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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On July 16 2013 13:12 canikizu wrote: But then again, you don't see various martial art community bashing each other, or various motor sports (G1 vs dirtbike racing or something), or pingpong and tennis.... You've never been to bullshido.com have you? | ||
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
Enough with the discrimination! Enough is enough! The world is watching. | ||
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BisuEver
United States247 Posts
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
Humans have to feel like they belong to a group. In every group you will run into people that have become irrationally identified to a particular group. Then that's when the chauvinist behavior appears and what you are mainly complaining about. Gaming chauvinism, in my opinion, is based off of fear. The fear being that if the game they like isn't superior to every other game then they will lose out somehow. Maybe they feel like the community they belong to will fail if they aren't aggressively asserting some viewpoint? Maybe they feel that it's absolutely unacceptable that the game they love becomes an equal to every other game? Surely there are many more reasons for this type of irrational behavior but I just can't simply think of anymore at this present time. Can people be cured from the centuries worth of humans pounding chauvinism into our genes? Maybe through self realization and people just being called out on it that they are being irrational. It won't be easy but the world would be a better place if people just played the game they like without having to make it more than that. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25159 Posts
I don't see us as being damned by genetic heritage to continually wage these battles , of which SC2 vs LoL is the latest iteration. | ||
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Witten
United States2094 Posts
That being said, ESPORTS is a medium that takes place purely with the power of the internet and computers. This means the people who follow it are probably using those things too. We've seen what the internet does to normal people. The fact that these normal people can be very young and immature. For whatever reason people don't understand that the ESPORTS umbrella is very similar to the extreme sports umbrella, in that you don't like to like all of the sports in the umbrella, but that they need to work together to succeed. People hate Tencent and Riot because they actively try to avoid any competition. In my opinion that "hurts esports", but at the end of the day I will just watch FGC tournaments, DotA 2 and speedruns until people don't want to do them or I lose interest. It's highly likely it'll be the latter (as it was with Sc II) | ||
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rotegirte
Germany2859 Posts
To quote a compliation
When a company has gone *that* far to try to sabotage a game you love and are passionate about, there is definite reason to hold a grudge. Now, I agree that it's silly to direct this anger at people who play LoL but Riot should not be let off the hook for all they've done Just for a moment imagine TL during Broodwar to be shut down, just to have ads for a new RTS to be plastered all over iCCUP. We welcome new players, no matter where they come from. Additionally to general introduction there is also a number of guides on /r/dota specifically targeted at people with LoL background to ease their entry. But I'm sick and tired of being put off as a bunch of toxic people that harbor resentments for no reason. There is deep history between Dota and the company Riot. | ||
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Yoshinaka
New Zealand50 Posts
On July 16 2013 02:23 MichaelDonovan wrote: Whaaaat were they really? Everybody knows that SSBM is like the best fighting game ever with the most skill required to play at a top level. I guess if they haven't really played it people wont appreciate the crazy moves of the players they're watching but shit man... the people that bash on SSBM claiming its not a real fighting game, are actually fighting game enthusiast from the FGC while i dont hate SSBM i think its pretty cool but considered a fighting game at the level of other titles is quite a stretch. the thing is people are hanging on its views too much. it was given a time slot on the finals day of EVO which is the most important fighting game tournament in the world every year. meaning no matter what you put in that time slot it would have generated massive amounts of viewers. view numbers for each title Ultimate Marvel Vs Capcom 3 - 148k (being the biggest heavy hitter title of the FGC you can a tribute a lot of the other games viewers to this title) Street fighter 4 Arcade Edition - 130k Injustice - 128k SSBM - 130k theirs been so much talk about SSBM and its 130k viewers when really its the other titles such as street fighter mainly marvel which are generating the numbers, SSBM just got brought on for the ride | ||
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Cele
Germany4016 Posts
On July 16 2013 03:47 IdrA wrote: besides broodwar is the only game that is actually hard a classical Idra. even when reiterating the concept of a more developed e-sports community, he insists on being a broodwar elitist.  I like your point OP, but i would hope the peace offer would also extend towards Starcraft Broodwar. Many people may not realize, but to some of us fans, who still follow Broodwar, it's insulting how Sc2 Commentators speak of Broodwar. This boils down to two points basically as far as i perceive it. a) Using the past term. Please stop referencing broodwar as dead or past thing. Though the community has gotten much smaller and the big money isnt present, BW community is very much alive and progressing. In Europe, America, China, Russia and Korea. b) differentiate. There is no game called starcraft. There are actually two games. More often than not, in narrations of prominent Sc2 figures, this seems to be forgotten. (c: stop stealing our subreddit) | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16699 Posts
On July 16 2013 09:04 MaestroSC wrote: Seriously this community is cancerous, and its disgusting. ... Seriously instead of hating on and bashing another game, which is by FAR the most successful esport game in the history of the planet, you should grow up and focus on being positive for your own game and not hateful toward others. Cancer is a disease that kills people. No one is dying here. You're going overboard trying to make your point. At the heart of the matter is getting people to voluntarily spend their disposable income. Is the community influence sometimes "negative"? .. sure it is. A better way to dissolve the immature rage is to diffuse it and not respond in an equally extreme way. Either way this is hardly a "life or death" issue. Nothing going on is "disgusting". Is it slightly poor taste? Sure it is. But some guy making fun of a video game is hardly 'disgusting'. Diagnosing it with extreme language only perpetuates the immaturity feedback loop. | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
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Shebuha
Canada1335 Posts
"Theory one: Tension between the communities. The threads I have read, the comments made by certain individuals of certain communities... r/starcraft, TL, twitch chats... It blows my mind and is the most infuriating thing. People will just bash other games as a hobby. Each person has their own reasons. It’s a terrible mentality and it should go away. People like certain games, so what? How does it help anything to hate on something that you don’t like? It doesn’t. If you have a cupcake and your friend has a cookie, are you going to argue the cookie is too crumbly and laugh at them? No! You are going to enjoy your damn cupcake! How does this look to the outside world, too? Those outside of our bubbles? Are people going want to share in our tasty treat endeavours after seeing these toxic exchanges?" Amen, Axeltoss. People need to either learn to appreciate other games and their communities for what they do for Esports as a whole, or quiet themselves and enjoy SC2, or whatever else they're into. Attempting to de-legitimize other scenes because you think the game sucks (LoL in particular for SC2 players), or because it's small (Smash, some other FG's) doesn't do anyone any good. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
As I reflected upon this I felt the urge to know why each game has such a following, and also theorized about how to reach more people. This thing that we all know exists, how is it not massive already? More importantly, is there anything each of these communities (we) can actually do to simplify the process? Here are a couple of theories I have on what might be holding us back. Have you done any research about what kind of audience totals you could expect if everyone who enjoyed watching competitive gaming all came together to watch a specific event? I do not expect to hear this "how is it not massive" without any kind of numbers backing it up. How will it be massive? What's the average viewership of a major WoW, LoL (4x SC2 stated), World of Tanks, Call of Duty (I'm trying my best not to laugh here, symptoms of what you call the tension between communities), some kind of Halo or Counterstrike alternative FPS put together at once? 4.7mil watched an MLG, 2.2mil conccurrent for finals. What numbers could you expect if 50% of the tournament viewership from other games combined for a SC2 stream/live event (there already is some crossover too)? All this is to answer the unspoken question, what's massive for esports and how does that matter? For a while there getting SC2 on TV was like a thread a week. Is that the goal here? What if PPV was the norm, and sponsorship dollars increased? Would a 15% growth in average prize pool and 20% growth in sponsor contributions to teams be considered the massive that Axeltoss is positing is pretty close? Other things needing addressing:
I covered what strikes me odd when people make these threads with the thought of "massive" involved (massive if not for x). I will say people did well on crossover from people that bought SC2 and were curious what Brood War was like. Multiple tournament videos with pimpest plays, wikis explaining the paths of star players, basic mechanics. I mean that Savior writeup was stellar. Do I see SC2 viewership climbing with a fantastical devotion of fans to inclusiveness and reaching out? I mean if everybody unpaid went to a LoL or BlackOps forum and offered a basic video and offer of free coaching under a trial installation all for the love of the game, what is a reasonable expectation. Ten percent bump? Do this for 3 months (eternity in gamerland practically) and get 25%? Okay, well you're pretty far on your way to convincing me that it isn't entirely out of hand for that to happen. There's a limit to good faith efforts attempting to boost the ratings for a show you actually don't like, not because you didn't try it, but because it isn't enjoyable to you. As one former baseball businessman said, he didn't go out with the aim of convincing football players to buy season tickets to his baseball team, he went out and advertised to get people that already liked watching baseball at home to watch it live! (And by the way, I considered some of those MLG crowds to be the top of massive. Not from a commitment to the spirit of camaraderie between communities, just a confluence of good storyline players & teams with 2 well-played games at one event) | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On July 16 2013 06:04 IntoTheheart wrote: I think IdrA's got a bit of a point on the LoL thing though, and I'm scared for the future of eSports in a way. What did Idra specifically say? Source or anything? I'm curious | ||
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lachy89
Australia264 Posts
The reason there is this game bashing is a lot of the 'nerds' that play these games play them to win and therefore have a sense of achievement which they may not be getting in life. Saying 'my' game is harder than yours and I am good at it is a way of trying to make oneself feel better about their own achievements. Everyone wants to feel special and that they have accomplished something... | ||
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Mafe
Germany5966 Posts
-> Move this thread from sc2 to general forum. | ||
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khaydarin9
Australia423 Posts
On July 16 2013 09:04 MaestroSC wrote: Seriously instead of hating on and bashing another game, which is by FAR the most successful esport game in the history of the planet, you should grow up and focus on being positive for your own game and not hateful toward others. Pretty sure that title still goes to Brood War. | ||
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feardragon
United States972 Posts
But as a personal effort, if I have a cupcake and somebody is enjoying a cookie next to me, I can do more than just eat my cupcake. I can offer them a bite of my cupcake. I can ask them where they got the recipe for their cookie and how they made it. I've been getting really gung ho about Street Fighter 4 lately so I'm going to see what I can do to get more communication going between the fighting game scene and the Starcraft scene. And when I start to feel more comfortable, I'll see if I can extend those people in fighting games to the LoL or DotA 2 scenes! Speaking of ideas, I think your cross game coaching idea was a great one. I think maybe if we could somehow organize cross game e-sports intro weeks, that would be great. Something like releasing one or two videos a week on the e-sports community in one game's scene, including interviews/talks with prominent players, explanation the game mechanics, break down of the big tournaments and how to follow it, etc. I might actually try and take this idea and roll with it.... Thank you again Axeltoss. Whenever I see you talk or write about this kind of stuff I can feel your passion coming through in your words and it reinvigorates my own passion toward e-sports. And for that, I could not be more grateful. | ||
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killy666
France204 Posts
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Little-Chimp
Canada948 Posts
We should be trying to figure out how to improve our section of E-Sports, or the game itself. Irrational hate is stupid, trying to beat the competition is not. | ||
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