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On July 16 2013 03:47 IdrA wrote:
one of the biggest things the sc2 scene can do to encourage this is hopping down off it's high horse. in the past i called league a casual game, having not played it at all, and in a way it is, in that you can hit buttons and kill other bad people and have fun even if you dont know what's going on. but if you actually want to be any good at it there's a ton of knowledge and abilities you need that are very different from those required for sc2. and ive seen or talked to plenty of sc2 pros who play it, with varying levels of seriousness, and are stuck in bronze or silver. some skills transfer over and if you were actually good at sc2 you should have a good understanding of how to approach learning league, but theyre entirely different games and it's entirely possible to be great and one and suck at the other. plus league is the big kid on the playground now. it just seems kinda sad and petty to be sitting there with a quarter of their viewership saying "well at least our game takes skill"
besides broodwar is the only game that is actually hard
Compared to Dota, LoL is a game that takes less skill and has much less depth.
Just saying
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United States23745 Posts
On July 18 2013 02:20 iNteLStyLe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 03:47 IdrA wrote:
one of the biggest things the sc2 scene can do to encourage this is hopping down off it's high horse. in the past i called league a casual game, having not played it at all, and in a way it is, in that you can hit buttons and kill other bad people and have fun even if you dont know what's going on. but if you actually want to be any good at it there's a ton of knowledge and abilities you need that are very different from those required for sc2. and ive seen or talked to plenty of sc2 pros who play it, with varying levels of seriousness, and are stuck in bronze or silver. some skills transfer over and if you were actually good at sc2 you should have a good understanding of how to approach learning league, but theyre entirely different games and it's entirely possible to be great and one and suck at the other. plus league is the big kid on the playground now. it just seems kinda sad and petty to be sitting there with a quarter of their viewership saying "well at least our game takes skill"
besides broodwar is the only game that is actually hard Compared to Dota, LoL is a game that takes less skill and has much less depth. Just saying
That's part of his point, being harder doesn't instantly equate to being better. Also just because Dota has more depth doesn't mean LoL doesn't have any depth. It may take less skill, but a majority of the player base will still never reach that high level of play anyway.
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On July 18 2013 02:27 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 02:20 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 16 2013 03:47 IdrA wrote:
one of the biggest things the sc2 scene can do to encourage this is hopping down off it's high horse. in the past i called league a casual game, having not played it at all, and in a way it is, in that you can hit buttons and kill other bad people and have fun even if you dont know what's going on. but if you actually want to be any good at it there's a ton of knowledge and abilities you need that are very different from those required for sc2. and ive seen or talked to plenty of sc2 pros who play it, with varying levels of seriousness, and are stuck in bronze or silver. some skills transfer over and if you were actually good at sc2 you should have a good understanding of how to approach learning league, but theyre entirely different games and it's entirely possible to be great and one and suck at the other. plus league is the big kid on the playground now. it just seems kinda sad and petty to be sitting there with a quarter of their viewership saying "well at least our game takes skill"
besides broodwar is the only game that is actually hard Compared to Dota, LoL is a game that takes less skill and has much less depth. Just saying That's part of his point, being harder doesn't instantly equate to being better. Also just because Dota has more depth doesn't mean LoL doesn't have any depth. It may take less skill, but a majority of the player base will still never reach that high level of play anyway.
If people are playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars, yes, it DOES make it better.
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On July 17 2013 16:51 TAMinator wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2013 14:26 Let it Raine wrote:
One reason I didn't see in my skimming of the OP is the "respect for skill." No one respects skill in this game.
Lose to polt on NA ladder and youre okay with it, its polt after all.
Lose to polt on a smurf account? bm bm bm bm bm.. but why?
because most people have no recognition as to what skill is and just see the loss as "i lost to random unknown terran player, this game is terrible/imba/etc"
(or on the flipside, being bm'd and/or having bronze-gold players rage quitting and whining about imbalance when they lose to me while doing a level job. You'd think a bronze player could recognize that he was playing someone who is confident versus most pros.
I am guilty of these things myself, too. But I think the lack of respect for SKILL and all losses being blamed on stupid crap is one of the more major problems in the starcraft community.
admit you suck. congratulate the winners. then get good enough to become the winner. Pretty much 80% of twitch chat is just balance whine with mostly the intent of downplaying the opposite race of their favourite player. It must be quite off-putting for new people to come in as well! Also, I've played on all 3 ladders, and NA server is definetely without a question the most BM and whiny ladder, id say after every 2-3 wins, i'd get BM'd for winning, what makes it worse is, the report function never feels like it even does anything!
That's funny because I play on all 3 ladders and SEA has definitely been the most BM and whiny. People call me fat and stupid all the time if I mention I'm American. I had a KR/TW account before the region switching function and literally never encountered BM so I know its not them... Kinda ironic since Australia is quickly catching and surpassing us in fat.
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On July 18 2013 02:33 iNteLStyLe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 02:27 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 02:20 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 16 2013 03:47 IdrA wrote:
one of the biggest things the sc2 scene can do to encourage this is hopping down off it's high horse. in the past i called league a casual game, having not played it at all, and in a way it is, in that you can hit buttons and kill other bad people and have fun even if you dont know what's going on. but if you actually want to be any good at it there's a ton of knowledge and abilities you need that are very different from those required for sc2. and ive seen or talked to plenty of sc2 pros who play it, with varying levels of seriousness, and are stuck in bronze or silver. some skills transfer over and if you were actually good at sc2 you should have a good understanding of how to approach learning league, but theyre entirely different games and it's entirely possible to be great and one and suck at the other. plus league is the big kid on the playground now. it just seems kinda sad and petty to be sitting there with a quarter of their viewership saying "well at least our game takes skill"
besides broodwar is the only game that is actually hard Compared to Dota, LoL is a game that takes less skill and has much less depth. Just saying That's part of his point, being harder doesn't instantly equate to being better. Also just because Dota has more depth doesn't mean LoL doesn't have any depth. It may take less skill, but a majority of the player base will still never reach that high level of play anyway. If people are playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars, yes, it DOES make it better.
No not really. People play lots of different sports for lots of different amounts of money and they are all pretty good. They even take different amounts of skill or skills. There is no better or worse.
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On July 18 2013 02:37 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 02:33 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:27 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 02:20 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 16 2013 03:47 IdrA wrote:
one of the biggest things the sc2 scene can do to encourage this is hopping down off it's high horse. in the past i called league a casual game, having not played it at all, and in a way it is, in that you can hit buttons and kill other bad people and have fun even if you dont know what's going on. but if you actually want to be any good at it there's a ton of knowledge and abilities you need that are very different from those required for sc2. and ive seen or talked to plenty of sc2 pros who play it, with varying levels of seriousness, and are stuck in bronze or silver. some skills transfer over and if you were actually good at sc2 you should have a good understanding of how to approach learning league, but theyre entirely different games and it's entirely possible to be great and one and suck at the other. plus league is the big kid on the playground now. it just seems kinda sad and petty to be sitting there with a quarter of their viewership saying "well at least our game takes skill"
besides broodwar is the only game that is actually hard Compared to Dota, LoL is a game that takes less skill and has much less depth. Just saying That's part of his point, being harder doesn't instantly equate to being better. Also just because Dota has more depth doesn't mean LoL doesn't have any depth. It may take less skill, but a majority of the player base will still never reach that high level of play anyway. If people are playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars, yes, it DOES make it better. No not really. People play lots of different sports for lots of different amounts of money and they are all pretty good. They even take different amounts of skill or skills. There is no better or worse.
well there is a better or worse but the totally dedicated player pool is the slim to make a differnce:D
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On July 17 2013 20:00 darkscream wrote:
Oh look, every caster supporting every esport because it represents the best possible career for them, hiding behind the guise of being friendly and noble to everyone. Casters mostly being failed players who couldn't make a living off winning (sorry axslav/axeltoss, but it's true). Sure, people should stop being asshats to each other on the internet, World peace would be nice too while you're at it.
Guess what, a lot of people just don't give a fuck about other games and you'll never make them give any fucks. It's a great promotion for those who do don't get me wrong. I just find it extremely distasteful that all of a sudden all these organizations are diversifying into many other games, and now every community is expected to cross-polinate. Reading this entire post from Axeltoss and his quote from idra, what do we see? Plenty of flowery language about being friendlier gamers on the internet, not so much in the way of admitting the pure business potential of unifying the audience. I don't like it. It feels shady. It feels like MLG trying to get everyone to play nice so that we'll all keep watching no matter what game they put on. But it's impossible to really argue against someone saying "hey boys play nice" without looking like an asshole.
But to me, it just seems like shrewd business, Just like Artosis claiming he loves world of tanks. Eugh. Disgusting.
it is not a surprise really.With the growing esport market and numerous esports appearing its sort of a mandatory job requirement for a caster/personality to be proficient in at least 2-3 succesfull esports.Not to mention a lot of people realized there is more money in the foreign scenes of other esports such as dota2,lol,wot,,cod etc and it be far more advantageous financially to provide content for many esports instead of just focusing on just 1 aka sc2.Oh and there is that category of former sc2 pros who realize people in the sc2 scene only watched them when they won tournaments and now that they can not anymore they sort of transition slowly to lol.Which is humanly understandable really.Why work your as off as a casual streamer in the sc2 scene for 1k viewers when you can easily get 2k-3k in lol and even more if there are no major lol personalities streaming.Destiny was the first to understand this and he is now preety succesfull in lol.
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On July 18 2013 02:37 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 02:33 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:27 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 02:20 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 16 2013 03:47 IdrA wrote:
one of the biggest things the sc2 scene can do to encourage this is hopping down off it's high horse. in the past i called league a casual game, having not played it at all, and in a way it is, in that you can hit buttons and kill other bad people and have fun even if you dont know what's going on. but if you actually want to be any good at it there's a ton of knowledge and abilities you need that are very different from those required for sc2. and ive seen or talked to plenty of sc2 pros who play it, with varying levels of seriousness, and are stuck in bronze or silver. some skills transfer over and if you were actually good at sc2 you should have a good understanding of how to approach learning league, but theyre entirely different games and it's entirely possible to be great and one and suck at the other. plus league is the big kid on the playground now. it just seems kinda sad and petty to be sitting there with a quarter of their viewership saying "well at least our game takes skill"
besides broodwar is the only game that is actually hard Compared to Dota, LoL is a game that takes less skill and has much less depth. Just saying That's part of his point, being harder doesn't instantly equate to being better. Also just because Dota has more depth doesn't mean LoL doesn't have any depth. It may take less skill, but a majority of the player base will still never reach that high level of play anyway. If people are playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars, yes, it DOES make it better. No not really. People play lots of different sports for lots of different amounts of money and they are all pretty good. They even take different amounts of skill or skills. There is no better or worse.
When one game was based off the other and the copying games company has done nothing but try to stop the growth of the other, yes it does matter. Sorry.
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Look at car racing. Nascar is what everybody makes fun of in the scene. It looks to be unskilled and a dumbed down version on F1 / Indy, etc. However why is it that when a big name from F1, Indy Car, etc. move over to Nascar do they usually flounder?
I really don't think that it is fair to even call Dota a more difficult game than League. Skill cap just seems like a foolish idea to begin with. I feel like the skill level is determined by the people participating, at least in competitive games.
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United States23745 Posts
On July 18 2013 04:12 iNteLStyLe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 02:37 Plansix wrote:On July 18 2013 02:33 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:27 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 02:20 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 16 2013 03:47 IdrA wrote:
one of the biggest things the sc2 scene can do to encourage this is hopping down off it's high horse. in the past i called league a casual game, having not played it at all, and in a way it is, in that you can hit buttons and kill other bad people and have fun even if you dont know what's going on. but if you actually want to be any good at it there's a ton of knowledge and abilities you need that are very different from those required for sc2. and ive seen or talked to plenty of sc2 pros who play it, with varying levels of seriousness, and are stuck in bronze or silver. some skills transfer over and if you were actually good at sc2 you should have a good understanding of how to approach learning league, but theyre entirely different games and it's entirely possible to be great and one and suck at the other. plus league is the big kid on the playground now. it just seems kinda sad and petty to be sitting there with a quarter of their viewership saying "well at least our game takes skill"
besides broodwar is the only game that is actually hard Compared to Dota, LoL is a game that takes less skill and has much less depth. Just saying That's part of his point, being harder doesn't instantly equate to being better. Also just because Dota has more depth doesn't mean LoL doesn't have any depth. It may take less skill, but a majority of the player base will still never reach that high level of play anyway. If people are playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars, yes, it DOES make it better. No not really. People play lots of different sports for lots of different amounts of money and they are all pretty good. They even take different amounts of skill or skills. There is no better or worse. When one game was based off the other and the copying games company has done nothing but try to stop the growth of the other, yes it does matter. Sorry.
So just because Dota came first Riot shouldn't be allowed to engage in competitive business practices? By the logic Doom should be allowed to be the only successful FPS. I admit it was pretty shitty when Riot was talking about limiting teams to only have a LoL team instead of both a LoL and Dota team, but other then that they didn't do anything wrong from a competitive stand point (plus they thankfully stepped down from that position.)
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On July 18 2013 04:12 iNteLStyLe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 02:37 Plansix wrote:On July 18 2013 02:33 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:27 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 02:20 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 16 2013 03:47 IdrA wrote:
one of the biggest things the sc2 scene can do to encourage this is hopping down off it's high horse. in the past i called league a casual game, having not played it at all, and in a way it is, in that you can hit buttons and kill other bad people and have fun even if you dont know what's going on. but if you actually want to be any good at it there's a ton of knowledge and abilities you need that are very different from those required for sc2. and ive seen or talked to plenty of sc2 pros who play it, with varying levels of seriousness, and are stuck in bronze or silver. some skills transfer over and if you were actually good at sc2 you should have a good understanding of how to approach learning league, but theyre entirely different games and it's entirely possible to be great and one and suck at the other. plus league is the big kid on the playground now. it just seems kinda sad and petty to be sitting there with a quarter of their viewership saying "well at least our game takes skill"
besides broodwar is the only game that is actually hard Compared to Dota, LoL is a game that takes less skill and has much less depth. Just saying That's part of his point, being harder doesn't instantly equate to being better. Also just because Dota has more depth doesn't mean LoL doesn't have any depth. It may take less skill, but a majority of the player base will still never reach that high level of play anyway. If people are playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars, yes, it DOES make it better. No not really. People play lots of different sports for lots of different amounts of money and they are all pretty good. They even take different amounts of skill or skills. There is no better or worse. When one game was based off the other and the copying games company has done nothing but try to stop the growth of the other, yes it does matter. Sorry.
You do realise that the people who created League of Legends are the people who worked on DotA All Stars, right? The founders are the same group of people that made the most popular WC3 mod. And I think we have wandered your own personal opinion, rather than fact.. That is the point, that you may not like it, but other people do and there is nothing wrong with that. At the end of the day, there is no better or worse.
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Looking at the discussion for the tomorrow's OSL games... Stop believing that people will throw games in the style people are saying it right now. There is nothing good coming out of that group match right now. If Rain beats him, even if FanTaSy plays the game of his life, people will suspect him from throwing (and not like it's EGDoto). If FanTaSy beats Rain, people will either say legit shit or badmouth the team or talk about shit like the team spirit of SKT being shit.
I know it sucks that they laid the matches out this way, but damn. I'm getting sad.
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Completely agree that there is no better or worse.
Noone has even come close to the skill ceiling in anny game besides checkers, i guess people dont understand what skill ceiling is and what it means to play perfect.
Lol is a way harder game to have succes in then dota, because alot more people play it. To be the best at lol you have to be the best of say 1m people, and to be the best of dota you have to be the best of say 100k people.
It would be kinda nice if there would come one game wich was more popular then anny other game. I do see the value in getting more fans for 1 game, the fans are now spread out over all games and that makes none of the games extremely atractive for commercial purposes, only lol seems to stick out a bit but not by an overwelming (10 to 1) margin.
So game designers : go to the drawing table and make something everyone loves 
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On July 18 2013 04:19 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 04:12 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:37 Plansix wrote:On July 18 2013 02:33 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:27 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 02:20 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 16 2013 03:47 IdrA wrote:
one of the biggest things the sc2 scene can do to encourage this is hopping down off it's high horse. in the past i called league a casual game, having not played it at all, and in a way it is, in that you can hit buttons and kill other bad people and have fun even if you dont know what's going on. but if you actually want to be any good at it there's a ton of knowledge and abilities you need that are very different from those required for sc2. and ive seen or talked to plenty of sc2 pros who play it, with varying levels of seriousness, and are stuck in bronze or silver. some skills transfer over and if you were actually good at sc2 you should have a good understanding of how to approach learning league, but theyre entirely different games and it's entirely possible to be great and one and suck at the other. plus league is the big kid on the playground now. it just seems kinda sad and petty to be sitting there with a quarter of their viewership saying "well at least our game takes skill"
besides broodwar is the only game that is actually hard Compared to Dota, LoL is a game that takes less skill and has much less depth. Just saying That's part of his point, being harder doesn't instantly equate to being better. Also just because Dota has more depth doesn't mean LoL doesn't have any depth. It may take less skill, but a majority of the player base will still never reach that high level of play anyway. If people are playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars, yes, it DOES make it better. No not really. People play lots of different sports for lots of different amounts of money and they are all pretty good. They even take different amounts of skill or skills. There is no better or worse. When one game was based off the other and the copying games company has done nothing but try to stop the growth of the other, yes it does matter. Sorry. So just because Dota came first Riot shouldn't be allowed to engage in competitive business practices? By the logic Doom should be allowed to be the only successful FPS. I admit it was pretty shitty when Riot was talking about limiting teams to only have a LoL team instead of both a LoL and Dota team, but other then that they didn't do anything wrong from a competitive stand point (plus they thankfully stepped down from that position.)
How about their parent company trying to spread the rumor that Dota 2 would have been pay-to-play in China? Or buying the dota2.vn domain to link to LoL? Or shutting down the #1 Dota 1 forums at that time? That's not competitive. It's the very definition of anti-competitive.
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On July 18 2013 06:40 rotegirte wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 04:19 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 04:12 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:37 Plansix wrote:On July 18 2013 02:33 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:27 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 02:20 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 16 2013 03:47 IdrA wrote:
one of the biggest things the sc2 scene can do to encourage this is hopping down off it's high horse. in the past i called league a casual game, having not played it at all, and in a way it is, in that you can hit buttons and kill other bad people and have fun even if you dont know what's going on. but if you actually want to be any good at it there's a ton of knowledge and abilities you need that are very different from those required for sc2. and ive seen or talked to plenty of sc2 pros who play it, with varying levels of seriousness, and are stuck in bronze or silver. some skills transfer over and if you were actually good at sc2 you should have a good understanding of how to approach learning league, but theyre entirely different games and it's entirely possible to be great and one and suck at the other. plus league is the big kid on the playground now. it just seems kinda sad and petty to be sitting there with a quarter of their viewership saying "well at least our game takes skill"
besides broodwar is the only game that is actually hard Compared to Dota, LoL is a game that takes less skill and has much less depth. Just saying That's part of his point, being harder doesn't instantly equate to being better. Also just because Dota has more depth doesn't mean LoL doesn't have any depth. It may take less skill, but a majority of the player base will still never reach that high level of play anyway. If people are playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars, yes, it DOES make it better. No not really. People play lots of different sports for lots of different amounts of money and they are all pretty good. They even take different amounts of skill or skills. There is no better or worse. When one game was based off the other and the copying games company has done nothing but try to stop the growth of the other, yes it does matter. Sorry. So just because Dota came first Riot shouldn't be allowed to engage in competitive business practices? By the logic Doom should be allowed to be the only successful FPS. I admit it was pretty shitty when Riot was talking about limiting teams to only have a LoL team instead of both a LoL and Dota team, but other then that they didn't do anything wrong from a competitive stand point (plus they thankfully stepped down from that position.) How about their parent company trying to spread the rumor that Dota 2 would have been pay-to-play in China? Or buying the dota2.vn domain to link to LoL? Or shutting down the #1 Dota 1 forums at that time? That's not competitive. It's the very definition of anti-competitive.
They forget all about the negative campaign riot did to steal all the customers form dota 1.They forget that riot had dota 2 banned form mlg and dreamhack and only recently were they allowed.They forget that even nowadays dota2 is banned form wcg in which it was a main title for years due to wcg being owned by tencent.They forget all about the monopoly and anti competitive practices that riot has been doing for ages.they forget about the fact that many heroes who were originally designed by the dota 1 community,such as rammus, were stolen by guinosso and implememtned in lol.They forget all about those dota 2 and dota 1 pros who could not make a living in tournaments because of riot.They forget that riot still does not allow lol players to mention other esports.The forget how riot employess created an website insulting icefrog.They forget all of that.They sort of forget that the only reason riot did not carry on its evil plan of banning dota3 and possibly even sc2 was because they did not make enough money to ban everyone.Riot is the evil corporation of the esports world.I have ntohing against lol or its players but a company such as riot gives enough reasons of hate.
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On July 18 2013 07:08 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 06:40 rotegirte wrote:On July 18 2013 04:19 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 04:12 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:37 Plansix wrote:On July 18 2013 02:33 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:27 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 02:20 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 16 2013 03:47 IdrA wrote:
one of the biggest things the sc2 scene can do to encourage this is hopping down off it's high horse. in the past i called league a casual game, having not played it at all, and in a way it is, in that you can hit buttons and kill other bad people and have fun even if you dont know what's going on. but if you actually want to be any good at it there's a ton of knowledge and abilities you need that are very different from those required for sc2. and ive seen or talked to plenty of sc2 pros who play it, with varying levels of seriousness, and are stuck in bronze or silver. some skills transfer over and if you were actually good at sc2 you should have a good understanding of how to approach learning league, but theyre entirely different games and it's entirely possible to be great and one and suck at the other. plus league is the big kid on the playground now. it just seems kinda sad and petty to be sitting there with a quarter of their viewership saying "well at least our game takes skill"
besides broodwar is the only game that is actually hard Compared to Dota, LoL is a game that takes less skill and has much less depth. Just saying That's part of his point, being harder doesn't instantly equate to being better. Also just because Dota has more depth doesn't mean LoL doesn't have any depth. It may take less skill, but a majority of the player base will still never reach that high level of play anyway. If people are playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars, yes, it DOES make it better. No not really. People play lots of different sports for lots of different amounts of money and they are all pretty good. They even take different amounts of skill or skills. There is no better or worse. When one game was based off the other and the copying games company has done nothing but try to stop the growth of the other, yes it does matter. Sorry. So just because Dota came first Riot shouldn't be allowed to engage in competitive business practices? By the logic Doom should be allowed to be the only successful FPS. I admit it was pretty shitty when Riot was talking about limiting teams to only have a LoL team instead of both a LoL and Dota team, but other then that they didn't do anything wrong from a competitive stand point (plus they thankfully stepped down from that position.) How about their parent company trying to spread the rumor that Dota 2 would have been pay-to-play in China? Or buying the dota2.vn domain to link to LoL? Or shutting down the #1 Dota 1 forums at that time? That's not competitive. It's the very definition of anti-competitive. They forget all about the negative campaign riot did to steal all the customers form dota 1.They forget that riot had dota 2 banned form mlg and dreamhack and only recently were they allowed.They forget that even nowadays dota2 is banned form wcg in which it was a main title for years due to wcg being owned by tencent.They forget all about the monopoly and anti competitive practices that riot has been doing for ages.they forget about the fact that many heroes who were originally designed by the dota 1 community,such as rammus, were stolen by guinosso and implememtned in lol.They forget all about those dota 2 and dota 1 pros who could not make a living in tournaments because of riot.They forget that riot still does not allow lol players to mention other esports.The forget how riot employess created an website insulting icefrog.They forget all of that.They sort of forget that the only reason riot did not carry on its evil plan of banning dota3 and possibly even sc2 was because they did not make enough money to ban everyone.Riot is the evil corporation of the esports world.I have ntohing against lol or its players but a company such as riot gives enough reasons of hate.
when was the last time you saw pepsi and coke in the same restaurant or fast food place? Quit being so naive. It's standard business practice, there's nothing nefarious about not wanting your funding to be used to fund their competition.
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On July 18 2013 07:50 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 07:08 theking1 wrote:On July 18 2013 06:40 rotegirte wrote:On July 18 2013 04:19 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 04:12 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:37 Plansix wrote:On July 18 2013 02:33 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:27 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 02:20 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 16 2013 03:47 IdrA wrote:
one of the biggest things the sc2 scene can do to encourage this is hopping down off it's high horse. in the past i called league a casual game, having not played it at all, and in a way it is, in that you can hit buttons and kill other bad people and have fun even if you dont know what's going on. but if you actually want to be any good at it there's a ton of knowledge and abilities you need that are very different from those required for sc2. and ive seen or talked to plenty of sc2 pros who play it, with varying levels of seriousness, and are stuck in bronze or silver. some skills transfer over and if you were actually good at sc2 you should have a good understanding of how to approach learning league, but theyre entirely different games and it's entirely possible to be great and one and suck at the other. plus league is the big kid on the playground now. it just seems kinda sad and petty to be sitting there with a quarter of their viewership saying "well at least our game takes skill"
besides broodwar is the only game that is actually hard Compared to Dota, LoL is a game that takes less skill and has much less depth. Just saying That's part of his point, being harder doesn't instantly equate to being better. Also just because Dota has more depth doesn't mean LoL doesn't have any depth. It may take less skill, but a majority of the player base will still never reach that high level of play anyway. If people are playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars, yes, it DOES make it better. No not really. People play lots of different sports for lots of different amounts of money and they are all pretty good. They even take different amounts of skill or skills. There is no better or worse. When one game was based off the other and the copying games company has done nothing but try to stop the growth of the other, yes it does matter. Sorry. So just because Dota came first Riot shouldn't be allowed to engage in competitive business practices? By the logic Doom should be allowed to be the only successful FPS. I admit it was pretty shitty when Riot was talking about limiting teams to only have a LoL team instead of both a LoL and Dota team, but other then that they didn't do anything wrong from a competitive stand point (plus they thankfully stepped down from that position.) How about their parent company trying to spread the rumor that Dota 2 would have been pay-to-play in China? Or buying the dota2.vn domain to link to LoL? Or shutting down the #1 Dota 1 forums at that time? That's not competitive. It's the very definition of anti-competitive. They forget all about the negative campaign riot did to steal all the customers form dota 1.They forget that riot had dota 2 banned form mlg and dreamhack and only recently were they allowed.They forget that even nowadays dota2 is banned form wcg in which it was a main title for years due to wcg being owned by tencent.They forget all about the monopoly and anti competitive practices that riot has been doing for ages.they forget about the fact that many heroes who were originally designed by the dota 1 community,such as rammus, were stolen by guinosso and implememtned in lol.They forget all about those dota 2 and dota 1 pros who could not make a living in tournaments because of riot.They forget that riot still does not allow lol players to mention other esports.The forget how riot employess created an website insulting icefrog.They forget all of that.They sort of forget that the only reason riot did not carry on its evil plan of banning dota3 and possibly even sc2 was because they did not make enough money to ban everyone.Riot is the evil corporation of the esports world.I have ntohing against lol or its players but a company such as riot gives enough reasons of hate. when was the last time you saw pepsi and coke in the same restaurant or fast food place? Quit being so naive. It's standard business practice, there's nothing nefarious about not wanting your funding to be used to fund their competition.
that has more to do with "I already offer pepsi, im not paying my legs to have cokes too"
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On July 18 2013 07:50 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 07:08 theking1 wrote:On July 18 2013 06:40 rotegirte wrote:On July 18 2013 04:19 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 04:12 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:37 Plansix wrote:On July 18 2013 02:33 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:27 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 02:20 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 16 2013 03:47 IdrA wrote:
one of the biggest things the sc2 scene can do to encourage this is hopping down off it's high horse. in the past i called league a casual game, having not played it at all, and in a way it is, in that you can hit buttons and kill other bad people and have fun even if you dont know what's going on. but if you actually want to be any good at it there's a ton of knowledge and abilities you need that are very different from those required for sc2. and ive seen or talked to plenty of sc2 pros who play it, with varying levels of seriousness, and are stuck in bronze or silver. some skills transfer over and if you were actually good at sc2 you should have a good understanding of how to approach learning league, but theyre entirely different games and it's entirely possible to be great and one and suck at the other. plus league is the big kid on the playground now. it just seems kinda sad and petty to be sitting there with a quarter of their viewership saying "well at least our game takes skill"
besides broodwar is the only game that is actually hard Compared to Dota, LoL is a game that takes less skill and has much less depth. Just saying That's part of his point, being harder doesn't instantly equate to being better. Also just because Dota has more depth doesn't mean LoL doesn't have any depth. It may take less skill, but a majority of the player base will still never reach that high level of play anyway. If people are playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars, yes, it DOES make it better. No not really. People play lots of different sports for lots of different amounts of money and they are all pretty good. They even take different amounts of skill or skills. There is no better or worse. When one game was based off the other and the copying games company has done nothing but try to stop the growth of the other, yes it does matter. Sorry. So just because Dota came first Riot shouldn't be allowed to engage in competitive business practices? By the logic Doom should be allowed to be the only successful FPS. I admit it was pretty shitty when Riot was talking about limiting teams to only have a LoL team instead of both a LoL and Dota team, but other then that they didn't do anything wrong from a competitive stand point (plus they thankfully stepped down from that position.) How about their parent company trying to spread the rumor that Dota 2 would have been pay-to-play in China? Or buying the dota2.vn domain to link to LoL? Or shutting down the #1 Dota 1 forums at that time? That's not competitive. It's the very definition of anti-competitive. They forget all about the negative campaign riot did to steal all the customers form dota 1.They forget that riot had dota 2 banned form mlg and dreamhack and only recently were they allowed.They forget that even nowadays dota2 is banned form wcg in which it was a main title for years due to wcg being owned by tencent.They forget all about the monopoly and anti competitive practices that riot has been doing for ages.they forget about the fact that many heroes who were originally designed by the dota 1 community,such as rammus, were stolen by guinosso and implememtned in lol.They forget all about those dota 2 and dota 1 pros who could not make a living in tournaments because of riot.They forget that riot still does not allow lol players to mention other esports.The forget how riot employess created an website insulting icefrog.They forget all of that.They sort of forget that the only reason riot did not carry on its evil plan of banning dota3 and possibly even sc2 was because they did not make enough money to ban everyone.Riot is the evil corporation of the esports world.I have ntohing against lol or its players but a company such as riot gives enough reasons of hate. when was the last time you saw pepsi and coke in the same restaurant or fast food place? Quit being so naive. It's standard business practice, there's nothing nefarious about not wanting your funding to be used to fund their competition.
the fact that it is common doesnt mean I have to like it.It is also immoral.And the fact that many dota 2 pros suffer cause of this makes it even more discusting.What is even more discusting is that they stole a lot of idea which the community had created for free and turned them into profit although the ideas themselves were for nonprofit use only.I can hate riot as much as I want for that.And also i dunno how it is where you live but in europe it is quite common to see both pepsi and coke in supermarkets,restaurants,fast food joints etc.
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On July 18 2013 08:06 theking1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 07:50 wei2coolman wrote:On July 18 2013 07:08 theking1 wrote:On July 18 2013 06:40 rotegirte wrote:On July 18 2013 04:19 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 04:12 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:37 Plansix wrote:On July 18 2013 02:33 iNteLStyLe wrote:On July 18 2013 02:27 onlywonderboy wrote:On July 18 2013 02:20 iNteLStyLe wrote:
[quote]
Compared to Dota, LoL is a game that takes less skill and has much less depth.
Just saying That's part of his point, being harder doesn't instantly equate to being better. Also just because Dota has more depth doesn't mean LoL doesn't have any depth. It may take less skill, but a majority of the player base will still never reach that high level of play anyway. If people are playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars, yes, it DOES make it better. No not really. People play lots of different sports for lots of different amounts of money and they are all pretty good. They even take different amounts of skill or skills. There is no better or worse. When one game was based off the other and the copying games company has done nothing but try to stop the growth of the other, yes it does matter. Sorry. So just because Dota came first Riot shouldn't be allowed to engage in competitive business practices? By the logic Doom should be allowed to be the only successful FPS. I admit it was pretty shitty when Riot was talking about limiting teams to only have a LoL team instead of both a LoL and Dota team, but other then that they didn't do anything wrong from a competitive stand point (plus they thankfully stepped down from that position.) How about their parent company trying to spread the rumor that Dota 2 would have been pay-to-play in China? Or buying the dota2.vn domain to link to LoL? Or shutting down the #1 Dota 1 forums at that time? That's not competitive. It's the very definition of anti-competitive. They forget all about the negative campaign riot did to steal all the customers form dota 1.They forget that riot had dota 2 banned form mlg and dreamhack and only recently were they allowed.They forget that even nowadays dota2 is banned form wcg in which it was a main title for years due to wcg being owned by tencent.They forget all about the monopoly and anti competitive practices that riot has been doing for ages.they forget about the fact that many heroes who were originally designed by the dota 1 community,such as rammus, were stolen by guinosso and implememtned in lol.They forget all about those dota 2 and dota 1 pros who could not make a living in tournaments because of riot.They forget that riot still does not allow lol players to mention other esports.The forget how riot employess created an website insulting icefrog.They forget all of that.They sort of forget that the only reason riot did not carry on its evil plan of banning dota3 and possibly even sc2 was because they did not make enough money to ban everyone.Riot is the evil corporation of the esports world.I have ntohing against lol or its players but a company such as riot gives enough reasons of hate. when was the last time you saw pepsi and coke in the same restaurant or fast food place? Quit being so naive. It's standard business practice, there's nothing nefarious about not wanting your funding to be used to fund their competition. the fact that it is common doesnt mean I have to like it.It is also immoral.And the fact that many dota 2 pros suffer cause of this makes it even more discusting.What is even more discusting is that they stole a lot of idea which the community had created for free and turned them into profit although the ideas themselves were for nonprofit use only.I can hate riot as much as I want for that.And also i dunno how it is where you live but in europe it is quite common to see both pepsi and coke in supermarkets,restaurants,fast food joints etc.
Pepsi and Coke are sold at the same super markets, but are not served as beverages in the same place. You either have a pepsi contract or a coke contract, there isnt a restaurant that will serve both, and its not coincidental. Unless you are speaking of a small family owned business that hands you a coke or pepsi can over the counter...but any restaurant with an actual deal will not carry both.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
The fact that its a standard business practice in now way is a good argument for people to think its oke. There are a ton of business practices that people dislike.
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EPT
