn't forget to look at the bigger picture when these things happen. Otherwise we're only moving further away from legitimizing this sort of thing in the eyes of the rest of the world.
good summary. China is one of the most riskiest countries in terms of visa fraud, which is another reason why chinese applications are looked at with a fine toothed comb. not to say that this applies to Jim who appears to merely be collateral damage.
These players from China got visa to come over here and play videogames at Evolution tournament some how
how then, since you guys say its impossible?
Cant be cause of age, cause these guys vary from 17-28s, and Macsed is 25 (Macsed has visa problem just like Jim)
These Chinese probably did not need a invitation letter either, besides ANYONE can go MLG Studios in Manhattan for Round of 16 WCS NA, either as audience/player
How did all these Chinese, each year, somehow get visas to travel to US to play at Evolution Videogame tournament?
These players from China got visa to come over here and play videogames at Evolution tournament some how
how then, since you guys say its impossible?
Cant be cause of age, cause these guys vary from 17-28s, and Macsed is 25 (Macsed has visa problem just like Jim)
These Chinese probably did not need a invitation letter either, besides ANYONE can go MLG Studios in Manhattan for Round of 16 WCS NA, either as audience/player
How did all these Chinese, each year, somehow get visas to travel to US to play at Evolution Videogame tournament?
Because EVO's date is set much more in advance, and a few months can make all the difference when it comes to procuring visas. It really is that simple.
These players from China got visa to come over here and play videogames at Evolution tournament some how
how then, since you guys say its impossible?
Cant be cause of age, cause these guys vary from 17-28s, and Macsed is 25 (Macsed has visa problem just like Jim)
These Chinese probably did not need a invitation letter either, besides ANYONE can go MLG Studios in Manhattan for Round of 16 WCS NA, either as audience/player
How did all these Chinese, each year, somehow get visas to travel to US to play at Evolution Videogame tournament?
nobody said it is impossible, and like farv says, time is a big factor in getting approved. based on the coach's letter, it sounds like there was a problem with blizzard's letter and not the USCIS requirements. if they fix the letter, there may no longer be a problem (assuming enough time to fix it).
These players from China got visa to come over here and play videogames at Evolution tournament some how
how then, since you guys say its impossible?
Cant be cause of age, cause these guys vary from 17-28s, and Macsed is 25 (Macsed has visa problem just like Jim)
These Chinese probably did not need a invitation letter either, besides ANYONE can go MLG Studios in Manhattan for Round of 16 WCS NA, either as audience/player
How did all these Chinese, each year, somehow get visas to travel to US to play at Evolution Videogame tournament?
Because EVO's date is set much more in advance, and a few months can make all the difference when it comes to procuring visas. It really is that simple.
WCS NA ro 16 was set in advance too, you could get the dates directly from Blizzard
And some of the EVO Chinese players, only had 1 month and a half (42 days basically) from winning the qualifier in China then traveling and playing in the US for the tournament
These players from China got visa to come over here and play videogames at Evolution tournament some how
how then, since you guys say its impossible?
Cant be cause of age, cause these guys vary from 17-28s, and Macsed is 25 (Macsed has visa problem just like Jim)
These Chinese probably did not need a invitation letter either, besides ANYONE can go MLG Studios in Manhattan for Round of 16 WCS NA, either as audience/player
How did all these Chinese, each year, somehow get visas to travel to US to play at Evolution Videogame tournament?
Because EVO's date is set much more in advance, and a few months can make all the difference when it comes to procuring visas. It really is that simple.
WCS NA ro 16 was set in advance too, you could get the dates directly from Blizzard
And some of the EVO Chinese players, only had 1 month and a half (42 days basically) from winning the qualifier in China then traveling and playing in the US for the tournament
Right, which is longer than Jim from the day he qualified for the round of 16. He can’t request a visa if he “might have to go”. He requested an emergency meeting to get the visa approved and they set the appointment once he had proof as to why he was going to the US. They have a new meeting in 4 days (July 30, 2013) and maybe it will get approved then. I don’t know why this is shocking for you. People have stated that students to are accepted to US colleges get their visas denied as well. It isn’t a sure thing.
These players from China got visa to come over here and play videogames at Evolution tournament some how
how then, since you guys say its impossible?
Cant be cause of age, cause these guys vary from 17-28s, and Macsed is 25 (Macsed has visa problem just like Jim)
These Chinese probably did not need a invitation letter either, besides ANYONE can go MLG Studios in Manhattan for Round of 16 WCS NA, either as audience/player
How did all these Chinese, each year, somehow get visas to travel to US to play at Evolution Videogame tournament?
Because EVO's date is set much more in advance, and a few months can make all the difference when it comes to procuring visas. It really is that simple.
WCS NA ro 16 was set in advance too, you could get the dates directly from Blizzard
And some of the EVO Chinese players, only had 1 month and a half (42 days basically) from winning the qualifier in China then traveling and playing in the US for the tournament
Right, which is longer than Jim from the day he qualified for the round of 16. He can’t request a visa if he “might have to go”. He requested an emergency meeting to get the visa approved and they set the appointment once he had proof as to why he was going to the US. They have a new meeting in 4 days (July 30, 2013) and maybe it will get approved then. I don’t know why this is shocking for you. People have stated that students to are accepted to US colleges get their visas denied as well. It isn’t a sure thing.
I dont know exactly what the China EVO players said to get their visas, but it was probably that they were going to Evolution to watch/play videogames
The EVO Chinese didnt need a letter, they just did the process very early (since its first come first serve), and they somehow get to go each year to US to watch/play videogames
So why couldnt Jim/Macsed apply earlier for visa with the same idea? Tell them going to MLG Manhattan to watch/play videogames
I'm not saying its impossible to be denied a VISA, and 100% everyone gets one
Im saying why didnt they try getting the VISA much earlier (thus have more time to work on it if it doesnt get accepted theg first time), like China EVOLUTION players did, they all are going to watch/play videogames
These players from China got visa to come over here and play videogames at Evolution tournament some how
how then, since you guys say its impossible?
Cant be cause of age, cause these guys vary from 17-28s, and Macsed is 25 (Macsed has visa problem just like Jim)
These Chinese probably did not need a invitation letter either, besides ANYONE can go MLG Studios in Manhattan for Round of 16 WCS NA, either as audience/player
How did all these Chinese, each year, somehow get visas to travel to US to play at Evolution Videogame tournament?
Because EVO's date is set much more in advance, and a few months can make all the difference when it comes to procuring visas. It really is that simple.
WCS NA ro 16 was set in advance too, you could get the dates directly from Blizzard
And some of the EVO Chinese players, only had 1 month and a half (42 days basically) from winning the qualifier in China then traveling and playing in the US for the tournament
Right, which is longer than Jim from the day he qualified for the round of 16. He can’t request a visa if he “might have to go”. He requested an emergency meeting to get the visa approved and they set the appointment once he had proof as to why he was going to the US. They have a new meeting in 4 days (July 30, 2013) and maybe it will get approved then. I don’t know why this is shocking for you. People have stated that students to are accepted to US colleges get their visas denied as well. It isn’t a sure thing.
I dont know exactly what the China EVO players said to get their visas, but it was probably that they were going to Evolution to watch/play videogames
The EVO Chinese didnt need a letter, they just did the process very early (since its first come first serve)
So why couldnt Jim/Macsed apply earlier for visa with the same idea? Tell them going to MLG Manhattan to watch/play videogames
God damn it, they can, but they might get denied due to the short notice. In general, if you want to travel to another country and you need to go there RIGHT FUCKING NOW, there is a chance you might be denied a visa. And if your reason is, "I'm gunna play video games," it might not help.
These players from China got visa to come over here and play videogames at Evolution tournament some how
how then, since you guys say its impossible?
Cant be cause of age, cause these guys vary from 17-28s, and Macsed is 25 (Macsed has visa problem just like Jim)
These Chinese probably did not need a invitation letter either, besides ANYONE can go MLG Studios in Manhattan for Round of 16 WCS NA, either as audience/player
How did all these Chinese, each year, somehow get visas to travel to US to play at Evolution Videogame tournament?
Because EVO's date is set much more in advance, and a few months can make all the difference when it comes to procuring visas. It really is that simple.
WCS NA ro 16 was set in advance too, you could get the dates directly from Blizzard
And some of the EVO Chinese players, only had 1 month and a half (42 days basically) from winning the qualifier in China then traveling and playing in the US for the tournament
Right, which is longer than Jim from the day he qualified for the round of 16. He can’t request a visa if he “might have to go”. He requested an emergency meeting to get the visa approved and they set the appointment once he had proof as to why he was going to the US. They have a new meeting in 4 days (July 30, 2013) and maybe it will get approved then. I don’t know why this is shocking for you. People have stated that students to are accepted to US colleges get their visas denied as well. It isn’t a sure thing.
I dont know exactly what the China EVO players said to get their visas, but it was probably that they were going to Evolution to watch/play videogames
The EVO Chinese didnt need a letter, they just did the process very early (since its first come first serve), and they somehow get to go each year to US to watch/play videogames
So why couldnt Jim/Macsed apply earlier for visa with the same idea? Tell them going to MLG Manhattan to watch/play videogames
This is more important than you realize. The fact that EVO has been going on for years and has routinely attracted Chinese players makes it far more likely that both the US and Chinese officials involved in the visa process are familiar with the event and what it means as far as visas are concerned. Considering that we already know that Blizzard messed up their letter to the office, it isn't hard to imagine that a lack of familiarity with the WCS played into Jim's visa issues.
These players from China got visa to come over here and play videogames at Evolution tournament some how
how then, since you guys say its impossible?
Cant be cause of age, cause these guys vary from 17-28s, and Macsed is 25 (Macsed has visa problem just like Jim)
These Chinese probably did not need a invitation letter either, besides ANYONE can go MLG Studios in Manhattan for Round of 16 WCS NA, either as audience/player
How did all these Chinese, each year, somehow get visas to travel to US to play at Evolution Videogame tournament?
Because EVO's date is set much more in advance, and a few months can make all the difference when it comes to procuring visas. It really is that simple.
WCS NA ro 16 was set in advance too, you could get the dates directly from Blizzard
And some of the EVO Chinese players, only had 1 month and a half (42 days basically) from winning the qualifier in China then traveling and playing in the US for the tournament
Right, which is longer than Jim from the day he qualified for the round of 16. He can’t request a visa if he “might have to go”. He requested an emergency meeting to get the visa approved and they set the appointment once he had proof as to why he was going to the US. They have a new meeting in 4 days (July 30, 2013) and maybe it will get approved then. I don’t know why this is shocking for you. People have stated that students to are accepted to US colleges get their visas denied as well. It isn’t a sure thing.
I dont know exactly what the China EVO players said to get their visas, but it was probably that they were going to Evolution to watch/play videogames
The EVO Chinese didnt need a letter, they just did the process very early (since its first come first serve)
So why couldnt Jim/Macsed apply earlier for visa with the same idea? Tell them going to MLG Manhattan to watch/play videogames
God damn it, they can, but they might get denied due to the short notice. In general, if you want to travel to another country and you need to go there RIGHT FUCKING NOW, there is a chance you might be denied a visa. And if your reason is, "I'm gunna play video games," it might not help.
So you agree that doing it on short notice is a problem? thats the whole point of my original post and subsequent posts in this thread
why not do visa very early, just like the CHINA EVOLUTION players (didnt need any invitation letter), who are going to US to watch/play videogames
at MLG studios you can watch the RO 16, might not get to play, but anyone can go
These players from China got visa to come over here and play videogames at Evolution tournament some how
how then, since you guys say its impossible?
Cant be cause of age, cause these guys vary from 17-28s, and Macsed is 25 (Macsed has visa problem just like Jim)
These Chinese probably did not need a invitation letter either, besides ANYONE can go MLG Studios in Manhattan for Round of 16 WCS NA, either as audience/player
How did all these Chinese, each year, somehow get visas to travel to US to play at Evolution Videogame tournament?
Because EVO's date is set much more in advance, and a few months can make all the difference when it comes to procuring visas. It really is that simple.
WCS NA ro 16 was set in advance too, you could get the dates directly from Blizzard
And some of the EVO Chinese players, only had 1 month and a half (42 days basically) from winning the qualifier in China then traveling and playing in the US for the tournament
Right, which is longer than Jim from the day he qualified for the round of 16. He can’t request a visa if he “might have to go”. He requested an emergency meeting to get the visa approved and they set the appointment once he had proof as to why he was going to the US. They have a new meeting in 4 days (July 30, 2013) and maybe it will get approved then. I don’t know why this is shocking for you. People have stated that students to are accepted to US colleges get their visas denied as well. It isn’t a sure thing.
I dont know exactly what the China EVO players said to get their visas, but it was probably that they were going to Evolution to watch/play videogames
The EVO Chinese didnt need a letter, they just did the process very early (since its first come first serve), and they somehow get to go each year to US to watch/play videogames
So why couldnt Jim/Macsed apply earlier for visa with the same idea? Tell them going to MLG Manhattan to watch/play videogames
This is more important than you realize. The fact that EVO has been going on for years and has routinely attracted Chinese players makes it far more likely that both the US and Chinese officials involved in the visa process are familiar with the event and what it means as far as visas are concerned. Considering that we already know that Blizzard messed up their letter to the office, it isn't hard to imagine that a lack of familiarity with the WCS played into Jim's visa issues.
Messed up might not be the correct term. We don't know what letter they brought or if Blizzard wrote it with teh express purpose of using it as evidence of a reason to travel for the USCIS. As far as we know it was directions to the event and something to show the guy at the door when you got there. Or it as an email they printed, or anything really. It could be so stupid as "this isn't dated and there is no official letter head on it".
These players from China got visa to come over here and play videogames at Evolution tournament some how
how then, since you guys say its impossible?
Cant be cause of age, cause these guys vary from 17-28s, and Macsed is 25 (Macsed has visa problem just like Jim)
These Chinese probably did not need a invitation letter either, besides ANYONE can go MLG Studios in Manhattan for Round of 16 WCS NA, either as audience/player
How did all these Chinese, each year, somehow get visas to travel to US to play at Evolution Videogame tournament?
Because EVO's date is set much more in advance, and a few months can make all the difference when it comes to procuring visas. It really is that simple.
WCS NA ro 16 was set in advance too, you could get the dates directly from Blizzard
And some of the EVO Chinese players, only had 1 month and a half (42 days basically) from winning the qualifier in China then traveling and playing in the US for the tournament
Right, which is longer than Jim from the day he qualified for the round of 16. He can’t request a visa if he “might have to go”. He requested an emergency meeting to get the visa approved and they set the appointment once he had proof as to why he was going to the US. They have a new meeting in 4 days (July 30, 2013) and maybe it will get approved then. I don’t know why this is shocking for you. People have stated that students to are accepted to US colleges get their visas denied as well. It isn’t a sure thing.
I dont know exactly what the China EVO players said to get their visas, but it was probably that they were going to Evolution to watch/play videogames
The EVO Chinese didnt need a letter, they just did the process very early (since its first come first serve)
So why couldnt Jim/Macsed apply earlier for visa with the same idea? Tell them going to MLG Manhattan to watch/play videogames
God damn it, they can, but they might get denied due to the short notice. In general, if you want to travel to another country and you need to go there RIGHT FUCKING NOW, there is a chance you might be denied a visa. And if your reason is, "I'm gunna play video games," it might not help.
So you agree that doing it on short notice is a problem? thats the whole point of my original post and subsequent posts in this thread
why not do visa very early, just like the CHINA EVOLUTION players (didnt need any invitation letter), who are going to US to watch/play videogames
at MLG studios you can watch the RO 16, might not get to play, but anyone can go
simple as that
Who knows why, but the coach and other people are sayign they couldn't apply earlier. Maybe they tried and the USCIS told them to come back when they had firm dates they intented to travel. That is what people ahve been telling you over and over and over, that the coach said "we couldn't apply any earlier". Unless you think he totally fucked up and didn't try hard enough to find some way around that, it is sort of a pointless argument.
Ok, well see in the topic creator's opening post, it does not say the Coach tried as early as possible (even trying before Jim/Macsed won their ro32 games)
also, the people earlier in the thread were not telling me that the Coach tried as early as possible, one of them in fact said "mikumegurine has no fucking clue how visas work cause its impossible for Asians (Chinese, Malay?) to get a visa TO PLAY VIDEOGAMES"
which now do you see, is completely untrue? Since many Chinese DO come to US each year to watch/play videogames
If the coach really did try for visa several months before Jim/Macsed played their ro32 games, then atleast they tried, is what im trying to say
These players from China got visa to come over here and play videogames at Evolution tournament some how
how then, since you guys say its impossible?
Cant be cause of age, cause these guys vary from 17-28s, and Macsed is 25 (Macsed has visa problem just like Jim)
These Chinese probably did not need a invitation letter either, besides ANYONE can go MLG Studios in Manhattan for Round of 16 WCS NA, either as audience/player
How did all these Chinese, each year, somehow get visas to travel to US to play at Evolution Videogame tournament?
Because EVO's date is set much more in advance, and a few months can make all the difference when it comes to procuring visas. It really is that simple.
WCS NA ro 16 was set in advance too, you could get the dates directly from Blizzard
And some of the EVO Chinese players, only had 1 month and a half (42 days basically) from winning the qualifier in China then traveling and playing in the US for the tournament
Right, which is longer than Jim from the day he qualified for the round of 16. He can’t request a visa if he “might have to go”. He requested an emergency meeting to get the visa approved and they set the appointment once he had proof as to why he was going to the US. They have a new meeting in 4 days (July 30, 2013) and maybe it will get approved then. I don’t know why this is shocking for you. People have stated that students to are accepted to US colleges get their visas denied as well. It isn’t a sure thing.
I dont know exactly what the China EVO players said to get their visas, but it was probably that they were going to Evolution to watch/play videogames
The EVO Chinese didnt need a letter, they just did the process very early (since its first come first serve)
So why couldnt Jim/Macsed apply earlier for visa with the same idea? Tell them going to MLG Manhattan to watch/play videogames
God damn it, they can, but they might get denied due to the short notice. In general, if you want to travel to another country and you need to go there RIGHT FUCKING NOW, there is a chance you might be denied a visa. And if your reason is, "I'm gunna play video games," it might not help.
So you agree that doing it on short notice is a problem? thats the whole point of my original post and subsequent posts in this thread
why not do visa very early, just like the CHINA EVOLUTION players (didnt need any invitation letter), who are going to US to watch/play videogames
at MLG studios you can watch the RO 16, might not get to play, but anyone can go
simple as that
paying for plane tickets and visa application fees when you wont be playing (or dont know whether you will be playing) is cost prohibitive for some people (and, arguably, unfair). its not a good system.
These players from China got visa to come over here and play videogames at Evolution tournament some how
how then, since you guys say its impossible?
Cant be cause of age, cause these guys vary from 17-28s, and Macsed is 25 (Macsed has visa problem just like Jim)
These Chinese probably did not need a invitation letter either, besides ANYONE can go MLG Studios in Manhattan for Round of 16 WCS NA, either as audience/player
How did all these Chinese, each year, somehow get visas to travel to US to play at Evolution Videogame tournament?
Because EVO's date is set much more in advance, and a few months can make all the difference when it comes to procuring visas. It really is that simple.
WCS NA ro 16 was set in advance too, you could get the dates directly from Blizzard
And some of the EVO Chinese players, only had 1 month and a half (42 days basically) from winning the qualifier in China then traveling and playing in the US for the tournament
Right, which is longer than Jim from the day he qualified for the round of 16. He can’t request a visa if he “might have to go”. He requested an emergency meeting to get the visa approved and they set the appointment once he had proof as to why he was going to the US. They have a new meeting in 4 days (July 30, 2013) and maybe it will get approved then. I don’t know why this is shocking for you. People have stated that students to are accepted to US colleges get their visas denied as well. It isn’t a sure thing.
I dont know exactly what the China EVO players said to get their visas, but it was probably that they were going to Evolution to watch/play videogames
The EVO Chinese didnt need a letter, they just did the process very early (since its first come first serve)
So why couldnt Jim/Macsed apply earlier for visa with the same idea? Tell them going to MLG Manhattan to watch/play videogames
God damn it, they can, but they might get denied due to the short notice. In general, if you want to travel to another country and you need to go there RIGHT FUCKING NOW, there is a chance you might be denied a visa. And if your reason is, "I'm gunna play video games," it might not help.
So you agree that doing it on short notice is a problem? thats the whole point of my original post and subsequent posts in this thread
why not do visa very early, just like the CHINA EVOLUTION players (didnt need any invitation letter), who are going to US to watch/play videogames
at MLG studios you can watch the RO 16, might not get to play, but anyone can go
simple as that
paying for plane tickets and visa application fees when you wont be playing (or dont know whether you will be playing) is cost prohibitive for some people (and, arguably, unfair). its not a good system.
Yes its cost prohibitive and surely unfair, but when this is a once of a lifetime event, a $150 consulate fee + $200 plane ticket cancellation fee (and trying as ridiculous early as possible) is no biggie dont you think?
These players from China got visa to come over here and play videogames at Evolution tournament some how
how then, since you guys say its impossible?
Cant be cause of age, cause these guys vary from 17-28s, and Macsed is 25 (Macsed has visa problem just like Jim)
These Chinese probably did not need a invitation letter either, besides ANYONE can go MLG Studios in Manhattan for Round of 16 WCS NA, either as audience/player
How did all these Chinese, each year, somehow get visas to travel to US to play at Evolution Videogame tournament?
Because EVO's date is set much more in advance, and a few months can make all the difference when it comes to procuring visas. It really is that simple.
WCS NA ro 16 was set in advance too, you could get the dates directly from Blizzard
And some of the EVO Chinese players, only had 1 month and a half (42 days basically) from winning the qualifier in China then traveling and playing in the US for the tournament
Right, which is longer than Jim from the day he qualified for the round of 16. He can’t request a visa if he “might have to go”. He requested an emergency meeting to get the visa approved and they set the appointment once he had proof as to why he was going to the US. They have a new meeting in 4 days (July 30, 2013) and maybe it will get approved then. I don’t know why this is shocking for you. People have stated that students to are accepted to US colleges get their visas denied as well. It isn’t a sure thing.
I dont know exactly what the China EVO players said to get their visas, but it was probably that they were going to Evolution to watch/play videogames
The EVO Chinese didnt need a letter, they just did the process very early (since its first come first serve)
So why couldnt Jim/Macsed apply earlier for visa with the same idea? Tell them going to MLG Manhattan to watch/play videogames
God damn it, they can, but they might get denied due to the short notice. In general, if you want to travel to another country and you need to go there RIGHT FUCKING NOW, there is a chance you might be denied a visa. And if your reason is, "I'm gunna play video games," it might not help.
So you agree that doing it on short notice is a problem? thats the whole point of my original post and subsequent posts in this thread
why not do visa very early, just like the CHINA EVOLUTION players (didnt need any invitation letter), who are going to US to watch/play videogames
at MLG studios you can watch the RO 16, might not get to play, but anyone can go
simple as that
paying for plane tickets and visa application fees when you wont be playing (or dont know whether you will be playing) is cost prohibitive for some people (and, arguably, unfair). its not a good system.
Could you even get a visa if you didn't know the exact dates you were going to compete? I was under the impression that when you got a visa you needed to state when you intented to enter the country and when you intented to leave.
These players from China got visa to come over here and play videogames at Evolution tournament some how
how then, since you guys say its impossible?
Cant be cause of age, cause these guys vary from 17-28s, and Macsed is 25 (Macsed has visa problem just like Jim)
These Chinese probably did not need a invitation letter either, besides ANYONE can go MLG Studios in Manhattan for Round of 16 WCS NA, either as audience/player
How did all these Chinese, each year, somehow get visas to travel to US to play at Evolution Videogame tournament?
Because EVO's date is set much more in advance, and a few months can make all the difference when it comes to procuring visas. It really is that simple.
WCS NA ro 16 was set in advance too, you could get the dates directly from Blizzard
And some of the EVO Chinese players, only had 1 month and a half (42 days basically) from winning the qualifier in China then traveling and playing in the US for the tournament
Right, which is longer than Jim from the day he qualified for the round of 16. He can’t request a visa if he “might have to go”. He requested an emergency meeting to get the visa approved and they set the appointment once he had proof as to why he was going to the US. They have a new meeting in 4 days (July 30, 2013) and maybe it will get approved then. I don’t know why this is shocking for you. People have stated that students to are accepted to US colleges get their visas denied as well. It isn’t a sure thing.
I dont know exactly what the China EVO players said to get their visas, but it was probably that they were going to Evolution to watch/play videogames
The EVO Chinese didnt need a letter, they just did the process very early (since its first come first serve)
So why couldnt Jim/Macsed apply earlier for visa with the same idea? Tell them going to MLG Manhattan to watch/play videogames
God damn it, they can, but they might get denied due to the short notice. In general, if you want to travel to another country and you need to go there RIGHT FUCKING NOW, there is a chance you might be denied a visa. And if your reason is, "I'm gunna play video games," it might not help.
So you agree that doing it on short notice is a problem? thats the whole point of my original post and subsequent posts in this thread
why not do visa very early, just like the CHINA EVOLUTION players (didnt need any invitation letter), who are going to US to watch/play videogames
at MLG studios you can watch the RO 16, might not get to play, but anyone can go
simple as that
paying for plane tickets and visa application fees when you wont be playing (or dont know whether you will be playing) is cost prohibitive for some people (and, arguably, unfair). its not a good system.
Yes its cost prohibitive and surely unfair, but when this is a once of a lifetime event, a $150 consulate fee + $200 plane ticket cancellation fee (and trying as ridiculous early as possible) is no biggie dont you think?
thats why i said arguably unfair. for me, $350 doesnt matter given the context, but i doubt Jim and other Chinese are in a similar financial situation that they can do this repeatedly or even once. i am not going to cry for them, but i will say it sucks that he cant come. same with the IEM thing, he left in the middle of the tournament. I am not going to cry for him, but i will say it sucks they werent able to make accommodations for him especially since he is chinese and this is china IEM.
i am not sure you and i are disagreeing as i originally thought. your point is that they could have applied really early (i.e., before they even knew they were qualified) and less likely to have these timing issues. i assume that is correct--i say assume because i dont know whether they actually need a letter from Blizzard to come.
These players from China got visa to come over here and play videogames at Evolution tournament some how
how then, since you guys say its impossible?
Cant be cause of age, cause these guys vary from 17-28s, and Macsed is 25 (Macsed has visa problem just like Jim)
These Chinese probably did not need a invitation letter either, besides ANYONE can go MLG Studios in Manhattan for Round of 16 WCS NA, either as audience/player
How did all these Chinese, each year, somehow get visas to travel to US to play at Evolution Videogame tournament?
Because EVO's date is set much more in advance, and a few months can make all the difference when it comes to procuring visas. It really is that simple.
WCS NA ro 16 was set in advance too, you could get the dates directly from Blizzard
And some of the EVO Chinese players, only had 1 month and a half (42 days basically) from winning the qualifier in China then traveling and playing in the US for the tournament
Right, which is longer than Jim from the day he qualified for the round of 16. He can’t request a visa if he “might have to go”. He requested an emergency meeting to get the visa approved and they set the appointment once he had proof as to why he was going to the US. They have a new meeting in 4 days (July 30, 2013) and maybe it will get approved then. I don’t know why this is shocking for you. People have stated that students to are accepted to US colleges get their visas denied as well. It isn’t a sure thing.
I dont know exactly what the China EVO players said to get their visas, but it was probably that they were going to Evolution to watch/play videogames
The EVO Chinese didnt need a letter, they just did the process very early (since its first come first serve)
So why couldnt Jim/Macsed apply earlier for visa with the same idea? Tell them going to MLG Manhattan to watch/play videogames
God damn it, they can, but they might get denied due to the short notice. In general, if you want to travel to another country and you need to go there RIGHT FUCKING NOW, there is a chance you might be denied a visa. And if your reason is, "I'm gunna play video games," it might not help.
So you agree that doing it on short notice is a problem? thats the whole point of my original post and subsequent posts in this thread
why not do visa very early, just like the CHINA EVOLUTION players (didnt need any invitation letter), who are going to US to watch/play videogames
at MLG studios you can watch the RO 16, might not get to play, but anyone can go
simple as that
paying for plane tickets and visa application fees when you wont be playing (or dont know whether you will be playing) is cost prohibitive for some people (and, arguably, unfair). its not a good system.
Could you even get a visa if you didn't know the exact dates you were going to compete? I was under the impression that when you got a visa you needed to state when you intented to enter the country and when you intented to leave.
well when you intemd to leave is the most important part the look at
visas are good for staying in US for atleast 90 days, if the coach contacted Blizzard, im sure they would have given the planned dates ahead or time (with a 3 month leeway...)?
also, not sure of course but maybe? they shouldnt need a letter, cause of all those China EVO players who come to US to watch/play videogames and they are without a letter
These players from China got visa to come over here and play videogames at Evolution tournament some how
how then, since you guys say its impossible?
Cant be cause of age, cause these guys vary from 17-28s, and Macsed is 25 (Macsed has visa problem just like Jim)
These Chinese probably did not need a invitation letter either, besides ANYONE can go MLG Studios in Manhattan for Round of 16 WCS NA, either as audience/player
How did all these Chinese, each year, somehow get visas to travel to US to play at Evolution Videogame tournament?
Because EVO's date is set much more in advance, and a few months can make all the difference when it comes to procuring visas. It really is that simple.
WCS NA ro 16 was set in advance too, you could get the dates directly from Blizzard
And some of the EVO Chinese players, only had 1 month and a half (42 days basically) from winning the qualifier in China then traveling and playing in the US for the tournament
Right, which is longer than Jim from the day he qualified for the round of 16. He can’t request a visa if he “might have to go”. He requested an emergency meeting to get the visa approved and they set the appointment once he had proof as to why he was going to the US. They have a new meeting in 4 days (July 30, 2013) and maybe it will get approved then. I don’t know why this is shocking for you. People have stated that students to are accepted to US colleges get their visas denied as well. It isn’t a sure thing.
I dont know exactly what the China EVO players said to get their visas, but it was probably that they were going to Evolution to watch/play videogames
The EVO Chinese didnt need a letter, they just did the process very early (since its first come first serve)
So why couldnt Jim/Macsed apply earlier for visa with the same idea? Tell them going to MLG Manhattan to watch/play videogames
God damn it, they can, but they might get denied due to the short notice. In general, if you want to travel to another country and you need to go there RIGHT FUCKING NOW, there is a chance you might be denied a visa. And if your reason is, "I'm gunna play video games," it might not help.
So you agree that doing it on short notice is a problem? thats the whole point of my original post and subsequent posts in this thread
why not do visa very early, just like the CHINA EVOLUTION players (didnt need any invitation letter), who are going to US to watch/play videogames
at MLG studios you can watch the RO 16, might not get to play, but anyone can go
simple as that
paying for plane tickets and visa application fees when you wont be playing (or dont know whether you will be playing) is cost prohibitive for some people (and, arguably, unfair). its not a good system.
Could you even get a visa if you didn't know the exact dates you were going to compete? I was under the impression that when you got a visa you needed to state when you intented to enter the country and when you intented to leave.
i actually do not know. is this considered business? if so, you need a b1 at the least. if not, there may be a visa waiver program for china (not sure about this) or you can do the b2 tourist visa.
of course, you can always come in on a tourist visa, do the tournament and leave, but if that is improper and they find out (unlikely) you may be red flagged for future travel.
edit: china is not part of the visa waiver program.
On July 27 2013 04:24 Wombat_NI wrote: In terms of a solution to this issue, is granting China a WCS region viable/desirable for you folks?
well i duno if a new entire region is feasible
also what about the world WCS finals then? that would have o be moved to China as well to accommodate any Chinese that make it that far...
I would say one thing to try is to set event dates, many many months beforehand in stone (like EVOLUTION tournament, its usually always occurs the same month each year)
And somehjow make WCS NA as easy to travel to as EVO is
These players from China got visa to come over here and play videogames at Evolution tournament some how
how then, since you guys say its impossible?
Cant be cause of age, cause these guys vary from 17-28s, and Macsed is 25 (Macsed has visa problem just like Jim)
These Chinese probably did not need a invitation letter either, besides ANYONE can go MLG Studios in Manhattan for Round of 16 WCS NA, either as audience/player
How did all these Chinese, each year, somehow get visas to travel to US to play at Evolution Videogame tournament?
Because EVO's date is set much more in advance, and a few months can make all the difference when it comes to procuring visas. It really is that simple.
WCS NA ro 16 was set in advance too, you could get the dates directly from Blizzard
And some of the EVO Chinese players, only had 1 month and a half (42 days basically) from winning the qualifier in China then traveling and playing in the US for the tournament
Right, which is longer than Jim from the day he qualified for the round of 16. He can’t request a visa if he “might have to go”. He requested an emergency meeting to get the visa approved and they set the appointment once he had proof as to why he was going to the US. They have a new meeting in 4 days (July 30, 2013) and maybe it will get approved then. I don’t know why this is shocking for you. People have stated that students to are accepted to US colleges get their visas denied as well. It isn’t a sure thing.
I dont know exactly what the China EVO players said to get their visas, but it was probably that they were going to Evolution to watch/play videogames
The EVO Chinese didnt need a letter, they just did the process very early (since its first come first serve)
So why couldnt Jim/Macsed apply earlier for visa with the same idea? Tell them going to MLG Manhattan to watch/play videogames
God damn it, they can, but they might get denied due to the short notice. In general, if you want to travel to another country and you need to go there RIGHT FUCKING NOW, there is a chance you might be denied a visa. And if your reason is, "I'm gunna play video games," it might not help.
So you agree that doing it on short notice is a problem? thats the whole point of my original post and subsequent posts in this thread
why not do visa very early, just like the CHINA EVOLUTION players (didnt need any invitation letter), who are going to US to watch/play videogames
at MLG studios you can watch the RO 16, might not get to play, but anyone can go
simple as that
paying for plane tickets and visa application fees when you wont be playing (or dont know whether you will be playing) is cost prohibitive for some people (and, arguably, unfair). its not a good system.
Could you even get a visa if you didn't know the exact dates you were going to compete? I was under the impression that when you got a visa you needed to state when you intented to enter the country and when you intented to leave.
i actually do not know. is this considered business? if so, you need a b1 at the least. if not, there may be a visa waiver program for china (not sure about this) or you can do the b2 tourist visa.
of course, you can always come in on a tourist visa, do the tournament and leave, but if that is improper and they find out (unlikely) you may be red flagged for future travel.
edit: china is not part of the visa waiver program.
I have a friend who's father who is a banker from Bangladesh and does work in the US and they give him such a hard time getting a business visa. I can't imagine that a SC2 player could get one easily or provide sufficient proof that they were a business that the USCIS would accept.
And your right that the worst thing the players could do is lie. One fo the first questions they ask you is "do you intent to work or make money during your stay?"
These players from China got visa to come over here and play videogames at Evolution tournament some how
how then, since you guys say its impossible?
Cant be cause of age, cause these guys vary from 17-28s, and Macsed is 25 (Macsed has visa problem just like Jim)
These Chinese probably did not need a invitation letter either, besides ANYONE can go MLG Studios in Manhattan for Round of 16 WCS NA, either as audience/player
How did all these Chinese, each year, somehow get visas to travel to US to play at Evolution Videogame tournament?
Because EVO's date is set much more in advance, and a few months can make all the difference when it comes to procuring visas. It really is that simple.
WCS NA ro 16 was set in advance too, you could get the dates directly from Blizzard
And some of the EVO Chinese players, only had 1 month and a half (42 days basically) from winning the qualifier in China then traveling and playing in the US for the tournament
Right, which is longer than Jim from the day he qualified for the round of 16. He can’t request a visa if he “might have to go”. He requested an emergency meeting to get the visa approved and they set the appointment once he had proof as to why he was going to the US. They have a new meeting in 4 days (July 30, 2013) and maybe it will get approved then. I don’t know why this is shocking for you. People have stated that students to are accepted to US colleges get their visas denied as well. It isn’t a sure thing.
I dont know exactly what the China EVO players said to get their visas, but it was probably that they were going to Evolution to watch/play videogames
The EVO Chinese didnt need a letter, they just did the process very early (since its first come first serve)
So why couldnt Jim/Macsed apply earlier for visa with the same idea? Tell them going to MLG Manhattan to watch/play videogames
God damn it, they can, but they might get denied due to the short notice. In general, if you want to travel to another country and you need to go there RIGHT FUCKING NOW, there is a chance you might be denied a visa. And if your reason is, "I'm gunna play video games," it might not help.
So you agree that doing it on short notice is a problem? thats the whole point of my original post and subsequent posts in this thread
why not do visa very early, just like the CHINA EVOLUTION players (didnt need any invitation letter), who are going to US to watch/play videogames
at MLG studios you can watch the RO 16, might not get to play, but anyone can go
simple as that
paying for plane tickets and visa application fees when you wont be playing (or dont know whether you will be playing) is cost prohibitive for some people (and, arguably, unfair). its not a good system.
Could you even get a visa if you didn't know the exact dates you were going to compete? I was under the impression that when you got a visa you needed to state when you intented to enter the country and when you intented to leave.
well when you intemd to leave is the most important part the look at
visas are good for staying in US for atleast 90 days, if the coach contacted Blizzard, im sure they would have given the planned dates ahead or time (with a 3 month leeway...)?
also, not sure of course but maybe? they shouldnt need a letter, cause of all those China EVO players who come to US to watch/play videogames and they are without a letter
China is not part of the waiver program, so they do not get the 90 day visas you are referencing, FYI. Their visas are likely more restrictive and open ended.
On July 27 2013 04:24 Wombat_NI wrote: In terms of a solution to this issue, is granting China a WCS region viable/desirable for you folks?
well i duno if a new entire region is feasible
also what about the world WCS finals then? that would have o be moved to China as well to accommodate any Chinese that make it that far...
I would say one thing to try is to set event dates, many many months beforehand in stone (like EVOLUTION tournament, its usually always occurs the same month each year)
And somehjow make WCS NA as easy to travel to as EVO is
Doesn't have to move the WCS finals to china. Moving it out of the US would be enough, I think (US visas are harder to get than for most other occidental countries).
Having fixed dates won't change the fact that people don't know if they'll get that far in the tournament, and for how long they'll need to be there.
On July 27 2013 04:52 AllHailTheDead wrote: wow kinda fucked up
they had to disqualify him because they didnt follow the schedule but they were already behind and off the schedule to begin with
what a bunch of BS
and as compensation, they give him a seed on a IEM tournament later on, which they already know he has visa travelling issues with
Actually they don't even give him a seed on the next IEM tournament, but an invitation to the qualifier of the next IEM..... Funny enough, huh? Even they give Jim a seed on the next tournament, it does not help since Jim will not get his visa... a huh. Smart decision.
On July 26 2013 18:36 Orlandu wrote: Finally, I just want to point out that plenty of Chinese that DON'T have family in the U.S. have no trouble traveling there for short times, even for work. There are a lot of factors involved, but the most important ones are that you can show you have money and/or a stable job, and that you have a reason to return to China. If you give them any reason to question those things, or if you're unclear about what exactly your purpose is, don't be surprised if you get denied. It's unfortunate, but consider all of the factors at play before you get too up into arms over the issue.
Ah, good ole American Xenophobia. Isn't this the reason why we're building higher border fences at the Mexican border and trying to weed out any illegal immigrant hoping to clean our restrooms and pick our fruits?
It's the American way to look at a teenage kid, not even old enough to smoke or drink legally, asking to work in the US for a weekend tournament, and think, "Hmm... do I want to risk this kid staying in the US long term, playing SC2, and taking the jobs of hard working American SC2 players? I mean, I know that he can't actually get his tournament winnings without having a valid visa and all that, so there shouldn't be any reason why he would stay in the US beyond the tournament... But ya never know! Can't take the chance! I mean look at him. He looks nervous. I bet he has something to hide. Nevermind he's 16 and probably doesn't talk to a lot of Americans in his everyday life. He's probably trying to weasel his way into the glory land that is the USA and spend the rest of his life there washing dishes and busing tables."
Visa Rejected!
You sound as if you have a very liberal view of how things should work in the world. If you really think that's xenophobia, you badly need to go out into the world and see for yourself what it's like out there (just for reference, if you want to bring up the subject of xenophobia, the U.S. is nowhere close to China regarding that topic). Ideally, you may be right that people should just be allowed to go wherever, but in reality things aren't that simple. What would you suggest, then? That all of the thousands of Chinese trying to go over to the U.S. every single day, many of whom have much better reasons and support for going to the U.S. than a young StarCraft 2 player who doesn't even have a personal guardian guaranteeing responsibility for him if he overstays or breaks the law (Blizzard does NOT count), should all be granted their visas? If only the world could be so simple.
You're confusing xenophobia with something entirely different. It's not the fault of the U.S. immigration officers that some people in the world don't understand that countries simply can't handle the type of massive immigration that so many people in the world expect to be able to do when it comes to the U.S.. You really, really need to live outside of the U.S. for a few years if you truly believe everything you wrote.
EDIT: For the record, if you're really familiar with China as your location might imply, you'd know that despite your sarcasm, that's exactly what many people DO try to do (push the boundaries of the law and/or stay illegally), especially in China, as for many Chinese it's an obsessive dream.
I'm not sure why this became a US vs. China thing. Since I'm not talking about China, nor do I care since it's not an American unable to get a work visa in China here.
You said the standard of the US Embassy is to check how likely a person is going to return to China and not stay in the US. Which I quite happen to agree based on what my friends and co-workers tell me. Well, can you tell me any reason why Jim would stay in the US beyond the tournament?
On July 26 2013 18:36 Orlandu wrote: Finally, I just want to point out that plenty of Chinese that DON'T have family in the U.S. have no trouble traveling there for short times, even for work. There are a lot of factors involved, but the most important ones are that you can show you have money and/or a stable job, and that you have a reason to return to China. If you give them any reason to question those things, or if you're unclear about what exactly your purpose is, don't be surprised if you get denied. It's unfortunate, but consider all of the factors at play before you get too up into arms over the issue.
Ah, good ole American Xenophobia. Isn't this the reason why we're building higher border fences at the Mexican border and trying to weed out any illegal immigrant hoping to clean our restrooms and pick our fruits?
It's the American way to look at a teenage kid, not even old enough to smoke or drink legally, asking to work in the US for a weekend tournament, and think, "Hmm... do I want to risk this kid staying in the US long term, playing SC2, and taking the jobs of hard working American SC2 players? I mean, I know that he can't actually get his tournament winnings without having a valid visa and all that, so there shouldn't be any reason why he would stay in the US beyond the tournament... But ya never know! Can't take the chance! I mean look at him. He looks nervous. I bet he has something to hide. Nevermind he's 16 and probably doesn't talk to a lot of Americans in his everyday life. He's probably trying to weasel his way into the glory land that is the USA and spend the rest of his life there washing dishes and busing tables."
Visa Rejected!
You sound as if you have a very liberal view of how things should work in the world. If you really think that's xenophobia, you badly need to go out into the world and see for yourself what it's like out there (just for reference, if you want to bring up the subject of xenophobia, the U.S. is nowhere close to China regarding that topic). Ideally, you may be right that people should just be allowed to go wherever, but in reality things aren't that simple. What would you suggest, then? That all of the thousands of Chinese trying to go over to the U.S. every single day, many of whom have much better reasons and support for going to the U.S. than a young StarCraft 2 player who doesn't even have a personal guardian guaranteeing responsibility for him if he overstays or breaks the law (Blizzard does NOT count), should all be granted their visas? If only the world could be so simple.
You're confusing xenophobia with something entirely different. It's not the fault of the U.S. immigration officers that some people in the world don't understand that countries simply can't handle the type of massive immigration that so many people in the world expect to be able to do when it comes to the U.S.. You really, really need to live outside of the U.S. for a few years if you truly believe everything you wrote.
EDIT: For the record, if you're really familiar with China as your location might imply, you'd know that despite your sarcasm, that's exactly what many people DO try to do (push the boundaries of the law and/or stay illegally), especially in China, as for many Chinese it's an obsessive dream.
I'm not sure why this became a US vs. China thing. Since I'm not talking about China, nor do I care since it's not an American unable to get a work visa in China here.
You said the standard of the US Embassy is to check how likely a person is going to return to China and not stay in the US. Which I quite happen to agree based on what my friends and co-workers tell me. Well, can you tell me any reason why Jim would stay in the US beyond the tournament?
same reason most of the people who apply for permanent residency want to get to the US: better opportunities.
not sure this applies to Jim, but that is the reason they are so strict with chinese visas.
On July 26 2013 21:19 _SpiRaL_ wrote: I know it would never happen and to be honest this problem is not just a US thing, but it seems like a pretty good reason to host wcs America elsewhere.
well, Riot has been pretty successful with pushing VISA for LoL players..
Yes, Blizzard, I am staring at you!
I'm getting tired of posting this, but here goes nothing: the visa Riot is getting for LoL players is a work visa that allows athletes to work (play) for an American-based organization. It works for Riot since all the LCS teams are essentially employed by Riot and stay in the US for months at a time.
This kind of visa would only work for Blizzard if 1. they wanted to start paying all the player's salaries and 2. wanted all the players in WCS AM to live in the US permanently. It has nothing to do with Jim not being able to get a visa.
I'm sorry, this is obviously and completely wrong lol.. 1. you don't need to pay all the players' salaries, and 2, you don't need to have the players in WCS AM to live in the US permanently lol
No, you are 100% wrong:
Here is a list of requirements needed to get the P1 visa Riot players have:
Supporting Documents The Form I-129 must include the following documents:
A written consultation from an appropriate labor organization A copy of the contract with a major U.S. sports league or team or a contract in an individual sport commensurate with international recognition in the sport, if such contracts are normally utilized in the sport An explanation of the event and itinerary
Documentation of at least two of the following: Evidence of having participated to a significant extent in a prior season with a major United States sports league Evidence of having participated to a significant extent in international competition with a national team Evidence of having participated to a significant extent in a prior season for a U.S. college or university in intercollegiate competition A written statement from an official of a major U.S. sports league or an official of the governing body of the sport which details how you or your team is internationally recognized A written statement from a member of the sports media or a recognized expert in the sport which details how you or your team is internationally recognized Evidence that you or your team is ranked, if the sport has international rankings Evidence that you or your team has received a significant honor or award in the sport
You will notice the part where it says "a copy of a contract" is a requirement to get the Visa. Contracts require consideration, or payment, to be valid. This means the players MUST be paid by the major US sports league to receive the Visa. People have already gone over this several times in this thread.
On July 26 2013 21:19 _SpiRaL_ wrote: I know it would never happen and to be honest this problem is not just a US thing, but it seems like a pretty good reason to host wcs America elsewhere.
well, Riot has been pretty successful with pushing VISA for LoL players..
Yes, Blizzard, I am staring at you!
There are like 15 pages in this thread explaining why that is not possible for Blizzard unless they want to employ every player in SC2. And there was nothing wrong with the invitation from Blizzard. Blizzard had NOTHING to do with this.
straight from the article: "And most unfortunately, because Blizzard's invitation letter problem, the Visa was denied. " "And most unfortunately, because Blizzard's invitation letter problem, the Visa was denied. " "And most unfortunately, because Blizzard's invitation letter problem, the Visa was denied. "
And how is it not possible for Blizzard to do the same? Riot sponsors every team, so why can't Blizzard sponsor the professional teams as well?
That isn't Blizzard's fault. I doubt they wrote the invitation letter to meet the specific requirements for every player to get a visa in every country. There could be any number of problems that Blizzard would not be aware of, including it not being dated or being to vague.
wow, you couldn't be more blatantly false with your whole interpretation of the thing and the contract part........
like, you should maybe look up what makes a contract legal, you know, it might help your argument
and the other part is just plain stupid....... wow.. you amaze me
On July 26 2013 21:19 _SpiRaL_ wrote: I know it would never happen and to be honest this problem is not just a US thing, but it seems like a pretty good reason to host wcs America elsewhere.
well, Riot has been pretty successful with pushing VISA for LoL players..
Yes, Blizzard, I am staring at you!
I'm getting tired of posting this, but here goes nothing: the visa Riot is getting for LoL players is a work visa that allows athletes to work (play) for an American-based organization. It works for Riot since all the LCS teams are essentially employed by Riot and stay in the US for months at a time.
This kind of visa would only work for Blizzard if 1. they wanted to start paying all the player's salaries and 2. wanted all the players in WCS AM to live in the US permanently. It has nothing to do with Jim not being able to get a visa.
I'm sorry, this is obviously and completely wrong lol.. 1. you don't need to pay all the players' salaries, and 2, you don't need to have the players in WCS AM to live in the US permanently lol
No, you are 100% wrong:
Here is a list of requirements needed to get the P1 visa Riot players have:
Supporting Documents The Form I-129 must include the following documents:
A written consultation from an appropriate labor organization A copy of the contract with a major U.S. sports league or team or a contract in an individual sport commensurate with international recognition in the sport, if such contracts are normally utilized in the sport An explanation of the event and itinerary
Documentation of at least two of the following: Evidence of having participated to a significant extent in a prior season with a major United States sports league Evidence of having participated to a significant extent in international competition with a national team Evidence of having participated to a significant extent in a prior season for a U.S. college or university in intercollegiate competition A written statement from an official of a major U.S. sports league or an official of the governing body of the sport which details how you or your team is internationally recognized A written statement from a member of the sports media or a recognized expert in the sport which details how you or your team is internationally recognized Evidence that you or your team is ranked, if the sport has international rankings Evidence that you or your team has received a significant honor or award in the sport
You will notice the part where it says "a copy of a contract" is a requirement to get the Visa. Contracts require consideration, or payment, to be valid. This means the players MUST be paid by the major US sports league to receive the Visa. People have already gone over this several times in this thread.
On July 27 2013 01:59 dacimvrl wrote:
On July 26 2013 21:43 Plansix wrote:
On July 26 2013 21:23 dacimvrl wrote:
On July 26 2013 21:19 _SpiRaL_ wrote: I know it would never happen and to be honest this problem is not just a US thing, but it seems like a pretty good reason to host wcs America elsewhere.
well, Riot has been pretty successful with pushing VISA for LoL players..
Yes, Blizzard, I am staring at you!
There are like 15 pages in this thread explaining why that is not possible for Blizzard unless they want to employ every player in SC2. And there was nothing wrong with the invitation from Blizzard. Blizzard had NOTHING to do with this.
straight from the article: "And most unfortunately, because Blizzard's invitation letter problem, the Visa was denied. " "And most unfortunately, because Blizzard's invitation letter problem, the Visa was denied. " "And most unfortunately, because Blizzard's invitation letter problem, the Visa was denied. "
And how is it not possible for Blizzard to do the same? Riot sponsors every team, so why can't Blizzard sponsor the professional teams as well?
That isn't Blizzard's fault. I doubt they wrote the invitation letter to meet the specific requirements for every player to get a visa in every country. There could be any number of problems that Blizzard would not be aware of, including it not being dated or being to vague.
wow, you couldn't be more blatantly false with your whole interpretation of the thing and the contract part........
like, you should maybe look up what makes a contract legal, you know, it might help your argument
and the other part is just plain stupid....... wow.. you amaze me
That is the legal definition of a contract. When one agrees to provide a service or service(playing starcraft) for consideration(being paid). That is not my interpretation at all, it is simply fact.
But seriously this is a semi-reason for enforcing geographic restrictions for this kind of tournaments. Not to say "American tournaments for Americans", but stuff like this happens and someone always gets stiffed. Also, blizzard paying every team just to fix these issues seems like a lot of resources used poorly. Riot will do what riot will do, blizzard is not as involved and that is their decision to make.
Sad that he got DQ'd from IEM and even sadder if he can't make it to the WCS Am Ro16. One of the things that really sucks about no region locking is good players from China or Korea for example can take spots in WCS Am and then not be able to attend due to these issues. I hope he and the other chinese players can actually attend because otherwise they are occupying spots from other players who may have been able to attend and thats not good for anyone. :I
I'm so sad for this. I really love Jim's play and was looking forward to seeing how far he'd go. I hope things get ironed out soon. I really hope they don't give their spots away.
On July 25 2013 19:08 Waxangel wrote: they should let jim play his match vs MC tomorrow
they've already let oz-grubby delay their game due to the venue closing before they could play
flexibility is better than rigid rule adherence in this specific case
agreed
The difference is, he is stalling two matches, not only one. I don't know how tight their schedule is, but that certainly is a difference. Also he was not present for the matches at all. I can imagine it might be difficult to get the needed VISAs, but do you need to that on the day of another tournament?
His coach explained that those were the only time slots available.
On July 28 2013 16:08 darkness wrote: Any reason from the US embassy itself to deny a visa? Do they think the guy is dangerous or what? I don't understand what the problem is.
A lot of times when rejection happens, they don't give you a reason. So you don't know what to do to improve you chances, that's the reason why it's very hard.
On July 30 2013 06:04 Brutaxilos wrote: Would it be possible for them to just compete online? I mean I'd be better than just DQing them.
this is actually a decent solution if, in fact, Blizzard's letter was the problem and it was blizzard's fault. however, it would be pretty anti-climactic if he won the tournament. they would award the prize to a skype screen. lol.
On July 30 2013 06:04 Brutaxilos wrote: Would it be possible for them to just compete online? I mean I'd be better than just DQing them.
this is actually a decent solution if, in fact, Blizzard's letter was the problem and it was blizzard's fault. however, it would be pretty anti-climactic if he won the tournament. they would award the prize to a skype screen. lol.
So that would look exactly the same as when Hero won season 1, then?^^
On July 30 2013 07:44 Nerski wrote: The WCS should really start thinking of requiring you have a visa if your not in that region to participate to end all these visa debacles.
Once again, you can't get a visa before hand. You need to have a good reason and "well i might get to x country in a couple months to play a game" is simply not going to cut it.
On July 30 2013 06:04 Brutaxilos wrote: Would it be possible for them to just compete online? I mean I'd be better than just DQing them.
this is actually a decent solution if, in fact, Blizzard's letter was the problem and it was blizzard's fault. however, it would be pretty anti-climactic if he won the tournament. they would award the prize to a skype screen. lol.
So that would look exactly the same as when Hero won season 1, then?^^
And anyway the latency to NA server is apparently not terrible from china... At least better than to europe
Whelp since NA has the easiest player base compared to EU and KR we gotta make up the toughness some how and why not do it by some people not being able to get access here? haha
But seriously this has been a known issue for a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG time when it comes to gaining access to the US for a period of time. In my opinion the managers/teams of the players who entered for WCS NA should have already known the possibilities for this happening.
On July 30 2013 07:44 Nerski wrote: The WCS should really start thinking of requiring you have a visa if your not in that region to participate to end all these visa debacles.
On July 30 2013 07:44 Nerski wrote: The WCS should really start thinking of requiring you have a visa if your not in that region to participate to end all these visa debacles.
thats funny XD
but i mean cerealsly, why couldnt it be amex and/or dc, isnt this discrimination???
Some news regarding their second visa application: the visa officials took away their invitation and passport and told them since they have denial records they must go through a deeper checking process.
On July 30 2013 18:23 digmouse wrote: Some news regarding their second visa application: the visa officials took away their invitation and passport and told them since they have denial records they must go through a deeper checking process.
That's actually pretty good news, as they seem to got further than last time (they'd just said no otherwise).
It blows my mind how blizzard can remove like 3 wcs regions from last year to this one and then expect for players who are getting fucked by this to handle everything by themselves. When they said they were working with players who got the shitty end of the new wcs system I figured they'd handle participation in other regions (which obviously failed @mlg qualifiers) and possible visa issues (especially with chinese this was obv gonna happen), yet they don't do shit and jim has to take care of it by himself when he should actually be busy playing IEM, what a fucking joke wcs is at times.
On July 30 2013 07:44 Nerski wrote: The WCS should really start thinking of requiring you have a visa if your not in that region to participate to end all these visa debacles.
You obviously don't understand visas very well.
I'm not saying it'd be easy to walk in and say 'I might need to go to the USA I need a visa'.
If however, blizzard required it, and did a little work themselves to talk to goverments about allowing visa's for these reasons it'd be possible. Riot has already proven this to be the case allowing pro LoL players to obtain visa's simply on the grounds of being one of their pro players.
I'm not saying this is going to happen, blizzard hasn't shown any signs of doing this. Ideally though this would be the case. I suppose I could have been more specific in stating the comment I did.
On July 30 2013 18:23 digmouse wrote: Some news regarding their second visa application: the visa officials took away their invitation and passport and told them since they have denial records they must go through a deeper checking process.
Is that a good or a bad thing?
Either way, Blizzard should've done either:
a) tell the Chinese scene to go f**k itself (at least this is honest) b) speak to the US government and help the chinese players to get a VISA (preferred solution by me) c) move WCS NA to another country of NA with less tight visa regulations (also nice)
But the most ideal solution would be to give SEA + China an own WCS region.
On July 30 2013 18:23 digmouse wrote: Some news regarding their second visa application: the visa officials took away their invitation and passport and told them since they have denial records they must go through a deeper checking process.
Is that a good or a bad thing?
Either way, Blizzard should've done either:
a) tell the Chinese scene to go f**k itself (at least this is honest) b) speak to the US government and help the chinese players to get a VISA (preferred solution by me) c) move WCS NA to another country of NA with less tight visa regulations (also nice)
But the most ideal solution would be to give SEA + China an own WCS region.
I don't think they are going to move an event to another country just because of two players. Blizzcon is happening in the US and there is nothing short of an earthquake that is gonig to change that.
And it has been said may times before, the USCIS could give two shits about Blizzard and what they want. They may take the call, but at the end of the day the USCIS is going to do what they do and follow the laws that govern them and rules they have in place. And I wouldn't doubt that the USCIS is going to call Blizzard to confirm the invitation is valid and get more information.
On July 30 2013 18:23 digmouse wrote: Some news regarding their second visa application: the visa officials took away their invitation and passport and told them since they have denial records they must go through a deeper checking process.
Is that a good or a bad thing?
Either way, Blizzard should've done either:
a) tell the Chinese scene to go f**k itself (at least this is honest) b) speak to the US government and help the chinese players to get a VISA (preferred solution by me) c) move WCS NA to another country of NA with less tight visa regulations (also nice)
But the most ideal solution would be to give SEA + China an own WCS region.
I guess you never traveled out of your own hemisphere.
On July 30 2013 18:23 digmouse wrote: Some news regarding their second visa application: the visa officials took away their invitation and passport and told them since they have denial records they must go through a deeper checking process.
Is that a good or a bad thing?
Either way, Blizzard should've done either:
a) tell the Chinese scene to go f**k itself (at least this is honest) b) speak to the US government and help the chinese players to get a VISA (preferred solution by me) c) move WCS NA to another country of NA with less tight visa regulations (also nice)
But the most ideal solution would be to give SEA + China an own WCS region.
I don't think they are going to move an event to another country just because of two players. Blizzcon is happening in the US and there is nothing short of an earthquake that is gonig to change that.
And it has been said may times before, the USCIS could give two shits about Blizzard and what they want. They may take the call, but at the end of the day the USCIS is going to do what they do and follow the laws that govern them and rules they have in place. And I wouldn't doubt that the USCIS is going to call Blizzard to confirm the invitation is valid and get more information.
I agree wholeheartedly. Well, I guess that only leaves the answer a) with the current system.
On July 30 2013 18:23 digmouse wrote: Some news regarding their second visa application: the visa officials took away their invitation and passport and told them since they have denial records they must go through a deeper checking process.
Is that a good or a bad thing?
Either way, Blizzard should've done either:
a) tell the Chinese scene to go f**k itself (at least this is honest) b) speak to the US government and help the chinese players to get a VISA (preferred solution by me) c) move WCS NA to another country of NA with less tight visa regulations (also nice)
But the most ideal solution would be to give SEA + China an own WCS region.
I guess you never traveled out of your own hemisphere.
You're right sir, all my travels so far have been restricted to the northern hemisphere only (though that will finally change in the beginning of next year, can't wait for it!).
NetEast (SC2 Chinese operator) announced that they are going to pay all the fees associated with VISA of all Chinese SC2 players from now on (including Jim and MacSed).
No matter how many times players go to VISA, no matter it succeeds or fails, NetEast said that they are going to pay players all the fees. And they will work with Blizzard to provide any support for getting a VISA. Or players encounter any problems related to international events, NetEast said they are going to help out.
This applies to all WCS related international events such as WCS, MLG, IEM, Dreamhack, GSL, OSL, etc.
Jim and MacSed's coach said that they already spend more than 10k RMB ($1630) in fees associated with getting a US VISA for Jim and MacSed.
We're doing everything we can to assist Jim and MacSed with getting their visas. Blizzard staff has been manning phones around the clock, reaching out to contacts, and much more.
At this point we're going to exhaust every avenue to get attention on this, including the twitter of the US embassy in Beijing. Feel free to RT and use the #supportCNesports hashtag.
On July 30 2013 07:44 Nerski wrote: The WCS should really start thinking of requiring you have a visa if your not in that region to participate to end all these visa debacles.
You obviously don't understand visas very well.
I'm not saying it'd be easy to walk in and say 'I might need to go to the USA I need a visa'.
If however, blizzard required it, and did a little work themselves to talk to goverments about allowing visa's for these reasons it'd be possible. Riot has already proven this to be the case allowing pro LoL players to obtain visa's simply on the grounds of being one of their pro players.
I'm not saying this is going to happen, blizzard hasn't shown any signs of doing this. Ideally though this would be the case. I suppose I could have been more specific in stating the comment I did.
Well, Riot is owned by Tencent (which is like the Google and FB of China). So that probably helps.
I feel that Jim needs his visa moreso than macsed... Macsed was able to win HKeSports and qualify for the finals. Jim forfeited his position at IEM Shanghai (more or less) to get his visa denied. On top of this, I feel as though the only results he's produced besides GM rank 1 on ladder would be his all-kill on EG at the Acer Teamstory Cup. He has job security but he needs more than that to tell himself he is a good competitor. Fuzer was GM Rank 1 on NA 6 months ago. Less than a week ago he retired.
I feel that Jim needs his visa moreso than macsed... Macsed was able to win HKeSports and qualify for the finals. Jim forfeited his position at IEM Shanghai (more or less) to get his visa denied. On top of this, I feel as though the only results he's produced besides GM rank 1 on ladder would be his all-kill on EG at the Acer Teamstory Cup. He has job security but he needs more than that to tell himself he is a good competitor. Fuzer was GM Rank 1 on NA 6 months ago. Less than a week ago he retired.
I feel that Jim needs his visa moreso than macsed... Macsed was able to win HKeSports and qualify for the finals. Jim forfeited his position at IEM Shanghai (more or less) to get his visa denied. On top of this, I feel as though the only results he's produced besides GM rank 1 on ladder would be his all-kill on EG at the Acer Teamstory Cup. He has job security but he needs more than that to tell himself he is a good competitor. Fuzer was GM Rank 1 on NA 6 months ago. Less than a week ago he retired.
As a Polt fan, it would be much easier to get to the Ro8 if Jim wasn't allowed to the US, but as a fan of SC2, Jim becoming a star for China and doing well in WCS would be the best for the scene. I also feel bad that everything toppled on top of him when he hasn't really lost in IEM or WCS yet.
Is Jim as good as people say? He seems to be talented, based on a few things like Num1KR GM and that allkill he got. I would like to see some more of him
I also love his nick, something about some of the Chinese/Koreans taking mundane English forenames sometimes amuses me.
I can't wait until we get an Asian pro whose nickname is Paul, no idea why it cracks me up though.
On August 02 2013 18:25 Wombat_NI wrote: Is Jim as good as people say? He seems to be talented, based on a few things like Num1KR GM and that allkill he got. I would like to see some more of him
I also love his nick, something about some of the Chinese/Koreans taking mundane English forenames sometimes amuses me.
I can't wait until we get an Asian pro whose nickname is Paul, no idea why it cracks me up though.
On August 02 2013 18:38 Wombat_NI wrote: Oh he's got good stats, but I'd like a little more I mean is he like, a 'cheesy' Protoss, or a Rain-style defensive collosus?
I'm definitely interested in following him and more Chinese players though.
From the 4 games I saw him play in wcs na he kinda killed them all of with aggressive play, but tbh it felt more like he was a few levels above the competition and didn't have to play out his makro card. I think he is more of an all round protoss (kinda like parting) who will do whatever it takes.
On August 02 2013 18:38 Wombat_NI wrote: Oh he's got good stats, but I'd like a little more I mean is he like, a 'cheesy' Protoss, or a Rain-style defensive collosus?
I'm definitely interested in following him and more Chinese players though.
From the 4 games I saw him play in wcs na he kinda killed them all of with aggressive play, but tbh it felt more like he was a few levels above the competition and didn't have to play out his makro card. I think he is more of an all round protoss (kinda like parting) who will do whatever it takes.
He is above Major or Nestea for sure, I'd say he is at the level of tip top foreign pros like Scarlett, and can compete with mid-level Koreans.
On August 02 2013 18:25 Wombat_NI wrote: Is Jim as good as people say? He seems to be talented, based on a few things like Num1KR GM and that allkill he got. I would like to see some more of him.
We can't really judge yet, he hasn't played a lot of top tier pros in official games so far. He beat Oz which is a pretty good thing, took advantage of JvP, lost to Scarlett twice and Ret once, beat TheStC who is at the lowest point in his career since 2010 and defeated the enigma that is NesTea. Other than that he beat a couple of mediocre NA pros and Shuttle, which doesn't really say much either.
I want to see him play against better players, hopefully he gets a visa for WCS AM, that'd already help quite a bit. I guess it's safe to say he is one of the better foreigners at the moment, but so far he hasn't done as much as you'd think he has done considering the hype surrounding him.
Not his fault though, because he hasn't gotten much of a chance to do so yet.
supposedly he has beaten Innovation, and other kespa players, on KR GM Ladder several times
of course though, Innovation says when he does ladder he doesnt play seriously so....
also regarding his 2-1 with Oz, Oz only took a game off of Jim cause of fast DTs , a build order win
the other 2 games, such as on Neo Planet S with blink stalkers, Jim COMPLETELY outmicroed Oz, like a completely higher tier of micro than Oz was at...so.....
On August 02 2013 18:38 Wombat_NI wrote: Oh he's got good stats, but I'd like a little more I mean is he like, a 'cheesy' Protoss, or a Rain-style defensive collosus?
I'm definitely interested in following him and more Chinese players though.
He has some interesting builds. For example, he's the only protoss I've seen consistently go phoenix play vs terran as drop defense. Pretty impressive seeing drops get shutdown so hard. From what I've seen he seems capable of macro (although he's yet to really face someone whose tax him in that regard), but is not afraid to flip the all-in switch should an early pressure turn up favorable.
On August 02 2013 18:38 Wombat_NI wrote: Oh he's got good stats, but I'd like a little more I mean is he like, a 'cheesy' Protoss, or a Rain-style defensive collosus?
I'm definitely interested in following him and more Chinese players though.
He said in an interview recently that Rain is his favourite player (though he probably is for every Protoss player ) and he tries to play like him. That said his WCS America games were pretty aggressive.
In the grand finals of the 2013 CPL Championship, MarineKing from the losers' bracket won the first best of 3 2-0 to force a 2nd deciding best of 3, where Jim won 2-0 to take home the $3,500 USD 1st place prize in Shenyang, China.
In the grand finals of the 2013 CPL Championship, MarineKing from the losers' bracket won the first best of 3 2-0 to force a 2nd deciding best of 3, where Jim won 2-0 to take home the $3,500 USD 1st place prize in Shenyang, China.
are you sure MKP won a first bo3? Some people were saying in his fan club that it was just Jim 2-1 in the winners' bracket final and then 2-0 in the grand final
EPT
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/9/9a/Jim.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s4.golfmagic.com/forum/smilies/eye_rolling_smiley.gif)
