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On July 16 2013 09:04 MaestroSC wrote:
LoL World Finals are being held at the fucking STAPLES CENTER... you know.. WHERE THE LOS ANGELES LAKERS, maybe the most prolific/notorious sports/franchises in the world play?
Because they managed to sell out a college basketball stadium last year.
Seriously instead of hating on and bashing another game, which is by FAR the most successful esport game in the history of the planet, you should grow up and focus on being positive for your own game and not hateful toward others.
Snide jabs like that are what usually triggers the negative responses and escalate things. How successful a game is and where the finals are being played is hardly relevant to this discussion. Why do you feel the need to bring it up here?
Anyhow, this thread is mostly about esports comminities taking themselves too seriously (as per usual). It's a marketing ploy for a handful of companies, they're going to push the most popular games to get the highest ROI. We're watching glorified ads, it just so happens that sometimes they involve a video game we like.
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I don't know...
I really don't see the point or need why all the gaming communities should hold hands and "unite" under the flag of esports for the greater good. And NBA, NFL, MLB, E-sports doesn't make any sense to me either.
Let me explain what I mean:
- I am all in favour of treating each other with respect and not bashing anybody or anything on the grounds of a video game (or any personal interest for that matter), but
- as many others before me posted: I like certain games for playing others for watching and others I just don't give a fuck about, they don't interest me in the slightest and honestly it wouldn't bother me if they didn't exist at all. But I would never go out of my way (making a thread or post etc.) to let people know the game they like sucks (because I don't like it) and the game I like is the pride of videogame creation. That's just stupid but it brings us to
- bashing and flaming of other games. If people think this goes just on in the "e-sports world" than they are tragically mistaken. You obviously never heard how some people in my football (soccer) team talk about curling (quote:"those fucking fags with their brooms"...idiots are not an exclusive feature of e-sports) or synchronised swimming or how skiers and snowboarders talked about each other in the beginning. And these are just extreme examples, generally people think the sport they have chosen to do (or support) is cooler or superior to others. So...
- ...why is it different with video games? It really isn't, the only real big difference is that gamers are native inhabitants of the same space: the computer and by that I mean the internet. Through this relative closeness and the connectivity in the "gaming community" hateful posts seldom remain undetected and unresponded to, and things easily are blown up out of proportion.
- as for the "NBA, NFL, MLB, E-sports" idea: Some time ago there was an initiative in order make SC2 an olympic discipline. I don't know how serious this was but I think contrary to the whole "united e-sports" concept this is more the way to go. A promising game (which one doesn't matter) should lead the charge for "recoginition" and get a foot in the door for all the other games, instead of trying to unite every game in the world under the e-sports flag and therfore creating an inconsistent and unclear construct which nobody will understand and even less acknowledge.
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Sports trashing eachother is definitely real but it's massive turn off for me there as it is here. I simply cannot and will not put up with the strange kind of arrogance or small penis syndrome or whatever the hell it is which encourages people to focus so much negative energy on entertainment which they don't consume. It's especially bothersome when i actually enjoy the content of both the person talking trash, and that of which they're talking trash about. Are you trying to drive me away from your sport/game?
Fans are fans, and the masses are asses, so i don't neccessarily blink an eye when fanbois behave like fanbois. But from the higher ups like the players themselves, the commentators and analysts, surely these people could hold themselves to a higher standard. When those people lower themselves to that of the feral fanboi it turns me off big time.
I don't know how many others feel the same as i do but i hope people realise the sheer volume of content i have at my disposal. There is a lot. I've got shitloads of crap TV channels, then there's new media vomitting out so much content that i really should be a lot fatter than i am. And don't get me started on the backlog of books and video games i've yet to touch (fucking steam sales).
If you're a dick I'll change the channel. Glady.
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If the problem with the sc2 community was just not giving a shit about other games, we would be fine.
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Why would i watch a game i have no interest in? To support E-Sports? Lol.
I love to watch Dota 2 and I like to play it. It's also the only game were i sometimes watch playerstreams because they actually seem to have fun while playing.
League? Ive got about 150 games and never ever touched it as soon as i got Dota 2... Oh and Riot shall burn + i don't unerstand why anyone would play this over Dota. So "supporting" this is not really in my interest anyway?
SC2? I watch some of it due to SC/BW nostalgia but honestly, it could just be gone and it would most probably even bring a smile on my face (it's just fucking disgrace to SC/BW and my "sadness" about what Blizzard brought us here has long grown into plain anger). TL could then go full Dota 2 and i would be a really happy guy.
Well, it's sadly still the best "new" RTS to play (because basically all others are bad or not supported) so i can understand why someone would play this... Somewhat... Actually.. Just do yourself a favour and get SC/BW and play a truely great game.
CS (1.6, Source, GO)? I played some 1.6 and Source but never understood the general appeal as a spectator sport and never will  .
Quake (and Fighting games)? Are pretty cool to watch from time to time because these guys are freaking awesome. I don't give a shit about the communities tho but some more Quake tournaments wouldn't hurt.
As for supporting E-Sports in general:
I actually bought an ASUS Notebook because i like the GD studio and wanted a gaming notebook anyway on the other side, I'll never ever buy a can of Monster because their constant product placement makes me wanna womit.
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On July 16 2013 18:59 Velr wrote:
SC2? I watch some of it due to SC/BW nostalgia but honestly, it could just be gone and it would most probably even bring a smile on my face (it's just fucking disgrace to SC/BW and my "sadness" about what Blizzard brought us here has long grown into plain anger). TL could then go full Dota 2 and i would be a really happy guy.
Well, it's sadly still the best "new" RTS to play (because basically all others are bad or not supported) so i can understand why someone would play this... Somewhat... Actually.. Just do yourself a favour and get SC/BW and play a truely great game.
This is pretty much the perfect example of what SC2 fans do to LoL now; it started out with BW fans doing it to SC2 fans (and that's kinda become less popular as time went on, but obviously it still happens)
Standing on a box and shouting that you think X is a better game than Y is utterly pointless whether it's SC2 -> LoL or BW -> SC2. This post did it in an SC2 forum; it's like going into /r/leagueoflegends and telling people about how SC2 is so much better.
Frankly, though, I don't trust people to have any level of critical thinking that allows them to recognise that wasting their time being negative is entirely not useful. If everyone took their negative, worthless opinions and turned them into positive energy for their own scene, it'd be great for all scenes, but it won't happen because people love to hate and feel superior because of things that frankly don't matter.
So, worrying about people doing silly things like unproductive hate spreading is kinda pointless as far as I'm concerned and unfortunately and calls for it to stop will fall on deaf ears. Better to focus on other things.
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On July 16 2013 18:59 Velr wrote:SC2? I watch some of it due to SC/BW nostalgia but honestly, it could just be gone and it would most probably even bring a smile on my face (it's just fucking disgrace to SC/BW and my "sadness" about what Blizzard brought us here has long grown into plain anger). TL could then go full Dota 2 and i would be a really happy guy.
Well, it's sadly still the best "new" RTS to play (because basically all others are bad or not supported) so i can understand why someone would play this... Somewhat... Actually.. Just do yourself a favour and get SC/BW and play a truely great game.
Know what? I recently gave BW a try, and didn't like it as much. I prefer SC2, after having played both.
Also, I find posts like this completely pointless, and probably counterproductive.
As the guy above me said, if you go onto a LOL forum and start telling everyone to play a "Real" game, sc2, then not only are you going to achieve nothing, but your going to create a dislike and annoyance at sc2.
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On July 16 2013 17:02 Little-Chimp wrote:
Obviously crying and bitching is pretty useless but I like having some healthy competition around. And make no mistake, it IS competition. Tons of lower level players in particular (but not only them) have left SC2 for LoL. You can only imagine that the competition is more fierce between DOTA and LoL, being so similar.
We should be trying to figure out how to improve our section of E-Sports, or the game itself. Irrational hate is stupid, trying to beat the competition is not.
it would make sense if you were in charge of the marketing department at Blizzard. They wanna beat their competition. To me, this trail of thought is not understandable as a fan. I like my game, i play my game, i tell people why i do so. I feel it is not my duty to convince people why my game is better than their game or to "support" my game by throwing money at it's sponsors.
Making Sc2 successful is Blizzard's job, not the job of sc2 fans.
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How can we improve as a Community?
1. Let people enjoy whatever they damn please. Don't bash people just because they like some other game, and likewise don't try to get people to watch games that they don't care about just for some bullshit "supporting esports" cause.
2. Stop caring so much about completely worthless drama. Stop trying to create drama.
There, two rules that if adhered to will definitely "improve the community" by orders of magnitude.
Not that anyone will follow them. It seems like every month we have a thread like this and yet nothing ever changes...
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On July 16 2013 19:21 Gben592 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 18:59 Velr wrote:SC2? I watch some of it due to SC/BW nostalgia but honestly, it could just be gone and it would most probably even bring a smile on my face (it's just fucking disgrace to SC/BW and my "sadness" about what Blizzard brought us here has long grown into plain anger). TL could then go full Dota 2 and i would be a really happy guy.
Well, it's sadly still the best "new" RTS to play (because basically all others are bad or not supported) so i can understand why someone would play this... Somewhat... Actually.. Just do yourself a favour and get SC/BW and play a truely great game.
Know what? I recently gave BW a try, and didn't like it as much. I prefer SC2, after having played both. Also, I find posts like this completely pointless, and probably counterproductive. As the guy above me said, if you go onto a LOL forum and start telling everyone to play a "Real" game, sc2, then not only are you going to achieve nothing, but your going to create a dislike and annoyance at sc2.
And i never did this? I know that arguing this stuff is pointless, all i do is tell friends/people i know that play Lol to try out Dota.
As for SC2... Well, i barely know anyone anymore(from playing with/against) that still plays it, so aside from the occasional bitching here I have not many people to talk about it or then they share many of my views anyway  .
My main point was... I care about Dota 2 and really don't care much what "EPSORTS" is doing in general, Dota 2 seems to be doing fine and that is all that matters to me now. I don't see a single reason to support other ESPORTS.
Just because i like to watch downhill Snowboarding doesn't mean i have to like Formula 1 or support it in any way, why would I, because Red Bull sponsores both? Thats just flawed logic to me.
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On July 16 2013 19:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
How can we improve as a Community?
1. Let people enjoy whatever they damn please. Don't bash people just because they like some other game, and likewise don't try to get people to watch games that they don't care about just for some bullshit "supporting esports" cause.
2. Stop caring so much about completely worthless drama. Stop trying to create drama.
There, two rules that if adhered to will definitely "improve the community" by orders of magnitude.
Not that anyone will follow them. It seems like every month we have a thread like this and yet nothing ever changes...
I think that's going a bit far. The biggest issue of division has mostly to do with ignorance of each others scene. Being a Tennis player in America; I grew up with a pretty huge "that's a gay sport" or "high class sport" stigmata. I don't think anyone realistically expect everyone to support every possible esports; but what we can do as a community is have an open and even dialogue in regards to educating everyone about their respective esports/scene before people make stupid prejudice judgement of their games; such as "low skill cap" or "takes less skill" or "your scene is full of 12 year olds".
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On July 16 2013 20:25 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 19:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
How can we improve as a Community?
1. Let people enjoy whatever they damn please. Don't bash people just because they like some other game, and likewise don't try to get people to watch games that they don't care about just for some bullshit "supporting esports" cause.
2. Stop caring so much about completely worthless drama. Stop trying to create drama.
There, two rules that if adhered to will definitely "improve the community" by orders of magnitude.
Not that anyone will follow them. It seems like every month we have a thread like this and yet nothing ever changes... I think that's going a bit far. The biggest issue of division has mostly to do with ignorance of each others scene. Being a Tennis player in America; I grew up with a pretty huge "that's a gay sport" or "high class sport" stigmata. I don't think anyone realistically expect everyone to support every possible esports; but what we can do as a community is have an open and even dialogue in regards to educating everyone about their respective esports/scene before people make stupid prejudice judgement of their games; such as "low skill cap" or "takes less skill" or "your scene is full of 12 year olds".
You're right, but at the same time I don't think you're aware how many people go around these forums telling people to proactively watch tournaments of others games otherwise they're "hurting esports" and being 100% serious about it. It's one thing to try and educate people on a game, it's another thing altogether to tell try and guilt trip them that they're hurting some abstract and arbitrary notion of "esports" that you have in your head. That's what I meant by that.
Plus, it goes without saying that anyone who adamantly argues his opinion without having any idea what they're talking about (in this case, what you're saying that some people think some games have a low skill cap despite never having watched them etc) is a moron and should not be taken seriously.
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On July 16 2013 20:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 20:25 wei2coolman wrote:On July 16 2013 19:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
How can we improve as a Community?
1. Let people enjoy whatever they damn please. Don't bash people just because they like some other game, and likewise don't try to get people to watch games that they don't care about just for some bullshit "supporting esports" cause.
2. Stop caring so much about completely worthless drama. Stop trying to create drama.
There, two rules that if adhered to will definitely "improve the community" by orders of magnitude.
Not that anyone will follow them. It seems like every month we have a thread like this and yet nothing ever changes... I think that's going a bit far. The biggest issue of division has mostly to do with ignorance of each others scene. Being a Tennis player in America; I grew up with a pretty huge "that's a gay sport" or "high class sport" stigmata. I don't think anyone realistically expect everyone to support every possible esports; but what we can do as a community is have an open and even dialogue in regards to educating everyone about their respective esports/scene before people make stupid prejudice judgement of their games; such as "low skill cap" or "takes less skill" or "your scene is full of 12 year olds". You're right, but at the same time I don't think you're aware how many people go around these forums telling people to proactively watch tournaments of others games otherwise they're "hurting esports" and being 100% serious about it. It's one thing to try and educate people on a game, it's another thing altogether to tell try and guilt trip them that they're hurting some abstract and arbitrary notion of "esports" that you have in your head. That's what I meant by that. Plus, it goes without saying that anyone who adamantly argues his opinion without having any idea what they're talking about (in this case, what you're saying that some people think some games have a low skill cap despite never having watched them etc) is a moron and should not be taken seriously.
Have you not read the comments in threads like these? Most of the arguments as to why "my esport is better than your esports" is essentially an argument out of ignorance; not of knowledge.
I'm addressing the masses; not specific cases; and in regards to "watching other tournaments"; I just recently watched EVO, even though I never keep up with FGC; holy shit was it amazing. That top 8 story line/games for SSFIV:AE was fucking ridiculous. It was so awesome! Now; my experiences not withstanding; the main reason I'd suggest people to watch other game tournament is mostly as a way to educate them in other scenes. If it's not your cup of tea; that's fine, but fucking try it before saying it sucks.
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On July 16 2013 17:06 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 09:04 MaestroSC wrote:
LoL World Finals are being held at the fucking STAPLES CENTER... you know.. WHERE THE LOS ANGELES LAKERS, maybe the most prolific/notorious sports/franchises in the world play?
Because they managed to sell out a college basketball stadium last year.
Seriously instead of hating on and bashing another game, which is by FAR the most successful esport game in the history of the planet, you should grow up and focus on being positive for your own game and not hateful toward others. Snide jabs like that are what usually triggers the negative responses and escalate things. How successful a game is and where the finals are being played is hardly relevant to this discussion. Why do you feel the need to bring it up here? Anyhow, this thread is mostly about esports comminities taking themselves too seriously (as per usual). It's a marketing ploy for a handful of companies, they're going to push the most popular games to get the highest ROI. We're watching glorified ads, it just so happens that sometimes they involve a video game we like.
I would also point out that WCS could be hosted at the Staples Center if Blizzard was dumping as much money into WCS as Riot is. But things like the Staples Center will go away when LoL isn't the biggest game in the world. Its all marketing and how much budget they have.
I think communities need to accept studios like NASL and MLG working with other games. The more games, the easier it is for them to have great production. Sure one game will be the focus, but the more talented staff and studio will bring all games up. Its less about how much money is Blizzard dumping into the scene and more about how much money can these studios make off of us watching SC2 and other Esports(if you like other games).
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When LCS players aren't contractually forbidden from mentioning competing games in social media I will support a 'unified' esports.
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On July 16 2013 21:56 Plansix wrote:
I would also point out that WCS could be hosted at the Staples Center if Blizzard was dumping as much money into WCS as Riot is. But things like the Staples Center will go away when LoL isn't the biggest game in the world. Its all marketing and how much budget they have.
chicken-egg.
Riot has the money to do this because a lot of people already spend and continue to spend a lot of money on LoL.
How did LoL get to be "the biggest game in the world"?
To assess the "success" of any live event you need access to the gate and paid attendance numbers.
Both, the Toronto Rock lacrosse team and the Maple Leafs hockey team "sell out the building" for playoff games.
The "gate" is $7,000,000 for a Maple Leafs game and under $300,000 for lacrosse games.
"sell out at a college basketball stadium" says not much.
who knows, maybe Riot made a few million at last year's event "in a college basketball stadium"... or maybe they barely broke even.
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On July 16 2013 22:20 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 21:56 Plansix wrote:
I would also point out that WCS could be hosted at the Staples Center if Blizzard was dumping as much money into WCS as Riot is. But things like the Staples Center will go away when LoL isn't the biggest game in the world. Its all marketing and how much budget they have. chicken-egg.Riot has the money to do this because a lot of people already spend and continue to spend a lot of money on LoL. How did LoL get to be "the biggest game in the world"? To assess the "success" of any live event you need access to the gate and paid attendance numbers. Both, the Toronto Rock lacrosse team and the Maple Leafs hockey team "sell out the building" for playoff games. The "gate" is $7,000,000 for a Maple Leafs game and under $300,000 for lacrosse games. "sell out at a college basketball stadium" says not much. who knows, maybe Riot made a few million at last year's event "in a college basketball stadium"... or maybe they barely broke even.
There is no chicken and the egg here, Jimmy. LoL had one of the largest user bases in the world before it created the LCS some time ago. They made LCS after they got to that level. Having the LCS doesn't hurt Riot and is likley the best marketing money they could be spending., but I can't be sure they make money directly from the producing the LCS(make money directly from the broadcast, rather than inspire people to buy more champs and skins). Maybe they will make money off the Staples Center if they can fill it. But if the game becomes less popular, they won't, so it wouldn't make sense to rent it out.
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I play LoL when I don't have the apm in me to play SC2.
Now with that said, SC2 community has to stop QQing about numbers because all expansions are not out yet! Pseudo beta if you will.
With LoL it is similar to soccer, much easier to kick a can around and call it soccer.
I see SC as golf, harder to play without funding. Greater reward individually though.
There needs to be more slutty males doing stuff with E-Sports, we have the booth girls, not enough Bisu's.
Time SC community, just time.
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On July 16 2013 22:39 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 22:20 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On July 16 2013 21:56 Plansix wrote:
I would also point out that WCS could be hosted at the Staples Center if Blizzard was dumping as much money into WCS as Riot is. But things like the Staples Center will go away when LoL isn't the biggest game in the world. Its all marketing and how much budget they have. chicken-egg.Riot has the money to do this because a lot of people already spend and continue to spend a lot of money on LoL. How did LoL get to be "the biggest game in the world"? To assess the "success" of any live event you need access to the gate and paid attendance numbers. Both, the Toronto Rock lacrosse team and the Maple Leafs hockey team "sell out the building" for playoff games. The "gate" is $7,000,000 for a Maple Leafs game and under $300,000 for lacrosse games. "sell out at a college basketball stadium" says not much. who knows, maybe Riot made a few million at last year's event "in a college basketball stadium"... or maybe they barely broke even. There is no chicken and the egg here, Jimmy. LoL had one of the largest user bases in the world before it created the LCS some time ago. They made LCS after they got to that level. Having the LCS doesn't hurt Riot and is likley the best marketing money they could be spending., but I can't be sure they make money directly from the producing the LCS(make money directly from the broadcast, rather than inspire people to buy more champs and skins). Maybe they will make money off the Staples Center if they can fill it. But if the game becomes less popular, they won't, so it wouldn't make sense to rent it out.
great job re-asking the questions i posted
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Implying this is the community's job to attract more people. Everyone knows Blizzard is failing hard and their poor attempts to copy Riot are useless. If there is someone to blame it's Blizzard.
I guess it's easier for Axeltoss to blame the community since Blizzard doesn't give a shit about how big his e-penis is.
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EPT
