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On July 18 2013 08:25 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 08:06 theking1 wrote:On July 18 2013 07:50 wei2coolman wrote:On July 18 2013 07:08 theking1 wrote:On July 18 2013 06:40 rotegirte wrote:On July 18 2013 04:19 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 04:12 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:37 Plansix wrote:On July 18 2013 02:33 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:27 onlywonderboy wrote:
[quote]
That's part of his point, being harder doesn't instantly equate to being better. Also just because Dota has more depth doesn't mean LoL doesn't have any depth. It may take less skill, but a majority of the player base will still never reach that high level of play anyway. If people are playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars, yes, it DOES make it better. No not really. People play lots of different sports for lots of different amounts of money and they are all pretty good. They even take different amounts of skill or skills. There is no better or worse. When one game was based off the other and the copying games company has done nothing but try to stop the growth of the other, yes it does matter. Sorry. So just because Dota came first Riot shouldn't be allowed to engage in competitive business practices? By the logic Doom should be allowed to be the only successful FPS. I admit it was pretty shitty when Riot was talking about limiting teams to only have a LoL team instead of both a LoL and Dota team, but other then that they didn't do anything wrong from a competitive stand point (plus they thankfully stepped down from that position.) How about their parent company trying to spread the rumor that Dota 2 would have been pay-to-play in China? Or buying the dota2.vn domain to link to LoL? Or shutting down the #1 Dota 1 forums at that time? That's not competitive. It's the very definition of anti-competitive. They forget all about the negative campaign riot did to steal all the customers form dota 1.They forget that riot had dota 2 banned form mlg and dreamhack and only recently were they allowed.They forget that even nowadays dota2 is banned form wcg in which it was a main title for years due to wcg being owned by tencent.They forget all about the monopoly and anti competitive practices that riot has been doing for ages.they forget about the fact that many heroes who were originally designed by the dota 1 community,such as rammus, were stolen by guinosso and implememtned in lol.They forget all about those dota 2 and dota 1 pros who could not make a living in tournaments because of riot.They forget that riot still does not allow lol players to mention other esports.The forget how riot employess created an website insulting icefrog.They forget all of that.They sort of forget that the only reason riot did not carry on its evil plan of banning dota3 and possibly even sc2 was because they did not make enough money to ban everyone.Riot is the evil corporation of the esports world.I have ntohing against lol or its players but a company such as riot gives enough reasons of hate. when was the last time you saw pepsi and coke in the same restaurant or fast food place? Quit being so naive. It's standard business practice, there's nothing nefarious about not wanting your funding to be used to fund their competition. the fact that it is common doesnt mean I have to like it.It is also immoral.And the fact that many dota 2 pros suffer cause of this makes it even more discusting.What is even more discusting is that they stole a lot of idea which the community had created for free and turned them into profit although the ideas themselves were for nonprofit use only.I can hate riot as much as I want for that.And also i dunno how it is where you live but in europe it is quite common to see both pepsi and coke in supermarkets,restaurants,fast food joints etc. Pepsi and Coke are sold at the same super markets, but are not served as beverages in the same place. You either have a pepsi contract or a coke contract, there isnt a restaurant that will serve both, and its not coincidental. Unless you are speaking of a small family owned business that hands you a coke or pepsi can over the counter...but any restaurant with an actual deal will not carry both.
Actually I've been to places that serve both Coke and Pepsi, as well as both Pepsi and other Coca-Cola owned products. Anecdotal evidence and all, but just pointing that out. 
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United States23745 Posts
On July 18 2013 09:04 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 08:25 MaestroSC wrote:On July 18 2013 08:06 theking1 wrote:On July 18 2013 07:50 wei2coolman wrote:On July 18 2013 07:08 theking1 wrote:On July 18 2013 06:40 rotegirte wrote:On July 18 2013 04:19 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 04:12 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:37 Plansix wrote:On July 18 2013 02:33 iNteLStyLe wrote:
[quote]
If people are playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars, yes, it DOES make it better. No not really. People play lots of different sports for lots of different amounts of money and they are all pretty good. They even take different amounts of skill or skills. There is no better or worse. When one game was based off the other and the copying games company has done nothing but try to stop the growth of the other, yes it does matter. Sorry. So just because Dota came first Riot shouldn't be allowed to engage in competitive business practices? By the logic Doom should be allowed to be the only successful FPS. I admit it was pretty shitty when Riot was talking about limiting teams to only have a LoL team instead of both a LoL and Dota team, but other then that they didn't do anything wrong from a competitive stand point (plus they thankfully stepped down from that position.) How about their parent company trying to spread the rumor that Dota 2 would have been pay-to-play in China? Or buying the dota2.vn domain to link to LoL? Or shutting down the #1 Dota 1 forums at that time? That's not competitive. It's the very definition of anti-competitive. They forget all about the negative campaign riot did to steal all the customers form dota 1.They forget that riot had dota 2 banned form mlg and dreamhack and only recently were they allowed.They forget that even nowadays dota2 is banned form wcg in which it was a main title for years due to wcg being owned by tencent.They forget all about the monopoly and anti competitive practices that riot has been doing for ages.they forget about the fact that many heroes who were originally designed by the dota 1 community,such as rammus, were stolen by guinosso and implememtned in lol.They forget all about those dota 2 and dota 1 pros who could not make a living in tournaments because of riot.They forget that riot still does not allow lol players to mention other esports.The forget how riot employess created an website insulting icefrog.They forget all of that.They sort of forget that the only reason riot did not carry on its evil plan of banning dota3 and possibly even sc2 was because they did not make enough money to ban everyone.Riot is the evil corporation of the esports world.I have ntohing against lol or its players but a company such as riot gives enough reasons of hate. when was the last time you saw pepsi and coke in the same restaurant or fast food place? Quit being so naive. It's standard business practice, there's nothing nefarious about not wanting your funding to be used to fund their competition. the fact that it is common doesnt mean I have to like it.It is also immoral.And the fact that many dota 2 pros suffer cause of this makes it even more discusting.What is even more discusting is that they stole a lot of idea which the community had created for free and turned them into profit although the ideas themselves were for nonprofit use only.I can hate riot as much as I want for that.And also i dunno how it is where you live but in europe it is quite common to see both pepsi and coke in supermarkets,restaurants,fast food joints etc. Pepsi and Coke are sold at the same super markets, but are not served as beverages in the same place. You either have a pepsi contract or a coke contract, there isnt a restaurant that will serve both, and its not coincidental. Unless you are speaking of a small family owned business that hands you a coke or pepsi can over the counter...but any restaurant with an actual deal will not carry both. Actually I've been to places that serve both Coke and Pepsi, as well as both Pepsi and other Coca-Cola owned products. Anecdotal evidence and all, but just pointing that out.
Maybe it's a NA thing then (or at least in the States).
On July 18 2013 07:08 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 06:40 rotegirte wrote:On July 18 2013 04:19 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 04:12 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:37 Plansix wrote:On July 18 2013 02:33 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:27 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 02:20 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 16 2013 03:47 IdrA wrote:
one of the biggest things the sc2 scene can do to encourage this is hopping down off it's high horse. in the past i called league a casual game, having not played it at all, and in a way it is, in that you can hit buttons and kill other bad people and have fun even if you dont know what's going on. but if you actually want to be any good at it there's a ton of knowledge and abilities you need that are very different from those required for sc2. and ive seen or talked to plenty of sc2 pros who play it, with varying levels of seriousness, and are stuck in bronze or silver. some skills transfer over and if you were actually good at sc2 you should have a good understanding of how to approach learning league, but theyre entirely different games and it's entirely possible to be great and one and suck at the other. plus league is the big kid on the playground now. it just seems kinda sad and petty to be sitting there with a quarter of their viewership saying "well at least our game takes skill"
besides broodwar is the only game that is actually hard Compared to Dota, LoL is a game that takes less skill and has much less depth. Just saying That's part of his point, being harder doesn't instantly equate to being better. Also just because Dota has more depth doesn't mean LoL doesn't have any depth. It may take less skill, but a majority of the player base will still never reach that high level of play anyway. If people are playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars, yes, it DOES make it better. No not really. People play lots of different sports for lots of different amounts of money and they are all pretty good. They even take different amounts of skill or skills. There is no better or worse. When one game was based off the other and the copying games company has done nothing but try to stop the growth of the other, yes it does matter. Sorry. So just because Dota came first Riot shouldn't be allowed to engage in competitive business practices? By the logic Doom should be allowed to be the only successful FPS. I admit it was pretty shitty when Riot was talking about limiting teams to only have a LoL team instead of both a LoL and Dota team, but other then that they didn't do anything wrong from a competitive stand point (plus they thankfully stepped down from that position.) How about their parent company trying to spread the rumor that Dota 2 would have been pay-to-play in China? Or buying the dota2.vn domain to link to LoL? Or shutting down the #1 Dota 1 forums at that time? That's not competitive. It's the very definition of anti-competitive. They forget all about the negative campaign riot did to steal all the customers form dota 1.They forget that riot had dota 2 banned form mlg and dreamhack and only recently were they allowed.They forget that even nowadays dota2 is banned form wcg in which it was a main title for years due to wcg being owned by tencent.They forget all about the monopoly and anti competitive practices that riot has been doing for ages.they forget about the fact that many heroes who were originally designed by the dota 1 community,such as rammus, were stolen by guinosso and implememtned in lol.They forget all about those dota 2 and dota 1 pros who could not make a living in tournaments because of riot.They forget that riot still does not allow lol players to mention other esports.The forget how riot employess created an website insulting icefrog.They forget all of that.They sort of forget that the only reason riot did not carry on its evil plan of banning dota3 and possibly even sc2 was because they did not make enough money to ban everyone.Riot is the evil corporation of the esports world.I have ntohing against lol or its players but a company such as riot gives enough reasons of hate.
I'm familiar with most of these things, I just have different opinions about them. I think they are shitty but nearly as reprehensible as you do. Closing down Dota Allstars was terrible, I won't defend that, but a lot of it's just business imo. Might be a little strong armed but it's not like they killed Dota 2, the game seems to be doing fine. If they had truly killed Dota or banned SC 2 from events then I'd be more inclined to agree.
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Join hands in familyhood everyone. Starcraft2 yet remains in a masked beta.
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On July 18 2013 07:08 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 06:40 rotegirte wrote:On July 18 2013 04:19 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 04:12 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:37 Plansix wrote:On July 18 2013 02:33 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:27 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 02:20 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 16 2013 03:47 IdrA wrote:
one of the biggest things the sc2 scene can do to encourage this is hopping down off it's high horse. in the past i called league a casual game, having not played it at all, and in a way it is, in that you can hit buttons and kill other bad people and have fun even if you dont know what's going on. but if you actually want to be any good at it there's a ton of knowledge and abilities you need that are very different from those required for sc2. and ive seen or talked to plenty of sc2 pros who play it, with varying levels of seriousness, and are stuck in bronze or silver. some skills transfer over and if you were actually good at sc2 you should have a good understanding of how to approach learning league, but theyre entirely different games and it's entirely possible to be great and one and suck at the other. plus league is the big kid on the playground now. it just seems kinda sad and petty to be sitting there with a quarter of their viewership saying "well at least our game takes skill"
besides broodwar is the only game that is actually hard Compared to Dota, LoL is a game that takes less skill and has much less depth. Just saying That's part of his point, being harder doesn't instantly equate to being better. Also just because Dota has more depth doesn't mean LoL doesn't have any depth. It may take less skill, but a majority of the player base will still never reach that high level of play anyway. If people are playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars, yes, it DOES make it better. No not really. People play lots of different sports for lots of different amounts of money and they are all pretty good. They even take different amounts of skill or skills. There is no better or worse. When one game was based off the other and the copying games company has done nothing but try to stop the growth of the other, yes it does matter. Sorry. So just because Dota came first Riot shouldn't be allowed to engage in competitive business practices? By the logic Doom should be allowed to be the only successful FPS. I admit it was pretty shitty when Riot was talking about limiting teams to only have a LoL team instead of both a LoL and Dota team, but other then that they didn't do anything wrong from a competitive stand point (plus they thankfully stepped down from that position.) How about their parent company trying to spread the rumor that Dota 2 would have been pay-to-play in China? Or buying the dota2.vn domain to link to LoL? Or shutting down the #1 Dota 1 forums at that time? That's not competitive. It's the very definition of anti-competitive. They forget all about the negative campaign riot did to steal all the customers form dota 1.They forget that riot had dota 2 banned form mlg and dreamhack and only recently were they allowed.They forget that even nowadays dota2 is banned form wcg in which it was a main title for years due to wcg being owned by tencent.They forget all about the monopoly and anti competitive practices that riot has been doing for ages.they forget about the fact that many heroes who were originally designed by the dota 1 community,such as rammus, were stolen by guinosso and implememtned in lol.They forget all about those dota 2 and dota 1 pros who could not make a living in tournaments because of riot.They forget that riot still does not allow lol players to mention other esports.The forget how riot employess created an website insulting icefrog.They forget all of that.They sort of forget that the only reason riot did not carry on its evil plan of banning dota3 and possibly even sc2 was because they did not make enough money to ban everyone.Riot is the evil corporation of the esports world.I have ntohing against lol or its players but a company such as riot gives enough reasons of hate.
- Riot doesn't allow MLG to run Dota2 is a part of the business. Normally MLG is the one that have to organize and pay out prize for all the games it wants to cover, such as SC2, Dota2, LoLv..vv.. But then Riot came in and help MLG to pay for LoL and provide equipment (iirc), so in a sense Riot is the co-partner with MLG, and there's absolutely no reason for MLG to carry dota2 at that time. If MLG don't like it, they can just do like DreamHack and say "fuk no, i will pay for it myself and carry games that I want". Valve or Blizzard really does nothing to promote their game on MLG as far as I know.
- Dota2 isn't in WCG this year, and LoL wasn't in WCG last year. Tencent is a sponsor for WCG, so is Nexon. If anything, you have to tell Valve and Nexon to push the game to get it into WCG.
- LoL stole ideas from Dota, but you must admit that heroes like Earth Spirit is kind of similar to champions like Syndra too.
- Riot doesn't allow players to mention other esports? I countlessly saw players play games like SC2 on their stream, or CLGLink's blog talks about Dota, even praise it, just fine.
- website dota2.vn was a joke from Vietnamese dota community. They made it after IT1 for fun, at that time SEA didn't even have LoL servers, let alone LoL Vietnamese server...
I'm not on the side with Riot. Its business practice is harsher than others, and while I hate it, I respect it. I've watched a bunch of satelliteTV providers, or a bunch of insurance companies bashing each other on national TV, so this is just meh.
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EPT
