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Forum Index > SC2 General
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rshawer
Profile Joined December 2012
178 Posts
July 25 2013 23:15 GMT
#361
No its more likely, man, i got a messy room, oh wait here comes blizzard coming with a flamethrower to torch the entire house down, you can't have a messy room without a house right?
Nyvis
Profile Joined November 2012
France284 Posts
July 25 2013 23:17 GMT
#362
On July 26 2013 06:22 GodRcane7 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote:
Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...



I wouldn't see why they couldn't

I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports

I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.


Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS.
Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter.
Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.

Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so.
Nothing to hope from blizzard.
M.R. McThundercrotch
Profile Joined June 2012
United States265 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-25 23:27:01
July 25 2013 23:26 GMT
#363
Thanks, Obama!
On June 30 2012 01:42 iNcontroL wrote: Fuck a lot of you. Fuck you forever.
Iodem
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1173 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-25 23:32:00
July 25 2013 23:27 GMT
#364
They just keep giving me more and more reasons not to watch WCS Korea: Code B.
If you don't like it, you can quit.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 25 2013 23:29 GMT
#365
On July 26 2013 08:17 Nyvis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 06:22 GodRcane7 wrote:
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote:
Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...



I wouldn't see why they couldn't

I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports

I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.


Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS.
Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter.
Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.

Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so.
Nothing to hope from blizzard.

Love it when people comment on thing with the sole purpose of blaming Blizzard. Not matter how little they know, it will always be LoL or Dota vs Blizzard and how it's all blizzards fault.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
July 25 2013 23:30 GMT
#366
On July 26 2013 08:17 Nyvis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 06:22 GodRcane7 wrote:
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote:
Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...



I wouldn't see why they couldn't

I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports

I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.


Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS.
Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter.
Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.

Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so.
Nothing to hope from blizzard.

On July 26 2013 08:27 Iodem wrote:
Blizzard just keeps giving me more and more reasons not to watch WCS Korea: Code B.


............And this is why I've stopped going to the SC2 boards.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Mutineer
Profile Joined March 2013
New Zealand179 Posts
July 25 2013 23:34 GMT
#367
US make it very dificult to get Visa in some countries. I remeber in Russia in 1997 one had to stay in line for 12 hours like 3-5 days in a row in order to apply for US visa.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 25 2013 23:35 GMT
#368
On July 26 2013 08:30 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 08:17 Nyvis wrote:
On July 26 2013 06:22 GodRcane7 wrote:
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote:
Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...



I wouldn't see why they couldn't

I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports

I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.


Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS.
Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter.
Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.

Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so.
Nothing to hope from blizzard.

Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 08:27 Iodem wrote:
Blizzard just keeps giving me more and more reasons not to watch WCS Korea: Code B.


............And this is why I've stopped going to the SC2 boards.

Yeah, I think the general discussion are the balance/blizzard whine sections of the community. No matter what, it's alway a balance to blizzard problem.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Iodem
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1173 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-25 23:40:37
July 25 2013 23:35 GMT
#369
On July 26 2013 08:30 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 08:17 Nyvis wrote:
On July 26 2013 06:22 GodRcane7 wrote:
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote:
Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...



I wouldn't see why they couldn't

I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports

I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.


Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS.
Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter.
Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.

Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so.
Nothing to hope from blizzard.

Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 08:27 Iodem wrote:
Blizzard just keeps giving me more and more reasons not to watch WCS Korea: Code B.


............And this is why I've stopped going to the SC2 boards.


Erm, what? Why?

Blizzard expresses interest but doesn't seem to put forth as much effort as other companies do into expanding their esport. We've gone for three years without LAN(except those who are willing to pay for a security squad to keep it out of the hands of pirates), and we still have lag/dropout issues in tournaments. When LoL started having crashing issues in tournaments Riot immediately came out with a LAN solution.

Also, I misspoke in my initial post. There have been a lot of elements that have made WCS America a tournament that I don't care about. Some are in blizzard's hands, while others(like this one) are not. We don't know what's going on under wraps at blizzard and if they're lobbying with the government right now or not.

But things like the fact that they let Violet compete in the Ro32 after admitting to having no way to get into America for the Ro16 just baffles me. It screws over the two people who lost to him, while others get a free ride in the Ro16. At that time, not all challenger league qualifiers had been completed, and they could've offered him a region transfer to somewhere he could actually compete.
If you don't like it, you can quit.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 25 2013 23:43 GMT
#370
On July 26 2013 08:35 Iodem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 08:30 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On July 26 2013 08:17 Nyvis wrote:
On July 26 2013 06:22 GodRcane7 wrote:
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote:
Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...



I wouldn't see why they couldn't

I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports

I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.


Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS.
Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter.
Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.

Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so.
Nothing to hope from blizzard.

On July 26 2013 08:27 Iodem wrote:
Blizzard just keeps giving me more and more reasons not to watch WCS Korea: Code B.


............And this is why I've stopped going to the SC2 boards.


Erm, what? Why?

Blizzard expresses interest but doesn't seem to put forth as much effort as other companies do into expanding their esport. We've gone for three years without LAN(except those who are willing to pay for a security squad to keep it out of the hands of pirates), and we still have lag/dropout issues in tournaments. When LoL started having crashing issues in tournaments Riot immediately came out with a LAN solution.

Also, I misspoke in my initial post. There have been a lot of elements that have made WCS America a tournament that I don't care about. Some are in blizzard's hands, while others(like this one) are not. We don't know what's going on under wraps at blizzard and if they're lobbying with the government right now or not.

Because he knows what will be here, endless complaining about things may or not be Blizzards fault. No one is happy and everyone says "we are holding them to higher standards because we care! If they did better we wouldn't whine." Because blizzard controls the USCIS...

Watching demuslim play in WCS NA.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
igay
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Australia1178 Posts
July 25 2013 23:45 GMT
#371
On July 25 2013 19:04 Cokefreak wrote:
Visas are killing eSports.


Calm down lol
MVP <3 MKP <3 DRG <3
Nyvis
Profile Joined November 2012
France284 Posts
July 25 2013 23:48 GMT
#372
On July 26 2013 08:29 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 08:17 Nyvis wrote:
On July 26 2013 06:22 GodRcane7 wrote:
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote:
Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...



I wouldn't see why they couldn't

I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports

I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.


Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS.
Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter.
Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.

Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so.
Nothing to hope from blizzard.

Love it when people comment on thing with the sole purpose of blaming Blizzard. Not matter how little they know, it will always be LoL or Dota vs Blizzard and how it's all blizzards fault.


And some others come and say "no, it's normal that a bigger, well established company give less support to their game than new companies jumping into it. And it's normal to extort money from the actors of your esport scene, the ones who keep your game alive. It's totally not blizzard fault if they have a shitty business plan esport wise compared to every other company implicated in it. No, definitely, it must be the evil and angry poster imagining things".

It's just facts. Riot, a smaller company with less influence can do it, can throw a lot of money to help esport and help their players get their visas. And it works for them. But blizzard is known to be very stubborn and won't change it's ways, even if the concurrent companies are doing better going another way. They'll keep trying to get a short term return from esport instead of trying to build on it long term to attract people, and for sure won't throw more efforts to help it.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-25 23:51:50
July 25 2013 23:49 GMT
#373
On July 26 2013 08:35 Iodem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 08:30 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On July 26 2013 08:17 Nyvis wrote:
On July 26 2013 06:22 GodRcane7 wrote:
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote:
Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...



I wouldn't see why they couldn't

I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports

I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.


Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS.
Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter.
Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.

Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so.
Nothing to hope from blizzard.

On July 26 2013 08:27 Iodem wrote:
Blizzard just keeps giving me more and more reasons not to watch WCS Korea: Code B.


............And this is why I've stopped going to the SC2 boards.


Erm, what? Why?

Blizzard expresses interest but doesn't seem to put forth as much effort as other companies do into expanding their esport. We've gone for three years without LAN(except those who are willing to pay for a security squad to keep it out of the hands of pirates), and we still have lag/dropout issues in tournaments. When LoL started having crashing issues in tournaments Riot immediately came out with a LAN solution.

Also, I misspoke in my initial post. There have been a lot of elements that have made WCS America a tournament that I don't care about. Some are in blizzard's hands, while others(like this one) are not. We don't know what's going on under wraps at blizzard and if they're lobbying with the government right now or not.

But things like the fact that they let Violet compete in the Ro32 after admitting to having no way to get into America for the Ro16 just baffles me. It screws over the two people who lost to him, while others get a free ride in the Ro16. At that time, not all challenger league qualifiers had been completed, and they could've offered him a region transfer to somewhere he could actually compete.

Yeah...I'm not rehashing these arguments again...

I'm sick of seeing every thread turning into Blizzard bashing by people who can't read or comprehend context. I'm sick of people thinking "Riot did it" is a valid argument for anything. I'm sick of anything and everything turning into an excuse for pitchforks.

The Starcraft community, as a whole, has become toxic and pathetic, and the only way I can enjoy SC2 competition anymore is by watching and never, ever visiting any SC2 topic.


On July 26 2013 08:48 Nyvis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 08:29 Plansix wrote:
On July 26 2013 08:17 Nyvis wrote:
On July 26 2013 06:22 GodRcane7 wrote:
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote:
Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...



I wouldn't see why they couldn't

I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports

I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.


Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS.
Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter.
Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.

Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so.
Nothing to hope from blizzard.

Love it when people comment on thing with the sole purpose of blaming Blizzard. Not matter how little they know, it will always be LoL or Dota vs Blizzard and how it's all blizzards fault.


And some others come and say "no, it's normal that a bigger, well established company give less support to their game than new companies jumping into it. And it's normal to extort money from the actors of your esport scene, the ones who keep your game alive. It's totally not blizzard fault if they have a shitty business plan esport wise compared to every other company implicated in it. No, definitely, it must be the evil and angry poster imagining things".

It's just facts. Riot, a smaller company with less influence can do it, can throw a lot of money to help esport and help their players get their visas. And it works for them. But blizzard is known to be very stubborn and won't change it's ways, even if the concurrent companies are doing better going another way. They'll keep trying to get a short term return from esport instead of trying to build on it long term to attract people, and for sure won't throw more efforts to help it.

Case in point...
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 25 2013 23:53 GMT
#374
On July 26 2013 08:48 Nyvis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 08:29 Plansix wrote:
On July 26 2013 08:17 Nyvis wrote:
On July 26 2013 06:22 GodRcane7 wrote:
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote:
Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...



I wouldn't see why they couldn't

I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports

I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.


Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS.
Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter.
Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.

Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so.
Nothing to hope from blizzard.

Love it when people comment on thing with the sole purpose of blaming Blizzard. Not matter how little they know, it will always be LoL or Dota vs Blizzard and how it's all blizzards fault.


And some others come and say "no, it's normal that a bigger, well established company give less support to their game than new companies jumping into it. And it's normal to extort money from the actors of your esport scene, the ones who keep your game alive. It's totally not blizzard fault if they have a shitty business plan esport wise compared to every other company implicated in it. No, definitely, it must be the evil and angry poster imagining things".

It's just facts. Riot, a smaller company with less influence can do it, can throw a lot of money to help esport and help their players get their visas. And it works for them. But blizzard is known to be very stubborn and won't change it's ways, even if the concurrent companies are doing better going another way. They'll keep trying to get a short term return from esport instead of trying to build on it long term to attract people, and for sure won't throw more efforts to help it.

Your wrong, you can't get P1 visas unless the player has a contract with a major sports league. Unless Blizzard is willing to employ everyone who qualifies, they can't get visas of that kind. But it's not like you care, it's all about the Blizzard hate train and praising Riot, who still doesn't have replays 4 years later.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
July 25 2013 23:53 GMT
#375
On July 26 2013 08:48 Nyvis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 08:29 Plansix wrote:
On July 26 2013 08:17 Nyvis wrote:
On July 26 2013 06:22 GodRcane7 wrote:
On July 26 2013 06:06 SupLilSon wrote:
Guys... guys... Blizzard is MASSIVE! Probably worth billions if not trillions, pretty sure Browder is one of the richest men in the world tbh... OFC Blizzard can get him a visa with their immense global influence...



I wouldn't see why they couldn't

I mean Riot Games got their players 'Athlete' visas for the sake of their travelling and what-not through intensive lobbying for the betterment of e-sports

I don't see why Blizzard can't.do something similar.


Because blizzard doesn't realize esport is the only reason SC2 is more than just another RTS.
Riot is really aware of the importance of esport for their game. Blizzard still think they are the only thing that matter.
Unless they change their opinion and start moving on that, there will be no change and no help from them.

Look: blizzard makes people pay to broadcast their games. Riot pays them to do so.
Nothing to hope from blizzard.

Love it when people comment on thing with the sole purpose of blaming Blizzard. Not matter how little they know, it will always be LoL or Dota vs Blizzard and how it's all blizzards fault.


And some others come and say "no, it's normal that a bigger, well established company give less support to their game than new companies jumping into it. And it's normal to extort money from the actors of your esport scene, the ones who keep your game alive. It's totally not blizzard fault if they have a shitty business plan esport wise compared to every other company implicated in it. No, definitely, it must be the evil and angry poster imagining things".

It's just facts. Riot, a smaller company with less influence can do it, can throw a lot of money to help esport and help their players get their visas. And it works for them. But blizzard is known to be very stubborn and won't change it's ways, even if the concurrent companies are doing better going another way. They'll keep trying to get a short term return from esport instead of trying to build on it long term to attract people, and for sure won't throw more efforts to help it.

and, there is nothing wrong with blizzard doing any of that. they are in it for the money; they are a commercial organization after all. i am not sure anyone believes blizzard is a charitable organization.
Iodem
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1173 Posts
July 25 2013 23:54 GMT
#376
On July 26 2013 08:49 WolfintheSheep wrote:
I'm sick of people thinking "Riot did it" is a valid argument for anything.


It's on the same level of people asking "Why doesn't soccer use instant replay when determining calls when almost every other modern sport does?" How is it wrong to compare SC2 to other eSports in the same regard?


If you don't like it, you can quit.
Yorbon
Profile Joined December 2011
Netherlands4272 Posts
July 26 2013 00:00 GMT
#377
This page makes me puke.
statement below says the rest.
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
July 26 2013 00:03 GMT
#378
On July 26 2013 08:54 Iodem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 08:49 WolfintheSheep wrote:
I'm sick of people thinking "Riot did it" is a valid argument for anything.


It's on the same level of people asking "Why doesn't soccer use instant replay when determining calls when almost every other modern sport does?" How is it wrong to compare SC2 to other eSports in the same regard?

No, it's on the same level as "ants lift 50 times their weight, why can't people?"

If you think "Riot did it" is remotely relevant when it comes to work visas, you are complete and utterly clueless.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Iodem
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1173 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-26 00:07:52
July 26 2013 00:07 GMT
#379
On July 26 2013 09:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 08:54 Iodem wrote:
On July 26 2013 08:49 WolfintheSheep wrote:
I'm sick of people thinking "Riot did it" is a valid argument for anything.


It's on the same level of people asking "Why doesn't soccer use instant replay when determining calls when almost every other modern sport does?" How is it wrong to compare SC2 to other eSports in the same regard?

No, it's on the same level as "ants lift 50 times their weight, why can't people?"

If you think "Riot did it" is remotely relevant when it comes to work visas, you are complete and utterly clueless.


Like I said before, there's no proof that Blizzard isn't already trying to lobby for work visas. What I have mentioned is their stubbornness on LAN.

and how is that comparison even close to mine?
If you don't like it, you can quit.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 26 2013 00:37 GMT
#380
On July 26 2013 09:07 Iodem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2013 09:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:
On July 26 2013 08:54 Iodem wrote:
On July 26 2013 08:49 WolfintheSheep wrote:
I'm sick of people thinking "Riot did it" is a valid argument for anything.


It's on the same level of people asking "Why doesn't soccer use instant replay when determining calls when almost every other modern sport does?" How is it wrong to compare SC2 to other eSports in the same regard?

No, it's on the same level as "ants lift 50 times their weight, why can't people?"

If you think "Riot did it" is remotely relevant when it comes to work visas, you are complete and utterly clueless.


Like I said before, there's no proof that Blizzard isn't already trying to lobby for work visas. What I have mentioned is their stubbornness on LAN.

and how is that comparison even close to mine?

No other company has LAN either. It's all online only. Yet you blame Blizzard for something everyone else does too.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
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